Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831


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Post Post #625 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 4:21 am

Post by Ginngie »

In post 623, Tammy wrote:Do you have experience with either him or Lycanfire?
Tywin has always been a wall poster and I have a hard time caring about wall posters that are not mastina. What I do know is I agree with what you're saying about the general scummy-vibe because my past experience was with him in real folks blues 2 as scumbuds together.


Lycan I've had a couple of games and seen him play one in which I modded.

One thing I've noted in Lycan's scum play is that he can actually plan a lot and decide what moves to make in his head (via discussing it within a PT), but following through with his plan doesn't really happen. He kinda just sits there in the middle of the river as things go past him.

Also I remember Lycan as town being blunt as hell and I town read him for his honesty before. I don't remember reading lycan's post this game because I got bored reading the slog of wall posts past page 12 but I can ISO
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Post Post #626 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 4:26 am

Post by Ginngie »

I'm digging Lycan for town tbh

Also Hito, word of advice that I've learned from Nacho.

If you don't know where to put your vote, put it on town.

One thing I'm currently struggling with regarding actual voting is this axel-roflcopter situation.

While I do agree with what rofl is saying when I discussed his issues with axel, I do have this suspicions of rofl and I'm having trouble putting my full faith into his case because of that.
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Post Post #627 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 4:50 am

Post by Tammy »

In post 624, Eddie Cane wrote:
In post 397, Eddie Cane wrote:However, what does point to town is a secret general tell I've used Elli's program to test that's been pretty effective in the past.
this doesnt mean I have a tywin tell, it's a general tell that kind of applies to tywin but Lycan is not being town so meh.

what are your thoughts on roflcopter tammy?
Ah okay.

roflcopter is someone I want to look at this afternoon as well. It's been a long time since I've played with rofl, but my memory of him is a player that relies on gut a lot, but that's pretty much it. I don't think he liked playing scum much iirc. So his pop ins every now and then just felt like rofl being rofl, but now he's put out an actual case and seeing what I think of that case and him will take me some time to go back and forth and look at context.

One thing I did realize the other day is that I've thought most people seem fine. I think the only people I haven't said are fine are insanity, tywin, pine, pj and kmd. I think. So I need to get a better handle on how I actually feel about people.

One thing I've been rolling around are people like rofl or pine who've just been Tywin's town or is fine when like he just reads so scummy. And I'm not typically a person who thinks you have to see exactly what I'm seeing, so it's not that, but it just feels weird. It's hard to determine what any of that could mean, if anything, until we have a flip or two there but it's on my mind right now.
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Post Post #628 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 4:52 am

Post by Tammy »

In post 626, Ginngie wrote:I'm digging Lycan for town tbh

Also Hito, word of advice that I've learned from Nacho.

If you don't know where to put your vote, put it on town.
Why are you reading Lycan town?

I've never heard nacho say that before, heh.
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Post Post #629 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 5:38 am

Post by Old Man »

In post 623, Tammy wrote: Old Man - I don't think that Magna is tunneling on you; he's not trying to lynch you today and he's got other suspects. He's pointing out stuff he thinks is still suspicious because if he's town he doesn't believe your claim, if he's scum he's trying to look like he doesn't believe your claim. But see the thing is, if you are telling the truth and you are a day two IC, none of that matters because you have an ace in the whole. You're going to be confirmed town tomorrow and you can virtual middle finger the entire game who suspected you. So here's what I did when I was an IC once. I wasn't confirmed yet and could pop it at any time, but I was trying to hold off because I wanted to live awhile. But there was a player who thought every one of my posts was scummy or fake or something; I just laughed internally because they were wasting their time. (I also believe I trolled them a bit but I don't recommend that here.) Have you worked on getting your thoughts together on KMD or fire bringer? Maybe try to ignore Magna and focus elsewhere? When I get so irritated with a player I'm getting distracted, I try to stop reading their posts and work out my thoughts on other people.
I know this. I have no intent to "virtual middle finger" anybody else in the game because ironically only a select minority suspects me. I also do not require the crutch of an IC-role to "virtual middle finger" anyone, in past games it was child's play to do so after catching the scum by a significant margin compared to those foolish enough to draw my ire to the point where I would even consider the idea of performing the gesture [of a virtual middle finger].

I am perfectly capable of ignoring Magna and have already proceeded to do so recently. This is why I have focused my efforts to respond to other players such as yourself instead. It is only a pity because Magna's strengths in this game is he is active and responsive - which is a big plus compared to roflcopter, CoolDog, etc who are barely present - yet most of his posts contain all this noise on tunnelling on me.

Also I am getting bored because I want Tywin/Lycan to flip but certain players are either stalling the day to its maximum one-month deadline or are trying to form counterwagons, which I will proceed to prosecute tomorrow after Lycan's alignment is revealed.
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Post Post #630 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 6:23 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 629, Old Man wrote:I know this. I have no intent to "virtual middle finger" anybody else in the game because ironically only a select minority suspects me.

Also I am getting bored because I want Tywin/Lycan to flip but certain players are either stalling the day to its maximum one-month deadline or are trying to form counterwagons, which I will proceed to prosecute tomorrow after Lycan's alignment is revealed.
Blah blah blah tunnelling ... here's two things from his above post that I absolutely don't want lost in the discussion.

1. If he was only suspected by a "select minority" as he claims why did he claim Innocent Child in the first place in the manner he did?
2. The second part of this is written from the standpoint of someone who absolutely thinks he'll be alive tomorrow. I have other thoughts about him pre-emptively talking about prosecuting those not voting Lycan when he as Town should not be 100% sure but the point I am making is the following - why does someone who claims to be so lightly suspected, who is pushing on what they claim is a scum lynch and have claimed the ability to absolutely Town confirm themselves expect to live til Day 2?
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Post Post #631 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 6:28 am

Post by Old Man »

In post 630, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 629, Old Man wrote:I know this. I have no intent to "virtual middle finger" anybody else in the game because ironically only a select minority suspects me.

Also I am getting bored because I want Tywin/Lycan to flip but certain players are either stalling the day to its maximum one-month deadline or are trying to form counterwagons, which I will proceed to prosecute tomorrow after Lycan's alignment is revealed.
Blah blah blah tunnelling ... here's two things from his above post that I absolutely don't want lost in the discussion.

1. If he was only suspected by a "select minority" as he claims why did he claim Innocent Child in the first place in the manner he did?
2. The second part of this is written from the standpoint of someone who absolutely thinks he'll be alive tomorrow. I have other thoughts about him pre-emptively talking about prosecuting those not voting Lycan when he as Town should not be 100% sure but the point I am making is the following - why does someone who claims to be so lightly suspected, who is pushing on what they claim is a scum lynch and have claimed the ability to absolutely Town confirm themselves expect to live til Day 2?
Because protectives exist. Use your brain.
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Post Post #632 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 6:38 am

Post by roflcopter »

i completely do not care what tywin/lycan are even posting they could have posted a million ascii dicks and it would still be a day one mislynch wagon
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Post Post #633 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 6:39 am

Post by roflcopter »

i'm so excited for old man to "refuse" to pop the ic tomorrow so we can hang him
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Post Post #634 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 6:50 am

Post by roflcopter »

tammy post : tywin is someone who is always generically scummy

tammy post : it is so weird that rofl doesn't see tywin as scummy like i do

^ reason number 9000 why i don't care

also yeah tammy i totally do play by gut and usually don't even bother trying to put a case into words but y'all kept whining for me to do it and i've been in hibernation for so long that i guess i've lost my shine and people don't just sheep me anymore
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Post Post #635 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 6:52 am

Post by roflcopter »

like seriously i really want to trust my tammy townread but ffs stop pushing what you basically just admitted is a village idiot lynch

"this guy always looks scummy perfect day one lynch amiright?"
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Post Post #636 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 7:26 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Pine
– Sorry to see you go but I understand with Pinecone and everything why you might not be able to be engaged.

Tammy
– Thanks for the feedback on Fire. My question is this – if you are caught up and think Lycan is scum why is your vote still on Eddie?

Still have to get to that Axel re-read I promised Rofl and will try to get that done while I have time after this response.

Also Rofl is still Town and reaffirms that for me. And Eddie’s vote for him at stinks.

--
In post 604, Eddie Cane wrote:hort version: I know its part of mafia, but I get a little stressed when I get pushed/cased and a lot more so when its in a game I think I could realistically be mislynched in.
I get more stressed when its not a good case. I get even more stressed when the case is personally insulting and rehashing things we've been through over and over.
He posted that right before work, and kind of ruined my shift because being in a shit mood and stressed while you're bartending is not a good place to be.
Nothing personal Eddie but I have a hard time believing this and at the same time buying in to your self-provided stance that you are one of the best players of your generation on site.

Also the bolded I can’t connect with at all as coming from Town. I relish having scum make garbage cases against me as Town as it makes my job that much easier in finding and hanging them. Not stressed. And the repetition should work on similar lines because Appeal to Repetition is a thing. And hell even if you think PJ’s slot is bad Town a garbage case isn’t going to move the meter without scum having to get their hands very dirty to push a mislynch behind it.

--
In post 606, Ginngie wrote:Okay after reading what I believe to be a really damn good point by roflcopter

(just read their latest post regarding axel's duality situation of pushing one thing but voting the other.

It just fits of pushing mislynches while not being on the wagon directly so you don't get blamed for it type of way.)

I really don't get why you'd say this as well?

There's like 12 days left of deadline?

You're trying to shoot down a wagon with a concern for time when there is no concern for time and I'm reading it as a defense of axel without actually defending him.
Are you actually caught up? Because either you have an absolute lack of grasp on the game-state if you are caught up or you actually need to read. Axel isn’t getting lynched without the equivalent of him claiming scum or a daycop claim. There isn’t any momentum there. 12 days at the pace of a Geriatric game is much shorter than you seem to be hinting here.

What was your point here? I’m scum defending my partner Axel? If so why isn’t your vote on one of us instead of OldMan? Because regardless of how little you believe his claim or think he’s scum there is 0% chance he’s lynched as that would be bad Town play either way.
In post 626, Ginngie wrote:Also Hito, word of advice that I've learned from Nacho.

If you don't know where to put your vote, put it on town.
Yeah Tammy already got to this (and if anyone knows Nacho it is her) but I very, very much doubt this is something Nacho taught you.
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Post Post #637 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 8:03 am

Post by Pine »

Mod: I may stay after all. My game load has been reduced in the last few days, and I am starting to remember why I wanted to play this game.


Magna, where should my vote be?
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Post Post #638 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 8:04 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So with a completely fresh set of eyes I’m looking at Axel’s ISO –

His progression at the start of the game is pretty Null to me. I mean we’ve been over confirm-gate to death but I don’t necessarily see anything that pushes me either way about his posts around that. In fact his unwillingness to put Eddie at L-2 that early isn’t scummy at all. Worst that can be said is that the point he makes in about not knowing how Eddie confirmed is questionable since it really was nothing other than RVS warlgebargle in the first place that he didn’t confirm in thread.

There is a bunch of stuff in I agree with and can see from a Town perspective. And I still don’t see a reason to scum read .

And I agree with his thoughts at re: OldMan backpedaling on the notion that Eddie was a scum-driven wagon.

Now is the first post where I’m seeing something that smells of scum here and that is some Cogdis between the following …
In post 346, Axelrod wrote:He's not saying he had any actual suspicion of Eddie at all (unless he is saying that Magna's joke vote was an actual reason)
but he left his vote there until #192
(which was well after the wagon went away, and anything that he might have "gotten" from it was done.)
Bolded for emphasis – he’s dinging KMD for not moving his vote from RVS (in effect) fast enough when he’s just recently been defending his own “vote-parking” as not scummy and something that is, for lack of a better term, a “fake-news scumtell”.

Also not a fan of . I can see Town wanting to know why I have a Pine Town read when he’s apparently Axel’s top scum candidate but the point about me “not talking about Pine” feels a bit dirty when Axel himself has had little to nothing to say about Pine for some time either.

Finally two more general points – on ISO re-read I don’t have the same strength of feeling that this is Town scum-hunting. There seems to my eye to be a disproportionate amount of posts that are “defense of self / others (like Firebringer)” as opposed to pushing scum suspects. And I’ve seen multiple cases of Axel saying “I need to read said person” that have never materialized.

That combined with his calling Firebringer effectively “too scummy to be scum” and I don’t feel back giving Rofl my vote right now.

VOTE: Axel

Still feel KMD is scummy but getting no traction there.
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Post Post #639 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 8:06 am

Post by Pine »

Ok, we're coming around on Axel!scum. I can get behind this and catch up overnight.

VOTE: Axelrod
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

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Post Post #640 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 8:09 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 637, Pine wrote:Magna, where should my vote be?
We need to be moving towards a lynch. I mean there is time but this isn't a spam-fest game where people put 10 pages on in 3 hours and move their votes every 3 posts.

Look at Lycan / Hito / Axel for me and move wherever you feel is most likely to hit scum. I mean I think Hito is a bad, bad lynch but I think he's actually the leading wagon right now and I think consolidation will tell us something whenever we know more about the alignments of those involved.

Also I really want you to look at KMD separately but I know I'm not getting that lynch today.
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Post Post #641 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 8:10 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Damn it Pine trees are supposed to be inanimate objects and not stealthy ninjas ....

:P
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Post Post #642 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 8:12 am

Post by Pine »

I am very sneaky, sir.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

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Post Post #643 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 8:25 am

Post by CooLDoG »

In post 632, roflcopter wrote:i completely do not care what tywin/lycan are even posting they could have posted a million ascii dicks and it would still be a day one mislynch wagon
after a wank.
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Post Post #644 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 8:25 am

Post by CooLDoG »

hito should now consistently think that rofl is scum for his defense.
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Post Post #645 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 9:05 am

Post by Pine »

I could see Hito scum. He's been tonally off.
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Post Post #646 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 11:17 am

Post by CooLDoG »

at least for me, and I know I'm burning posts on non-walls here, but... reads as a player who both thinks day one matters a lot for the reads that you can get, but on the other hand is saying that we should just ring someone up for intel. This has been my major conflict all game. I have other scum reads that I have that I can't put the effort into building a case on at this moment, these are, actually rolf, for his low effort posting, pine for a stasis on my previous read, and kison for similar reasons to rolf. In a content heavy game like this I see scum trying to play on the lower level banter instead of getting caught in long-drawn-out arguments between wall posters.

So there you go, let's vote hito. Axle is a toss-up wall poster to me, half the shit he says I agree with, the other half I don't.
after a wank.
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Post Post #647 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 12:37 pm

Post by Eddie Cane »

vla I'll let you know in a few days if I'm siteflaking
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Post Post #648 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 1:11 pm

Post by Axelrod »

Well, I probably deserve this, as I can't seem to get motivated and have very little energy for this game. Just seems like there's always something else I'd rather be doing.

I have never replaced out of a game ever, though, so I don't imagine I'm going to start now. Maybe I'll get a second wind. Game is so dense though, makes re-reading take so much longer.
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Post Post #649 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2018 2:02 pm

Post by Axelrod »

So, as far as what rolf posted, like, I feel like I responded to him once, he completely ignored it and proceeded to say exactly the same things again. So that's annoying. I also get the sense he's the type who you can't exactly reason with, as he's going to just feel the way he feels. But I guess we shall see.

First time he says anything is #69, which is just a vote. Fine. I don't care that much he didn't say why.

Re-affirms the suspicion in #209, again without saying why.

Then there was #244 where he finally explained the vote - by citing something I did not do. :/
i particularly dislike where he implies that he'll just keep on tunneling on eddie and pine tomorrow pretty much regardless of what happens today
He does sort of correct himself in the next post, when he can't find my saying what he claims I had said, but then literally goes on to say "whatever" he's still scum anyway. Super.

He then asked me some questions directly for the first time, like he was trying to engage me. Which I responded to, in #273, to the sound of deafening silence.

Goes back to voting me in #573, and as far as I can tell, it's all about my "vote-parking." Like, is he seriously still voting for Pine, how scummy is that? but also accuses me of throwing "shade" on the side of select other wagons.

Then, his big "case." Which consists entirely of him pointing out where I expressed suspicions of Eddie early.

And, gee, yes, that happened. I had some early suspicion of Eddie, because of how he was posting. He glosses over my #125 where I explained more or less exactly what I was thinking at the time because it has too many words. He continues to characterize this as "shading" Eddie, as opposed to, what? Just expressing a suspicion?

And then he jumps to my #214 about KMD, and characterizes this as some kind of...flip? Because I'm now expressing suspicion of KMD for his Eddie vote. He has seemingly missed #202, where I started to come around on Eddie, and also seemingly missed the entire context of #214, where I had been specifically waiting to see how KMD responded to Eddie's accusation, and KMD's response was super lackluster.

He
really
doesn't like that I express suspicions of KMD and also Tywin while still voting for Pine. I've explained this too. I then gave more or less sequential reads on all of them (though, the Tywin one wasn't even a true read) just by way of explaining my current stances on people, but apparently this is more evidence to rolf, because...? Why am I explaining my suspicions of people I am not currently voting for?

Is that really it?

He asserts there has never been momentum against Pine, which I guess I would dispute. Plenty of people have expressed suspicion, though I certainly concede he's not been subject of a major wagon yet.

He then concludes by jumping through a somewhat twisted logical hoop to conclude that he people I have been "shading" (in this case KMD and Tywin, I have no idea what he thinks about Eddie) are Town, while the person I am
voting
(but not
pushing,
see) is my actual scumbuddy.

There is literally nothing to even respond to here, except to acknowledge that I have not been using my vote this game. I half wonder if I hadn't even voted at all if the entire case would evaporate in a puff of smoke, or if that would just then be it's own thing. Because it's scummy to express suspicion of people without voting for them (it's really not).

What about this are other people agreeing with?

I see where Magna has his own post. I'll try to respond to that tomorrow.

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