Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Ginngie]

So like

Subject: DBZA Mafia: Arrival to Namek (Mod Thread)

Does Lycan not understand the fact that literally almost everyone scum reads him?

just use this to go back and read the last couple pages of the mod thread, that was my train of thought regarding Lycan and latest experience I remember about him.

Subject: DBZA Mafia: Arrival to Namek (Mod Thread)

Scum literally did like jack shit this game so i dont feel the least bit bad. The only one that did anything was Lycan and he went down real quick.

and now I eat my own words lmfao

For reference: viewtopic.php?p=9152581&user_select%5B% ... 1#p9152581

Lycan's ISO above

Okay Lycan, can you not find the scum chat either? it's like vanished and I know I posted your role PMs in the scum chat for DBZA mafia.

If I could find that damn scum chat, one thing I'd be able to not is that Lycan can't play well under pressure.



The other point here is that people are talking about how he can produce content. The issue here is you're not looking at the type of content.

Even with Lycan being a couple footsteps away from death, he still has been able to analyze people and being up concerns and questions and the sort. In DBZ, the only content he can actually produce is flimsy mechanical talk. Nothing about actually what players are doing, let alone him also being under pressure.

The thing with Lycan is that he's playing the opposite of what I know of him in DBZ and he was scum in DBZ so I see town here.

Vote Count

(5) Lycanfire - hitogoroshi, Kison, insanity018, Old Man, Kmd4390
(3) Axelrod - roflcopter, ManaofIllusion, Pine
(2) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG, Firebringer
(2) Pine - Axelrod, Lycanfire
(1) Old Man - Ginngie
(1) roflcopter - Eddie Cane

not voting:

Tammy

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

I repeat. Deadline is in

6 days.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well time to dig back in. First I’m going to do some responses and then make a general “Thoughts on the game-state and my reads” post afterwards.

@Ginngie

– re 663 … if your intention is to ruin the work PJ did in getting a Town read for your slot please keep at it. Pro-Tip: Asking you questions isn’t a cardinal sin it is the crux of the game. And didn’t you just go off on OldMan for poking at you for changing a stance when you got more information? Yes, you did.. I also notice you dropped those supposedly important questions like a hot rock and never followed up when OldMan ignored them. Why is that?

--

I could see Hito scum. He's been tonally off.

Not that I’m a big believer in tone reading but can you go into how you think Hito’s tone is off?

--

I guess I would see it as scum if he thought in this player list playing up his emotions would get him town read, but I think he has to be aware it would be the opposite here so it's not a good scum strategy.

Here’s the thing – I do think it isn’t out of the realm of possibility for hypo-scum Eddie to look at the current playerlist and thinkg “AtE will net me Town reads”. Or at least draw more net Town reads than negative reactions. You are very in touch with emotional play and KMD has made it clear he gets that more than my more emotionally muted approach. And I think players like Fire, Lycan and Gin clearly might expect it from Eddie. So I’m not willing to not at least think about it.

(This is something that I want to look into Magna's games if I have the time and the inclination because I believe I have a memory of Magna working with people on reads, so if I am right I can put that point to rest.)

Ummm this is pretty awkward Tammy since Near Vanilla is a game and combined with Kids TV Characters Mafia why I feel pretty confident about being able to read your alignment.

--

That game was about two years ago so I don't remember much from it but I looked at your ISO and mine. Couldn't help but notice a couple of things. First, I didn't like your vote on Katsuki who was mislynched Day 1. Second, I had a weak town read on you Day 1 and even posted a reads list with you in about the same place I have you in this game. So the game you linked shows me reacting to you similarly to how I have here with the exception that we've interacted more this time around. And that difference is probably due to you scum reading me.

I also want to clarify because I think something is coming off wrong. I don't think you are "bad town". That's not at all what I've been saying even if Old Man sees some of what I see and comes to that conclusion. You just seem to believe in different tells than I do. Hitos post I think pinpointed that in a way that I haven't been able to verbalize myself even though I was kind of thinking along those lines already.

I don’t care that the game was “two years ago” … it was the last common game we have (I believe unless you have alts running around I am unaware of in which case BOOOOO … ). And while your response here is nice and dandy you are doing your best to backtrack or avoid the issue I have … that you’ve been peddling a narrative that I attack poor play not scum play. That’s crystal clear the stance you were running with ( I can quote the posts if necessary) and when I’ve called you on it I see things like the second paragraph. I’ll grant you its possible you are Town trying to back off statements that might not have been fully actualized or properly parsed by me. But I also can see the possibility of scum motivation I’ve already discussed to death.

I still don’t like your Town reads that I don’t think are warranted. Firebringer for example – I don’t think there is anything in his ISO that warrants Town reading that slot from a the perspective of an uninformed Town player. Yet you just confirmed you have a soft Town read on the slot. Why?

Also if the Lycan slot is Town I pretty much think 569 should not be overlooked.

--

That's the second time I've seen you make this type of post. The other was to me about rofl earlier 296. Ironically, Axelrod wagon has now grown and you are on it.

Seeing that there is plenty of time until deadline,

why does it bother you if people talk about scumreads that are not imminently likely to be lynched?

Hmmm. This is bad. Are you purposefully trying to state a position that I’m not taking with the bolded? Because that’s actually the opposite of my stance. In fact in the very quote you are using I specifically told ROFL “feel free to continue your push”. Asking him for other reads is not telling him not to push on Axel.

In fact you seem to be the one bothered by talking about scumreads not in immediate peril given you questioned why I’m pointing out scummy play from OldMan.



--

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah ... I'm tired so no more tonight. I do want to remind myself to get into Axel's response to my re-read. So self ... remember to do that.

[Ginngie]

@Ginngie – re 663 … if your intention is to ruin the work PJ did in getting a Town read for your slot please keep at it. Pro-Tip: Asking you questions isn’t a cardinal sin it is the crux of the game. And didn’t you just go off on OldMan for poking at you for changing a stance when you got more information? Yes, you did.. I also notice you dropped those supposedly important questions like a hot rock and never followed up when OldMan ignored them. Why is that?

No.

It annoyed me that you'd shit on something I tried to support and you go fuck you thats not happening

and then proceed to go, oh well yeah lets do it.

Maybe next time you decide to do something like re-read Axel, maybe do that before you jump the gun.

The main difference here, my reading was first time through, and I didn't have information that would be read later on in the game.

You arbitrarily decided to go review Axel and then change your mind.

I'm cool with you voting Axel just don't pull that shit again.


As for forgetting about questions I asked, I think I can answer that one. It's because I forgot about those questions.

Am I allowed to forget things or what

[roflcopter]

no we all must have perfect recall duh

especially you

this post brought to you by sarcasm i can't remember a damn thing

[roflcopter]

oh i remember one thing now

more axel votes please!!!

[roflcopter]

before you all go requoting whatever i haven't answered just stop and don't

[roflcopter]

re: some question that was asked about my scumreads or something, well of course i'm probably not four for four... but if anyone was gonna be four for four on day one it would be me, rofl "modesty" copter, esq

[Tammy]

(This is something that I want to look into Magna's games if I have the time and the inclination because I believe I have a memory of Magna working with people on reads, so if I am right I can put that point to rest.)

Ummm this is pretty awkward Tammy since Near Vanilla is a game and combined with Kids TV Characters Mafia why I feel pretty confident about being able to read your alignment.

Getting ready for bed, so I'll respond to whatever else tomorrow, but real quick. Maybe I wasn't clear what I was referring to. Fire bringer claims the reason you are scum is because you don't work with people or outsource reads. I believe that's wrong because I have a memory of you working with people for reads, but it's not a memory I can readily recall for verification purposes. I can't put the point to rest and say hey fire bringer you're wrong on that point when all I have is a vague memory.

Bed time.

[Tammy]

Whoops the above post was my response to Magna from his 701.

Fixed - Korts.

[roflcopter]

i went to a very prestigious gutlaw school i am a barrister and i wear my powdered scumhunting wig it is stiff and quite dashing if you must know

[roflcopter]

tammy interrupting my post spree very rude

[roflcopter]

when i first saw the geriatric thread i thought we'd be post limited to ten posts per game day who's ready for that game i know i am

[Ginngie]

Alright, ya know what, let's just move on from that whole thing. It's bad for game health and it'll end up with us just bitching at each other.

[Pine]

@MoI: Ehhh, not really. I'm calling it 'tone' instead of 'gut' because they're basically the same thing, but people respond better to 'tone'.

[insanity018]

@Ginngie, Alright, I see what you mean about Lycanfire's style being different as scum in that game. Do you have any experience with him as town?

That's the second time I've seen you make this type of post. The other was to me about rofl earlier 296. Ironically, Axelrod wagon has now grown and you are on it.

Seeing that there is plenty of time until deadline,

why does it bother you if people talk about scumreads that are not imminently likely to be lynched?

Hmmm. This is bad. Are you purposefully trying to state a position that I’m not taking with the bolded? Because that’s actually the opposite of my stance. In fact in the very quote you are using I specifically told ROFL “feel free to continue your push”. Asking him for other reads is not telling him not to push on Axel.

In fact you seem to be the one bothered by talking about scumreads not in immediate peril given you questioned why I’m pointing out scummy play from OldMan.



--

Spoiler: Magna's posts

Then vote him and get some momentum to that wagon. Your Rofl suspicions are noted but that wagon isn’t going anywhere IMO.

Rofl I get you solidly scum read Axel and are giving real effort to move votes there. But I don't see that happening at this juncture.

So feel free to continue your push but anyone else you feel is worth a vote that you'd be willing to back as we get closer to deadline.

In the first, you ask me to stop pushing roflcoptor and vote KMD instead.

In the second, you impliedly want roflcoptor to talk about or move to other reads that may be backable to lynch closer to deadline.

This would suggest that you would rather people talk about or be on lynches that currently look more likely to happen.

You're annoyed that I may have misrepresented you, so why are you trying to misrepresent me? I've said that it's rather pointless to talk about why Old Man might be scum

since his claim makes him possibly confirmable tomorrow

. This is entirely separate to talking about scumreads that there is currently little appetite to lynch.

[Ginngie]

@Ginngie, Alright, I see what you mean about Lycanfire's style being different as scum in that game. Do you have any experience with him as town?

yeah restrictive mafia

viewtopic.php?p=9149230&user_select%5B% ... 1#p9149230

He was town that game

The caveat to that data sample is mainly that it's bloody short.

The one thing you could still take away is that it does still show that he sticks to mafia alignment hunting questioning.


So yeah, still small sample of town game, but it still holds the water of what I'm trying to tell ya'll.

[Old Man]

Will post tomorrow

[hitogoroshi]

Lycan

, what exactly is your catchup process? It looks like you're still far back because all of the post numbers you cite are pretty low. I can understand checking the current thread for questions and then going back, but why on earth would you spend so much time explicating your read on Axel based on your limited context? I mean, wouldn't that be pretty wasted effort if in post 300 or whatever Axel dropped some giant scum tell? It's the same thing with your Pine/chamber theory - you're spending a lot of time pushing it to us in the thread

currently

, whereas I would think that it's a more productive use of time to do "part 2" of the catchup instead of looping back to defend "part 1".

Prodge.
not playing this game right now.

I support the votes on hito.

reads havent changed

gentle reminder that Firebringer suspects me for thinking he'd be a fine policy lynch Though I guess it's kind of admirable that he responded to the accusation of "you can't just sheep one player explicitly against all of your stated reads" by just not reading anyone's posts, making it unimpeachable that he's not blind sheeping anymore. got me there buddy

My read is that he's tunneling hard while not being at all interested in actually engaging me. That's sort of surface scummy, but it's something Town can also do, particularly if they're otherwise disengaged from the game. Or just like to go by their "gut." Which it also feels like he has been and could be doing. So, he's probably like "bottom half" in terms of people I like, but not "bottom three." What's frustrating is him just saying "lynch Axel" "Lynch Axel" for the same (non) reasons, and then blithely ignoring when I respond to him. That's going to put me on tilt as much as anything.

Axel

: You seem to mention that vote immobility is something only rofl would find scummy, but it's the same thing I was after in 541. I'll re-post:

It's one thing to be uncertain enough that you're not taking a strong stance D1. That happens sometimes. But you're ALSO not use your vote as a tool to pressure, build consensus, etc. You're just hanging out on Pine waiting for - what? Someone else to take up the case you yourself are not "gung-ho" about, gather up a bloc, and take it home? Because otherwise, what is your vote doing? In preview-edit I can actually say the same thing about Eddie 540 - I don't like otherwise-engaged players using a long time until deadline as an excuse to cast these dead votes, because just punting until deadline scramble lowers the useful information we get throughout the day and lets people do deadline flops with these low-accountabiltiy asterisks of "well gee, I don't like any of these options, it's a real darn tootin shame that none of the options I like are on the table".

Or maybe to phrase it otherwise, I think it's the goal of town to ensure the lynch is on scum and that they're on it. Would you agree?

[hitogoroshi]

Also, Axel 649 doesn't seem like a post directed at someone who he has on "bottom half".

So, as far as what rolf posted, like, I feel like I responded to him once, he completely ignored it and proceeded to say exactly the same things again. So that's annoying. I also get the sense he's the type who you can't exactly reason with, as he's going to just feel the way he feels. But I guess we shall see.

...

What about this are other people agreeing with?

top bit seems to be assuming he's town, bottom bit just seems weird that his response is "why does anyone else agree with this?" without imputing any value judgement about rofl himself

[MagnaofIllusion]

In the first, you ask me to stop pushing roflcoptor and vote KMD instead.

In the second, you impliedly want roflcoptor to talk about or

move to other reads

that may be backable to lynch closer to deadline.

This would suggest that you would rather people talk about or be on lynches that currently look more likely to happen.

You're annoyed that I may have misrepresented you, so why are you trying to misrepresent me? I've said that it's rather pointless to talk about why Old Man might be scum since his claim makes him possibly confirmable tomorrow. This is entirely separate to talking about scumreads that there is currently little appetite to lynch.

First let's talk about the bolded which is incorrect. I never in any way asked ROFL to stop pushing Axel. You are trying to slide that into my narrative when AGAIN I told him to keep pushing there if he wants but to talk about other suspicions given he was a sole vote on Axel at the time. In fact the only reason there is anyone else on Axel right now is that I did a re-read and feel good enough about my Town read on ROFL that I could move away from KMD (who was getting no traction) to consolidate on someone with ROFL. No reason at all not to get a Town read to talk about other scum reads even if they have a strong read they want to push.

I've been waiting for people to attack me on still pushing OldMan looking to see if I could get scum to try to portray that as scummy. And here you are.

As to telling you to stop pushing ROFL - he's a Town read. It doesn't make any sense for me not try to work to get a wagon on my Town reads especially if it means getting Null / Scum reads away from pushing Town reads. And that you are somehow softly trying to say that's scummy is in itself scummy.

Particularly I don't care what you think is pointless (especially since you are in my scum pool) regarding OldMan. I'm going to push my scum reads.

In fact I've been back-pocketing this but your reaction is pretty much what I expect from scum (and why ROFL is solid Town for me) - if OldMan is indeed an IC scum knows he's not scum and thus would be much more likely to take the stance of "Oh, he's going to confirm himself, best way to look Pro-Town is to avoid suspecting him". Town on the other hand who had previously suspect him have reason to doubt the claim ... its part of being uninformed Town who can't take a claim made under suspect circumstances at face value and thus keep pushing.

[Korts]

Vote Count

(5) Lycanfire - hitogoroshi, Kison, insanity018, Old Man, Kmd4390
(3) Axelrod - roflcopter, ManaofIllusion, Pine
(2) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG, Firebringer
(2) Pine - Axelrod, Lycanfire
(1) Old Man - Ginngie
(1) roflcopter - Eddie Cane

not voting:

Tammy

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

I repeat. Deadline is in

6 days.

[Ginngie]

VOTE: Axel

[Axelrod]

Axel

: You seem to mention that vote immobility is something only rofl would find scummy, but it's the same thing I was after in 541.

I do? I don't think I said that. I did say I don't understand why anyone who is actually reading his posts (and mine) would be agreeing with him, and I guess his main thing is me being "vote-parked" but I'm not saying he's the only one who doesn't/didn't like that. Clearly he's not the only one.

Maybe I'm saying that all you people who think it's some kind of brilliant scum tell are...just not correct. Discussion for after game/Mafia theory perhaps.

Also, Axel 649 doesn't seem like a post directed at someone who he has on "bottom half".
...
top bit seems to be assuming he's town, bottom bit just seems weird that his response is "why does anyone else agree with this?" without imputing any value judgement about rofl himself

Not assuming he's town at all, but besides latching onto me for "reasons", he's not done much else I remember this game.

And at risk of giving people new and interesting reasons to vote me, here's where I am on everyone, with the rather large caveat that a lot of this is based on early game stuff when I was a bit more active and there are a bunch of people I've only got vague feelings about. These are pretty rough orders, especially within groups.

The most Townish:

CooLDoG (I'm currently buying PGO, and that means Town. I feel like that is not a gambit that scum would be likely to make in their first post of the game. I mean it's possible, but not

likely

.)
Eddie Cane (I am currently buying what he is selling. If he's scum he's got some very big *****
Old Man (Even aside from IC claim, and annoying posting style, he's been all right. Rather large caveat: if he doesn't put up with the Innocent Child thing first thing tomorrow, he's gone)
Tammy

Morality chamber

(Tammy has almost completely redeemed the Chamber slot for me. I really like how she's posting).
insanity018 (asking reasonable questions. I "get" most everything he says, even if not always agreeing 100%. I feel he's a little like me, maybe. With a slightly less wordy style.)
hitogoroshi (similar to Insanity. I like what seems to be a pretty logical approach. Maybe trying to be a little too...tricky?)

The I do not knows:

MagnaofIllusion (Asking questions. Scum-hunting. Logical, which is all good. Except when he comes to these conclusions that do not seem to follow. And following rolf because he has a Town read on him is completely barf. yeah, yeah, he came up with his own reasons too! which were pretty trivial. Player I am most paranoid about.)
Firebringer (not doing anything especially Townish, but doing it defiantly? Hard to quantify, but not acting like I feel a scum would be acting)
roflcopter (my best friend)
Kison (one of the most under-the-radar for me atm. I remember very little about what he's done this game.)

The most worrisome:

Ginngie

petroleumjelly

(PJ wasn't great this game. Then he quit. I have barely read anything Ginngie has posted. What I remember did not blow me away me with it's Townieness.)
Kmd4390 (I think I already talked about him. It feels like he's been somewhat better more recently?)
Lycanfire

Tywin Lannister

(Lycanfire is another player I have barely read since he came in. Tywin wasn't great though).
Pine (my second best friend. How's the Pinecone?)

When/if I get the time/energy. I'll do some more comprehensive reads. But those are always more useful after some flips have happened. I feel I'm generally fumbling around in the dark until then.

[roflcopter]

ily2 axel <3

kison, hito, hurry up and get on this wagon with me