Mini 2014: Succinct Mafia (Over)

[Wisdom]

I assume you havent played with him before?

[ArcAngel9]

I don't think ArcAngel had sufficient reasoning to cast a vote of that nature. Do you?

I do. He called on me for trying to understand rules. How is that AI?

Don't assume why I vote. I voted because I didn't like Arch's vote. He had the ability to see past what someone he thought was scum did, and then did it himself.

If I wanted to sheep Wisdom, I would've said something. Instead, I voted after his explanations.

Firstly, Don't address me "He", I would appreciate if you keep my gender "She".
I still fail to see your reason to think why vote on Wisdom was bad.

VOTE: Hiraki

im town and so is arc most likely

I agree this 100%. Good to see you as town Wis

His posts have explained his thought process behind his Arc vote so I can buy that it wasn't just a sheep.

Really? So got shifted so easily!!

[LuckyOtter]

No. I'm not a huge fan of the idea of relying on meta unless it reveals something super obvious. But I looked at your previous game together, and I understand why you asked this. Yes I see a similar play style in the game you played together, which resulted in a mislynch, but in other games in which Eevee was town I see a similar posting style (short and sparse posts), but the questioning is at least more pointed. All of this to say that I don't read anything from Eevee's meta that is a huge red flag to me, so I don't feel inclined to let it influence me too much here, and I'm not about to ask Eevee or anyone to defend their meta play style(s).

So does Eevee just get a free pass from you, Wisdom? Do you read him as genuinely trying to interact with others (see posts 115 and 119) to get information?

[Wisdom]

Not a pass, but im not interested in your push there for now as your issues with him are mostly playstyle related

[EeveeLution Army]

Arc
1) out of curiousity whats your first language than?
2) do you townread or find wisdom null? Im bad at recognizing sarcasm
3) ....why....exactly are you on hiraki?

[Hiraki]

I do. He called on me for trying to understand rules. How is that AI?

This isn't actually what happened.

[havingfitz]

What NAI things are my scumleans based on wrt you and Eevee?

These:

@Eevee, wrt 77...as much as you value your vote if you WERE to vote it would be me, the person who's possibly posted the least?  You've no suspicions up to this point from what content there is from others?

You having posted the least doesn't mean Eevee is not allowed to scumread you more than people who have posted more. This is no basis for a scumlean.

For page 2 of game content I would argue that scumleans aren't going to be based on extremely convincing evidence.  The fact Eevee would be more inclined to place a vote on someone who only had 1 RVS post at that point in the game over any of the players who had generated, or had generated towards them, a fair amount of content seemed suspect imo and evasive of taking a stand.  We had had 2 or 3 wagons run up to 3 votes on them by this time and no comment on those at all.  If Eevee had said anything to indicate a potential vote on me would have been for ex.  pressure to engage…I would not have thought twice about it.  She did not however hence the suspicion.

@Wis, wrt 82...do you ever say you're town when you're scum?  If fluffing is NAI why the Koki vote?

Me saying I am town is meaningless and thus nai. Me voting Kokichi can be for any number of reasons regardless of what I think of his fluff. This is no basis for a scumlean.

I’m not suspicious of you for saying you were town.  My point there was to illustrate how useless your comment was.  Which was the only value of my question...

What I do find suspect is that you vote Koki for no other apparent or stated iirc reason than fluff posting which you yourself admit is NAI for him.

So you suspect me for casting suspicions for NAI observations (which I do not totally agree with) while at the same time voting someone for…….admitted NAI reasons.    That to me is suspect.

Early sl's: Mom, Eevee and Wis.

So basicallyyyyy

Scum is doing a hell of alot of unwarranted theatre game start. Got it!

The interactions among you three are minimal. Sure, they don't read very svs, but it's not impossible. More importantly, this is a really bad reason to try to discredit reads, it seems to me. Just because they don't all seem to work together doesn't mean that all the reads are bad.

That said, I don't like HF's vote on momrangal either. He bases it on an innocuous reaction and what I interpreted to be a RVS vote on wisdom. Meanwhile, he actually has a valid concern about Eevee--not the point about having a vote on the person who posted the least, but the point about not offering any other suspicions concerning other players. So HF, why is this less worthy of a vote than your vote based on momrangal's very first post?

It’s less worthy because my Momrangal vote came with expressed reasons for the content within her post….Eevee hypothetical vote on me was for no stated reason.  Which I would argue no stated reason should have been secondary to the more-than-zero content others had been getting.

You say my suspicion towards Momrangal was for an innocuous comment.  Your opinion.  When I read it it struck me as fake….especially given the fact that almost 2 of those 3 pages were pre-game and didn’t count.  And then the thoughtful “Mmmm” pause before voting for Wisdom.

I’ll admit the reasons were gut feel and not an airtight case.  There was also an element of see how she reacts to the vote.  Which I think she has failed miserably at.  My weak vote on her which is generally being decried as for no good reasons gets a response of “scum doing unwarranted theater”(despite agreeing with at least one of my reads) and adhoming me with the “not surprised at bad reads from fitz” (paraphrasing) comment.  Neither of those reactions sits well with me and leads me to like my vote where it is

Lots of bad scum reads for bad reasons, especially the Mom vote.

Explain.

The mom scum read is for completely nai stuff.

The initial reason was for gut…and stays for reasons expressed to Otter above.

The Eevee read as well.

Opinion.  I explain it in more detail above.  I do not think my suspicion of Eevee is completely NAI.  Of my 3 scumreads the suspicions towards her are probably the weakest considering where they began and how she reacted.

Wis scum read I didn't even see reasoning for

His position of Koki fluff posting and fluff posting being NAI for Koki and voting Koki anyway.  For no other stated reasons as I recall. 

<<< Fixing quote tag. >>>

 

[Wisdom]

bs
you're trying to make it appear like lack of reasons is scummy
you've played enough games to know people can be town and yet not explain a single thing they do

[havingfitz]

bs
you're trying to make it appear like lack of reasons is scummy
you've played enough games to know people can be town and yet not explain a single thing they do

No BS. Stop talking out your ass and misrepping me.

Where do I say lack of reasons is scummy?

Do I go around scumreading every player who lays down a naked vote? No.

@mod...

I screwed up one of my Otter quotes in my last post. Not count his works my pist should be under 500 words.

<<< Correct, I clocked it as 485 when fixed. As a reminder, I will fix broken tags on my own, so a heads up on them is done at your own risk, but I appreciate it all the same. >>>

[Wisdom]

Youre kidding me, right?

[If Eevee had said anything to indicate a potential vote on me would have been for ex.  pressure to engage…I would not have thought twice about it.  She did not however hence the suspicion.
 

= "Eevee did not say why hes voting me, so its suspicious"

What I do find suspect is that you vote Koki for no other apparent or stated iirc reason than fluff posting which you yourself admit is NAI for him.

= "You didnt say why youre voting kokichi, so its suspicious"

Yeah youre totally not scumreading lack of reasons.

Dont post again, Wisdom, fourth post.

[ArcAngel9]

Arc
1) out of curiousity whats your first language than?
2) do you townread or find wisdom null? Im bad at recognizing sarcasm
3) ....why....exactly are you on hiraki?

1. Telugu
2. I town read him for his reaction test on me. I don't think see a behavior like that would come from a mafia member.
3. Because, he really didn't have any legit read on me. He just saw an opportunity to jump on to my wagon which is scummy.

I do. He called on me for trying to understand rules. How is that AI?

This isn't actually what happened.

This has happened. At least in my understanding

[Hiraki]

What happened is that he voted you for asking a fluffy question. At best, this vote is absolute garbage. At best, the vote is still absolute garbage.

You then voted him for voting you on an absolutely garbage basis and acted like it wasn't actually garbage AND that it might gain traction. Either way, it's scummy.

[SirCakez]

Lucky what is the scum motivation behind those Eevee things you described?
Arc Hiraki responded to several of my questions, it wasn't just a one post shift.
Fitz "gut/reaction test" explanation reads like major backpedaling.

[LuckyOtter]

SirCakez, I thought I pretty clearly summarized it at the end--Eevee reads to me as trying not to make waves by making posts with little to no substance, ignoring requests to provide reads, and asking softball questions. Scum benefits by appearing to be active while not drawing too much attention to themselves. I honestly don't know how to make this clearer.

[Kokichi Oma]

VOTE: wisdon

I think he tried to vote me to soft push and contradicted himself in the process

[Dunnstral]

Wait dunn are you saying im the only one with fluffy posts? (Also your first example isn't really fluffy?_?)

Well your iso stood out to me as a step beyond that I guess 0- those 2 quotes aren't examples of your fluffy posts, but of whatever i said after, your whole iso seemed fluffy, first quote was a read that felt weird

VOTE: wisdon

I think he tried to vote me to soft push and contradicted himself in the process

Going to disagree, I've actually changed my mind about Wisdom

VOTE: Havingfitz

[Hiraki]

Koki, what do you think about Arc's last post?

[EeveeLution Army]

You figure anything out TheFuzzyLogic?

[havingfitz]

Youre kidding me, right?

Absolutely not.

[If Eevee had said anything to indicate a potential vote on me would have been for ex. pressure to engage…I would not have thought twice about it. She did not however hence the suspicion.

= "Eevee did not say why hes voting me, so its suspicious"

"She did not however hence the suspicion"

WHICH WAS FOR

"The fact Eevee would be more inclined to place a vote on someone who only had 1 RVS post at that point in the game over any of the players who had generated, or had generated towards them, a fair amount of content seemed suspect imo and evasive of taking a stand."

What I do find suspect is that you vote Koki for no other apparent or stated iirc reason

than

fluff posting which you yourself admit is NAI for him.

= "You didnt say why youre voting kokichi, so its suspicious"

I'm voting you for the reasons you gave...not the reasons you didn't give. The reason you gave is BS and is the exact thing you are incorrectly accusing me of in voting me. Voting for NAI reasons.

Yeah youre totally not scumreading lack of reasons.

Yeah...you're totally misrepping.

[havingfitz]

Fitz "gut/reaction test" explanation reads like major backpedaling.

Where is my vote? I've given my reasons and stand behind them. And her reaction was shit so my vote feels better.

Reactions aren't something you consider with early game votes?

[SirCakez]

SirCakez, I thought I pretty clearly summarized it at the end--Eevee reads to me as trying not to make waves by making posts with little to no substance, ignoring requests to provide reads, and asking softball questions. Scum benefits by appearing to be active while not drawing too much attention to themselves. I honestly don't know how to make this clearer.

I did not see that, mb. I can see where you're coming from atm but I feel like it may be play style which is why I'm questioning about it.

Fitz "gut/reaction test" explanation reads like major backpedaling.

Where is my vote? I've given my reasons and stand behind them. And her reaction was shit so my vote feels better.

Reactions aren't something you consider with early game votes?

Initially you were calling your reads scum leans for reasons in that wall post. But now you're saying it was for other reasons (gut and etc) which is what bothers me. Not your dedication to your vote.

I need to do some rereading once I get home tonight. I feel like I'm missing stuff.

[SirCakez]

Wtf guys succinct =/= dead thread for 6 hours on a Saturday day 1

[Pine]

Don't blame me. I'm unabashedly active-lurking.

[EeveeLution Army]

I somewhat dislike how wisdom semi protected me there but idk its probably just friendly town(3)

[Pine]

Nah this is WisTown