Suddenly the story changes. I guess it's that easy for scum now.In post 973, Raskolnikov wrote:Mostly though the play kind of matches, stop pushing on your hardest scumreads, ignoring them when they talk to you... if you can shoot em dead anyways why not
and the switch focus to REALLY defensive play and trying to talk anyone and almost everyone out of pushing onto you...
Mini 1997: The Clownspiracy (Game Over!)
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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Now Cedrick is 100% vig? Sounds very suspicious, I remember earlier you said I was definitely the vig because the my playstyle fits my role... so that wasn't crumbing either? Or are you just wanting the fastest lynch as you had all game.
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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I don't know, it is a strange claim for scum but the simplest and most likely explanation here. Assuming optimal play from scum isn't always reliable.In post 1273, Kiana Kaslana wrote:You haven't answered the scum motivation of why I would claim vig to get cc'd instead of doc or cop if I were scum. At least if Doc or Cop CCs me it's more valuable than a vig which people said is negative utility.-
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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So? Scum were given their original town role pms that were created before they rolled scum. Your arguments are nonsense, even if I think Cedrick is town and you are the scum here.In post 1274, Raskolnikov wrote:He crumbed vig multiple times, and CC'd without any pressure on him. Are you arguing he'd put those crumbs in advance just in case he'd feel like fakeCCing a vig claim?
Why would he need to fakeCC a vig claim, he can just claim vig later in the game with those crumbs, and if it weren't for me there is no counter claim. Nonsense argument, same person voting me earlier, must be coming from scum.-
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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But I play optimally as scum. So, if there is no good answer for it, that means I am town. And you are scum who ran out of good reasons just wanted to stay your vote on me while looking townie.In post 1276, Raskolnikov wrote:
I don't know, it is a strange claim for scum but the simplest and most likely explanation here. Assuming optimal play from scum isn't always reliable.In post 1273, Kiana Kaslana wrote:You haven't answered the scum motivation of why I would claim vig to get cc'd instead of doc or cop if I were scum. At least if Doc or Cop CCs me it's more valuable than a vig which people said is negative utility.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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When you weren't CC'd the possibility of you fakeclaiming wasn't really worth considering.In post 1275, Kiana Kaslana wrote:Now Cedrick is 100% vig? Sounds very suspicious, I remember earlier you said I was definitely the vig because the my playstyle fits my role... so that wasn't crumbing either? Or are you just wanting the fastest lynch as you had all game.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Yes. Was part of one game where that happened and then scum imploded. Very funny to watch from the deadtopic after I forced scum to kill me. Even if the vig was relucant to shoot because of a special role after night 3 4 of 5 scum were dead. And this was a large.In post 1265, Kiana Kaslana wrote:It's like hitting the lottery, do you think any town on this site ever caught 3 scum on day 1?
Even an unbreakable setup has to be balanced, 2 vigs in a mini modnightmare. I stand by this.
And unvoting a scummy player player who claims a provable role, normal. After a CC, when you believe the CC also normal.
Exept Hiraki and wh4t and Kiana no one seems to even consider 2 vigs.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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What are you getting at in this? Are you implying cedrick could've been scum who got a vig role pm as their town role pm and that's why he'd crumb and CC it?In post 1277, Kiana Kaslana wrote:
So? Scum were given their original town role pms that were created before they rolled scum. Your arguments are nonsense, even if I think Cedrick is town and you are the scum here.In post 1274, Raskolnikov wrote:He crumbed vig multiple times, and CC'd without any pressure on him. Are you arguing he'd put those crumbs in advance just in case he'd feel like fakeCCing a vig claim?-
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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Well, too bad, these days town don't catch all the scum on day 1.In post 1280, StefanB wrote:
Yes. Was part of one game where that happened and then scum imploded. Very funny to watch from the deadtopic after I forced scum to kill me. Even if the vig was relucant to shoot because of a special role after night 3 4 of 5 scum were dead. And this was a large.In post 1265, Kiana Kaslana wrote:It's like hitting the lottery, do you think any town on this site ever caught 3 scum on day 1?
Even an unbreakable setup has to be balanced, 2 vigs in a mini modnightmare. I stand by this.
And unvoting a scummy player player who claims a provable role, normal. After a CC, when you believe the CC also normal.
Exept Hiraki and wh4t and Kiana no one seems to even consider 2 vigs.
You were voting me the whole day and never moved your vote, of course you will not changing your opinion now. I know what is normal, after I flip town you will blame me for being "scummy" even though you are the one who is actually bad. It's normal.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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It's possible.In post 1281, Raskolnikov wrote:
What are you getting at in this? Are you implying cedrick could've been scum who got a vig role pm as their town role pm and that's why he'd crumb and CC it?In post 1277, Kiana Kaslana wrote:
So? Scum were given their original town role pms that were created before they rolled scum. Your arguments are nonsense, even if I think Cedrick is town and you are the scum here.In post 1274, Raskolnikov wrote:He crumbed vig multiple times, and CC'd without any pressure on him. Are you arguing he'd put those crumbs in advance just in case he'd feel like fakeCCing a vig claim?
But, for this reason, it also implies that two town role PMs exist with the vig role. By definition it's not impossible that 2 town got their vig roles rather than 1 town and 1 scum, by pure probability.
Mathdino literally explained how the setup was created here in the rules.-
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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In post 2, Mathdino wrote:The setup was designed to be completely flavour unbreakable with a variant of the System For Flavor Unbreakability:
1. 13 town roles were written.
2. 3 of the roles were randomised to be mafia. Any necessary changes were made to fit their new alignments (for example, no Mafia Innocent Child).
3. Any necessary tweaks were made to balance the two sides.
4. Mafia were given their original town role PMs as safeclaims.
5. The 13 role PMs were randomly distributed to the 13 players.-
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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Maki Harukawa Mafia Scum
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Except my contention is in designing the setup he wouldn't put 2 vig rolecards to begin with, because it'd be awful if both landed town, but one would have to be changed anyways if it does to scum (being another role) so literally the only reason you put 2 is for so 2 town vig can happen, which goes back to the original argument against that.-
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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But this argument is stupid in itself, I already explained why 2 vig can potentially be exciting for a mod who wants to make their game unbreakable and want to punish players for assumptions.In post 1290, Raskolnikov wrote:Except my contention is in designing the setup he wouldn't put 2 vig rolecards to begin with, because it'd be awful if both landed town,
But I guess you just want to find stupid reasons to call me scum and make yourself look townie while doing so. To secure day 1 mislynch.
Actions still speak louder than words here.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Yepp, Mathdino discripted that here, he also stated later:
It was reviewed for balance and 2 vigs is not balanced in a 13-playergame.There are no explicitly non-normal roles or mechanics as listed under the Normal Game wiki page, and this game has been reviewed for balance and non-bastardness by NRG members xRECKONERx and fferyllt. Reasonable greylisted roles/modifiers (such as Loved) are considered within bounds for the design of this game.
Kiana: Yes, I will not tell myself I am bad, if you are lynched. For that I have Maki/Gamma/Hiraki and BuJaber, even before the flipp.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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But then you would have obvscummed and would automatically be lynched the next day or maybe even Cedrick shooting you. I don't think you can risk that. At least this way with half-baked arguments maybe you can live a bit longer.In post 1293, Raskolnikov wrote:Lol if I wanted you lynch you without thought I wouldn't have let you claim.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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No in that case the hammerer would, and cedrick wasn't claimed either so that doesn't make sense.In post 1295, Kiana Kaslana wrote:But then you would have obvscummed and would automatically be lynched the next day or maybe even Cedrick shooting you. I don't think you can risk that. At least this way with half-baked arguments maybe you can live a bit longer.-
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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Why wouldn't it make sense. Cedrick didn't need to claim to activate his ability to shoot your scummy face off.In post 1297, Raskolnikov wrote:
No in that case the hammerer would, and cedrick wasn't claimed either so that doesn't make sense.In post 1295, Kiana Kaslana wrote:But then you would have obvscummed and would automatically be lynched the next day or maybe even Cedrick shooting you. I don't think you can risk that. At least this way with half-baked arguments maybe you can live a bit longer.-
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Kiana Kaslana Mafia Scum
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