Micro 801: 2 Mafia, 1 Vigilante, 6 Townies (Game Over)

[GuiltyLion]

hey RC what level of history do you have with the worst? do you think he'd be afraid of town!you or does he have enough confidence to open like he did as scum?

I don't like the empty shade of 41
VOTE: CheekyTeeky
but just a gut ping

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: GL OMGUS vote.

Nice to see you GL. I don't think we've played a game since team mafia.

thanks, good to see you too! Hopefully we're on the same team this time

@GL I rolled scum twice against RC in newbie games, can grab links if you want.

nah, I'll find those myself if I decide it'd be useful later, good to know though

[GuiltyLion]

I don't really feel strongly about anything yet. I've liked RC's posts. I'm slightly more comfortable townreading NSG than Cheeky here because I don't know if scum!NSG would suggest she's townreading me off of one post, but I don't feel either has done anything particularly AI overall

I want to put more thoughts in the thread cause short deadlines, it's my lunchbreak and I'll be busy tonight but that's about all I have so far

[GuiltyLion]

also I think voting on who to vig isn't necessarily a bad idea, it might generate some useful associatives (especially bc people may have different opinions based on town or scumflip) and it's not like vig has to follow thread consensus if they don't want to

I don't feel like we absolutely should do it but I'm curious why NSG thinks it's a bad idea - only danger I can think of is people have to be careful not to VT slip

[GuiltyLion]

yeh, good points

[GuiltyLion]

His comment in 73 has me on edge, and then the soft recommendation to vote on vig kills feels like he's trying to fish.

You should elaborate on both of these.

Which comment and why does it put you "on edge"?

and how am I trying to fish? I wanted to hear reasons against the idea, NSG's specifically, and then as soon as a few were presented, felt they were good points. None of it is in any way tied to roles of specific players.

[GuiltyLion]

also I disagree with calling it an "empty vote" when it was made immediately after ceejay's posts

like it's unexplained sure but it's not really "empty". you can read into it if you want, or you could have asked him about it.

[GuiltyLion]

also Cheeky can you explain why I "seem good" cause I feel like in Team Mafia you were way more paranoid about me, going so far as warning other people I was good at scum

[GuiltyLion]

I think NSG, TW, RC are all town. I don't really personally have a strong reason to townread Hiraki but I'm willing to sheep RC's townread there.

The thing that stands out to me right now is Fumuki's repeated defense/townread of shaddow

of TW/shaddowez I would say that shaddow is "scummier" with all that talk,

however his posts seem too straight forward on casting shade to actually come from scum imo. I think scum would sound more reasonable here.

What is beginning to confuse me about TW is what I pointed out, I'm a little paranoid of TW, and btw, I'm even more confused by you.

I would say that you're stepping too much on the spotlight to try game solve but seems like you're a far skilled as scum...

3. Exactly...but...I'm more null reading him, that if not putting him as town lean. I can't believe scum!Shadow can't make a better entrance if his objective is to not get lynched...

@fumuki this is it--your attitude towards me so far feels slightly more like trying to achieve a net scumread on me than organically read me
it's honest feedback assuming you're new to MS / not an alt ;n; sorry if it came across wrong

N-no, the feedback is okay however I'm really only trying to sort some of you actions because I hoped to get a good read on you... (I'm not an alt btw .-.)

I'm starting to think this

TW/Shadow think is a lynch bait progressing too fast but...dunno...

RC attitude seems a town confident in his reads however I don't know what to make of him. He just progress things too quickly and in separated posts, I'm not used to it...

I'm also at the very least considering Fumuki as a Shaddowez partner given the way they're talking about me moving too fast and that lynchbaits comment without any substance to back it up

I'm thinking this TW/Shadow thing is a lynchbait (not necessarily scum-driven) because we've already had GL/Shadow, TW/GL and now we're coming to TW/Shadow and you sounds confident based on mainly one or two posts of Shadow.

Shadow entrance is bad, and it's because of that I'm saying he may be lynchbait. Would he really come off that scummy when he could just do like Invisi and commenting on something like the vig thing?

I've a hard time believing that scum is this easy to catch.

No, I don't think putting shaddow out of possibility is any good, don't let me confuse you RC-san.

I'm town leaning him for how bad his entrance is (and I think scum would be more self-aware) however I want to see much more from him and from some players before deciding

. I'm shooting my deadline extension btw...I think it's important at least in d1...

extend deadline.

I doubt this is scum trying to half-assedly save a partner, though I also don't want to rule that out. But I'm kinda thinking this might be scum WKing a D1 mislynch.

I'm not against roping up shaddow today but I'd like Fumuki to explain more about why shaddowez is town. With regards to the last post, town should also be at least self-aware enough to not make bad entrances. Shaddow made a number of awkward posts and I don't see enough of a town incentive for making those posts for me to want to rule out the possibility that he's just scum playing poorly.

[GuiltyLion]

i think that fumuki was probs trying to be pro-town with the extension.

also Invisibility - can't both scum!Fumuki or town!Fumuki think that it would be pro-town to use an extension? If I'm scum and I see something I can do that looks pro-town and doesn't significantly hamper my agenda, I generally try to do it for the towncred and because I think town-me would do it

[GuiltyLion]

we should give shaddowez time to come back to the thread, deadline is Thursday there's no rush

[GuiltyLion]

I mean it's literally like two days into D1. If you're right then we have plenty of flips and time to confirm that. If I'm scum with shaddowez I'm likely already screwed at this point anyway with everyone else able to obvtown.

I think it's more productive to pressure Fumuki here especially in the universe where shaddowez is town

[GuiltyLion]

I think NSG, TW, RC are all town. I don't really personally have a strong reason to townread Hiraki but I'm willing to sheep RC's townread there.

The thing that stands out to me right now is Fumuki's repeated defense/townread of shaddow

I'll be honest here. Having see me play once already I was expecting you to remember how I tend to at least try to defend who I think that's simply lynchbait. You did this same thing you're doing now as scum in Newbie 1860. I don't know your meta enough to say that is definitely alignment indicative but I'm not liking it GL, and although I had voted you just for some pressure, that vote is serious right now.

actually this post feels really genuine

and I was thinking Fumuki could be scum with Invisibility but the latest votes make me feel that's less likely
UNVOTE:

(as an aside, I have gotten flack for defending lynchbait players in the past, and I think I've learned that the best way to do it is to push on the people who are scumreading/voting the player you think might be lynchbait - not to defend the lynchbait and hold them up as town. I don't think anyone should have a good reason to townread shaddowez at this stage of the game and so I'm gonna be suspicious of the motives/agenda of anyone who claims he's town. However, pressuring players who think shaddowez is scum to explain why they are certain he

isn't

town is a slightly different thing to do and one that's way more justifiable/good for the game state).

[GuiltyLion]

nobody is scum with GL

[GuiltyLion]

no, I stop pushing Fumuki when they make a fairly townie response to me

like if my goal was to bus I wouldn't back down as soon as it starts to look likely

earlier you said I was scummy because I FOS'd shaddowez (possible buddy) while voting Fumuki (possible townie), now you say I'm scummy because I unvote Fumuki (possible buddy). You're writing narratives to support your conclusion instead of taking in all the evidence

[GuiltyLion]

when have I ever taken a game off you lmao

VOTE: shaddowez

[GuiltyLion]

actually I probably want to lynch Invisibility more than shaddowez but I'm too lazy to count the votes at the moment

Invisibility wasn't "certain enough" to scumread shaddowez but felt good enough about Fumuki to put them at L-1

[GuiltyLion]

oh yeah I forgot about that one

[GuiltyLion]

Oh look now they're trying to coagulate onto a wagon and end the day fast to fucking silence me classy

I intentionally voted shaddowez because I knew he wasn't close to lynch yet with your unvote

like I definitely do not want the day to end

you can keep talking all you want

[GuiltyLion]

hmm they're both good wagons actually

VOTE: Invisibility
I want my vote here because I want shaddowez to respond to this Invisibility wagon

[GuiltyLion]

jfc I literally had an unvote in the box

[GuiltyLion]

my birthday is Tuesday

[GuiltyLion]

i'm really hoping it's just Invis/shaddowez

[GuiltyLion]

yeah, I had this weird gut feeling that RC would hammer so I was literally submitting an unvote when I saw the preview

[GuiltyLion]

honestly I still feel pretty good about this lynch overall, I feel most of the people on the wagon have been the more active ones clearly trying to game-solve

like if the "opportunistic scum" L-2 and L-1 votes are me and one of my stronger townreads, feeling better about Fumuki town and def think this is town!NSG

so either scum!RC hammered (possible but I still think he's town) or I'm not really seeing where scum decided on this lynch

[GuiltyLion]

Happy birthday GL!

thanks NSG

Fumuki what makes you say that I was "dead sure" in Shaddow being scum?

[GuiltyLion]

also I don't really disagree with RC's reasoning in 582 here but I'm mostly just wondering if there's anything else to do today that might be useful in case Fumuki flips town. leaning towards probably not

[GuiltyLion]

I mean I definitely wasn't townreading him but "dead sure" is a pretty strong way to describe my position on him

VOTE: Fumuki
also thanks happy to be spending a part of my bday playing mafia with all you mafia nerds

[GuiltyLion]

RC if I'm scum why do I kill Hiraki instead of you?

[GuiltyLion]

Fumuki it's definitely not nonsense but interesting that you jump in to take that angle. I can explain why better after the game bc this is starting to get into vig spec

[GuiltyLion]

I definitely don't think TW is scum, would almost bet the game that slot is town

[GuiltyLion]

Ok then let's 1v1

was this directed at me? but I don't think you're scum

I'd say it's like 60% Fumuki, 25% ceej (shaddowez question towards him could maybe be distancing in town!Cheeky/Fumuki world and this is like POE more than anything else), 15% someone else.

[GuiltyLion]

Hiraki was never ever ever getting lynched imo. Kill more likely to come from scum who are under heat and basically just need to spin a couple of mislynches over themselves

Thoughts?

generally agree with this, but I think my question earlier wasn't phrased that well - I'm less interested in why Hiraki specifically was killed and more interested in making the point that scum!me would have killed town!RC for a number of different reasons.

for all we know shaddowez may have just suggested killing Hiraki simply bc Hiraki was so tunneled on him

[GuiltyLion]

He said that neither I or GL could be Shaddow associatives, but now that Shaddow flipped scum he's pushing that theory.

I mean he only said that once, for a lot of D1 he was waffling between either of us being partners with shaddowez and his play today is fairly consistent with that same D1 view of the gamestate

why is scum!RC pseudobussing his partner, then trying to mislynch you and myself, then pivoting to NSG as of this most recent page - more likely than just town!RC cycling through paranoia/suspects and genuinely trying to sort the game?

also yah TW, that's part of why I said you're almost locktown.

[GuiltyLion]

I recognize that I am a potential partner here in the neutral view of the game, don't disagree with that, but I think we should lynch Fumuki first bc I'm town

[GuiltyLion]

honestly I see Cheeky's D1 is overall scummier than Fumuki's D1, if Fumuki is scum they were playing this game fairly well outside of the really awkward shaddow defense. Fumuki's D2 hasn't been so good and more townpoints for NSG for identifying that too.

most of all I really doubt town!Cheeky just gives me a nonchalant "GL seems good so far" townread. We've been scum together before and when she was town in Team Mafia she was real worried about me as a result.

[GuiltyLion]

and further she justified that with me missing a sense of "awkward" but I don't think I was particularly not-awkward in this game

[GuiltyLion]

Well...jokes aside If I go wild I could see NSG trying to be minimalistic to coast along to endgame...

But I think that's not the case...definitely lynch and vig inside Invisibility wagon.

plus this is one of those things that I usually want to call a scumslip but everyone always scumreads me/gets mad for calling them scumslips - even though they turn out to be right more than 50% of the time

claiming that NSG could be scum but then saying "but probably not, we need to lynch and vig inside the Invisibility wagon" in a way that implies some kind of reversal shows that Fumuki isn't really fully cognizant of the fact that NSG was on the Invisibility wagon. if town!Fumuki was genuinely looking in the Invisibility wagon for scum, NSG would definitely be in that pool. more fitting explanation is that scum!Fumuki doesn't really care who was on Invisibility

[GuiltyLion]

hey great game everyone! I had a ton of fun playing this one. Great playerlist and a solid win.

Good shot NSG. I picked up on how much RC was trying to seem like he wasn't the vig but I kinda just assumed he was the vig or at the very least he had town intentions for doing it so much. Don't think scum!RC would softclaim vig by turbo hammering on D1 like that - which is also why I said the worst was locktown because his "that hammer has no pro-town equity" post or whatever told me that scum!TW probably would have assumed RC was more likely to be the vig too.

also no worries about the scumreads on me, my associatives with shaddowez were objectively bad and I seem to have lost the ability to towntell as of late.

thanks for modding cfj, love the shorter deadlines + extensions set-up. I think it promotes more dynamic gameplay like the worst has said.

also Fumuki I felt for ya when you were talking about being suspected for defending players, that was a good "genuine but not alignment indicative" topic to riff on and you projected the emotion in it well IMO. but I was serious when I said you should just push more on the reasoning of the scumreads instead of trying to argue for the townread, it's subtle but I think it is a difference and it's useful as both alignments. If you had made most of the same points but toned it down slightly on the "shaddowez is town" aspect of it, I don't think I would have been as suspicious

[GuiltyLion]

yah I like your style the worst, would definitely like to play with ya again sometime

[GuiltyLion]

haha yah it was also a bit tough for me to defend myself because I wasn't the vig so I was ultimately okay to get lynched if Fumuki ate the shot but I also didn't want to openly claim VT by being okay with my lynch