Mini Normal 2002: The Thaw OVERRRRRRRRR

[Piplup]

Hello!

[Piplup]

Yep. I've played before on a different forum though.

[Piplup]

I would say an hour. I have some time right now to read through everything.

[Piplup]

7 vote counts over 850 posts? That's extremely light.

I think CultofAthena is town and there is definite mafia in Flavor Leaf and/or StefanB.

[Piplup]

She had to many votes on her placed too quickly. I do not think that if she was scum that that would have happened.

[Piplup]

wait is Piplup confirmed to be an Eddie alt?

I'm not an alt account.

Town: GreyIce, Gamma Emerald, Hoopla, Cheetory6

At least (and probably only) one scum: StefanB, Flavor Leaf, MoI

Probably in StefanB/FlavorLeaf

(Probably) One more scum: Saudade, Prism, Hiraki, implosion

Probably not implosion. I want to focus on line three.

VOTE: StefanB

[Piplup]

And he flipped Vanilla Town. Correct?

[Piplup]

That I was wrong at speed of the wagon meaning anything. However, it doesn't change the fact that scum (likely) bussed, and I think it's in the three that I listed because they saw that she was the inevitable lynch. The fact that I was scumreading Flavor Leaf and StefanB prior is why I separated them out from MagnaofIllusion as more likely scum.

[Piplup]

Those reads are practically the same as the end of yesterday.

This is also an untruth. I never gave my overall reads during Day 1.

[Piplup]

You threw people in a list without elaborating. Feel free to do so at any time, you don't need me to ask you.

The point was a continuity from end of day to today in who you scumread+focused on. Be pedantic if you want.

Curious perception of the lynch as inevitable-Stefan served as a crucial turning point, on at least two occasions.

It's not pedantry to point out an incorrect statement, especially one as broad and incorrect as yours. If you wanted to focus on my scum reads, you could have stated that. If you wanted to ask why I had players listed as town, you could have. You didn't.

Point out the two crucial turning points for StefanB, please. I must have missed them.

Also, Prism rises to the top of list 3, and if Stefan is scum, is also likely scum.

[Piplup]

Uh yea I think so

So, what was your point with that comment?

[Piplup]

I'm now top 3 for ~misrepresenting~ your reads...despite the point I was making being pretty obvious. Literally 0 insight into my play otherwise or why I was on the list to begin with.

I said you were top of my list 3. You should get some food in you so that you can read with some comprehension. I'm focusing on my list 2 for today (considering list one was my town list).

[Piplup]

Also, I feel like Piplup was trying to warlock Grey, but Grey’s reads had changed a little, and he’s not as loud as he was before.

What does "warlock" mean?

[Piplup]

Also, I feel like Piplup was trying to warlock Grey, but Grey’s reads had changed a little, and he’s not as loud as he was before.

What does "warlock" mean?

Basically, a very specific form of buddying. You’re the one in the back controlling a strong monster that’s completely doing your bidding, and doing the work for you.

If that’s the case, then I was mistaken about that happening with you.

What did I do to make you think that?

[Piplup]

I thought you were hard pushing Stefan/Flavor, which Grey was loudly doing yesterday, which as scum, would reinforce that idea and have Grey be the one to push it through to take the blunt of the blame in a mislynch

I was asked for my thoughts after a lynch had been achieved. How did you think I was "hard pushing" anything?

[Piplup]

Grey – I am ready and willing to 1v1 you today if you’d like. With a Day 1 scum lynch I think there is room to prove your scum read on me is manufactured even if it takes me being lynched as long as the rest of the Town sends you down the line right afterwards.

So, to be clear here. You think that Grey spearheaded the lynch on one of his partners when there were other options? To, what end?

[Piplup]

Oh wait, it's Day 2. I forget we don't do a RVS now.

UNVOTE:

You have a lot of cakes around your avatar, which also happens to be a cake. I feel like I am missing something.

[Piplup]

That seems likely incredibly flimsy reasoning. And, if true, you should probably dedicate more time to making sure you are reading accurately. Much like Prism.

Think I want Flavor Leaf more than StefanB now.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Piplup]

It's not a crutch. D2 for me is between StefanB, you, and MagnaofIllusion. You have given me the most reason to vote between those for now, though I am waiting on MagnaofIllusion to respond.

I still believe it is between you and StefanB though.

[Piplup]

You started to feel the pressure of my Third Degree Boon, and you started pushing me because you felt that, and I hadn’t completely committed to it, even though it wasn’t incredibly obvious I was leaning scum on you.

What does this even mean? Read my post above for timing on my read on you. Again. Please read before commenting.

[Piplup]

Nothing's changed? False.

You posted a flimsy reason to "warlock" read me. And, then you posted some self-aggrandizing comment about me feeling the pressure of something I'm not sure what to make of.

In reality, I had already stated that it was between you and StefanB for me today (with an outside change of MagnaofIllusion). You have given me a reason more than StefanB has.

I am scum for voting a (already stated) scum read?

Is this what passes for a good town player? I'm more inclined to think it is scum trying to get a mislynch.

[Piplup]

Piplup, why do you think that it was most likely exactly one busser? I dislike agreeing in any capacity with something that flavor has said but it feels really lazy to frame the game that way.

It's quite possible that both were on given the speed (but that would likely mean they most likely were on the latter end, which is where I am focusing for today). I want to resolve my list 2 before deciding further.

[Piplup]

You chose to change to help out a scum agenda rather than actual reads.

Explain this. I do not understand.

[Piplup]

I'm scum because I have experience outside of this site?

Why do you view me as a strong player?

[Piplup]

Placeholder vote?

Wow. Are you supposed to be good at this game?

[Piplup]

Apparently, on this site you should be somewhat silent, crack a few jokes, not answer questions, use some buzzwords, and then be town read.

Good job. Let me know when you want to actually engage or lynch me. I seriously think some of you are worse players than this mod is a mod.

[Piplup]

Glad we can have a dialogue to help solve the game.

Super helpful cakeperson.

[Piplup]

Ericas reads seemed very strange.

Maybe you could explain further.

You had scum in Flavor Leef/Stefan before (only read on day 1) you have scum in Flavor Leef/Stefan now.

Correct. I've explained why.

Interesting reaction to the votes. Implying everyone who votes him is bad.
That is clasic scumdefence.

Untruth (borderline lying maybe?). I called one person bad for placing a "placeholder vote."

To specify:

Piplup: What did the fact that Cult flipped scum tell you?
Did it influence your reads?

I've already answered this, and have no motivation to point you to it since it is only a few pages back.

[Piplup]

To note also where the flipped scum is.

Why is this indicative of scum rather than someone with bad reads? To further that point, why would I (after the lynch was achieved) read through and state the same conclusion as scum? It would have been an easy chance for me to reverse the read.

Does not really tell anyone what you thought about the scumflip.

I'll need you to tell me what you're missing from it, because I think it does.

Who is Piplup did he replace anyone

Noting this could be scum or extremely lazy town.

Flavor does look like a viable partner

Vote here.

Grey – I am ready and willing to 1v1 you today if you’d like. With a Day 1 scum lynch I think there is room to prove your scum read on me is manufactured even if it takes me being lynched as long as the rest of the Town sends you down the line right afterwards.

So, to be clear here. You think that Grey spearheaded the lynch on one of his partners when there were other options? To, what end?

I think it’s possible and reasonable for Scum Grey to do it. Hell I’ve seen it in action first hand.

Not sure why the “to what end” question given the answer is Town cred and getting rid of a boat anchor slot. That’s Mafia basics - you claim to be experienced elsewhere so just asking the question puzzles me.

Do you disagree that Grey is widely Townread today in part thanks to that flip?

Of course it's a possibility, and I do see the basic "to what end" but it just doesn't seem reasonable to bus a partner on day 1 when there are alternative options that could lead to you being town read and not result in a partner's lynch. I get the basics, but a mafia Grey is till going to have to suvrive and extra mislynch for small town cred.

*Lots of Grey/MOI things*

things like "this person said something false."

How should I evaluate players, then? When people don't do things that make sense for them to do, they come across as mafia motivated things.

Then a bunch of Saudade still not doing anything. Ok.

[Piplup]

Piplup is super scummy, and the way Erika was talking made it seem like they didn’t want to play a scum game with “normal queue players” even though I wouldn’t call at least 9 of the players here as Normal Queue players.

You are making a lot of noise because you are being scum read.

One question: If I am lynched and flip town, will you concede that you are scum (and vote yourself)?

If so, we can end today right now. I'm am 100% no doubt that you are scum.

[Piplup]

The caveat there is, if you don't vote yourself, the rest of the town has to lynch you.

[Piplup]

No you're not.

You are doing almost nothing but talking about what you do as town and as mafia in other games. You are calling Saudade newbtown but conveniently leaving out that I am also new to this site. You started buddying up to implosion when he said you were being bad with your play. You're starting to drown.

I'm happy to be today's lynch if the rest of town can agree on lynching this scumbutt tomorrow.

[Piplup]

I'm to going to go one-on-one with you because it's pointless.

It was down to you or Stefan for me, and your play makes absolutely no sense as town, while Stefan is actually looking at the game rather than his own self-preservation.

(note: I found it funny that you commented on players reading comprehension given your's yesterday)

You can keep using superlatives to (help?) your case, but I'm not responding to them. If you do this as town regularly, I would suggest you stop.

[Piplup]

Also, if I end up being the lynch, and then I flip town, I expect you to do the same.

100% I will.

[Piplup]

However, here Piplup is statingthat it came down to either Stefan or myself, which implies they are going for a mislynch rather than finding scum, as there would be multiple scum left.

It implies that I am that certain.

And this is not a town thing to do.

Completely disagree. With my level of certainty, if you did flip town, I would be an easy mislynch come the later stages of the game resulting in a scum win. The best thing to do would be to remove myself before we reach that stage to better help town.

[Piplup]

They are also trying to have me stop analyzing, which is inherently scum orientated. Even if I was scum, it benefits to have me do that for association tells.

But as town, it’s good to get out all of my thoughts so people can see if I do in fact end up dying.

I have a pronoun. If you could be a polite person and refer to me as a person rather than a thing, that would be great.

I haven't asked you to stop doing anything, except posting every single thought your brain thinks. That clutters and causes confusion, which is scum-oriented.

[Piplup]

I am going to take a break before I enable more of this nonsense.

[Piplup]

I said they. It was referring to the gamestate...you’re just looking for things to paint me in a bad picture.

BS. At least own up to it. The "gamestate is inherently scum oriented."

Come on.

[Piplup]

Good town when you flip scum.

I. Do. Not. Care. About. Your. Other. Games.

I care about what you are doing here.

[Piplup]

I do want to point out for future reference this:

The interaction between Erika and COA was paper thin. Paper fucking thin.

I remember the first game I played with you, you drove me nuts. It was ASOIF and I hated everything you posted. It was nonsensical, it was absurdist, reading it made my eyes bleed. None of it made a lick of sense. I didn't understand how someone could write so much and analyze so little.

Then I played other games with you and you became one of my favorite players. Deep thoughts, good analysis, really, really centered play that pointed out things I never thought of. Like things I wouldn't have thought of in a week of analysis. The difference was night and day. Or, if you will, green and red.

Vote: MagnaofIllusion

If I were at a computer I’d point out for everyone to see how those interactions are not partners. But phone posting means I’ll put it succinctly - this reaction is over the top and stretching to justify the vote.

Happy to do this with you Grey.

VOTE: Grey

If both are alive at later phases. That dissolved way too easily.

[Piplup]

I wasn’t referring to just you with it. It was in reference to the entire game. Why the hell would I say “it” for a pronoun? That’s incredibly offensive, and if I get the incorrect pronouns for people, it’s because I haven’t looked at their pronoun of choice.

I work in SF, an a theatre major, and live near Oakland. I’m extremely against people who are rude about that kind of thing and feel terrible about if I ever mistakenly use the wrong pronoun. If I said it like that, I would own up to it.

Ok..not trying to attack you on a personally level, but the inference that "the game state is scum orientated" doesn't make sense to me (you said "they" not "it")

[Piplup]

Says either Stefan or myself is scum, then paints another two up for association tells....

Am I not allowed to "have my thoughts be out there and completely transparent"?

[Piplup]

I thought you were talking about when I said It.

They is gender neutral. I’ll say he if you would like that, but I said they because I didn’t know your preferred pronoun while writing my post.

Ok. For future reference, it's below a user's avatar.

[Piplup]

Says either Stefan or myself is scum, then paints another two up for association tells....

Am I not allowed to "have my thoughts be out there and completely transparent"?

That’s fine. Just keep in mind you can always be wrong.

Uh...ok. But you tried to call me out for it while you were doing the same thing (and you could also be wrong...)

[Piplup]

You realize I literally just stated I thought you were town.

I actually haven't seen that. I saw you telling me to to f'off.

Pretty sure I shut down around there. But even on a re-read, I don't see where you said I was town.

[Piplup]

Hi, Gamma. We're not going to lynch Saudade today. Please vote Flavor Leaf.

[Piplup]

@Piplup - Moi saw it.

Awesome!

Point me to it. Because I don't see it (as I said).

[Piplup]

Oh, sorry. Must have been the insult that kept me from seeing you calling me "horrible" town.

[Piplup]

Cases are scummy and overrated. I'm not tunneling (remember when you shaded me for the recent GreyICE and MagnaofIllusion thing?). I'm posting thoughts, stances, and the reasons for them. If you want me to make a 2000 word dissertation to support, that will never happen.

I do strongly think you are scum, and, you are where I want my vote today.

[Piplup]

If you thought it came down to me and Stefan, idk how you don’t see Stefan as scummy and opportunistic on me.

I'm willing to entertain a reason why Stefan is scum instead of you. I don't see it now.

[Piplup]

The mod needs to be prodded. I don't even know what the vote count looks like right now so it's hard to care about the game.

[Piplup]

Piplup appears to have site flaked, but is a slot I want to hear more from.

What do you want to hear?

Where are all the vote counts? I see some on UCV and some on Nexus but there seem to be a bunch missing?

This is fake or a bad attempt at humor...not sure which.

If Hiraki replaced that Anime girl from the start then I definitely want this slot dead.

That was me. Why do you want the slot dead?

[Piplup]

Piplup appears to have site flaked, but is a slot I want to hear more from.

What do you want to hear?

Thoughts. Scumhunting. Reason to believe you're town.

Oh...that's it? I thought you had specific questions given the call out.

Reiterate, the MOI/GreyICE interaction should be suspect in later stages, especially given claims now.

Happy to see Stafan go today. Would also vote implosion/Cheeky.

[Piplup]

I'm still paranoid about the Grey/MOI interaction. However, Grey's setup speculation is much more honest than OTM's, and I can't refute Grey's claimed actions. Grey blocking Cheeky tonight doesn't really confirm anything from an alignment perspective, but I'll put him as town for now.

I could add OTM to my pool. Prefer Stefan if we're leaving Cheeky alive.

[Piplup]

Like, if you are really going to leave, thanks for being a member here...but

You are obviously still watching the site closely, so your message and appeal is complete bunk.

[Piplup]

VOTE: Cheeky

[Piplup]

UNVOTE:

Makes sense.

[Piplup]

Vanilla Townie

[Piplup]

You.

[Piplup]

VOTE: Cheeky

[Piplup]

Piplup: To late, allready selfhammered.

Just making sure.

[Piplup]

Ah, alrighty. I didn't doubt the claim. I kind of saw Piplup on the bottom and agreed with it. Then saw your name and got confused.

Vote: Piplup

Unvote right now you idiot.

[Piplup]

Oh, nvm.

[Piplup]

So it's one of {riku, Hiraki}

[Piplup]

Good morning Piplup.

Hi.

Riku doesn't make sense.

Why not? I mean fmpov, it has to be either you or riku, and it could easily be either one of you...

[Piplup]

Ah, alrighty. I didn't doubt the claim. I kind of saw Piplup on the bottom and agreed with it. Then saw your name and got confused.

Vote: Piplup

Unvote right now you idiot.

This also implies that Piplup knows I'm town.

Um...no it doesn't?

[Piplup]

I just ISO'd both, and I'm leaning riku is last scum. Hiraki hard pushed implosion the whole game, while Prism/riku voted implosion but ultimately that gave way to a town read before the replace out.

Prism also called the CoA wagon a "lurker lynch" and stated that CoA needed to replace out if not active. That comes across as an appeal to a scum buddy to step up or get out so that someone else can.

I don't want to take away from what MoI said about Hiraki not really pushing implosion, but I think he did.

[Piplup]

Also, I think Hiraki was in a better position on Cheeky's lynch.

[Piplup]

Sorry you're bad at reading me. When I flip town, who are you going to go with next?

[Piplup]

Why Hiraki over riku?

[Piplup]

Given my mindset at the time, I would have said that to anyone because I'm not confident on my read on anyone (except the masons).

[Piplup]

Whatever man. I came into today and saw "with 5 left alive it's 3 to lynch" and thought we were in LyLo. Then realized we were down to one scum left. You can read that as fake if you want to, but it's not, and if you flip me you will see it. Btw...calling things 'classic scum' is just dumb imo. If something is such a good scum tell, why would scum do it?

I'm not going to fight this since if riku is scum, there's already 2 town willing to lynch me.

Probably should vote you tomorrow given what MoI said and this disgusting push on me, though I think it's riku.

[Piplup]

Sure. I'll ignore statements and questions towards or about me. That should help.

[Piplup]

I mean, it's not really a question when you've just admitted there will be a tomorrow if you lynch me or riku.

Are you right in the head? That statement was made with the specific assumption that I would be lynched today...

I'm not going to fight this since if riku is scum, there's already 2 town willing to lynch me.

[Piplup]

Or rather, to be more precise to your post, that there will be a tomorrow if you lynch riku.

Again, are you right in the head? I have been more scumreading riku.

Less so now.

[Piplup]

tf?

Ok...apparently I need to put together the entire sentance..."Town should probably vote you tomorrow (as Saudade said, and I disagreed with) given what MoI said and your disgusting push on me, despite the fact that (at that moment) I think scum is riku."

Right, which is why you said "vote you tomorrow" because you were going to be lynched today and therefore you would have a vote tomorrow.

This doesn't even make sense. Like...logically, I don't see how you think this makes sense. If this statement was made on the predication of my lynch today, how could I think that I would have a vote tomorrow? It's not a subtle jab. It's a straight out statement of concern.

[Piplup]

Hiraki, how do hypothetical's make it that Piplup is admitting such a thing?

To general for me to answer or understand.

Right, which is why you said "vote you tomorrow" because you were going to be lynched today and therefore you would have a vote tomorrow.

This doesn't even make sense. Like...logically, I don't see how you think this makes sense. If this statement was made on the predication of my lynch today, how could I think that I would have a vote tomorrow? It's not a subtle jab. It's a straight out statement of concern.

[Piplup]

Piplup, how did you 'mistakenly' think we were in LyLo?

Hiraki, how do hypothetical's make it that Piplup is admitting such a thing?

5 with 3 to lynch is a standard LyLo situation with 2 scum. I had a gut reaction at reading that before remembering we had lynched 2 scum.

Take it or leave it.

[Piplup]

Right...it doesn't make sense...that's the point?

My point is your statement doesn't make sense given my statement was predicated on my lynch. Which I have now said at least twice.

wtf dude?

[Piplup]

VOTE: Hiraki

[Piplup]

If you think Piplup is actually saying the things he says after he changes them

Point out specifically what I changed.

[Piplup]

It was implied given there was no subject in the original and was predicated on my lynch...wtf?

Did you think I mean that "Scum should probably vote you tomorrow after I'm lynched?"

[Piplup]

Are you ESL?

[Piplup]

It's not an insult. It would help me understand why you didn't understand an implied subject.

[Piplup]

Misrep:

I'm not going to fight this since if riku is scum, there's already 2 town willing to lynch me.

[Piplup]

Each phrase should have that as the preceding statement.

[Piplup]

I'm going to assume at this point you are not ESL and you are intentionally trying to misrepresent my statement.

Hiraki is last scum.

flip me today, lynch him tomorrow.

[Piplup]

(The town) Probably should vote you tomorrow given what MoI said and this disgusting push on me, though I think it's riku.

Also...you should use my entire statement.

Ok...apparently I need to put together the entire sentance..."Town should probably vote you tomorrow (as Saudade said, and I disagreed with) given what MoI said and your disgusting push on me, despite the fact that (at that moment) I think scum is riku."

[Piplup]

Note that the second doesn't even roll off the tongue because it doesn't sound right. It would be better phrased as The town should probably vote you tomorrow.

Wait..what? I did say that town should probably vote you tomorrow.

[Piplup]

What? I didn't change anything.

[Piplup]

And it was a legit question to ascertain you understanding of the language asshole.

[Piplup]

Yeah. It was.

[Piplup]

You lack of understanding implied subjects was the reason why. You are either scum, or don't have a foundational knowledge of it.

[Piplup]

Wait..what? I did say that town should probably vote you tomorrow.

Probably should vote you tomorrow given what MoI said and this disgusting push on me, though I think it's riku.

No, you didn't.

Stop misquoting me.

My quote above came after a concession of my lynch today. I then said that town (Saud/Stefan/riku) should vote you tomorrow even though I was initially scum reading riku at the time of the post.

What is hard to understand about that?

[Piplup]

Again, do you understand implied subjects?

[Piplup]

Probably done with this site after this anyway, but you should google implied subjects for your own betterment.

[Piplup]

VOTE: riku

[Piplup]

Scum won.

Good job. Glad you took your time, asked questions, and made a decisive vote.

[Piplup]

I'm really miffed that Hiraki made such a horrid push on me as town.

I'm also a bit miffed at Saud for not even trying to play this day phase.

In the end, just a game though. Thanks for taking over Nexus.