Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Ramcius]

Also can anyone confirm that's something Ram does on every game?

I'm slowly turning ok with a ram wagon considering he was a

lot

more cocky and less team playerish/excuses like he's trying now I was biting my tongue cause I was just waiting for him to do something but hey.
I'm coming around to Ram and that vote on Nero was bad so I might take back my nero sr

Voting lurkers is never bad idea, that's brings fact that you aren't very active either

Also, i won't self meta, but why you think i could win power struggle against RC and not get lynched for standing in his way?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Huh?
You're just voting Nero for lurking?
Well tbf i've known Nero for being more active usually, but why arent you voting the people that can actually respond to pressure? Nero's last post on-site was his last post here.

[Ouroboros]

At no point in this game have I said anything about your activity levels, though I do suppose you may be intentionally scum lurking. I mean you're lurking, that's not why you're scum.

Ouroboros' attempt to create pressure with very minimal reasoning is not really giving me much to work with, although I can't say I'm surprised that you want to pull apart a new player's behaviour. It unnerves me because you say you are keeping cards close to your chest whilst simultaneously defending a player that has given us no reason to believe they are town at all, Tchill.

You're correct I'm not giving you much to work with, but I assure you that's nothing to do with you. I have several strong reads for who your buddies are and want to see what they do before it becomes 100% clear that you're going to be the lynch today. As a result I am holding off on several of the stronger points that I want to make.

You're also playing the newb card and implying that I'm pushing you because you're new, which is blatantly untrue.

'defending a player who has given us no reason to believe they are town at all' is how scum describe their scumreads, not town.

My only other scum reads so far were on Ramacius & MWNN, as both were very fickle and kept changing their votes without offering any good reason for doing so. This to me suggests an uneasyness when under pressure in the former case and a desire to please the supposedly protown mascot, Ouroboros in the latter.

Interestingly, MWNN was willing to vote most of the people that I voted but he waffled then made an excuse for not voting you: what do you think that shows?

also don't see how different my activity is from players that also havent had time to add much substance yet, like Hebichan & REALMEN. I will add my reads to the discussion as and when I sense them, until that point any probing on my part will look forced.

It will 'look' forced or it will 'be' forced? You're again making this an activity issue when it clearly isn't.

@Ouroboros, you were suspicious of my thought process on Tchill (by suggesting he could be jester, i.e. misconstued to suggest we shouldn't vote for him ) yet you're not scumreading Tchill, a bit of an alignment disconnect don't you think?

Not in the slightest: 'this person is acting weird and scummy -> I think they are jester' is an extremely scummy thought process.
Typical newbplay is to assume anything weird or different is weird or different because it's scum, but you seem to already know that he's not weird or scummy because scum: why?
You are also trying to convince ME that I am scum and that is extremely scummy too: look at the phrasing of this.

If the thing that bothers you about me is other player activity, then why don't you address them? You say it's too soon to reveal your other suspects whilst also accusing MWNN in your next point.

I don't think it's unjustified to say you're pushing me because you're not familiar with me, by being alarmist your trying to see how I react to pressure.

You've stated that you're definitely going to be N1 kill, like you're trying to double bluff and insure yourself should you remain alive on day 2. This doesn't strike me as transparent behaviour - all these 'cards against your chest' remarks are not indictive of a good townie, regardless of your alignment and it's much easier for people to get on board with you as trustworthy when you aren't claiming to hide so much in the next breath.

You've pulled me up on my lack of definites, I can understand this at least. To this I can only say I don't like to accuse outright unless I have a strong lead, just because I have less conviction in my analysis it doesn't invalidate it. I'm also not trying to convince anyone that your scum, just that you've honed in on me and can't see anything but what you want to at this stage.

I will try and post some more tomorrow but I have a job interview to prepare for so don't count on it. Thursday evening I should be around more and will try to contribute to discussion actively rather than spending the whole time defending myself.

1) This is a scum defense in general and I say that on a comprehensive view.
2) What do you mean double bluff and insure myself? I am going to be dead N1. That's just facts. No reason Kaede needed to IC herself but when she did that I was guaranteed dead.
3) I called you out very little on your lack of definites. I could call you up for literally never scumhunting for sure but that's barely even a part of my post.



Also just in general: has anyone noticed that so, so many people have expressed scumreads on Ventriloquist then failed to follow up on them with a vote?

[Ouroboros]

Oh and MWNN is just one of many people that I'm concerned about, why shouldn't I test his reaction?

[Ramcius]

Huh?
You're just voting Nero for lurking?
Well tbf i've known Nero for being more active usually, but why arent you voting the people that can actually respond to pressure? Nero's last post on-site was his last post here.

Because i have strict anti-lurking policy, also, i have played quite a few games with him and saw him as both alignments, so i want get it out of the way and move on other people, while i have no or just very little past experience with most of other people (Maria and RC would be exception, but i haven't played with sum them tho), also, seems verylazy played with me too, but i have no clue who's alt it is, so i can't use past experience

[Kaede Akamatsu]

So you say you've seen him as both alignments, have you found him lurking as scum?
Are you even sure he's lurking and not busy IRL?

[hebichan]

No I'm pretty sure everyone agreed it was the way they claimed not the claim itself. Can I persuade you to help me run up Ramcius?

I spectated that Bastard game GIF modded, it seems to me that Ramcius is the type of player that plays in a way that rubs ppl the wrong way and ends up getting himself lynched, ill give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

It felt like you were using meta to not take a hard stance on the popular wagon of the time. That's what I meant by excusey.

[Ouroboros]

@ManWithNoName

- Are you scum reading Jungle for his lack of AI posts?

Ghost

[Kaede Akamatsu]

It felt like you were using meta to not take a hard stance on the popular wagon of the time. That's what I meant by excusey.

Oh, i just have a soft spot for ppl that look like lynchbait or misunderstood.
It's kinda the same thing that happened in DRV3 when everyone was wagoning Kokichi and i stepped out of my way to defend him, but that game i was taking a more active role.

[Nero Cain]

ewww @ the Nero is lurking argument. Though I can't tell if its normal Ram idiotcy or opportunistic scum hopping on a growing bandwagon.

however,

without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
Scum nero thinking that and using it as an agenda to push something makes a lot more sense though imo

This is 100% scum projecting their feelings.

although there is

I haven't commented on Ram on purpose. I rather not speak on Ram atm if a wagon keeps going I'll comment but for now I rather shut up about him due to my own reasons.

So a Maria Ram team seems like a somewhat possible thing idk.

This also makes me want to consider Wraith a possible Maria buddy.

I tentatively think Maria vs Nero is TvT. More confident in a townread on Maria.

hey 2016 join date, read the wiki and tell me why I think hiders are weak.

hey 2009 join date, stop sucking at MAFIA

bullying darling claire how dare you!

This can also die when Claire flips scum.

[Ramcius]

So you say you've seen him as both alignments, have you found him lurking as scum?
Are you even sure he's lurking and not busy IRL?

I'm not saying he's scum, cause lurking, i'm saying i need him to speak to determine which alignment he is. My vote wasn't "hey, Nero is scum", but "Nero, where are you?"

[Nero Cain]

Presumably, I was in bed last night. I'm not always on a bad sleeping schedule.

[davesaz]

I’ve been sick and haven’t been able to put much time in. On bottom of 13.

[Wraith]

Keep in mind that if we assume there have been no fakeclaims and that there are 5 scum in this game, then there is only a pool of 10 players that have strong positive PRs.

why assume no fakeclaims and 5 scums?

Speculating 5 scum (or more accurately, 5 anti-town) based on the size of the game. But as Dunn pointed out, I might be overestimating, I haven't played in a while so I'm rusty with the typical ratio of scum:town.

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

hey 2016 join date, read the wiki and tell me why I think hiders are weak.

hey 2009 join date, stop sucking at MAFIA

bullying darling claire how dare you!

This can also die when Claire flips scum.

you may have a good case buddy, but, here's the problem: i called dibs on it first

MariaR is probably scum like, totally scum scum

GOAT READS courtesy of ME

so you can go suck a big one Nero Cain

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

@ManWithNoName

- Are you scum reading Jungle for his lack of AI posts?

Ghost

god knows, but is it really a coincidence that

Man

with no name is voting someone like

REAL MEN ONLY JUNGLE

?

it looks to me that he is voting me because he doesn't feel like a REAL MAN

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

Also, ETL, just as a quick note because this is directly relevant to me: how do you generally get your reads? I remember you being a fairly strong player but I want to get an idea as to why our general thoughts have been polar opposites this game.

I still lean townish on the overall analysis, but I want to get this sorted out sooner rather than later since it would do a lot to prevent me from gaining paranoia on your slot later in the game.

Hi, Ankamius, you're today's winner of REAL MEN'S GOAT ADVICE!!!!! Congratulations!!!!!

Q: Why are ETL's reads the polar opposites of yours this game?

A: Choose 1 of the following: A) Your reads suck. B) ETL is scum. C) All of the above.

Having problems with ETL's reads? Here's a simple solution: Sheep REAL MEN, satisfaction guaranteed

Brought to you by MAN reads

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

VOTE: Impossibear

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

Please don't skip reading these - I have a lot of discussion I missed and would like to engage with people about several posts, plus I put a lot of time and work into reading this game in-depth rather than skimming so...

I actually skipped reading those, until I actually went to read those, and REAL MEN says that ETL is scum!

[Ramcius]

So, oldtimers, who can confirm that in past it was norm 5 scum in 18p closed games?

[ManWithNoName]

@ManWithNoName

- Are you scum reading Jungle for his lack of AI posts?

Ghost

I do believe that is the best way to phrase it. He reads in a way that he's not trying to game solve, he's just trying to not give away any information. That's enough to earn a scum read from me.

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

@ManWithNoName

- Are you scum reading Jungle for his lack of AI posts?

Ghost

I do believe that is the best way to phrase it. He reads in a way that he's not trying to game solve, he's just trying to not give away any information. That's enough to earn a scum read from me.

that's usually be a strong case, buddy, but heres the problem: jesters and comedians are exempt from this

have you ever heard of the saying "If you lynch the jester, you lose"?



wanna be a REAL MAN instead of a nameless man with a huge wagon? sheep me and vote impossibear!

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

also that logic is good for beginners but with this site meta these days you'd be calling half of every playerlist in every game scum

you'd also fail to catch any scum above Alchemist21 tier, like our friend impossibigbear here

[Ventriloquist]

My only other scum reads so far were on Ramacius & MWNN, as both were very fickle and kept changing their votes without offering any good reason for doing so. This to me suggests an uneasyness when under pressure in the former case and a desire to please the supposedly protown mascot, Ouroboros in the latter.

Huh? What vote changing you talk about? Open my ISO and tell me what vote changing i've done? I voted Maria in RvS, i voted Wilky, then selfvoted as a joke, that's about it. I just feel like you try get easy lynch and don't like my wagon dissolving

You changed your vote to wilky because Ouroboros called you out for it, you then changed your vote to yourself. It's convenient that it's suddenly a joke that you self voted now, even though others picked up on how awkward it was.

[Ventriloquist]

At no point in this game have I said anything about your activity levels, though I do suppose you may be intentionally scum lurking. I mean you're lurking, that's not why you're scum.

Ouroboros' attempt to create pressure with very minimal reasoning is not really giving me much to work with, although I can't say I'm surprised that you want to pull apart a new player's behaviour. It unnerves me because you say you are keeping cards close to your chest whilst simultaneously defending a player that has given us no reason to believe they are town at all, Tchill.

You're correct I'm not giving you much to work with, but I assure you that's nothing to do with you. I have several strong reads for who your buddies are and want to see what they do before it becomes 100% clear that you're going to be the lynch today. As a result I am holding off on several of the stronger points that I want to make.

You're also playing the newb card and implying that I'm pushing you because you're new, which is blatantly untrue.

'defending a player who has given us no reason to believe they are town at all' is how scum describe their scumreads, not town.

My only other scum reads so far were on Ramacius & MWNN, as both were very fickle and kept changing their votes without offering any good reason for doing so. This to me suggests an uneasyness when under pressure in the former case and a desire to please the supposedly protown mascot, Ouroboros in the latter.

Interestingly, MWNN was willing to vote most of the people that I voted but he waffled then made an excuse for not voting you: what do you think that shows?

also don't see how different my activity is from players that also havent had time to add much substance yet, like Hebichan & REALMEN. I will add my reads to the discussion as and when I sense them, until that point any probing on my part will look forced.

It will 'look' forced or it will 'be' forced? You're again making this an activity issue when it clearly isn't.

@Ouroboros, you were suspicious of my thought process on Tchill (by suggesting he could be jester, i.e. misconstued to suggest we shouldn't vote for him ) yet you're not scumreading Tchill, a bit of an alignment disconnect don't you think?

Not in the slightest: 'this person is acting weird and scummy -> I think they are jester' is an extremely scummy thought process.
Typical newbplay is to assume anything weird or different is weird or different because it's scum, but you seem to already know that he's not weird or scummy because scum: why?
You are also trying to convince ME that I am scum and that is extremely scummy too: look at the phrasing of this.

If the thing that bothers you about me is other player activity, then why don't you address them? You say it's too soon to reveal your other suspects whilst also accusing MWNN in your next point.

I don't think it's unjustified to say you're pushing me because you're not familiar with me, by being alarmist your trying to see how I react to pressure.

You've stated that you're definitely going to be N1 kill, like you're trying to double bluff and insure yourself should you remain alive on day 2. This doesn't strike me as transparent behaviour - all these 'cards against your chest' remarks are not indictive of a good townie, regardless of your alignment and it's much easier for people to get on board with you as trustworthy when you aren't claiming to hide so much in the next breath.

You've pulled me up on my lack of definites, I can understand this at least. To this I can only say I don't like to accuse outright unless I have a strong lead, just because I have less conviction in my analysis it doesn't invalidate it. I'm also not trying to convince anyone that your scum, just that you've honed in on me and can't see anything but what you want to at this stage.

I will try and post some more tomorrow but I have a job interview to prepare for so don't count on it. Thursday evening I should be around more and will try to contribute to discussion actively rather than spending the whole time defending myself.

1) This is a scum defense in general and I say that on a comprehensive view.
2) What do you mean double bluff and insure myself? I am going to be dead N1. That's just facts. No reason Kaede needed to IC herself but when she did that I was guaranteed dead.
3) I called you out very little on your lack of definites. I could call you up for literally never scumhunting for sure but that's barely even a part of my post.



Also just in general: has anyone noticed that so, so many people have expressed scumreads on Ventriloquist then failed to follow up on them with a vote?

Ok forgive me if I'm being dense but how does the Kaede reveal guarantee your dead?

By calling me up on lack of definites im referring to the way I word things. I'd rather make an observation and suggest possibilities rather than say someone is guaranteed scum, I don't think being alarmist helps.

Very few people had scum reads on me until you started to put me on a pedestal. Most of the scumreads you mention are a result of me not knowing how to react to your posts because, according to your own assessment it is the people around me that are giving me away rather than myself. And I don't even know who is people are.