Mini 1997: The Clownspiracy (Game Over!)

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma is scum. Let me know when she's at L-1 again and I'll do the honors.

YOU HAMMER YOU CLAIM SCUM YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT

Wow. Why are you so mad?

Because no one actually has a lick of sense other than me + a few others

[Wh4t]

Lmfao

This also assumes there is only one real vig.

You guys are actually hilarious.

[Kiana Kaslana]

Lmfao

This also assumes there is only one real vig.

You guys are actually hilarious.

Oh, okay, my bad, I didn't read that part.

Still why did you take so long to come up with this conclusion then? Always putting me at L-1 and L-2. Ready to hammer. Why would you do that?

[Gamma Emerald]

Lol maybe we quicklynch Kokichi.

the omgus is strong with this one

[Wh4t]

Lmfao

This also assumes there is only one real vig.

You guys are actually hilarious.

Oh, okay, my bad, I didn't read that part.

Still why did you take so long to come up with this conclusion then? Always putting me at L-1 and L-2. Ready to hammer. Why would you do that?

In case you couldn't tell by me wanting to end the day early on multiple occasions, I'm an impatient person. When BuJaber pointed out that one way or another your claims will be resolved and letting you two resolve things will draw scum blockers away from investigate PRs I literally thought and posted "ok fine" and was willing to lynch outside the claims.

[Wh4t]

Lol maybe we quicklynch Kokichi.

the omgus is strong with this one

Any other cliche tells you've got to pull out of your ass?

[Kiana Kaslana]

The people who are voting me now are the same as the people voting me before I claimed anyway so its lame confirmation bias.

[Gamma Emerald]

If Kiana flips scum Koki spewing there's a possible mafia doc or RB makes no sense as Koki scum.

Last mention of Kokichi. This looks like a townread to me. The only evident reasoning for the read change is Kokichi agreeing that wh4t should be vigged.
What do people think of a Kiana/wh4t team? I'm coming around to that idea. Still won't be lynching Kiana today.

[Kiana Kaslana]

I am willing to counterwagon anybody now for self-preservation purposes because it is the best play right now, even as town, and I am not a self-hammerer.

[Gamma Emerald]

What did the baseball glove say to the baseball?
(Catch you later!)

One plan has us gambling on finding scum day 1 and hoping I can kill kian night 1

My plan is guaranteed scum lynch day 1 and hoping I can kill scum n1.

Take the guranteed scum every time.

To those who say they don’t know which one of us legit. That’s bullshit. As scum I’d have no reason to cc a vig claim. I probably shouldn’t have as town but whatever.

He claimed under pressure. Just trying to buy time. Y’all just have to trust me here. I’m legit and as pointed out I even crumbed it.

Are you fucking dense? NO ONE ELSE OTHER THAN YOU CAN SAY KIANA IS CONFIRMED SCUM, IT'S JUST FYPOV. STOP WAVING YOUR POV AROUND AS LAW.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi. I am back. I just noticed something very disturbing.

vig hits other vig

What is this?! I almost was thinking in my head if Cedrick was scum since I gave him so many townpoints earlier in the game it was confusing me. But then I realized that the game setup is rolled by making 13 town role PMs then randomizing 3 scum. It's entirely possible that two vigs were in the original setup, and it's more likely than not that two vigs are both town instead of one being scum and one being town. There is no guarantee that the other vig is scum, because of the fact that Mathdino was supposed to make the game unbreakable.

Kokichi's nonsense about mafia doctor or whatever is a very bad argument, he just wants to lynch me. If he thinks I'm scum and he thinks already a mafia doctor on my imaginary team then why wouldn't I claim doctor instead? Why claim something risky like vig when if he said that, there would be a counterclaim and I would get lynched anyway (as is the case happening now), it doesn't make sense from scum perspective for me to claim that. So, I am town.

The problem here is that I think wh4t scumslipped by actually revealing that he knows there are 2 town vigs and is now trying to pretend that he doesn't know that. I think it is because Cedrick puts too much pressure on him knowing that Cedrick will shoot him at night. I also don't like how Wh4t likes to put me at L-2 and L-1 all the time.

VOTE: Wh4t

Unified push!
VOTE: wh4t

[Wh4t]

I am willing to counterwagon anybody now for self-preservation purposes because it is the best play right now, even as town, and I am not a self-hammerer.

Why don't you wagon the person who's counterclaiming you? Do you think he's more likely the real vig?

[Kiana Kaslana]

I am willing to counterwagon anybody now for self-preservation purposes because it is the best play right now, even as town, and I am not a self-hammerer.

Why don't you wagon the person who's counterclaiming you? Do you think he's more likely the real vig?

There is no "the real vig", there is only either one vig (me) or two vigs. I was townreading Cedrick earlier and my reads are usually better than setup spec.

Also, let's be honest here, a Cedrick wagon is suicide for me, I will definitely get lynched instead of him. There's no point to it. If I get lynched first and flip, at least you guys can figure it out tomorrow if Cedrick is scum fakeclaiming to get my lynch secured or if Cedrick is a real vig, it's very easy, we can see tonight one nightkill or two nightkills. Or some investigative can do something. It's really not hard. I don't want to think about it too much, I have to stay alive first.

[StefanB]

Kiana minus the vote.

Hi. I am back. I just noticed something very disturbing.

vig hits other vig

What is this?! I almost was thinking in my head if Cedrick was scum since I gave him so many townpoints earlier in the game it was confusing me. But then I realized that the game setup is rolled by making 13 town role PMs then randomizing 3 scum. It's entirely possible that two vigs were in the original setup, and it's more likely than not that two vigs are both town instead of one being scum and one being town. There is no guarantee that the other vig is scum, because of the fact that Mathdino was supposed to make the game unbreakable.

Kokichi's nonsense about mafia doctor or whatever is a very bad argument, he just wants to lynch me. If he thinks I'm scum and he thinks already a mafia doctor on my imaginary team then why wouldn't I claim doctor instead? Why claim something risky like vig when if he said that, there would be a counterclaim and I would get lynched anyway (as is the case happening now), it doesn't make sense from scum perspective for me to claim that. So, I am town.

The problem here is that I think wh4t scumslipped by actually revealing that he knows there are 2 town vigs and is now trying to pretend that he doesn't know that. I think it is because Cedrick puts too much pressure on him knowing that Cedrick will shoot him at night. I also don't like how Wh4t likes to put me at L-2 and L-1 all the time.

You gave him townpoints for his jokes and the one vote on Archwing, at last that was what you mentioned.
About the 2 vigs: From a setup-perspektive this is a nightmare, lets asume it would be the case. Best case scenario game is over after night 1, or scum wins earlier, not somethink a mod wants.
Mafia hasn't got a vig, this game is reviewed to be normal, vigs are only normal as town. So we are talking about mafia fakeclaiming vig, not that there is a mafiavig.

Kokichi is nonsense but scum having an interference roule that can screw with townpowerroles is posible.

For the claim: Claiming doctor would put you in problems if your partner ever dies.
Claiming vig, you didn't knew that there would be a CC, because if scum you didn't knew that there was a vig.

Congrats on fighting your lynch, if scum or town. Very interesting route.

[StefanB]

BuJaber, Gamma: I am sorry for sumarising your position wrong, thanks for making it clear.
Just looking at the playerlist, we need a Kaito or Beefster agreement on lynching Kiana, or it is not posible.
I am not willing to wait for Kaito to decied that.
If Beefster disagrees with it, I will see that the lynch here is imposible.
I stand by that Gamma is town. (read, when Kiana flips scum very strong read)
I apologise for making the post that Raskolnikov copied. (In my defense I did hide it behind a spoiler)

[Kiana Kaslana]

About the 2 vigs: From a setup-perspektive this is a nightmare, lets asume it would be the case. Best case scenario game is over after night 1, or scum wins earlier, not somethink a mod wants.
Mafia hasn't got a vig, this game is reviewed to be normal, vigs are only normal as town. So we are talking about mafia fakeclaiming vig, not that there is a mafiavig.

Kokichi is nonsense but scum having an interference roule that can screw with townpowerroles is posible.

For the claim: Claiming doctor would put you in problems if your partner ever dies.
Claiming vig, you didn't knew that there would be a CC, because if scum you didn't knew that there was a vig.

That's wrong. Mathdino already said in the starting about the game being unbreakable. If town try to outguess the mod, town will be punished for it. That's absolutely what the mod wants.

Two vigs in the game make very interesting things. Yes, maybe game is over after night 1, if lynch scum day one and both vig shoot correctly night 1. What are the odds? It's like hitting the lottery, do you think any town on this site ever caught 3 scum on day 1? What's interesting if town shoots 1 scum and 1 town, it's evened out, very interesting indeed. Or if now, having vig cc, also it's interesting. Mod likes this kind of interesting things to happen in the games.

There is no mafiavig, there is either two vig or one vig. Unless you want to say both me and Cedrick are scum mafia claiming vig so the other one will be clear. Actually that's such a genius plan that I can use it next time, but for now I know I am town so this cannot be true.

Kokichi say we shouldn't shoot each other at night because scum have interference role. But, the game is setup unbreakable. It's possible, but then I ask you again, why won't if I am scum I will claim a safer role? What's the point.

Why would I be in trouble if my imaginary partner dies. Imaginary partner flips mafia doctor. So town have no doctor? What logic is that. Bad. If I was scum here no way I claim vig.

You are just finding reason to not unvote. It's the same people want me lynch from before I claim and after I claim, all the same people. Bad!

[Raskolnikov]

Jesus christ she's scum just lynch her. Cedrick is 100% vig here for crumbing and no-pressure CC, he did not fakecrumb in advance to fakeCC. and I'm not seriously entertaining the possibility of there being 2 town vigs here, in a confirmed 10:3 game that's potentially swingy AF; if allowed to shoot it, 2 vigs even if they shoot 2 town would become 2 confirmed town, not realistic balance and that's not even considering shots on scum.
More importantly kiana was scummy as fuck and started straight up ignoring me when I asked her to clarify her positions and later cased her, as odd as the vig claim if she seriously thinks she can sell the idea of 2 vigs existing it even makes sense. If I'm wrong (I'm not) I'll take 100% of the responsibility for this wagon, I don't care.

[Kiana Kaslana]

I'm not seriously entertaining the possibility of there being 2 town vigs here, in a confirmed 10:3 game that's potentially swingy AF; if allowed to shoot it, 2 vigs even if they shoot 2 town would become 2 confirmed town, not realistic balance and that's not even considering shots on scum.

I'm not selling it. Wh4t came up with the idea. I had doubts of Cedrick's towniness when he counterclaimed in fact even though he was my strong townread prior to this.

Roles were generated before alignment. What makes you think that a game being "swingy AF" is anything to justify a setup which the mod said it's unbreakable?

[Kiana Kaslana]

Notice how Raskol immediately unvoted me when I claimed (scared of being shot by me) then re-voted once a counterclaim occurred (if Cedrick is town here, Rask is definitely scum here). He hasn't addressed the obvious questions that opposition is asking, which is, why not let us both shoot each other at night.

VOTE: Raskol

[Raskolnikov]

2 vigs is OP as fuck from a setup view because 90% of the time they wouldn't claim d1 and going into d2 you'd have 2 conftowns even if both shot town. Because vigs generally shoot scummy targets they also wouldn't be likely to be protected.

[Kiana Kaslana]

If I'm wrong (I'm not) I'll take 100% of the responsibility for this wagon, I don't care.

But what happens after I flip town? "I'll take 100% of the responsibility for this wagon", what does this even mean.

Cedrick-scum has motivation to CC, obviously. Mislynch me for a free PR lynch day 1, and avoid having his teammate shot tonight and also potentially having the risk of his teammate being lynched Day 1. If I get lynched today it's a guaranteed benefit to hypothetical Cedrick-scum, but if town does the right thing and allows us to self-resolve it, who will get lynched, maybe a teammate, all bets are off.

If you're claiming he has no scum motivation you are either blind or scum wanting my mislynch then going to mislynch him tomorrow.

[Raskolnikov]

Cross shot doesn't work since cedrick claimed because scum having at least 1 shot of roleblock is (if not a roleblocker/x shot rb then on a 1 shot on a JOAT) common, way moreso than the scum BP or scum doctor spec.

[Kiana Kaslana]

2 vigs is OP as fuck from a setup view because 90% of the time they wouldn't claim d1 and going into d2 you'd have 2 conftowns even if both shot town. Because vigs generally shoot scummy targets they also wouldn't be likely to be protected.

Your primitive view of "OP-ness" is irrelevant because the mod already said that the setup is unbreakable. There are not 2 conftowns because they are going to CC each other. And if both shot town that would be negative utility too so town paid the price. You are just trying to get me mislynched here because I caught your team early game.

[Kiana Kaslana]

Cross shot doesn't work since cedrick claimed because scum having at least 1 shot of roleblock is (if not a roleblocker/x shot rb then on a 1 shot on a JOAT) common, way moreso than the scum BP or scum doctor spec.

Well, better the roleblock on a vig then a roleblock on our investigative, right? What's your problem here. Roleblock is always an issue for any PR who claimed. If I wasn't put to L-1 I wouldn't have claimed anyway.

You haven't answered the scum motivation of why I would claim vig to get cc'd instead of doc or cop if I were scum. At least if Doc or Cop CCs me it's more valuable than a vig which people said is negative utility.

[Raskolnikov]

Cedrick-scum has motivation to CC, obviously. Mislynch me for a free PR lynch day 1, and avoid having his teammate shot tonight and also potentially having the risk of his teammate being lynched Day 1. If I get lynched today it's a guaranteed benefit to hypothetical Cedrick-scum, but if town does the right thing and allows us to self-resolve it, who will get lynched, maybe a teammate, all bets are off.

If you're claiming he has no scum motivation you are either blind or scum wanting my mislynch then going to mislynch him tomorrow.

He crumbed vig multiple times, and CC'd without any pressure on him. Are you arguing he'd put those crumbs in advance just in case he'd feel like fakeCCing a vig claim?

Also from MYPOV if you're town you're likely to shoot town anyways in me so scum would and should just let you.