Mini 1997: The Clownspiracy (Game Over!)

[Kiana Kaslana]

Now Cedrick is 100% vig? Sounds very suspicious, I remember earlier you said I was definitely the vig because the my playstyle fits my role... so that wasn't crumbing either? Or are you just wanting the fastest lynch as you had all game.

Mostly though the play kind of matches, stop pushing on your hardest scumreads, ignoring them when they talk to you... if you can shoot em dead anyways why not
and the switch focus to REALLY defensive play and trying to talk anyone and almost everyone out of pushing onto you...

Suddenly the story changes. I guess it's that easy for scum now.

[Raskolnikov]

You haven't answered the scum motivation of why I would claim vig to get cc'd instead of doc or cop if I were scum. At least if Doc or Cop CCs me it's more valuable than a vig which people said is negative utility.

I don't know, it is a strange claim for scum but the simplest and most likely explanation here. Assuming optimal play from scum isn't always reliable.

[Kiana Kaslana]

He crumbed vig multiple times, and CC'd without any pressure on him. Are you arguing he'd put those crumbs in advance just in case he'd feel like fakeCCing a vig claim?

So? Scum were given their original town role pms that were created before they rolled scum. Your arguments are nonsense, even if I think Cedrick is town and you are the scum here.

Why would he need to fakeCC a vig claim, he can just claim vig later in the game with those crumbs, and if it weren't for me there is no counter claim. Nonsense argument, same person voting me earlier, must be coming from scum.

[Kiana Kaslana]

You haven't answered the scum motivation of why I would claim vig to get cc'd instead of doc or cop if I were scum. At least if Doc or Cop CCs me it's more valuable than a vig which people said is negative utility.

I don't know, it is a strange claim for scum but the simplest and most likely explanation here. Assuming optimal play from scum isn't always reliable.

But I play optimally as scum. So, if there is no good answer for it, that means I am town. And you are scum who ran out of good reasons just wanted to stay your vote on me while looking townie.

[Raskolnikov]

Now Cedrick is 100% vig? Sounds very suspicious, I remember earlier you said I was definitely the vig because the my playstyle fits my role... so that wasn't crumbing either? Or are you just wanting the fastest lynch as you had all game.

When you weren't CC'd the possibility of you fakeclaiming wasn't really worth considering.

[StefanB]

It's like hitting the lottery, do you think any town on this site ever caught 3 scum on day 1?

Yes. Was part of one game where that happened and then scum imploded. Very funny to watch from the deadtopic after I forced scum to kill me. Even if the vig was relucant to shoot because of a special role after night 3 4 of 5 scum were dead. And this was a large.

Even an unbreakable setup has to be balanced, 2 vigs in a mini modnightmare. I stand by this.

And unvoting a scummy player player who claims a provable role, normal. After a CC, when you believe the CC also normal.

Exept Hiraki and wh4t and Kiana no one seems to even consider 2 vigs.

[Raskolnikov]

He crumbed vig multiple times, and CC'd without any pressure on him. Are you arguing he'd put those crumbs in advance just in case he'd feel like fakeCCing a vig claim?

So? Scum were given their original town role pms that were created before they rolled scum. Your arguments are nonsense, even if I think Cedrick is town and you are the scum here.

What are you getting at in this? Are you implying cedrick could've been scum who got a vig role pm as their town role pm and that's why he'd crumb and CC it?

[Kiana Kaslana]

It's like hitting the lottery, do you think any town on this site ever caught 3 scum on day 1?

Yes. Was part of one game where that happened and then scum imploded. Very funny to watch from the deadtopic after I forced scum to kill me. Even if the vig was relucant to shoot because of a special role after night 3 4 of 5 scum were dead. And this was a large.

Even an unbreakable setup has to be balanced, 2 vigs in a mini modnightmare. I stand by this.

And unvoting a scummy player player who claims a provable role, normal. After a CC, when you believe the CC also normal.

Exept Hiraki and wh4t and Kiana no one seems to even consider 2 vigs.

Well, too bad, these days town don't catch all the scum on day 1.

You were voting me the whole day and never moved your vote, of course you will not changing your opinion now. I know what is normal, after I flip town you will blame me for being "scummy" even though you are the one who is actually bad. It's normal.

[Raskolnikov]

This is AtE as fuck btw.

[Kiana Kaslana]

He crumbed vig multiple times, and CC'd without any pressure on him. Are you arguing he'd put those crumbs in advance just in case he'd feel like fakeCCing a vig claim?

So? Scum were given their original town role pms that were created before they rolled scum. Your arguments are nonsense, even if I think Cedrick is town and you are the scum here.

What are you getting at in this? Are you implying cedrick could've been scum who got a vig role pm as their town role pm and that's why he'd crumb and CC it?

It's possible.

But, for this reason, it also implies that two town role PMs exist with the vig role. By definition it's not impossible that 2 town got their vig roles rather than 1 town and 1 scum, by pure probability.

Mathdino literally explained how the setup was created here in the rules.

[Kiana Kaslana]

The setup was designed to be completely flavour unbreakable with a variant of the System For Flavor Unbreakability:
1. 13 town roles were written.
2. 3 of the roles were randomised to be mafia. Any necessary changes were made to fit their new alignments (for example, no Mafia Innocent Child).
3. Any necessary tweaks were made to balance the two sides.
4. Mafia were given their original town role PMs as safeclaims.
5. The 13 role PMs were randomly distributed to the 13 players.

[Kiana Kaslana]

Roles were written first. Then 3 roles randomised to be mafia. But no Mafia vig. Only Mafia safeclaim vig at maximum. But then, that means if they didn't roll mafia they'd still be vig.

[Maki Harukawa]

day over yet?

[Kiana Kaslana]

No, they're still trying to mislynch me.

[Kiana Kaslana]

Is it an irony that first (and possibly only time) I roll vig on this site I get wagoned and lynched by scum before I can do anything with my role at all?

[Raskolnikov]

Except my contention is in designing the setup he wouldn't put 2 vig rolecards to begin with, because it'd be awful if both landed town, but one would have to be changed anyways if it does to scum (being another role) so literally the only reason you put 2 is for so 2 town vig can happen, which goes back to the original argument against that.

[Kiana Kaslana]

Except my contention is in designing the setup he wouldn't put 2 vig rolecards to begin with, because it'd be awful if both landed town,

But this argument is stupid in itself, I already explained why 2 vig can potentially be exciting for a mod who wants to make their game unbreakable and want to punish players for assumptions.

But I guess you just want to find stupid reasons to call me scum and make yourself look townie while doing so. To secure day 1 mislynch.

Actions still speak louder than words here.

[StefanB]

Yepp, Mathdino discripted that here, he also stated later:

There are no explicitly non-normal roles or mechanics as listed under the Normal Game wiki page, and this game has been reviewed for balance and non-bastardness by NRG members xRECKONERx and fferyllt. Reasonable greylisted roles/modifiers (such as Loved) are considered within bounds for the design of this game.

It was reviewed for balance and 2 vigs is not balanced in a 13-playergame.

Kiana: Yes, I will not tell myself I am bad, if you are lynched. For that I have Maki/Gamma/Hiraki and BuJaber, even before the flipp.

[Raskolnikov]

Lol if I wanted you lynch you without thought I wouldn't have let you claim.

[Kiana Kaslana]

I am going to stop wasting my time talking to bad players who have been voting my slot since page 18. Just only finding excuse to not unvote me.

[Kiana Kaslana]

Lol if I wanted you lynch you without thought I wouldn't have let you claim.

But then you would have obvscummed and would automatically be lynched the next day or maybe even Cedrick shooting you. I don't think you can risk that. At least this way with half-baked arguments maybe you can live a bit longer.

[StefanB]

Maki: Any comment on the 2 vigdiscusion? You agreed yesterday, we don't have 2 townvigs.
Any comment on Kiana? You played with her before.

[Raskolnikov]

But then you would have obvscummed and would automatically be lynched the next day or maybe even Cedrick shooting you. I don't think you can risk that. At least this way with half-baked arguments maybe you can live a bit longer.

No in that case the hammerer would, and cedrick wasn't claimed either so that doesn't make sense.

[Kiana Kaslana]

But then you would have obvscummed and would automatically be lynched the next day or maybe even Cedrick shooting you. I don't think you can risk that. At least this way with half-baked arguments maybe you can live a bit longer.

No in that case the hammerer would, and cedrick wasn't claimed either so that doesn't make sense.

Why wouldn't it make sense. Cedrick didn't need to claim to activate his ability to shoot your scummy face off.

[Kiana Kaslana]

And it would become really obvious after my flip.