Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Eddie Cane]

fuck that post makes me so angry I'm not doing this now

[petroleumjelly]

Great.

Mod

: Replace me.

[Eddie Cane]

no, he can stay. replace me.

[Pine]

reasons to vote pj: 7 points against me that are absolute dogshit.

Actually, I found the case as a whole to be pretty solid. I'll take it into consideration when I do my read through tonight

[Pine]

fuck that post makes me so angry I'm not doing this now

...scumgaveup?

As far as I can tell, there was nothing wrong with PJ's case. The confirming-in-thread thing is stupid, but the rest was solid and not hostile in presentation. Eddie's ragequit here is bizarre.

[hitogoroshi]

Lycan

, why would you cast a vote mid-catchup when it was contingent on Pine's answer to a question that might have been answered already?

Do you know what it is that usually bugs your gut (about MoI) that isn't bugging your gut this time? And why that doesn't make you feel more conflicted?

I think it's that MoI's cases (as either alignment) tend to be kind of "policy" in the sense that sometimes, it feels more like MoI equates the "least acceptable player" with the most likely to have a red PM, as either alignment. Whereas this game, I found his opening to be a lot more proactive and concerned about motive.

Hito - You wanna know why your rofl town read for managing thread culture is weak sauce? It's personality dependent, but you don't seem to be taking that into account. I've done it, seen other scum do it, but you're taking it at face value it's just town cuz scum don't do it. I didn't think that you had those kind of superficial town do this/scum do this type outlook.

Sure. I've done it too. But tells that are tells because they

benefit

town are expensive for scum to throw out. So leading with one early makes me feel good.

Also why is Firebringer's 247 gross? Dig a little deeper. Why does it benefit scum him?

Being able to minimize your accountability to the point where you can have a scum read but throw it away to vote a town read just because another town read is voting them is something scum would love to be able to do. And I don't like that Firebringer didn't even think of trying to bring his town read on to

his

wagon instead when Eddie didn't have any momentum either. It's one thing to consolidate when you're way off in lala land and your TR tries to get you on a moving wagon, but when you're BOTH singletons, why give up so easy?

Having said that, I can believe Firebringer-town would play like this - it's definitely scum-

beneficial

, but I'm not sure how scum

indicative

it is, which is why I'm happier pursuing my positive scum read in Twyin/Lycan. I wouldn't be that sad switching over to Firebringer, though.

I feel like Eddie's anger here is scummy because it implies he thinks PJ is town (eg against his stated reads). I mean, is "anger" the reaction you get when your scum read pushes you? Surely it's the scums *job* to do bad pushes? When Tywin threw down on me, I didn't get angry at him, I was actually excited that his post was confirming the things I had an eye out for.

[CooLDoG]

ohh god. I'm several days behind. I'll try to catch up as soon as possible. This game is so damn dense... busy with life bullshit...

[Firebringer]

no, he can stay. replace me.

Don’t you dare

[Kmd4390]

Guys don't replace out. Ugh.

[Pine]

Guys don't replace out. Ugh.

[roflcopter]

booooo don't ragequit either of you

i will focus on this game tomorrow morning

[Tammy]

I'm super interested in the thing you thought you saw from our scum chat, so I hope you point it out before i fall asleep!

I've started a post about it, but needed a break because I had loud toddlers in the room and now I'm realizing I have to catch up again so that will take priority. But basically, it stems from what I said when you first replaced in: that you are good at scum, but appear to get stressed out playing it. I still need to look at meta and am struggling to figure out what was you and what was Nacho in nancy's game.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

There's nothing faceable about that and once it became a town tell it ceased being a town tell.

Are you speaking generally or about Insanity specifically? Because for some people, it's still a town tell.

Thank you for thinking I'm good at scum it that's real! I do hate/get stressed out playing scum. It wears me down emotionally in a different way than playing town that I have a hard time with! (I'm not sure why people have such a hard time differentiating between Nacho and me; I feel like we're so different posting-style wise.)

In general yes. For some people it might be a town tell; is there a reason you think it is for her specifically?

Given that you're voting Hito at the moment, how do you feel about Tammy constantly repeating that she has a townread on Hito based on making a comment about "grubby hands"?

Can you explain what constantly repeating means to you?

Repeated with some frequency. This is something you've mentioned as the only reason given for a Hito townread 360 and 422. I find it strange that roflcoptor calls out an over-explained Axel townread, but not a similarly odd repeated explanation of a townread on Hito (who he is currently voting).

Now that you have read more of Hito's posts, what is your current read of him?

Repeated once isn't "constant" or "with some frequency"; it's why I caught my eye. I made a statement based on random reading here and there before I replaced in, and when I got to that point said I still liked my earlier point.

The way you phrased it feel like you're using rhetoric in a dishonest way. Like you're trying to get rofl to feel even better about his scum read there and in a way that leaves your hands clean.

My read on Hito is leaning town. It's not as strong as I'd hoped it would be if he were town as I hoped I'd feel like kind of energy strongly throughout. I see hints of it elsewhere but only enough to give me a lean, but I don't really feel comfortable with my day one reads these days and leans are about as good as I get.

If you think Tammy can testify for the decency of your towngame, please feel free to request her to make a statement to convince myself and the rest of the town.

Magna does have a good town game. I don't think that reading one or two games and seeing that someone tunneled on town means they don't have a good town game in general. There's more in general to being a good town player than always having the best reads, and people have games where their reads aren't the greatest. It happens, and everyone has weaknesses.

Anyway, this is probably not the most productive line of argument.

Eddie - I'm getting lazy about cutting down quote stripes and want to spend the limited time I have tonight trying to get past a page or two. I don't think you were being waged for your join date. I realize that a few players do focus on silly things like join dates, but I don't think that's what happened here, though I appreciate you may have felt that way. Regarding dickishness - We can agree to disagree at the level of people being a dick; I don't think it really matters to the alignment of the people here and has not created a toxic game state in general. I have a lower threshold of what I consider dickish behavior and really wouldn't have brought it up other than it being brought up first and me being accused of it from trying to figure out someone's alignment when I don't think I had been.

I think that's all the stuff directed at me/that mentioned me. I'm going to try to get another page or two read tonight but I'm nursing a slight hangover and am just mentally exhausted from the past week. And I've got to try to put my sleep schedule back together now that life is back to usual.

I get that mafia is frustrating, but I hope neither or you replace out I didn't actually read the case yet and what transpired but please stay!

[Tammy]

I'm sorry for grammatical/typing issues. My keyboard is sticking, and I'm not catching all the mistakes.

[Tammy]

Also, this just in, PJ is Town. Doing his research, calling people on their shit, making me actually re-evaluate. That's Townish enough, at least for now.

This was the post I read that I liked from Pine.

I'm not sure how alignment indicative it is, but I liked it.

Trying to figure out if Eddie would be so offended by PJ if he were scum.

Tywin's 320 is thrbt and besides that I don't understand his reads.

Actually I'm just skimming from here trying to get caught up. I need to reread this page, but it's coming up on the page I replaced into, so I don't really have THAT much to catch up on.

[Pine]

Tammy I think you've redeemed the Chamber slot.

Talk to me about Tywin. I never saw the SR on him, and Lycan looks fine to me.

[Axelrod]

Sorry guys. I have not been paying any attention to this game this weekend. Will post something meaningful tomorrow.

[Old Man]

If you think Tammy can testify for the decency of your towngame, please feel free to request her to make a statement to convince myself and the rest of the town.

Magna does have a good town game. I don't think that reading one or two games and seeing that someone tunneled on town means they don't have a good town game in general. There's more in general to being a good town player than always having the best reads, and people have games where their reads aren't the greatest. It happens, and everyone has weaknesses.

What are Magna's strengths as town?

[Korts]

I have talked to both PJ and Eddie regarding the replacement requests.

Unfortunately, PJ insisted on leaving, and will be replaced as soon as I get back from my date tonight.

[Axelrod]

Well this is unfortunate.

Can't we all just get along?

Only a game people. (says the man fully capable of losing his **** when someone has made a BS attack on him that other people seem to actually be buying....but that's neither here nor there)

[Pine]

Sigh

Why can't we all just be a little kinder?

[Kmd4390]

Eddie, I finally read jelly's big post and I agree with you that most of his points are no good (it's all either personality tells or signs that he himself is out of touch with current site meta). I'm curious what you have to say about his point five though. I don't necessarily agree that it makes you scum but it's the one point that stands out to me and his replace out costs us the interaction between the two of you that was sure to follow and could have been useful if not for emotions getting in the way.

Pine, can you tell me which of jelly's points you liked and why? By post 504, I'm guessing 3-7. Is that accurate?

I think it's that MoI's cases (as either alignment) tend to be kind of "policy" in the sense that sometimes, it feels more like MoI equates the "least acceptable player" with the most likely to have a red PM, as either alignment. Whereas this game, I found his opening to be a lot more proactive and concerned about motive.

That's interesting because I've also noticed that about Magna. The difference is I do see it here.

[Axelrod]

Axel

, please respond to my question from earlier:

Well, I think it is still

possible

that Pine could be lynched today, though with the advent of baby Pinecone, I suspect that's less likely, as he has literally the best possible excuse to be, shall we say, not on the top of his game. But in terms of overall suspicions, he's still right there near the top.

If the thrust of this question, however, is "why aren't you, personally, doing more to achieve this lynch" then I would direct you back to "I generally don't have strong reads on people D1." Not strong enough to get all gung-ho rally the troops let's lynch this scum. I'm just generally more laid back about it, at least early on.

Give me a few flips, and some claims, and I'll give you the game....(he says, not at all modestly)

Also can everyone take in the majesty of the following claimed stances by Fire -

1. I'm scum for potentially delegating my read on a single player to Pine (and he keeps also forgetting I put Eddie and now Tammy in that pool as well).
2. He's happy to delegate his vote for today to another player (Eddie) even when that results in multiple cases of him voting claimed Townreads.

If you Town read that behavior then ... I mean ... WHUT?

It's like, while I agree with you that the behavior is not townie, the conclusion I draw in this particular case is the opposite. Because I just don't feel like a scum would actually be posting like that.

I agree that I don't like those stances from Firebringer. However, I'm also feeling that his play is almost too blatant or too scummy to actually be scum.

Right. See? This.

Because I was being policy lynched and aside from Pine he was really the only one saying anything about it. They can defend it all they want, but it isn't a coincidence the person with the newest join date ended up being l-2 within a couple pages.

I actually think that was a complete coincidence and had 0 % to do with your join date. Your reaction to the whole wagon, however, feels more like a Townie one than a scum one.

My take on PJ's Eddie case. Kind of sad that PJ has now absented himself, but I'm still talking like he's still in the game, here. My comments in

bold

.

Spoiler:

Reasons to vote Eddie Cane:

1.)

Not confirming in-thread, though is at

best

a minor point. The theory here is that he could have possibly confirmed in a scum PT,

or

he could have been intentionally holding off an official in-thread confirmation, thinking it would allow him more time to talk in the scum PT before the game began.

You are correct. This is

at best

a minor point

.

2.)

After the Mod announced the game had begun -- i.e., everybody had confirmed -- Eddie Cane quietly confirmed in-thread and then made a "not RVS" vote.

Had nobody called out his in-thread confirmation, it would have appeared that he was just now confirming and hadn't realized the game had started until posting. I think this post was an intentional attempt to conform. It suggests without saying.

I do not agree this was what he was doing, and I do not agree it would have worked at all as you suggest even if it was what he was trying to do. This does not seem to be a viable plan for a scum-Eddie.

3.)

When pressed about both his confirmation and his non-RVS vote, he simply posted "revelation: old people don't understand jokes." This is problematic in multiple ways.

First, Eddie Cane is wedging the term "old people" into the game as a contrast to himself. While clearly not a newbie, he has multiple times 'explained' the votes on him as being because he has a more recent join date, and that his wagon is 'policy.' This is very obviously not the case. It's like he's trying to get the benefits of playing the newbie card while acknowledging he is not a newbie.

The simpler explanation is: nobody got the joke

.

Second, Eddie Cane did not initially clarify whether he "confirmation" or his non-RVS vote was supposed to be a joke. His sweep is far too general.

When I looked back at it, I got it. I don't see where there should be confusion as to whether a vote labeled as "not RVS" was, in fact, a RVS joke. And that wouldn't exactly be scummy anyway.

Third, if the in-thread confirmation was a joke, then there were

no

suggestions that it was a joke. There are multiple ways that could have been done. And yet apparently adding a winky face (or literally

any

comment to suggest he was joking) is "stupid bullshit". Clearly it isn't, especially coming from somebody who already uses emoticons fairly frequently in their posting.

Yes, no one got the joke the first time. This isn't an argument why he's scum though. You seem to be suggesting that the fact it was ambiguous meant he left himself options to claim it meant one thing or the other, depending on what looked best to say, but there really aren't a whole lot of "options" there for him to have tried to finagle.

4.)

Eddie Cane then declined to interact with chamber's legitimate prodding, and ultimately attempted to excuse himself from posting content potentially up to page 10 of the game (see Post #70). When he was correctly called out on this by MagnaofIllusion, Eddie Cane had the absurd over-reaction of:

Arrogant oldie thinking he knows better than me, complete with

bold

and

italics

. next time try underlining it I might understand better. You should check your math, though, because it's more like 1-2 days at max. I'm not going to rush my sorting because of a retarded wagon on me.

This post is

incredibly

bad, and pretty childish overall.

First, and

again

, Eddie Cane draws a line between an ("arrogant") "oldie" and himself.

Second, he then tries to shift the discussion as if people are talking down to him (which is a constant theme when somebody is pressig him). That is not what's happening here. MagnaofIllusion was putting a stop to any attempts of Eddie Cane to avoid having to post content for a significant portion of the game.

Third, Eddie Cane dismisses his wagon as being "retarded." Besides being language he obviously shouldn't be avoiding, it's also not the case. RVS wagons are often necessary to give a game momentum (which he must know). The reasons for a wagon starting on him in this game are as legitimate as anything. And the two additional votes (from myself and chamber) were due to his

reactions

to his wagon.

His reaction - in hindsight, mind you - is the towniest-looking thing about it. It feels much more like someone who felt wrongfully persecuted for poor reasons threatening to pack up his toys and go home rather than play anymore. Also, I tend to think that scum run up like that would take a less defiant stance, and be more conciliatory. Possible whine a bit more about how unfair the whole thing is. Possibly trying to appease by doing exactly what people are demanding that he do.

5.)

When Eddie Cane gives his first post with reads in it (see Post #128), there is little explanation, but what stands out to me is how his reads seem to correlate with those on or off his wagon. His three scumreads (Kmd4390, myself, and chamber) are all players who were voting for him. His top two Townreads (CooLDog and Old Man) are a claimed power role and the guy going most all-out against the Eddie Wagon cane. His other two Townreads (Kison and roflcopter) are a player who finds the confirmation votes "silly" and a player who voted for Axelrod while saying it was a "better vote than eddie or pine."

Essentially, all of his stated reads appear be surface-level and reactionary as to whether players agree with the gist of the Eddie Cane/Pine push.

Possibly this is true. It is not at all scummy, however. It's kind of normal, I think.

6.)

For my part, I tried to look at things from another angle at this point in the game. I did not like (and still do not like) Eddie Cane's posting, but it is certainly possible that part of my scumread on him can be attributed to me simply not liking his playstyle, and maybe his confirmation post was a poor joke.

I tried to ask him

multiple

times to explain his motivations as to why he was playing the way he was (see Post #195, Post #227, Post #263, Post #286, and Post #303). I still never really received a satisfactory answer.

At first he "couldn't tell me" what his mindset was, and then invited me to ask

other

players to fill in Eddie Cane's mindset for me (Post #278). He later sweeps away my questions again and then invites me to spend "five minutes" skimming any of his games (Post #289). After I do that, he basically reverts to insisting I am "talking down to him" (Post #306) when it is very clear I am just trying to get actual answers from him.

He was being obstinate, yes. You seem to be assuming that being obstinate in and of itself = scummy. I do not agree?

7.)

Eddie has also been highly evasive when I pressed on him on his read of Pine:

I couldn't say this before, but Pine and I had an ongoing game during this and his posting here felt like he was genuinely trying to sort me. 52 is pretty townie. his attempts to engage me ring genuine from the perspective he was a player who just saw me perform as (pocketed) town. some of his posts kind of felt buddy-y on the surface but i doubt he'd hard buddy me 2 games in a row in immediate succession so i don't read into it. pine is my most hesitant tr but i'm still gonna call him a tr above a lean and he's off the table for a lynch.

First, Eddie Cane indicates he was thinking Pine has been trying to "sort him" well before this post, and that he was simply waiting to be able to say so. Second, he explicitly says that Pine has had "attempts to engage" with him.

When asked, Eddie's first response was:

Sorting doesn't mean asking a bunch of questions. He's sorting my alignment, internally. It followed off our last game and recent games are always more fresh in your subconscious.

I press again for a more in-depth explanation, and we get:

You already listed posts...

I press a third time, and now:

1.) Eddie Cane, please explain why you feel Pine is internally "sorting" you.

asking me the same retarded question while i'm busy irl for a third time is not going to make me answer quicker, maybe try 4 or 5?

I don't remember why I thought that. Looking back Pine's early stuff still doesn't look scummy to me. He's defending someone he knows is competent from stupid bullshit such as not adding a winkie face to a joke.

So now, the thing that Eddie Cane was initially thinking but

couldn't say

about Pine, and then he

could

say about Pine once their other game ended, is something he "can't remember." And apparently he can't figure out what it was by simply re-reading Pine's posts in this game.

I think Eddie Cane's "read" on Pine is completely fabricated. While initially giving his read, he expressly said that Pine was "engaging" with him, but after being pressed he withdraws and changes up the language, suggesting Pine is simply sorting him "internally" and therefore doesn't have to ask questions or actively discuss anything with him. And now he somehow doesn't remember where he got his impression.

This is the only point with any teeth at all as far as I can tell. Eddie does kind of back off/shift his position with respect to where his read on Pine was coming from.

~

Even now Eddie Cane's reads ultimately appear to be that people who support him in the game are Town, and people who attack (or "annoy") him in the game are scum, with the occasional nuance thrown in for players in-between. He continually avoids explaining himself, and acts offended when he is pressed. While clearly not a newbie, he is happy to jump to how "old" players are attacking him in a "circlejerk" of voting for a player with a recent join date.

Yes, but most of that isn't actually indicative of being scum.

reasons to vote pj: 7 points against me that are absolute dogshit.

Actually, I found the case as a whole to be pretty solid. I'll take it into consideration when I do my read through tonight

To which I give a strong :eyebrow

(why don't we have that smiley )

Thank you for thinking I'm good at scum it that's real! I do hate/get stressed out playing scum. It wears me down emotionally in a different way than playing town that I have a hard time with! (I'm not sure why people have such a hard time differentiating between Nacho and me; I feel like we're so different posting-style wise.)

In as much as I feel like I have a "meta" on anyone, being as cold as I am, I would agree with this: Tammy gets stressed playing scum. And what she's done here so far has felt relaxed and easy-going enough for me feel pretty decent about her so far. It no doubt helps she's giving me the 'old Town read, and if she's aware enough to know that's going to boost her in my viewpoint, then good on her, I guess.

And Lycan still hasn't said enough to make me feel better about his slot.

[Eddie Cane]

I have talked to both PJ and Eddie regarding the replacement requests.

Unfortunately, PJ insisted on leaving, and will be replaced as soon as I get back from my date tonight.

Spoke to the mod, and among other things PJ leaving means I have no reason to and Lycan is probably only here because I am so that would also be a dick move. I can go into what made me angry and why I offered to sub if people like, but usually I just get bitched at for my AtE so I won't unless its requested.

[Eddie Cane]

1.) Not confirming in-thread, though is at best a minor point. The theory here is that he could have possibly confirmed in a scum PT, or he could have been intentionally holding off an official in-thread confirmation, thinking it would allow him more time to talk in the scum PT before the game began.

Ok.

2.) After the Mod announced the game had begun -- i.e., everybody had confirmed -- Eddie Cane quietly confirmed in-thread and then made a "not RVS" vote.

Had nobody called out his in-thread confirmation, it would have appeared that he was just now confirming and hadn't realized the game had started until posting. I think this post was an intentional attempt to conform. It suggests without saying.

Okay, so this is a not toxic game, but may I just say I find it fucking hilarious you'd even try and sell this as a valid point. How many times have you been on the internet in your life? How many of those have had "something ie a winky face "?

3.) When pressed about both his confirmation and his non-RVS vote, he simply posted "revelation: old people don't understand jokes." This is problematic in multiple ways.

First, Eddie Cane is wedging the term "old people" into the game as a contrast to himself. While clearly not a newbie, he has multiple times 'explained' the votes on him as being because he has a more recent join date, and that his wagon is 'policy.' This is very obviously not the case. It's like he's trying to get the benefits of playing the newbie card while acknowledging he is not a newbie.

Second, Eddie Cane did not initially clarify whether he "confirmation" or his non-RVS vote was supposed to be a joke. His sweep is far too general.

Third, if the in-thread confirmation was a joke, then there were no suggestions that it was a joke. There are multiple ways that could have been done. And yet apparently adding a winky face (or literally any comment to suggest he was joking) is "stupid bullshit". Clearly it isn't, especially coming from somebody who already uses emoticons fairly frequently in their posting.

Firstly, the last game I played with old fucks had them all calling me a newbie until corrected by KMD.

Second, because that's not a fucking confusing thing. When the first post in the thread and subsequent wagon are because of something you didn't do, sarcastically doing that thing is a standard joke. That's not even a new thing. Adding a winky face (or literally any comment to suggest he was joking) is "stupid bullshit".

4.) Eddie Cane then declined to interact with chamber's legitimate prodding, and ultimately attempted to excuse himself from posting content potentially up to page 10 of the game (see Post #70). When he was correctly called out on this by MagnaofIllusion, Eddie Cane had the absurd over-reaction of:

Except, no. I said if I hadn't posted by page 10 to get back to me. I was waiting for KMD, and that usually happens within a day or two of games I'm in. Thinking back it also wasn't a huge ask because deadlines are a month anyways so lurking out of the day was not an option. I did not decline to interact with Chamber, I asked him what kind of meta he wanted because it was a broad as fuck question. Then he subbed.

This post is incredibly bad, and pretty childish overall.

First, and again, Eddie Cane draws a line between an ("arrogant") "oldie" and himself.

Second, he then tries to shift the discussion as if people are talking down to him (which is a constant theme when somebody is pressig him). That is not what's happening here. MagnaofIllusion was putting a stop to any attempts of Eddie Cane to avoid having to post content for a significant portion of the game.

Third, Eddie Cane dismisses his wagon as being "retarded." Besides being language he obviously shouldn't be avoiding, it's also not the case. RVS wagons are often necessary to give a game momentum (which he must know). The reasons for a wagon starting on him in this game are as legitimate as anything. And the two additional votes (from myself and chamber) were due to his reactions to his wagon.

First, the good players of this gen (mostly) don't immediately talk down to people like I thought Magna was. There is definitely a difference between how ya'll play and I do.

Second, they were. Lol. Good Magna buddying noted. Also, I responded to everything, as I've said already I respond to everything (mostly) including from scum reads as I don't believe in the scum tactic of just ignoring people and annoying them and I don't believe in putting someone as scum and never looking back regardless of how confident I am.

I should be avoiding retarded? This isn't the time for a philosophical debate but if people ask me not to use a word I don't (and Math asks me not to use that one in every game we play for example). You never even mentioned it existing. RVS wagons are the best way to get a game started, yep, I always laugh at people who fos me when I vote the biggest wagon specifically because its the biggest wagon early. It doesn't change the fact it happened on me specifically because well lets not rehash this again.

5.) When Eddie Cane gives his first post with reads in it (see Post #128), there is little explanation, but what stands out to me is how his reads seem to correlate with those on or off his wagon. His three scumreads (Kmd4390, myself, and chamber) are all players who were voting for him. His top two Townreads (CooLDog and Old Man) are a claimed power role and the guy going most all-out against the Eddie Wagon cane. His other two Townreads (Kison and roflcopter) are a player who finds the confirmation votes "silly" and a player who voted for Axelrod while saying it was a "better vote than eddie or pine."

Essentially, all of his stated reads appear be surface-level and reactionary as to whether players agree with the gist of the Eddie Cane/Pine push.

Don't talk about Old Man, he was the obvious town most of the game pushed until he was outed as a PR. CD is blatantly town too. Those are easy reads, and as scum they (well CD) would be easy and clean mislynches, so you could say I'm scum buddying sure but its funny you want to ship it as scum. Yea, my reads are kinda reactionary, that's true in all my games pretty much and fire / kmd / lycan can attest to that, and I have a >>>rand read accuracy so you call it what you want. Kison is also pretty damn townie in comparison to PyP now, but that was at 2 posts. I was right about one of those reads at least (you), possibly a second (KMD), probably not the third (Chamber), but that was early as fuck so I'm happy even if it is 1/3. I townhunt, not scum hunt, anyways. I can go full self meta if requested but again probably not wanted here.

6.) For my part, I tried to look at things from another angle at this point in the game. I did not like (and still do not like) Eddie Cane's posting, but it is certainly possible that part of my scumread on him can be attributed to me simply not liking his playstyle, and maybe his confirmation post was a poor joke.

I tried to ask him multiple times to explain his motivations as to why he was playing the way he was (see Post #195, Post #227, Post #263, Post #286, and Post #303). I still never really received a satisfactory answer.

At first he "couldn't tell me" what his mindset was, and then invited me to ask other players to fill in Eddie Cane's mindset for me (Post #278). He later sweeps away my questions again and then invites me to spend "five minutes" skimming any of his games (Post #289). After I do that, he basically reverts to insisting I am "talking down to him" (Post #306) when it is very clear I am just trying to get actual answers from him.

You never tried to look at things from another angle don't fucking try that. I have fucking 92 results in your ISO. For reference Hito had 8. Magna has 5. KMD has 18. You've spent all fucking game asking me questions, and I've answered all of them even if sharply, so don't give me shit about "a nonsatisfactory answer".

If that's not the narrative I am supposed to gather from your posts, then what is? I don't really understand your playstyle, or why you have played the way you have played.

how is someone supposed to answer "why do you have the playstyle you have" or "what is your narrative"? that's a loaded question. My "mindset" is to lynch scum, and my "mindset" as scum would be to get town lynched.

So now, the thing that Eddie Cane was initially thinking but couldn't say about Pine, and then he could say about Pine once their other game ended, is something he "can't remember." And apparently he can't figure out what it was by simply re-reading Pine's posts in this game.

I think Eddie Cane's "read" on Pine is completely fabricated. While initially giving his read, he expressly said that Pine was "engaging" with him, but after being pressed he withdraws and changes up the language, suggesting Pine is simply sorting him "internally" and therefore doesn't have to ask questions or actively discuss anything with him. And now he somehow doesn't remember where he got his impression.

~

Even now Eddie Cane's reads ultimately appear to be that people who support him in the game are Town, and people who attack (or "annoy") him in the game are scum, with the occasional nuance thrown in for players in-between. He continually avoids explaining himself, and acts offended when he is pressed. While clearly not a newbie, he is happy to jump to how "old" players are attacking him in a "circlejerk" of voting for a player with a recent join date.

I don't remember why I had a gut reaction a week or whatever after it happened. Looking back at his posts, I didn't have the same reaction, so I need to reevaluate. I was planning on rereading anyways, I always skim back through games. I remember being with him in the resistance game (which feels like it ended ages ago to me) and based on his reaction to that I thought he was sorting me here based on my play there which shows genuine peering. I don't remember which of his posts made me feel that way and it was old enough that it doesn't feel that way now. I'm not used to games being this slow paced, 2 weeks is excessive enough for me and those move much quicker usually - But, yes,

Point 7 and point 5 are "fair". I could see those as reasons to fos someone. The rest is not at all, and I can't really see someone genuinely believing them. PJ thought I was mislynchable, and he's been angling for it the full game. It is blatant these are playstyle points and PJ's written some of the guides there's no way he doesn't know that.

That said, if I were not still trying to get answers from Eddie Cane, my vote would likely be on either Kmd4390 or Tywin Lannister. (Or if I were in a pressure-voting mood, I could swing to voting roflcopter, Pine, or Morality). I am waiting for both of them to finish catching up and answer pending questions.

Except you have barely interacted with other players.

[Eddie Cane]

I feel like Eddie's anger here is scummy because it implies he thinks PJ is town (eg against his stated reads). I mean, is "anger" the reaction you get when your scum read pushes you? Surely it's the scums *job* to do bad pushes? When Tywin threw down on me, I didn't get angry at him, I was actually excited that his post was confirming the things I had an eye out for.

There's a difference between bad pushes and bullying a player for 20 pages. I can explain why I was angry if you'd like. Not really relevant.