Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Ramcius]

OK, great. Considering there is as much a chance as anything that there is a 3 man scum team with a 3rd party and if there's a 3 man scum team then Ram thinks that none of the claims are scum then why is such a huge chunk of his iso focusing on 1 of the claims being scum? Below is quotes from Ram's iso that insinuate scum in one of the claims. I still get the feeling from Ram's post that he's more in the know than most of the rest of us.

I don't believe there's 3 man scumteam with sk, 3 man scum team with non sk 3p is out of question, i believe it's 4 man mafia and maybe some non sk 3p, or town just got weaker/less PRs

[wilky]

So why is there no chance of scum in the claims in a 3 man scum team but half your iso is about scum in at least 1 claim in a 4 man scum team? Why such a difference with 1 player difference

[Ramcius]

So why is there no chance of scum in the claims in a 3 man scum team but half your iso is about scum in at least 1 claim in a 4 man scum team? Why such a difference with 1 player difference

because losing a member from group of 3 hurts much more than losing a member from group of 4

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies

[Alchemist21]

A storm knocked out the power at my house and I’m phone posting with

33%

28% (old phone’s charge is dropping loke a rock) remaining right now. I’ll try to read through these past pages but I don’t know if I’ll be able to post after this.

I’m probably going to be V/LA over the weekend as well.

Just a heads up here.

[davesaz]

I backed off on Ventriloquist because I regretted actually showing that scumread because I wanted to see how he'd develop without me doing anything.

I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.

Easy to say after the fact.

I'd like more from you, please.

ETL

Dave's brain has been turned to mush by a combination of a few days of being sick plus trying to figure out difficult software problems.
I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Things are improving, and will be fine as long as the light at the end of the tunnel isn't another train.

[Alchemist21]

At first, I thought the argument Maria was making against Nero was kind of lame and suggested to me an ulterior agenda. Nero's reaction matched what I was thinking. I hadn't liked many of Maria's posts to begin with and Nero's posts came across to me like aggravated town.

After speaking with Jingle about that particular interaction, I agree with him that both sides are rather NAI. Jingle says that kind of logic is par for the course for Maria, and after thinking about it some more, I could see Nero having that reaction as either alignment. The aggressive tone of the reaction specifically could definitely come from scum, but I had been leaning more towards town on that as I originally felt.

In short, they're both actually pretty null as I can't decide if it's alignment-indicative at all now.

Tone-wise I'm Townreading Maria. The sheep onto Nero while ignoring Ram seemed sketchy, but since I was Townreading her before that I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt when she says she was waiting for something. Also the original position is something that could come from either Town or scum so it didn't change my read.

For Nero, it looks like he was the one putting words in Maria's mouth while accusing her of doing the same. It was possible he just misunderstood her posts, but when he attacked her join date it felt like a cheap shot to me and to say it was deflection when Maria called him on it was some bull. It felt like Nero just wanted to attack and push Maria rather than engage her in good faith.

I mean, there was maybe a little misunderstanding on my part.

without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.

like this is not something I'm thinking or have expressed an opinion on it. I know 2 town roles, maybe 4 since I'm coming around to the idea of using two millers. Its not enough for me to know whether or not the town is weak or strong and I can't tell you about the nature of the scumteam.
How is that NOT putting words into my mouth?

I had felt like her quoting my 222 was a misrep of the usage of the word weak there and her trying to claim that I'm calling hiders weak and thus the town weak.

She's basicly sheeping Dunn here but adding on some strongly worded hot air. If she thinks I'm scummy that I felt it was a very strong possibility that one of Dave or Tchill was scum that got CCed/fakeclaimed then fine but she's trying hard to make it seem like she's not sheeping Dunn. I don't really understand why she thinks I think

without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.

and why it makes sense to you. Explain it to me like I'm 3.

So what I got from Maria was that you think it’s fishy that there are so many neg utility roles and focusing on that and aren’t considering the chance that we do have those neg utility roles and Town has powerful roles to compensate. Also I’m pretty sure she was talking about weak roles as in they are underpowered or neg utility not as in the modifier Weak, which is probably a source of legit misunderstanding.

[MariaR]

Maria go read dunnstral pls love u

HUH-le sigh ok

[MariaR]

At first, I thought the argument Maria was making against Nero was kind of lame and suggested to me an ulterior agenda. Nero's reaction matched what I was thinking. I hadn't liked many of Maria's posts to begin with and Nero's posts came across to me like aggravated town.

After speaking with Jingle about that particular interaction, I agree with him that both sides are rather NAI. Jingle says that kind of logic is par for the course for Maria, and after thinking about it some more, I could see Nero having that reaction as either alignment. The aggressive tone of the reaction specifically could definitely come from scum, but I had been leaning more towards town on that as I originally felt.

In short, they're both actually pretty null as I can't decide if it's alignment-indicative at all now.

Tone-wise I'm Townreading Maria. The sheep onto Nero while ignoring Ram seemed sketchy, but since I was Townreading her before that I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt when she says she was waiting for something. Also the original position is something that could come from either Town or scum so it didn't change my read.

For Nero, it looks like he was the one putting words in Maria's mouth while accusing her of doing the same. It was possible he just misunderstood her posts, but when he attacked her join date it felt like a cheap shot to me and to say it was deflection when Maria called him on it was some bull. It felt like Nero just wanted to attack and push Maria rather than engage her in good faith.

I mean, there was maybe a little misunderstanding on my part.

without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.

like this is not something I'm thinking or have expressed an opinion on it. I know 2 town roles, maybe 4 since I'm coming around to the idea of using two millers. Its not enough for me to know whether or not the town is weak or strong and I can't tell you about the nature of the scumteam.
How is that NOT putting words into my mouth?

I had felt like her quoting my 222 was a misrep of the usage of the word weak there and her trying to claim that I'm calling hiders weak and thus the town weak.

She's basicly sheeping Dunn here but adding on some strongly worded hot air. If she thinks I'm scummy that I felt it was a very strong possibility that one of Dave or Tchill was scum that got CCed/fakeclaimed then fine but she's trying hard to make it seem like she's not sheeping Dunn. I don't really understand why she thinks I think

without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.

and why it makes sense to you. Explain it to me like I'm 3.

So what I got from Maria was that you think it’s fishy that there are so many neg utility roles and focusing on that and aren’t considering the chance that we do have those neg utility roles and Town has powerful roles to compensate. Also I’m pretty sure she was talking about weak roles as in they are underpowered or neg utility not as in the modifier Weak, which is probably a source of legit misunderstanding.

yep. Thought I made this clear
my fav is my facial expression a lot of this game (not why I picked it but it fits)

[Alchemist21]

Early Kaede+MariaR Interactions: Opposite reaction here too; this is where my MariaR townread started, specifically #35; something about the early miller talks feels way off and I liked the attempt to push discussion away from that.

Jingle is actually in agreement with you on that, and since my first post on the interaction, I have her as pretty null. I like your point about trying to push discussion elsewhere. I do think if both millers are town, scum would benefit greatly from using it to justify votes/lynch options.

Alchemist #63: This is a big one; Alchemist hit a huge scumvibe with this post, although primarily combined with his #55 (which I independently found scummy). Alchemist hasn't felt genuine in these posts at all, I've been getting posturing vibes off these posts if anything.

I think 55 is pretty null... Talk to me about what pinged you on 63. Is it just the speculation re: scum miller or is there something else?

ETL

I know you didn't specifically ask for my opinion on it, but I scumread #55 mainly because of the tone shift compared to the davesaz claim. It read like he was completely thrown off by this second miller claim, which is reinforced by #63 where it feels like he's trying to look at it from square one again. It looks like he was prepared for a miller claim by davesaz, but wasn't expecting two.

I’ve never played a game with 2 Millers before so it really did throw me off when a second one claimed.

[MariaR]

Why would that throw you off?

[Alchemist21]

Because it was as unexpected as the Spanish Inquisition. And RC immediately commented that 2 Millers is a thing in GiF games so instead of just seeing a counterclaim I had to think about all the extra possibilities.

[MariaR]

*shrug* I guess I don't get why it takes people for a loop when they see 2 of the same claim. I ran into the same issue before in a game got n1ed for being a voice of reason. Remind me what your stance of the 2 players in question are play wise?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Ok so i was without internet all afternoon, but here's the thing.
So far ETL has made a better job at convincing me they're right than Ouroboros has. Hence why i sheeped onto Wraith. (hopefully that more or less answers your question dave)
As I was reading when I saw Ouroboros TR on Ram considering they voted them earlier and did a switch out of nowhere for weird reasons that dont imply at all a weakening on that SR, which left me ?????
Then the OMGUS that i have the opposite view on.
And suddenly im not even sure if RC is town anymore.

[MariaR]

I'll be able to give you that answer in due time.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Dunno if it's just me but some of RC's read trajectories feel unnatural.

[MariaR]

RC trying to control d1 is normal. I'll be waiting for a certain moment in time and depending on his reaction I'll prob 1v1 him or have him as "town"

[Dunnstral]

Dunno if it's just me but some of RC's read trajectories feel unnatural.

Yeah because they're fake, doesn't mean he's scum though

[Ouroboros]

Do you remember in our last game when I said in postgame that I was not actually a fan of Alisae bussing me solely for the reason that it made you think that the way that you read me worked?
It doesn't. What you are doing right now in a broader perspective is scumreading me whenever I try to be an impact player.

I need to be able to play like this, I can't afford as town to spend time massaging my read changes and making them look more palatable to you.
The meta that I have played to in this game, even though it gets me mislynched or errantly scumread frequently, is by far my most effective as town.

If I slowed down the game and didn't post reads until I was sure of them my read transitions would be not scummy to you, but it would hurt my ability to develop those reads.
Please don't try to force me to water down my town play in order to not get scumread. I'm not scum and your concern about my read changes heavily leans towards me being town.

If you're comparing to the NSG thing where my read transition was bad... yeah it was... because I wasn't trying to live to endgame.

[Alchemist21]

*shrug* I guess I don't get why it takes people for a loop when they see 2 of the same claim. I ran into the same issue before in a game got n1ed for being a voice of reason. Remind me what your stance of the 2 players in question are play wise?

There’s not much more to go on for Dave beyond what I’ve already said about him probably not gambiting as scum. He needs to post more but it’s usually like that with him until he gets a good chunk of time to focus on the game.

Impossibear matched a lot of my thoughts on Wilky and it’s put me back to thinking scum Wilky doesn’t claim like that. I’ll have to dig deeper at his posts when I have more time but I haven’t seen anything that looks scummy on the surface.

This is my last post tonight. Gotta save some battery for emergencies.

[Ouroboros]

Oh and the ramcius one I feel pretty certain on: there's little scum motivation in making that read change but I buy him as town being antsy about being misread and omgusing

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Reads transitioning a lot =/= Reads transitioning unnaturally.
You can have slower reads and transition unnaturally, you can also have quicker read changes but transition naturally.

[Ouroboros]

I don't play like other people.
I was lynchbait when I first came to site because I was honest about my reads and that always reads as scummy because people don't understand how I read people. It's the same reason my meta used to be to just yell that people were scum without explanation.
My natural read transitions will never come across as natural to you. I can deal with that by not explaining my reads and massaging them so I come across like 'other' people or I can play my best like I am here.

I would prefer to play like I am here but if I do somehow get mislynched this game it's time to go back to just yelling what my reads are and not trying to explain them to people.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I dunno what's worse, the fact that your reads seem unnatural, or the fact that your explanation doesnt correlate with your play this game and feels like kinda trippy.

[Ouroboros]

I don't know what response you want me to give to that. I'll work on convincing other people then.