SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[Taly]

Mobile posting, so I can't provide full details now, but:

I am Cheetory6, and I have a Conditional Bulletproof.
The main condition is me being the most popular player.

This isn't quite as broken as it sounds because there IS a second condition, but for obvious reasons, that condition is best left unclaimed so that the pun don't know when I can/cannot be shot.

Mmm... I don't see scum-motivation here. There's no normal roles in this game, to my understanding, so why would

Pun

lie here?

And if he's scum WITH a BP, then there's probably a mechanical or role reason for this. In which case,

Pun

is actively sacrificing his role info., in the effect of getting a reaction from townies, possibly to give info.

I'm not going to bother with setup spec right now, but I see more town-motivation in this post than anything else.

[quote="In but I really want this day focused on not scumhunting, but townhunting.

Right now I have a weak town read on the worst.

OK, I like the attitude of searching for town and weeding that out to deduce who's scum, but is there a bad reason you see for voting or scumhunting?

This early, with the aim to increase public knowledge, yeah. It's town points.

I'd also say as scum, that claim would serve to hurt his survivability.

This early, with the aim to increase public knowledge, yeah. It's town points.

kind of silly if you ask me.

Then what scum-motivation do you see behind

Pun

, if any? And I'm not just talking about his claim.

I still don't know why you picked the worst though.

Odd choice of words. Why do you think I said the worst was weak town?

What's odd about his words?

This early, with the aim to increase public knowledge, yeah. It's town points.

i don't agree with really any part of this but it kind of makes me want to townread Espeon. just a little.

and hi Fire! <3

<3 hi chara!!!! Do you have any reads at the moment?

I'm thinking

Pun

,

Espeon

, and

Fire

are all low townreads, I can't have much confidence in reads page 4.

Fire

and

Espeon

don't seem reserved with their thoughts.

How familiar are you with

the worst

? D: I can't distinguish between his town-range and scum-range yet.

I've also heard Chara is like really really towny as town fwiw

this is true.

i'm giving Brawl my 10 and Deas's opening was super scum for no other reason than the "i want to be liked here" vibe.

Being liked is nice though

And I want to make things fun because too often mafia gets super intense and serious and I don't want to be about that here!

Let's start making things fun by giving reads and assessments on the topics people are talking about! <3

And no, that was not meant to sound as sassy as it did in my head. XD

But yeah really, where's your head at?

This early, with the aim to increase public knowledge, yeah. It's town points.

No, not really. It's a fine starting point of discussion regardless of alignment.

Has that discussion helped you form reads?

No, not really. It's a fine starting point of discussion regardless of alignment.

I always find it a bit strange when someone disagrees with a townread on them.

I actually think questioning your own townread is pro-town.

People who don't actively post content worthwhile enough of making people question them at times, then they're likely not posting worthwhile content at all.

Namely, if someone's not challenging their townreads OR even scumreads on them, then they're likely either avoiding the possibility of being scumread, or playing a weak, null-game. Both of which are likely scum.

Like I get the specific idea you are not reading my posts Espeonage and wondering why you espouse a scumread while not reading

Yeah, I don't get a good feeling with this post.

Why is

Espeon's

scumread on you worth assuming that he's not even reading?

And through it all we've been thrown into fire, we've been lost in the flame, but we will rise from the ashes again

VOTE: Fire because ur name reminds me too much of my beloved Ace.

*sigh*

.....

Any thoughts on the gamestate? Because I don't think voting is valid D1 here, correct?

...

*goes back to rereading setup*

~~~

Other thoughts

1)

QUACK! Hi

the worst

! <3 What do you think of

Fire

townreading you? Also, do you have any intended votes right now?

2)

TehBrawlGuy

, where's your head at? D: You posted but I don't know what to conclude from it.

3)

Chara

bby, tell me why you're town?

4)

Do you have any notable townreads

Espeon

?

5)

Vax

, where tf are you? 40, 41, and 43 are random fluffposts.

[Taly]

[Taly]

1) QUACK! Hi the worst! <3 What do you think of Fire townreading you? Also, do you have any intended votes right now?

quack quack Taly <3

I am sliiiiiiightly uncomfortable with how many towny points Fire is throwing at me right now
they need to talk to Espeonage more first though.

Chara entry was towny, otherwise notrly



pedit: did you post cute gifs as a form of town meta insertion =_=

quack quack? quack! quack.

Yeah, I want to see those two post more before I make a stronger assessment.

Chara

is always townread, and from what I've seen from them, usually for good reasoning, but right now it's a slight townlean there. :3

lol nah

Me posting GIFs is becoming NAI. Plus, if it were town-meta insertion, I would've called it out, thus rendering it ineffective.

Kind of like what I'm doing now. I'm just really into this cute GIF phase.

I'm a bit more comfortable with saying you're likely town

[Taly]

Yeah, I don't get a good feeling with this post.

Why is Espeon's scumread on you worth assuming that he's not even reading?

Did you read my posts?

Did you read mine? I don't ask questions for no reason.

If I missed something, then point it out to me.

Then what scum-motivation do you see behind Pun, if any? And I'm not just talking about his claim.

Never said it was scum motivated, just not Townie.

Um... yeah, I wasn't just talking about his claim.

Do you have any read on him, then? Because you're not providing much reason other than

"it's not townie"

and that's not very conclusive.

[Taly]

[Taly]

Try to control the narrative less, and engage more.

[Taly]

3 times, and my damn questions still stand.

1)

Do you have a read on

Pun?

2)

Why does a scumread on you equal that a person is not paying to the thread?

[Taly]

3 times, and my damn questions still stand.

1)

Do you have a read on

Pun?

2)

Why does a scumread on you equal to that of a person who is not paying

attention

to the thread?

[Taly]

Eh, the second question is somewhat answered

[Taly]

OK, you're probably town.

gtg to class, bye

[Taly]

hey Taly! nice to see you. :>

why am i probably town? i see a few townreads on me but i haven't really done anything yet. why'd you ask why i'm town if you're townreading me?
to answer your question, i think Deas could be scum based on the scant few posts this game has. townread on Brawl was a joke because i found his post funny, but i'd be fine to throw a townread over there too, i suppose.

Ehhh... my read was kind of random gut. Your first impression gave me what I think town-you would be like.

I asked you why you're probably town while I townleaned you for several reasons:

1)

Wanted to get your reaction, seeing what you'd think of me asking a seemingly-trivial question while providing a judgment.

2)

Wanted a start-off point of engagement with you BEYOND

"what/who is this to you"

.

I can see

Deas

being scum based off him seeming to be very productive, but he hasn't been like that. I can't tell if it's playstyle or something more, though.

What makes you think

Brawl

could be town?
Any reaction to the posting between

me and Fire

?
Do you think we should do scumreads/townreads type thing, or should we do

"lets start assigning numbers to people, and ranking our reads based off that"?

Ok I skimmed.

DAYVIG: Deasvail

Peace out. I’m going back to the beach and I wave you bye.

So I'm guessing you scumread

Deasvail

... like several other people have already stated.

But yeah really, where's your head at?

Hey Taly. My reads are still a work in process right now and so it's going to be a little while before I share general thoughts. If you have anything specific you'd like to ask me about though, I'd be very happy to answer.

Sure

1)

Opinion of

me and Fire's

interaction?

2)

Thoughts on people suspecting you? You haven't really acknowledged any suspicion on you, despite it being baseless.

3)

Do you think votes are valuable right now? Should we do scumreads/townreads or should we make a RANKING in-thread of our current numbers, and assigning them to the playerlist with reasons?

I haven't read the last couple of pages but Maria is getting a ten.

easiest game of my fucking life

Please provide substance.

If I was handing out scum points right now I would have Espeonage and Taly taking the most.

Why Taly? Feels town to me.

Your vote has remained on

the worst

, and while I think it was intended for RVS, has any of their posting given you a read on them?

[Taly]

Too many people are playing null right now. It's a bit hard to conjure reads.

[Taly]

To exploit the system we should publicly declare our 0s, and maybe our entire rankings.

Now give me all your 10s >:)

I'd like this post more if it wasn't the only post they had at the moment.

[Taly]

Dunnstral

and

TwoMillion

haven't even posted yet...

[Taly]

OK, you're probably town.

gtg to class, bye

Fire's

mostly town to me at the moment because I can't foresee scum being so openly aggressive when there's literally no waves happening right now. Specifically him being unwilling to level with me, which I usually don't townread, but tunneling in this setup D1 sounds counter-intuitive - given the ranking system.

Plus, he's one of the phew people trying to make waves and gamesolve.

Too many people are playing null right now. It's a bit hard to conjure reads.

It's 5 pages in. It will come. It will come. Also I no longer trust your ass anymore!

Is this becasue of Echo Bay SEO game? Or the PYP game?

Because I was deepwolfing this shit out of both games, and nobody trusts me anymore. LOL

[Taly]

You're asking for content with 6 pages in you'll get content when I feel the urge to post something so far it's a *shrug*

So should I just wait for page 12 and hope the deadline hasn't already arrived by then?

Thankfully there's 2 players in here who I can read better then anyone on this site I'd say so this will be easy

Is it anyone within

{Deasvail, Fire, the worst, Espeonage, TehBrawlGuy, Chara}

?

[Taly]

Are you willing to tell me that my townvibe on

Chara

is correct? Or do you not have sufficient info.?

[Taly]

OK, you can be town for now.

My biggest worry at the moment is that I'm townreading people who are just engaging with me, but I like your answers so far.

10) Taly

10)

10)

9)

8)

7) Punreader

(most confident read)

:

do not see why scum would claim BP, a situational utility, and question a townread on them all within the first few pages of the game.

6) the worst:

asking questions that come to conclusions, forcing content to be spewed, most involved so far.

6) MariaR:

Thinking before doing, nonchalant about perceptions regarding themselves it seems.

5) Shoshin:

Really good posting 112, provides reasoning for thoughts when needed, and voices different opinions. 115

5) Fire Assassain

(volatile read)

:

125

4) Chara:

I want to engage with them more before I elaborate or think more critically here.

4) Espeonage

(volatile read)

:

Sensible posting, some things I agreed with. Want to see more.

3) DeasVail:

Need to see more, I want them to make stances.

2) Screen:

Entrance can be either town or scum.

1)

0)

0)

0)

{TehBrawlGuy, ActionDan, Dunnstral, ReubenWasFine, TwoInAMillion, Vaxkiller, PenguinPower} = ?

Nico

would get a 1, but it's mostly policy and that isn't viable right now.

[Taly]

I just want to lynch someone and I can't

Yes. This.

Well, we can't. So do something else that's productive.

Do you think we should vote and pseudolynch, rank everyone like I did in 132, a combination of both, or neither? And if neither is your answer, then it would help if you gave an alternative.

Taly, as much as I think you’re most likely town here, I don’t have stances to make beyond what I’ve already made here and I feel that expecting more stance-wise 5-6 pages in is unrealistic.

Taly: "Guys, answer my questions and give me thoughts, I'm giving mine. We need more content."
Playerlist: "It's only page 6, Taly..."
Taly: "Bitch, I've caught 2+ scumreads in that span of time before."
Playerlist: "Chill, Taly."
Taly: "If content isn't spilled now, then what's going to catalyze that later?"

Egh... This internal dialogue of how I view the gamestate makes me want to reread.

I need vax higher than fa

I need fa higher than vax

So... This is an actual role mechanic I'm guessing.

I'm not sure at this stage whether to think that it's necessarily scummy to townread Chara, but both Fire Assassin and Taly have reads on Chara that I struggle to understand.

shhhhh

DV, *pats on head*

, I have reasons for my madness.

[Taly]

Too many people are playing null right now. It's a bit hard to conjure reads.

It's 5 pages in. It will come. It will come. Also I no longer trust your ass anymore!

goodfuckingposting scum!Taly is basically satan

[Taly]

I'm giving screenplay a permanent 0 for 105

Ok. You caught me. I don’t pay attention and I’m bad town. GG. Move on now.

I would hate this post if it were most other people

But you did flip town in Echo Bay for similar type posting. ((Plus my tunnel/read on you there was a bit of scum theater lol))

So I think you're more town???? Blegh.

[Taly]

I'm keen on posting/updating my rankings frequently solely to get people's attention and see how they react to them

[Taly]

I'm keen on posting/updating my rankings frequently solely to get people's attention and see how they react to them

This doesn't work when you state the reason why you're doing it.

[Taly]

ugh why does things finally get good when im going to class

will post later

[Taly]

Maria, what'd you like about 155? You think it's realistic that townScreen actually thought there weren't scum in this game?

Do you think

Screen

was being serious? lol, this question sounds much sassier than intended, btw.

The only game I've played with him is when he was town, and he made similar BS-type posts that made little sense. That's not enough to warrant a confident townlean from him, but with his recent posts bringing up scum possibilities, I think this is

Screen

at least appearing to be pro-town... by his standards.

PINE<3333

TBH I think if someone's role is impacted by the d1 mechanics or has a strong negative utility or something it's worth claiming otherwise probably not. I like whoever made that BP claim less the more I think on it

Dan and Shoshin are looking ok

What makes you uneasy about the BP claim?

Also what's "looking OK" mean?

yeah nothing by Punreader has impressed me

i agree with basically all of the above post. thanks Maria.

also provable role =/= alignment-indicative information.

D: Any independent thoughts

Chara

?

Also you missed this:

Ehhh... my read was kind of random gut. Your first impression gave me what I think town-you would be like.

I asked you why you're probably town while I townleaned you for several reasons:
1) Wanted to get your reaction, seeing what you'd think of me asking a seemingly-trivial question while providing a judgment.
2) Wanted a start-off point of engagement with you BEYOND "what/who is this to you".

I can see Deas being scum based off him seeming to be very productive, but he hasn't been like that. I can't tell if it's playstyle or something more, though.

What makes you think Brawl could be town?
Any reaction to the posting between me and Fire?
Do you think we should do scumreads/townreads type thing, or should we do "lets start assigning numbers to people, and ranking our reads based off that"?

So scum is
Deasvail
The worst
Dan/Shoshin

Sounds good.

:/ Can you explain? Because you got townreads in here, and you also got iffy people in here.

not sure how to feel about the fact I don't think that team has any scum in it

How are you sure

Dan, Shoshin, and DeasVail

are likely town?

Does this impact your read on

Screen

?

Mmm... I don't see scum-motivation here. There's no normal roles in this game, to my understanding, so why would

Pun

lie here?

And if he's scum WITH a BP, then there's probably a mechanical or role reason for this. In which case,

Pun

is actively sacrificing his role info., in the effect of getting a reaction from townies, possibly to give info.

There is an answer to this which would reveal why it is not nearly as town as you are assuming.

I don't think this is a reason I should share, but it contributes to the confidence in the action not being alignment-indicative.

See, this is why I don't get people questioning the nature of your claim. At least at this moment.

If you were scum, why would you list possibilities on how an action could be motivated as scum? Or at least, not being as town as someone believed? Town usually wants full transparency and understanding, and I don't think scum openly point out there action to town-me as a,

"you could see this at another angle that also makes sense"

if it meant they'd be questioned more.

My D1 reads often suck, but I don't scum here.

Also:

disagree that pun's claim should be viewed as towny - BP is a very easy falseclaim to make, especially conditional where nobody can shoot safely to check it. I still read him as Town on tone, but I think giving him townpoints for the claim is bad logic.

Tonereads without meta or defined reasoning does not look like strong logic to me, either.

And if the claim shouldn't be viewed as towny - which is not the sole reason of my townread there at this point - then what's your take on it?

Has that discussion helped you form reads?

Indirectly, yes. I'm still deciding at what time I'll reveal them. I can feasibly do it at any time, even during the night. (Role perk; yes this is a softclaim. I have Cheetory, the

winner of SUPP 2017

, as my role. It has many benefits.)

I was thinking perhaps shortly after every player had contributed content, as that'd leave time for refinement off of reactions. I'm sadly no Ellibereth, but I am a big fan of his work and bombshell-dropping style. Except instead of a bomb, I drop puns.

Mmm.... I'd like to wait before I think about the softclaim.

This is my town post.

Gaze and wonder at it's town-ness.

Scum will cower and be fearful of it's power.

I fell asleep.

- TehBrawlGuy

I am not ready to share the specifics of my thoughts here yet, but I am concerned!

(Okay it only ended up being one person. Well there we go!)

--

And The Worst is a special read in that I initially had him in the suspicious section and then in the town section and now I...

I'm ready to hear the specific thoughts when you want to tell.

Also, even if you don't have a defined read on

the worst

, can you talk to me about him? I've seen enough of his play to tell that his alignments have a difference in his play.

Haven't seen enough to tell what those differences are.

Are you good with the voting/ranking system at the same time,

DV

?

My issue with this is that if scum have some sort of mechanic to abuse the results it might make it abusable.

I'd rather we pick someone to universally give zeros and people who step outside of that have scumclaimed.

Describe

"abusable"

, like an example.

Ehhh... I have reservations of literally pointing out someone and all of us collectively give them 0s. If they're town, that's basically a free sacrifice for scum.

If they're scum, we don't have adequate information in deducing their partners? Or at least, figuring out IF we hit scum prior to a deadline.

[Taly]

I'm up for voting and ranking.

[Taly]

How are you sure Dan, Shoshin, and DeasVail are likely town?

Does this impact your read on Screen?

did I say that?

Srceen I'm not ready to read with any kind of confidence. I've played with him as both alignments but treat it as dead null for me.

not sure how to feel about the fact I don't think that team has any scum in it

If you don't think there's scum in

DeasVail, Dan, Shoshin

then could you elaborate why?

What was

Screen-scum

like to you in comparison to Echo Bay, where he was town?

BP claim I initially thought was kinda ballsy and towny but in hindsight idrk why I thought that. Do you have an issue with my comments on Pun Taly?

No, just wondering what made you change from somewhat towny to unsure.

Do you think Screen was being serious? lol, this question sounds much sassier than intended, btw.

The only game I've played with him is when he was town, and he made similar BS-type posts that made little sense. That's not enough to warrant a confident townlean from him, but with his recent posts bringing up scum possibilities, I think this is Screen at least appearing to be pro-town... by his standards.

I don't think Screen believes what he's saying.

Maria's response to that concerns me.

Chara

essentially agreed with her sentiments 175, are you concerned about that too?

[Taly]

I want

Fire

to post

[Taly]

Hi, this is a thing.

For my role, I need Fire Assassin to be rated highly today

And I am the antithesis, I need him to do poorly.

But that's cool bc he scum.

Missed this post

Is

Fire

your only scumread at the moment? If so, can you refresh my memory as to why?

[Taly]

Ok read up.

I'm giving screenplay a permanent 0 for 105

Other people low on the totem pole are Chara/Deas/Brawl though for Chara/Deas there were different points where each talking about Chara being townread for spurious reasons redeemed them a tad. Also I think it's clear they aren't scum together.

Brawl for this:

fire scums

@dunn and espeonage: do you just need him to be higher/lower than an average, or a certain mark? because we as a town could give him all 0s or all 10s to guarantee one of you gets the power

Thought process here is manufactured

Espe came off as stilted earlier but considering w.e this role mechanic that's going on between Dunnstral/Espe/Vax/FA might explain that somewhat aside from the fact that Espe's continued serious scum read on FA doesn't make sense to me.

There's not much clarity in this post.

1)

In light of

Screen's

posts, has your read or thought on him changed?

2)

Why is a permanent 0 a good idea when we haven't even reached page 10?

3)

What is manufactured about

TehBrawlGuy's

thinking?

I've only seen a very weak role mechanic claim between

Dunn/Espe

? Where does

Fa/Vax

come into this equation?

You stated

Chara/Deas

is clearly not scum together but you didn't explain why.

[Taly]

:/ I'm becoming paranoid that scum is both being townread and suspected at once

[Taly]

Pine fills the slot at light speed. Welcome him warmly.

[Taly]

Before I get to replies, is ANYONE on the same page in this game?

[Taly]

Before I get to replies, is ANYONE on the same page in this game?

How do you expect people to respond to this?

Don't evade the question

If you're going to respond to the question, then

answer

it.

If you would say what you've already said before:

"there's not much at the moment for many defined stances"

, then do something to help change that.

If you would say that you've ALREADY made a few stances, which you have, then talk to me about the people who don't share your thoughts.

[Taly]

My take on it, as is my take on most early claims, is that I don't really care. I could give you 5 reasons town!pun makes that claim and 5 reasons scum!pun makes it, but it's all baseless speculation.
From my experience, people like to read roles and claims a lot more than players (see also: some of the chatter on espe/dunn), and it's a mistake early in the game. Shelve the claims, develop reads on actual play.

Meh... Do you have a read on their play, then?

I just don't get tonereads, as in, I'm not someone who uses tone to gamesolve, usually.

I'm very case-style, and that doesn't merge too well with current site-meta.

I'm having second thoughts on

Fire

. I didn't like that they minimized me trying to interact with them. I can't tell if he was playstyle clashing with me or overtly trying to dismiss me. He could've easily responded to my points, and instead he found reasons to state that I wasn't oriented to gamesolving. 84 - 87 and 88

I also don't know what to think about

Espe

and

Dunn's

claims at the moment. I don't have a strong read on either of them, and coincidentally, I'm leaning to the suspicion side for

Vax

and

Fire

.

Vax

because he's just drifting in the game and fluffposting; like an active lurker.

Fire

because I'm afraid I'm townreading scum, and he would be the first person I'd rethink.

If I had to number based off reads, I'd put them all near mid-range, but I don't think that's optimal.

How do you feel about these 4?

Ehhh... I have reservations of literally pointing out someone and all of us collectively give them 0s. If they're town, that's basically a free sacrifice for scum.

That's just a mislynch though? I don't get why you're opposed to this. Yes, if we hit the wrong target, someone Town dies, because that's how lynches work - and we're not usually shy about lynching. I've been thinking about it more, and I'm strongly in favor of having two pseudo-lynches today. If we don't do that, I'd bet dollars to donuts Scum rank people weirdly to fuck with the numbers behind the scenes. The reasons for doing it to save another scummate are clear, but they also benefit from keeping someone Town alive who should've died to the ranking, because they'll enter D2 as mislynch bait.

I'd rather not mislynch at all. If I were going to put someone at a 0 as a scumread, I'd be weary on whether everyone's doing it or not.

Is there anyone that has warranted a 0 from you, yet?

Chara essentially agreed with her sentiments 175, are you concerned about that too?

Yes.

Think it's town-motivated?

In post 177, Srceenplay wrote:
So scum is
Deasvail
The worst
Dan/Shoshin

Sounds good.


:/ Can you explain? Because you got townreads in here, and you also got iffy people in here.

DV opened the game feeling scumy. I’m not the only one to pick up on it either. Soon after their tone changes imo.
I don’t like it. They are trying to blend in more.

The worst. They had some interactions with someone on this list. Do remember what or who. (Maybe DV and Shoshin) It felt odd/fake. Maybe look back after my vacation. Also iirc the the last time the worst didn’t town read me he was scum.

Dan tried forcing a post of mine as a scum claim and Shoshin postering.

That’s all off of memory.

My biggest question on

DV

is that they're very fluid, and not making any harsher pushes in the game.

I don't know if that's playstyle, but even then, I'm not sure if it's town-motivated or scum-motivated. What's scummy there?

And what felt fake about

the worst

?

Srceen's post here gives me bad feelings about him.

Taly: didn't miss it, haven't had the energy to respond to most things so just picking easy ones. still sick. :>
hopefully the misery should be over soon.

I'm waiting

I've only seen a very weak role mechanic claim between Dunn/Espe? Where does Fa/Vax come into this equation?

Because I need FA higher than Vax and Espe needs Vax higher than FA

Not sure what you mean when you say the mechanical claim is "very weak" - you mean in provability or in relation to our alignments?

Mostly relation to your alignments, because none of you are a confident read.

How do you feel about the other 3 people involved in your claim?

TALY STOP READING MY POSTS UNCRITICALLY

What makes you think I haven't been critical?

and also wrt srceen it would be anti town for me to explain what I find different about his play, I've played with him as scum once and town 3?+ times. Also read a few older games but he doesn't roll scum often.

Yeah, I don't quite get this post...

[Taly]

Some of my lowest scores:

VOTE: ActionDan

You've posted elsewhere onsite since my previous post asking you to clarify yourself.

There's also multiple people that have questioned you and you haven't given

~

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Reads on

Espe, Dunn, and Fire

.

~

VOTE: PenguinPower

You wanted votes, and here's one.

Have any other commentary on the game? Because your posting is pretty easy to overlook.

~~~

Nico and Reuben

are also low-tier.

[Taly]

Some of my lowest scores:

VOTE: ActionDan

You've posted elsewhere onsite since my previous post asking you to clarify yourself.

There's also multiple people that have questioned you and you haven't given

any answers or reply.

lol my brain stopped

[Taly]

Is this how I SUPP Mafia? Asking for a friend.

That's so cute

Pine

Congratulations!

Want to something else that's cute? <3 Reads!!

[Taly]

[Taly]

YAS QUEEN

CALL EM OUT.



Also, is this color legal in this thread? I know it can look similar to the mod-color for some people, so I'm just wondering

[Taly]

I'm open to doing this as a unit, and I've been very clear with how I'll do my reads.

I'm claiming my numbers each time I make a readslist, and I'm probably going to have more readslists in this game than I do in most of my games.

I'm also not opposed to giving lurkers low-scores, but that may give deepwolfs a good grace. I'd rather keep lurkers low, while pushing for potential scumreads. Hence I'm voting and ranking simultaneously. That BEGS interactions in this game, which I think could very greatly help town later.

Furthermore,

Vax

, can you tell me why

TehBrawlGuy

is a good consensus kill? I'm not a huge fan of his posts, but I'm not seeing things that blatantly point to scum.

Also, why is the 2nd slot for a kill open? Do you just not have many townreads?

lol, this playerlist is a bitch to try and read accurately, I just realized that. XD

[Taly]

I don't know how to scum hunt when I can't try to read peoples reasons and motivations for voting and jumping on and off wagons. This is hard. This is going to be an easy scum win I think.

I don't see the point in this part, though. Seems unnecessary.

I've already asked you a question regarding the claims involving you and the reads there.

[Taly]

EVERYONE here is going to give tehbrawlguy a 0. We are lycnhign him tonight, hands down. Im open to the other person who gets killed.

No

If you're going to say "no" then give a reason or suggest an alternative route.

The only reads I'm seeing that people have generally agreed with have come pretty easily and without much evolving information.

(Townreads on the worst/Chara and Scumreads on DeasVail/Screenplay - as a FEW examples.

Other than that, there's not a lot of cohesion, and I get that this is only D1, but in this setup - it's vital.

[Taly]

I'm also not opposed to giving lurkers low-scores,

And this is where we are all going to fail.

I don't see the point in placing lurkers as higher numbers?

Furthermore, Vax, can you tell me why TehBrawlGuy is a good consensus kill? I'm not a huge fan of his posts, but I'm not seeing things that blatantly point to scum.

I have 0 reads. Thebrawlguy seems like a great place to start. (If you want to call that a read, go ahead.) But I want to push somewhere get some info, maybe a claim, then go from there. Killing lurkers overnight is fucking stupid. I wanted planned executions. Killing unplanned lurkers is dumb

Did I say we should kill off lurkers? I'm talking about putting SCUMREADS at the lowest, and that's not specific to lurkers.

I

have

reads, and I'm working toward a plan. You're saying

TehBrawlGuy

is a good start but I want to know what led you to that conclusion.

P-Edit

Like, if I were scum I would just point out posts that look scummy and point out posts that look town, without really pushing people to do anything. Why bother sticking your head out there. Just lurk the fuck out of it while looking like you are "contributing good info"

Instead I want to take responsibility. I wanted PLANNED executions. Right now my plan is to kill thebrawlguy. The rest of my list is still forming. You will likely get a 5 or something, because like I said earlier. I really dont know how to read you.

I mean if you are arguing that actiondan or PP would be better. go ahead, but I want thebrawlguy

UNVOTE: Vaxkiller

OK, I see your point. I'll level with you.

I think

Dan

so far has posted inconclusively and isn't actively oriented in the game, and I think that's a sign of scum.

PenguinPower

has not contributed and they're one of the least notable people in the game so far. I think that could also be scum.

I don't have very confident reads at the moment, so I can't explicitly state who I'd want to be killed off. Thus why I'm voting, replying, and asking questions.

[Taly]

Ugh

Also, it annoys me that people often say they don't know how to read me. That just sets me up for WIFOM later which happens a lot.

[Taly]

I just read the first half of the game on my lunch break. I concur that Penguin looks like scum

Details, reasons?

Did I say we should kill off lurkers?

Im saying its going to happen naturally if we dont prevent it. Sometimes maybe we will not be able to reach a consensus, and come to a compromise on a lurker.


As far as WHY to start with thebrawlguy, I feel he his claim/fake claim had TMI in it, and if its real, it HAS to be a scum role and I think he didnt think it through very well.

36 looks like a shitpost to me, what makes you think his "claim" has validity? If that's the post you're looking at.

44 - what do you think about the follow-up to you, here?

I just read the first half of the game on my lunch break. I concur that Penguin looks like scum

That's boring. Any other reads?

Shoshin's

probably one of my most solid townreads at the moment.

Like, part of this is soul, and part of this townread I can case for.

EVERYONE here is going to give tehbrawlguy a 0. We are lycnhign him tonight, hands down. Im open to the other person who gets killed.

No

If you're going to say "no" then give a reason or suggest an alternative route.

The only reads I'm seeing that people have generally agreed with have come pretty easily and without much evolving information.

(Townreads on the worst/Chara and Scumreads on DeasVail/Screenplay - as a FEW examples.

Other than that, there's not a lot of cohesion, and I get that this is only D1, but in this setup - it's vital.

I’m on vacation. I’m just trying to read enough to not be behind.
We still have time I’ll be back from vacation Monday.


TBG. I just finished a game with him. We were both town. I got tunnel vision on him and don’t want to do it again. His posts now feel the same as last game. So I don’t plan on giving him a zero.

I'm not so sure with

the worst

-town in actuality, but he is still a townread in general.

Their caution with me is warranted, I guess

((he's only had completed games with me where I deepwolfed as scum and fooled him))

, but I don't know how if it's 100% sincere or for an agenda, yet.

When I make my next readslist, I'm going to ISO them and look at their interactions.

[Taly]

Yeah, I don't quite get this post...

That is OK you don't have to

Not enough readable content and his v/la is prejudicing my read so gonna need a bit of time

also FTR other people scumreading srceen makes me want to townread him lol.

I relate to this a lot, the

"want to townread the scumread"

thing

Town
ReubenWasFine
NicoRobin
VaxKiller

Free square

Shoshin
Chara
Punreader
Scum

If you landed on the free square, you may be given a high or low number. This may already be decided.

I forgot you were in this game, tbh.

Your reads have no explanation, so I can't follow them that well.

I mean, I get why people scum read me given my scum meta, but I hate D1 to being with and there being no voting mechanism is fairly offputting.

This reads like an excuse.

Nobody's stopping you from voting right now, faux votes are legal.

I think Dan so far has posted inconclusively and isn't actively oriented in the game, and I think that's a sign of scum.

PenguinPower has not contributed and they're one of the least notable people in the game so far. I think that could also be scum.

Get the inactivity read, but why leave out Pine, NicoRobin, Punreader, ReubenWasFine, Dunnstral...

Find it interesting these weren't among your stated lowest scores, particularly Nico and Reuben.

Pun's

a solid townread. ISO me and I've made multiple posts here.

I'm engaging with

Pine

? He just replaced into a slot who I already forgot who the predecessor was, it wasn't that memorable. When I have a read there, I'll let ya know.

Honestly, I just realized

Reuben's

in this game and I don't know them. Their latest post had some substance.

Dunn

is someone I'm not sure yet. I don't know what's the most optimal way to approach his claim revolving around

Vax, Fire, and Espe

.

Plus, I can only give so many low scores mechanically... and so many faux votes before the thread's cluttered from my pushes and I lose the ability to filter info because of it. I'm gamesolving methodically.

You've made posts since 46. The majoriy of your ISO (which is half) up until your 264 is you talking about why you want to lynch and discussing things that aren't very relevant to the gamestate. It's already noted that voting is a viable option to play here.

I really don't know where your heads at because you haven't really given reads, and you've had minimal content in conjunction with this. It's not based solely on your activity.

[Taly]

PP can be town for today ill he will end up with a 7 or something

Why is

PP

town to you...?

Ugh

Also, it annoys me that people often say they don't know how to read me. That just sets me up for WIFOM later which happens a lot.

well, that won't be a problem here, seeing as you're town.

Yeah-yeah, I'd like to hear why you think that.

I mean, you're not wrong, but still.

Ugh

Also, it annoys me that people often say they don't know how to read me. That just sets me up for WIFOM later which happens a lot.

well, that won't be a problem here, seeing as you're town.

what makes you say that so confidently?

what makes you say that so confidently?

I agree with the duck.

Is it weird to have a confident read on me?

because I'm much more thankful for that than the BS

"putting

Taly

in the middle"

thing that some people in this game like doing.

[Taly]

I'm currently one of the most vocal people in this game

The fact that my alignment or the conclusion of my alignment being questionable makes me feel a little uneasy.

I think I'd rather be scumread than be neutral/null. At least with a scumread, there's not this passive

"muddy the waters"

thinking on my slot.

There's more to work with when someone has an opinion or defined read on you.

I just think scum looks at me and thinks

"hmmm, this is an easy person to cast uncertainty on"

[Taly]

This reads like an excuse.

Nobody's stopping you from voting right now, faux votes are legal.

And have no impact, so are worthless.

Then why are you even bringing up votes? If you think there's no point, you're not adding to the discussion by saying

"I want this, but we can't have this"

And if you think votes are worthless, I'm voting you, and is it not catching your attention?

An unsubstantiated townread...yeah? P sure you just asked for rationale above, so why ask me about it?

Because I'm looking to see if you're trying to genuinely figure out my alignment, or trying to make a townread on me seem unusual or unwarranted.

I'm currently one of the most vocal people in this game

The fact that my alignment or the conclusion of my alignment being questionable makes me feel a little uneasy.

I think I'd rather be scumread than be neutral/null. At least with a scumread, there's not this passive

"muddy the waters"

thinking on my slot.

There's more to work with when someone has an opinion or defined read on you.

I just think scum looks at me and thinks

"hmmm, this is an easy person to cast uncertainty on"

We're 12 pages in with a lot of low content slots (myself included). The fact that you are vocal means nothing in terms of alignment right.

Oh, previous thing I should have asked...why is Punread a strong townread?

Yeah, being vocal doesn't necessarily indicate town or scum in of itself.

But since I am being very present in the thread, I'm a little weary of people giving unclear evaluations on me, unless there's a stated reason.

Pun's

town to me because:

1)

I still think their claim would potentially come more from town.

2)

Curious about everyone else questioning the claim.

3)

When he's present, he engages with multiple people at once, drawing focus onto himself.

4)

Questions reads on him and gives valid counterstances that help improve the perception of another player.

I want to see them post more, but these are the reasons I'm thinking of so far that suggest they're town.

[Taly]

I think I'm clogging up the thread and it's getting late right now for me. :/

I'm going to think about my reads tomorrow and probably post them soon.

[Taly]

*wakes up*

oh god

Townlean on

TBG

deleted.

Wallpost incoming whenever I feel like it, because I just woke up.

[Taly]

When Chara, Pun and DeasVail post this past page-

When TBG and PP post this past page-

[Taly]

ALSO STOP USING BUZZWORDS LIKE OMGUS AND LAMIST.

DO YOU WANT TOWN TO LOSE? STOP SCUMCLAIMING OR BEING OVERTLY BAD TOWN.

[Taly]

It's been awhile since I had a good 1v1

Or actually, 2v1 - because 2 people are very strong scumreads right now.

[Taly]

LET'S START WITH PP.

Then why are you even bringing up votes? If you think there's no point, you're not adding to the discussion by saying "I want this, but we can't have this"

And if you think votes are worthless, I'm voting you, and is it not catching your attention?

I said I wanted a system to vote, not the standard voting system. I don't really care that you have voted me since it means naught.

VOTE: Taly

1)

Delayed ass vote. Disingenuous.

2)

You literally discredited and dismissed my vote on you. Good job.

3)

You show no effort to try and actually figure out my alignment.

VOTE: PenguinPower
VOTE: PenguinPower
VOTE: PenguinPower

Either you're scum, or scum must LOVE keeping you alive.

Because I'm looking to see if you're trying to genuinely figure out my alignment, or trying to make a townread on me seem unusual or unwarranted.

Then wait for the original person asked to answer before jumping in.

Did you read a thing

Chara

stated? He wasn't going to answer until I stepped in.

He wasn't the reason I posted, of course, but instead of pushing me out of a conversation and then shading me for asking my OWN questions; how about you actually listen to the person you're talking to.

1) I still think their claim would potentially come more from town.

Not sure I agree, and, as I said originally, I find it odd to without more information.

Um... What's odd about waiting to give reasoning for a read? You know that's been half of the reads given so far in this game, right?

Why are you cherry picking the few reads of clarity on ME?

2) Curious about everyone else questioning the claim.

Why is that town and not scum? Both alignments can do that.

No, I'm saying I'm curious about everyone questioning his claim.

That makes me think he's more town, because it's easy for scum to cast suspicion and distrust revolving around an otherwise potentially pro-town claim.

I think, generally, scum would have a smarter claim.

3) When he's present, he engages with multiple people at once, drawing focus onto himself.

All 5 posts...totally drawing focus.

I mean, when he's present.

That's much more than what I can say for most of your ISO.

4) Questions reads on him and gives valid counterstances that help improve the perception of another player.

This happened where?

Have you read any interactions I had with him?

[Taly]

Or you could stop being condescending in giant text? Seriously, it's obnoxious, and I'm already sick of you doing it.

I don't get what the issue is with using terminology if it helps convey meaning. It's not like this is a newbie game. You all know what it means

Is this your way of trying to downplay my intentions, again?

[Taly]

Spoiler: Me Line-By-Lining TBGs 285, get the popcorn out people.

This is a scum post. Let's dissect it!

I'll probably make a longer post later but here are my brief thoughts:

I mean, you haven't expanded much on the thoughts you're about to go into...

lmao @ vax wanting to kill me for the wang claim - I'm not even mad, it's too funny. Vax is probably Town because I think that's a crazy push for Scum to make.

1)

You say

Vax

is town, but instead of telling him why his push on you is wrong, you laugh at his reasons. Disingenuous and clearly not oriented into gamesolving.

2)

Your reason for his push being bad is that it's crazy for scum to push it? What? It just sounds like you're injecting your own bias to strengthen your means of discrediting him.

Do you know for a fact scum would be crazy to push you? Because you're pretty blatantly anti-town with the reason posts.

I definitely see resisting the pseudolynch as a ProScum play - PP and Taly both get shade for this.

Have you READ my posts?

At what point have I EVER gone with the idea that a psuedolynch option is bad? What the hell? I've been voting and ranking and giving suggestions of how town should work together, and this comment heavily implies you're not even listening to it.

Chara's townread on me doesn't seem genuine - they've given themselves an "out" to it every time they've posted and I find it weird that I've consistently sat at lukewarm town without moving.

Why do you keep weakening all the townreads on you? Like, you're casting uncertainty and suspicion while townreading someone? Maybe you know they're town for a fact, but you want a free mislynch when it's optimal for you?

This isn't town.

Also, it's convenient for you that you talk about

Chara

when he posts about ME.

previewedit: PP's last post makes me feel that PP v Taly is not TvT. Dunno which one is the Scum yet, though. I'll catch that on re-read.

...Where do I begin with this?

1)

Thanks for the mid-D1 dichotomy. Must be great to cast as much WIFOM as possible for you, right? Helps that scum-wincon.

4)

2)

You never said why TvT isn't possible between us.

3)

You casted shade on BOTH of us WITHIN this post, yet you're going to imply that one of us is scum, and the other is town? Wtf?

4)

The whole fencesitting on us is fake; you're looking at an opportunity to push a side of our 1v1 that BENEFITS YOU. You've displayed no real read on

PP

or myself, and this comment is very, very destructive to town congealing.

Or you could stop being condescending in giant text? Seriously, it's obnoxious, and I'm already sick of you doing it.

I don't get what the issue is with using terminology if it helps convey meaning. It's not like this is a newbie game. You all know what it means

Is this your way of trying to downplay my intentions, again?

I sincerely don't understand what you're trying to get at with this. Clarify?

If you think using poorly-defined buzzwords like

OMGUS and LAMIST

accurately display your thought process and paints a good picture for town that DOESN'T cause uncertainty,

then you need to rethink your approach here, critically.

Being condescending is the last thing I'm intending right now - your 'criticisms' are not easy to understand or engage with, and the more you keep posting in this muddy-gray area alongside this, the more I scumread you.

[Taly]

My take on it, as is my take on most early claims, is that I don't really care. I could give you 5 reasons town!pun makes that claim and 5 reasons scum!pun makes it, but it's all baseless speculation.
From my experience, people like to read roles and claims a lot more than players (see also: some of the chatter on espe/dunn), and it's a mistake early in the game. Shelve the claims, develop reads on actual play.

Meh... Do you have a read on their play, then?

I just don't get tonereads, as in, I'm not someone who uses tone to gamesolve, usually.

I'm very case-style, and that doesn't merge too well with current site-meta.

I'm having second thoughts on

Fire

. I didn't like that they minimized me trying to interact with them. I can't tell if he was playstyle clashing with me or overtly trying to dismiss me. He could've easily responded to my points, and instead he found reasons to state that I wasn't oriented to gamesolving. 84 - 87 and 88

I also don't know what to think about

Espe

and

Dunn's

claims at the moment. I don't have a strong read on either of them, and coincidentally, I'm leaning to the suspicion side for

Vax

and

Fire

.

Vax

because he's just drifting in the game and fluffposting; like an active lurker.

Fire

because I'm afraid I'm townreading scum, and he would be the first person I'd rethink.

If I had to number based off reads, I'd put them all near mid-range, but I don't think that's optimal.

How do you feel about these 4?

Ehhh... I have reservations of literally pointing out someone and all of us collectively give them 0s. If they're town, that's basically a free sacrifice for scum.

That's just a mislynch though? I don't get why you're opposed to this. Yes, if we hit the wrong target, someone Town dies, because that's how lynches work - and we're not usually shy about lynching. I've been thinking about it more, and I'm strongly in favor of having two pseudo-lynches today. If we don't do that, I'd bet dollars to donuts Scum rank people weirdly to fuck with the numbers behind the scenes. The reasons for doing it to save another scummate are clear, but they also benefit from keeping someone Town alive who should've died to the ranking, because they'll enter D2 as mislynch bait.

I'd rather not mislynch at all. If I were going to put someone at a 0 as a scumread, I'd be weary on whether everyone's doing it or not.

Is there anyone that has warranted a 0 from you, yet?

Fire: pings me, but I can't tell if that's because badtown or scum. I'm leaning badtown.
Espe: Has been pretty content to talk a lot about his role and the mechanics, but hasn't chimed in on much else. I consider focusing on that kind of role-centric discussion and avoiding giving any stances a pretty universal scumtell.
Dunn: Not a lot to go on, but seems genuine in the content he has. town lean
Vax: Town, as stated in my last post.


I get that you'd rather not mislynch, but surely you see that putting the two upcoming deaths in Town's hands completely is better than leaving it influenced by Scum? We should all just agree to 0 the top two vote getters for today. I'm willing to go on record agreeing to it now. I'll 0 the two top vote getters today.

How do I know scum doesn't want to give someone an all 0?

And why are you voting based on who gets votes by others? What if it was one of your poorly articulated townreads? Your posting is noncomittal and easy to flow with.

Re-read PP and I don't see anything that jumps out to me as particularly scummy, and I'm not going to re-read all of Taly's posts. I still think it's not TvT though.

I suppose if I'm going to endorse pseudolynches I should vote. VOTE: espe.

THIS is what I'm talking about.

>

You case a shit-ton of WIFOM on

Me/PP

>

You reread, and then weakly, weakly say that

PP

isn't scummy. But his post is what made you think this wasn't TvT?

>

You openly state that you don't want to reread my posts at all. So even though I'm supposedly this BIG question mark to you, you don't care to absolve that.

Instead, you push the easy-

Espe

-scumread.

There's just nothing in the motive of your posts that actually entail that you want to gamesolve or find conclusions conducive to aiding the gamestate.

[Taly]

Spoiler: Me Line-By-Lining TBGs 285, get the popcorn out people.

This is a scum post. Let's dissect it!

I'll probably make a longer post later but here are my brief thoughts:

I mean, you haven't expanded much on the thoughts you're about to go into...

lmao @ vax wanting to kill me for the wang claim - I'm not even mad, it's too funny. Vax is probably Town because I think that's a crazy push for Scum to make.

1)

You say

Vax

is town, but instead of telling him why his push on you is wrong, you laugh at his reasons. Disingenuous and clearly not oriented into gamesolving.

2)

Your reason for his push being bad is that it's crazy for scum to push it? What? It just sounds like you're injecting your own bias to strengthen your means of discrediting him.

Do you know for a fact scum would be crazy to push you? Because you're pretty blatantly anti-town with the reason posts.

I definitely see resisting the pseudolynch as a ProScum play - PP and Taly both get shade for this.

Have you READ my posts?

At what point have I EVER gone with the idea that a psuedolynch option is bad? What the hell? I've been voting and ranking and giving suggestions of how town should work together, and this comment heavily implies you're not even listening to it.

Chara's townread on me doesn't seem genuine - they've given themselves an "out" to it every time they've posted and I find it weird that I've consistently sat at lukewarm town without moving.

Why do you keep weakening all the townreads on you? Like, you're casting uncertainty and suspicion while townreading someone? Maybe you know they're town for a fact, but you want a free mislynch when it's optimal for you?

This isn't town.

Also, it's convenient for you that you talk about

Chara

when he posts about ME.

previewedit: PP's last post makes me feel that PP v Taly is not TvT. Dunno which one is the Scum yet, though. I'll catch that on re-read.

...Where do I begin with this?

1)

Thanks for the mid-D1 dichotomy. Must be great to cast as much WIFOM as possible for you, right? Helps that scum-wincon.

4)

2)

You never said why TvT isn't possible between us.

3)

You casted shade on BOTH of us WITHIN this post, yet you're going to imply that one of us is scum, and the other is town? Wtf?

4)

The whole fencesitting on us is fake; you're looking at an opportunity to push a side of our 1v1 that BENEFITS YOU. You've displayed no real read on

PP

or myself, and this comment is very, very destructive to town congealing.

Or you could stop being condescending in giant text? Seriously, it's obnoxious, and I'm already sick of you doing it.

I don't get what the issue is with using terminology if it helps convey meaning. It's not like this is a newbie game. You all know what it means

Is this your way of trying to downplay my intentions, again?

I sincerely don't understand what you're trying to get at with this. Clarify?

If you think using poorly-defined buzzwords like

OMGUS and LAMIST

accurately display your thought process and paints a good picture for town that DOESN'T cause uncertainty,

then you need to rethink your approach here, critically.

Being condescending is the last thing I'm intending right now - your 'criticisms' are not easy to understand or engage with, and the more you keep posting in this muddy-gray area alongside this, the more I scumread you.

[Taly]

3 page tops.

I'm good at this.

[Taly]

Me officially searching for that townbloc.

[Taly]

lmfao whoops

[Taly]

someone who isn't me, give me your thoughts on 307

I’m rethinking my read on him now because of it.

Where's the direction of your read going? What makes you rethink that?

I actually think

DV

brought up valid points in 307 on

TGB

, and I agree with the reasons behind his read there.

~

DV

, now that my tunnel on

TBG and PP

has temporarily calmed down; what was your

original

plan?

Change of plan. The time is actually now! (Plans to do something else ended up falling through)

And what about

TBG

made you change that thought process?

[Taly]

DV

, now that my tunnel on

TBG and PP

has temporarily calmed down; what was your

original

plan?

Change of plan. The time is actually now! (Plans to do something else ended up falling through)

And what about

TBG

made you change that thought process?

At least half the questions you ask give me the sense that you're not thinking very deeply about why players do things before you ask the question.

Not very true.

I just don't think and approach the game like you would.

I ask questions to help better my perception on a read, or the gamestate. Even if the questions were answered to an extent, and even if they seem like they don't accomplish anything. They have a purpose.

They help

me

gamesolve, which could help others gamesolve by having people spew content, and it allows me to work with other players more.

Just because I'm consistently asking for an answer doesn't mean I'm not thinking critically about the presented information.

And yeah, sometimes I can be very surface-level and overlook details about what someone has said, but that doesn't mean I'm not paying attention. Also, I'm quick to admit this, I don't have infallible logic, but I do my best to strengthen it.

~~~

But since you want to talk about questions, do you think the ones I posed to

Screen and DV

are valid?

And what are your thoughts on

Screen, DV, and TBG

at the moment?

[Taly]

this is me taking up less space for a few pages so i can evaluate my pushes and other people more in depth without tunnel-vision and without congesting the thread.

fuck, im hard-containing myself atm.

will get to another full ranking soon tho

[Taly]

OK, maybe

TBG's

not scum based off skimmg, but I'm going to reply to them later, maybe even tomorrow - because I think today's going to be a busy today for me.

Fire

, do you have any reads that don't last longer than 10+ pages?

Still not fond of

PP

.

I want to hear

Pun's

explanations for reads before I make an assessment or post a question.

Chara

is someone I'm officially soul-melding with right now.

Where's

Pine

? Also, very much disagree with

OMGUS and LAMIST

being helpful buzzwords. I've only heard scum say them, and/or town that either contributes to a town loss, or the near event of it happening.

WIFOM is basically my existence in Mafia, so...

Who's

Reuben

again? lol,

Nico's

in this game?

I'll put

Maria

out of a town???-read when she explains herself.

I like that everyone is starting to congeal with reads, that'll clear things up for me when I look back in depth.

~~~

Spoiler: Going to nip this misconception about me in the game right now. ("Taly is ignorant/faking it") Read if you care.

Also, the notion that

"

Taly

is ignorant/faking it"

and that is a means of dismissing and ignoring me in this game is:

1)

Wrong.

2)

Beneficial to scum.

3)

Not well documented.

4)

Dividing.

5)

Based off playstyle disagreements.

6)

Beneficial to scum.

7)

Wrong.

Another thing, what does

"read between the lines"

even mean D1? There's no

CONCRETE

information. No flip. In this game, no actual wagons.

So what do I even go off of if I'm not engaging with people? What

IS

there to conclude besides what I'm engaging

WITH

?

How can you

"read into something"

when there's no facts to go off of? I'm asking questions that would help me when I

REFERENCE

D1 later in this game.

I don't ignore meta; I just don't have a lot of it based on the playerlist. Tonereads don't really happen for me. Just because I ask a question that doesn't help

SOMEONE ELSE

; doesn't mean it's fake or unnecessary to

ME

.

The more people tell me my questions are

"silly"

or

"fake"

, the less I view them as pro-town. And the more people cultivate this mentality that I'm being disingenuous by

ENGAGING

, is good for scum to twist for their convenience later.

~~~

Anyway, I'm going to probably fade away for the next 50-100 posts and then thats when I'll get to major replies and a big-picture readslist.

[Taly]

The more people tell me my questions are "silly" or "fake", the less I view them as pro-town.

You think your question to DV wasn't "silly"? Explain.

No, I don't think it's silly. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked?

I already said I agreed with some points

DV

brought up at the time. I wanted to know what he was originally thinking before he made his post. 307

It wasn't the only initial thought I had about his post, but it was the question I wanted answered so I can understand his thought process more.

[Taly]

@Pine

[Taly]

@PenguinPower

[Taly]

ok so ive given the game some breathing room.

im climbing out of the pity-party i held for myself the past day

i want to solve this game.

readslist tonight after i take brother to work, write some, and make a few life calls; you guys can hold me to it.

[Taly]

I wish I had more clarity at the moment.

I'm heavily debating on even posting a readslist, with the more I think about the gamestate.

My rankings are slowly becoming about

"Reads AND Interactions"

instead of concrete reads

I'm still typing up my major post though.

[Taly]

So instead of being a complete eye and read pain, I'm going to spoiler my questions and non-quoted answers to each individual.

Each spoiler contains thoughts I have on almost every angle of the gamestate, so....

I'm also keeping the spoilers concise and to the point.

Spoiler: TehBrawlGuy

In hindsight, my arguments toward you weren't as well thought out as I believed.

Given your recent posts, I can actually see town-motivation behind you not giving a lot of information about your reads, and you being uncertain about Me/PP - even though I'm town, and a dichotomy D1 is really unhelpful here. While I think it's towny, I don't think we should lie or make our numbers randomized in any part of our list.

Town needs to congeal on lower numbers, but it is easy for scum to blend behind this plan. I do agree scum can overpower with numbers, but with accountability D2, don't you think it's far-fetched that scum would be so similar, if not the same as each other in ranking?

1)

Why do you think

PP

is most likely scum with his role?

2)

Nahdia

has disagreed with you BOTH on your plans for the day, and

PP's

alignment, but what makes you think they're town?

3)

Who would you recommend having as a 0 for the day?

4)

Stop with the WIFOM on

me/PP

. What about his posts ping you, and why are you uncertain of your read over me?

5)

How do you feel about the sudden surge of town-ish reads coming to you?

Spoiler: Fire Assassain

It's funny you say

Chara's

reads D1 aren't high quality even though you're dead wrong about me.

I asked you in my other post about how your reads have progressed, but you haven't moved on or expanded on your scumread with

Me/Espe

and you continue to not provide more content aside from replies.

Do you have any ideas on how town should plan for the ranking phase? Any insight on the current pushes or thoughts?

Spoiler: Chara

1)

What is your read on

Fire and PP

?

2)

What do you think about

Maria

postponing her thoughts on you?

I see why lying is helpful, but I also can easily see how that would confuse town in discussion D2. Scum can, and are probably lying now. Other than accountability, honesty, and interactions, town has nothing to discern what's true and not.

So do you think lying is better than us ultimately choosing someone to give a collective 0 over?

Spoiler: PenguinPower

Why are you only seemingly interested in my posts and your claim so far? Your ISO is almost entirely about these two things so far, and I don't know why you keep your vote on me when you're not expanding on your thoughts over me, or discussing your reads.

I've decided that I am enough of a negatively utility at this point that I'm going to claim.

I'm Shadoweh. Conditional Ascetic Townie with the passive that no actions from someone ranked lower than me can affect me, including night kills. This is why I suspected Punreader's BP claim.

Since I'm likely to be ranked low...claiming seemed to be beneficial.

Can you clarify how

Pun's

BP claim makes you suspect him given your role?

Are you wary he'd have NKed you if you were higher than you in ranking? Because I'm not sure why he would? And why is you claiming this role out of the gate beneficial for town right now?

He hinted at a second condition, but not an action. So do you think his claim could more likely be from scum? You stated that you wanted to reassess him but you never followed up with that.

Spoiler: Espeonage

1)

How do you feel about multiple people suspecting

DV

at the moment?

2)

Can you elaborate on why you don't see the

PP

scumreads? Because so far, he's my most solid scumread, and while that can change, it's still one of the best I've got for a potential 0.

3)

Do you have any scumreads? I haven't seen much of you explaining them here.

4)

What mode of action do you think town should take for this day?

5)

How do you feel about

Nahdia

wanting to end the day quickly, and

TBG's

response to it?

Spoiler: Screenplay

I'm wary that all the claims in this thread have not been all town-motivated.

1)

Give me your thoughts and assessment of

Pun

and

PP's

claims.

2)

What do you think of

Shoshin

?

3)

Do you think we have deepwolfs at the moment?

4)

Why are you unsure about

DV's

post after some thought?

5)

Talk to me about

Nahdia

and

Pine

. I don't quite know how to read them yet.

Spoiler: Dunnstral

I didn't come here for 0's

I didn't come here for 0's either, but that's not going to show people that I'm actually town and I shouldn't be given them.

1)

What is your stance on

Chara

, as well as

MariaR

not giving reads on you both in depth?

2)

Do you have any scumreads?

Talk to me about

Shoshin

, I see the curiosity there but I don't know why people aren't doing much about it.

Can you sell me on why I SHOULDN'T give

Fire

below a 5?

Pine,

I WOULD spoiler my post to you but you've been extremely open with posting random GIFs and creating content that I could've said myself, so I'm making sure you see this post and reply to it.

Has

Penguin's

claim changed your read about them?

Nahdia,

welcome!

I read through your ISO and nodded a lot; but why is

PP's

claim towny?

[Taly]

I don't think I've ever really played like this in a game before ._.

[Taly]

Lying is

ONLY

fine done in reasonable doses,

UNTIL

D2.

I may post a readslist, but it may be slightly different from my rankings.

I may post rankings, but it may be subject to change in some form.

I feel weird and sucky for not coming to the thread WITH an elaborate readslist, but I'm not sure how helpful a ranking list would be at this point.

[Taly]

It'd also be nice that

Vax/Espe/Fire/Dunn

all gave thoughts on each other; they don't have to give thoughts on the person they want to have a high score, tho

[Taly]

k taly spoke not vote
VOTE: end day
ty

Were you expecting me to do something?

[Taly]

they don't have to give thoughts on the person they want to have a high score, tho

and by this, I meant based on claims/roles

[Taly]

Taly, if you have an updated reads list, I'd like to see it. Also, I'm confused by the whole "reads don't equal rankings" warning plus your bit about lying - I'm guessing you're worried about scum manipulation of rankings but that's not helpful - our #1 goal needs to be finding the scum, not preventing scum manipulation, and that means posting honestly and as much information as necessary to help us identify you (or whoever) as town (or scum). I mean, at this point it's fairly clear you're not dying tonight, but still, don't set a bad example for others who we really need to post more and to post honestly.

You're correct about my concern, and I see the point you're making about town needing to be honest here.

I'm probably not going to die via ranking

But I have no clue on whether I'd be an NK target or not

I haven't officially written a readslist yet, though I have a better idea of my reads than I did throughout most of the day so far, but I'll think a bit more about my reads and give you what I'm most confident about tomorrow if people don't quick end-day.

I'm strongly against ending the day early.

I strongly advise for it before apathy sets in and people second guess there reads
I rather have an early day that everyone feels confident on then a long day that is pathy

I've already started second-guessing to some degree, tbh. :/

Taly: PP's claim is functionally a counterclaim to Punreader. That's why they're both getting 0s from me. Neither of them are strong utility to Town, and they're especially not useful post-claim.

I'm happy to eliminate them now.

Kinda what I implied earlier, and my role is mostly anti-town at this point. I'm good with this.

...Yeah... I can see why you'd say this as scum AND even town, but it's so foreign to how I play... Ugh. :/ If you're town, I really wouldn't want you to be OK with being eliminated, it just sounds like a waste for town.

But if you're scum, you're submitting to being killed? trbwefwwrtbgseafrsrbefawfghfgbdfvdsfeavfe

Taly.exe

has stopped working.

Can you reply to my previous post to you?

[Taly]

Spoiler: PenguinPower

Why are you only seemingly interested in my posts and your claim so far? Your ISO is almost entirely about these two things so far, and I don't know why you keep your vote on me when you're not expanding on your thoughts over me, or discussing your reads.

This part is struck out given your recent posts.

I've decided that I am enough of a negatively utility at this point that I'm going to claim.

I'm Shadoweh. Conditional Ascetic Townie with the passive that no actions from someone ranked lower than me can affect me, including night kills. This is why I suspected Punreader's BP claim.

Since I'm likely to be ranked low...claiming seemed to be beneficial.

Can you clarify how

Pun's

BP claim makes you suspect him given your role?

Are you wary he'd have NKed you if you were higher than you in ranking? Because I'm not sure why he would? And why is you claiming this role out of the gate beneficial for town right now?

He hinted at a second condition, but not an action. So do you think his claim could more likely be from scum? You stated that you wanted to reassess him but you never followed up with that.

[Taly]

@TehBrawlGuy

[Taly]

Honestly, I can't tell if I'm really just stupid or I need to generally tweak my meta at this point

If my comprehension of the game is so bad that it seems like all of my content so far is fluff and my questions/replies mean so little, I need to change my perspective here.

[Taly]

5) Nothing much, really. Relieved a bit. Basically, what should happen did happen, so there's not a lot to say on it. The points at my earlier posts were solid, the rest was bullshit, and I've been pretty helpful to Town since. I feel like all three of those are being generally acknowledged, so we're good.
What were you expecting me to say about this? I don't know what you're trying to get at.

Because like MOST reads in this game, they happen very quickly and right next to another person's similar read.

So it seems pretty sensible to ask or gauge the point of a read when it blends in with the rest of the game.

[Taly]

blah

What were you going to say last night and why were you waiting for my post?

[Taly]

the worst

, can you give me a less-biased-than-myself view of

TBG's

posts?

Do you have any preference or ending the day or actively not ending it?

[Taly]

Taly, if you have an updated reads list, I'd like to see it. Also, I'm confused by the whole "reads don't equal rankings" warning plus your bit about lying - I'm guessing you're worried about scum manipulation of rankings but that's not helpful - our #1 goal needs to be finding the scum, not preventing scum manipulation, and that means posting honestly and as much information as necessary to help us identify you (or whoever) as town (or scum). I mean, at this point it's fairly clear you're not dying tonight, but still, don't set a bad example for others who we really need to post more and to post honestly.

With each page going by, my reads are becoming more volatile.

((More liable to fluctuate))

There's multiple people wanting to end the day, and there's multiple people wanting to prolong it each for different reasons, and I'm pretty sure town is on both sides of this train of thought - so without flips, I can't so easily deduce what's more likely town-motivated or scum-motivated.

Plus, if one of

Pun/PP

flip town, I'm going to be a bit annoyed...

Townbloc, in order of degree

Chara:

Takes a moment to think before he makes a read. Gives opinions without pushing hard or not pushing much at all. 293 explains his approach to this game very well, he reacts in order to understand other players in a conversation, and many of their recent posts take into the account of scum's advantages in this game and how we could avert that.

the worst:

Scum-TW wouldn't post 536 because he genuinely outlined a new perception about me, after he went ahead to try and dispel the "sort me later" sentiment. 300, I'd think Scum-TW would've actively kept the uncertainty on my slot going. TW's posting in this game is very stream-of-consciousness that's oriented in gamesolving. 262 is another goodpost because he takes into account of Screenplay being scumread in relation to his read, so he's aware of the stances around him, and thinking critically before he adds his own.

Shoshin:

Even though I don't quite agree with the idea of prolonging the day to be very useful right now, I actually like the reasoning they stated for prolonging the day. We need solidity in the town and cohesion, and Shoshin's not only advocated for that mentality, but also posed questions and thoughts that build onto themselves.

Nico:

Easy policy bait. Plus, I've seen them play this terribly as town before, and with the same type of posts. This could be scum, but I really can't find a strong or valid argument for it. I feel like this is more likely easier for scum to push.

These are the few both-confident and both-solid townreads.

I have several other townreads, but I'm still thinking about them

*cough* MariaR, Screenplay *cough* Nahdia, DV *cough*

[Taly]

blah

What were you going to say last night and why were you waiting for my post?

VOTE: End Day

[Taly]

So I just found who I'll give one of my 10s, and who I'll give one of my 0s

My confidence is this game has been somewhat rescued

[Taly]

If it gives you guys insight into my thought process right now,

Pun

is getting one of my 10s

Speccing a multiball in D1 with this mechanic is scumtalk

The more I reread

Pun

and read his new posts, my original read on him makes more sense.

So far, the biggest reason that I'll say is that I don't see

Pun

-scum claiming and then expanding onto it for clarity like this.

[Taly]

I'm slowly getting over my in-game frustration right now guys...

[Taly]

want a cup of tea?

and less

"

Taly

isn't providing substance"

in replies to me

~

do you think we should be treating

PP/Pun

as different alignments? Because if so, I feel very weird putting both of them at a 0, because that's just if this is true, we're killing off a town ability and scum.

Which isn't necessarily bad as opposed to 2 mislynches, but is there an argument for both of them being town? Because half the playerlist is divided on these players, and nobody's bringing up the option of them being town.

And what if they were both scum?

This is why I hate dichotomies early-game, and I'm annoyed if

Pun/PP

had town amongst them. :/

And that's why I can't townread

PP's

mentality of

"as long this guy dies, I'm OK with dying"

[Taly]

Pine

is easily my most volatile read in the game right now

[Taly]

I'm slowly getting over my in-game frustration right now guys...

I find that it's really tempting to take the game super seriously and sometimes I need to take a step back and just take a more relaxed approach to things.

Eh

I get frustrated when my impact on the game becomes minimized.

And when I think there's a big lack of cohesion happening.

Honestly, I might just start lurking through each of my D1's and then come back D2 and powerlynch scum with a fresh view of the game.

That worked in

Maria's Anime Binge (a completed game)

lol

[Taly]

Can I not like and like pun at the same time?

This is me and half the playerlist

[Taly]

If rankings lists were compulsory and open I might agree with you. They aren't, so the D1 mechanic is not anywhere close to being better than the traditional wagons/voting.

The fact that the mod is tracking meaningless votes is...meaningless.

PP

, can you take less time minimizing the progression of this game so far and respond to any of the townreads on

Pun

and suspicion on you?

Because you saying that you're OK with dying as long as you have another claimed-ability die with you makes 0 sense for me to think you're town.

And

Pun's

read on you wasn't specifically meta, I reread and he made a light associative argument with you in 552. I don't know how much water that holds, but you have this trend in your gameplay so far where you disregard an attempt to absolve curiosity and discussion around you.

-

You disregard my vote, state votes are meaningless repeatedly, and then vote me when I push you 284

-

Your major response to me after that post is 356 where even though I wasn't being very rational, you didn't really give your thoughts on the understood 1v1 between us

-

625 you continue to say that Ascetic is usually anti-town, but the alignment of that role varies, and you ignore an opportunity to reread

Pun

because he's meta-reading you, which I've already stated isn't the full case.

I can see your claim and mechanic to be pro-town, but nothing else in your gameplay suggests that to me.

It seems optimal to keep you alive, but if you're wanting to be ranked higher and milk the benefit of your claim, I figured you would be more forthcoming.

[Taly]

Can I not like and like pun at the same time?

This is me and half the playerlist

o/

Tell me I'm not going crazy

[Taly]

Because

Pine

is the strongest anti-busser pun player on the site. He will distance. He'll even vote a punbuddy. He might 'bus' in the sense that he'll pine after a punbuddy who makes sense to push but given the slightest excuse he'll abort it if he sees an opportunity to let the punbuddy live. And he sees opportunities even where by all rights none should be. By that I mean he sees a chance to abort a bus where other players insist to continue one.

This is particularly pertinent given

PenguinPower

. If you assume

PenguinPower

is pun, then 253 is perfect distancing. Given the first opportunity, he reverses the read to being a townread. And his other noteworthy townread?

TehBrawlGuy

. The two players in the game aside from

Pine

, most likely to be pun, and

Pine

townreads them.

I say it's a light associative because it only takes into account 1 person's posting, it's D1, and it goes on the assumption that all of his major scumreads are correct.

But it's there.

[Taly]

meh... I'm waiting for

Espe

to post so I can vote to end this day...

[Taly]

Is ANYONE besides

Pun

familiar with

PP

?

[Taly]

[Taly]

meh... I'm waiting for

Espe

to post so I can vote to end this day...

Gonna be waiting at least 4 hours for when my boss leaves and I can actually read properly.

I'll be in bed no more than an hour from now

So I guess I'll reply/vote in the morning

[Taly]

VOTE: End Day

[Taly]

<3 dw

lovebird

im town this game

[Taly]

yeah, after D1 ends there will be a ranking phase

almost half the playerlist wants to just end the day because theres not much else to discuss from the viewpoint of multiple people

and several other players - myself included to a degree - have been increasingly wary with divulging reads or thoughts EoD1 due to scum having a potentially strong impact on the rankings, numerically

we dont lynch, but vaux votes are viable

we have 3 days left but some people dont want apathy or confusion to set in so

*shrugs*

[Taly]

10) Taly
10) Chara
10) Punreader

9) the worst
8) Shoshin
7) Screenplay
6) DeasVail
6) MariaR
5) TehBrawlGuy
5) Pine
4) Nahdia
4) NicoRobin
3) Lovebird
2) Dunnstral
1) Fire Assassain

0) Espeonage
0) Vaxkiller
0) PenguinPower

I'm kicking myself in the ass for placing

Lovebird/Nico

so further down the line now. X_x

I thought my rationale for

Nico

being town would make people place her higher. Ultimately, her score was due to me townreading other people, and questioning how dignified my 1v1s were in D1.

I'm looking at you

TBG

.

I'm very iffy on why people placed

Lovebird

in a 0, at all. She basically didn't have time to give anything - and other than gauging for clarity over the

Reuben

slot, I can see

Lovebird

being low based on PoE, but not a definitive 0.

I ISO grouped

Espe/Fire/Vax/Dunn

AND ISOed them individually. My numbers for them fluctuated a lot, especially in light of their group-centered claim. I rated all of them lowly because I couldn't form a solid read and the more reread, I kept questioning myself. If ANY OF THEM would've flipped, it would've given me insight into the other players in the group.

But that didn't happen.

~~~

Pine where you at here with scum/town

Your usually more opinionated... but i ... have missed some.

I started trying to score people earlier based on reads, but there's just a giant gulf in the middle because half the playerlist is lurky as fuck.

MariaR, DeasVail, Espeonage, Dunnstral, Nahdia, ReubenWasFine, Vaxkiller, the worst, NicoRobin, Srceenplay, Shoshin

10-Pine
10-TehBrawlGuy
10-Chara
9-Taly
8-Fire Assassin
7
6
6
5
5
4
4
3
2
1
0-Nahdia
0-Penguin Power
0-Punreader

With

Pine

being the NK, this is the game's most important post.

[Taly]

:/ I smell a deepwolf.

[Taly]

Oh my god I need to stop skimming

[Taly]

Oh So the NK probably didn't come through.

I'm very happy now

[Taly]

I'm still wrapping my head around why

PP

was ranked high

I don't the towreads on

PP

, and I'm getting pretty annoyed that nobody's said a thing to me about this.

And yeah, I wasn't a fan of

Pine

's posts, but I gave him a 5 because

"he's probably town that I'm iffy on"

like

TBG

I don't think scum would so openly place 2 claims to 0s. Another thing is,

Pine

townread people that scumread each other.

So I'm worried that town is divided at the moment, and scum have taken advantage of that.

[Taly]

I kinda relate to PP's d1 gamestate frustration
not enough for a hard TR but I think it's town indicative
He also stated strong dislike for d1, if I'm bored sometime I'll check whether he normally comes across the way he did as town

What's the likelihood that these 3 are all town

PP/Fire/TBG

and my reads have just been a garbage fire of shit this game?

[Taly]

My biggest issue with

Fire

is that he's kept a page 4 gut scumread on me/Espe throughout this game and has actively decided not to expand on that.

His townreads have been vague, and his play is almost so divisive it could be town, but I can't think it is. I'm usually RIGHT with at least ONE of my D1 1v1s.

actually solid I didn't read your list before

why hard TR pine and scumread like Taly and Maria?

Because Pine was town? I don't know how you didn't see it, maybe you weren't interacting with him? Maybe that's why I didn't see anything from MariaR, I didnt interact with them. Taly scares me, im getting scum vibes again. MariaR was just leftover when I put the list together, I didnt want to bump anyone down

If I were scum, do you honestly think my MULTIPLE 1v1 halves would still be alive?

I'm a WIFOM basket by playstyle. But it's good that you're perpetuating that notion.

I'm a bit done with being doubtcasted consistently this game :/

And you threw

Maria

so low because... w/e???

[Taly]

I'm soul-melding with

TW

at the moment.

[Taly]

kfam <3

Also, if I were scum, half of my posts in this game wouldn't exist LOL

I don't give people leverage to scumread me as scum.

[Taly]

Sacred Townybloc

Chara
the worst
Taly

I want to hear more rankings and that

Pine

-vig explanation from

Pun

before I extend this.

[Taly]

OK maybe

TBG

truly is town

[Taly]

OK maybe I was onto something when I gave

Vax

a 0

[Taly]

Vax

, have you read any of my posts?

Also, I kind of want to see why I give scum-vibes to you magically after I gave my rankings.

[Taly]

Egh. Not doing this whole tunnel thing, but still. And I'm gonna try to drop the "bitchy" tone a bit this dayphase.

@brawl I made it well known I wanted you dead yesterday, I feel like you are pushing in all the wrong places, like wanting to lynch the easy lurkers. You are going after the low hanging fruit.

I'm also not opposed to giving lurkers low-scores,

Guess this was Taly and not you.

But writing D1-me off as wanting to lynch easy lurkers is an unapologetically wrong statement at best.

[Taly]

I'm still wrapping my head around why PP was ranked high

I don't get the townreads on PP, and I'm getting pretty annoyed that nobody's said a thing to me about this.

edited for coherency
quoted for relevancy

[Taly]

I mean, it's not like you've really given reads that much in this game.

You never really pushed a scumread other than

TBG

Plus, you're actually active in the game now, that's more than what I can say D1. You also posted your rankings after me, and out of other people's rankings at the moment, I'm interested in the reasoning behind yours. Mostly your

PP/Pun/Pine

rankings.

Are you going to respond to 944?

Also,

Pun

has claimed vig for about 200-300 posts.

[Taly]

Egh. Not doing this whole tunnel thing, but still. And I'm gonna try to drop the "bitchy" tone a bit this dayphase.

@brawl I made it well known I wanted you dead yesterday, I feel like you are pushing in all the wrong places, like wanting to lynch the easy lurkers. You are going after the low hanging fruit.

I'm also not opposed to giving lurkers low-scores,

Guess this was Taly and not you.

But writing D1-me off as wanting to lynch easy lurkers is an unapologetically wrong statement at best.

Seems good to me. I dunno want you want here. Are your scum reads like confirmed scum or something? This game FORCES you do rate people and that is what I did. brawl and yourself are not conf scum nor peopel I feel SUPER strong about, but I feel MORE strongly taht you are scum over the other people listed including lurkers.

[Taly]

Maybe

Vax

, just maybe, if your scumreads aren't strong after 40 pages of content and fucking lists/claims/flips being made

Maybe your reads aren't accurate and you need to reevaluate? Because they aren't. -_-

I'm surprised by your apathy

Vax

. I thought you'd be far more on top for gamesolving here and yet it seems like you're openly not trying.

-

You completely disregarded my response to you in 944, you ignored that a second time when I referenced it in 949

-

Your reads right now hold almost no substance. It CAN be said that your reads have not changed much at all in this game, and you still haven't pushed them

-

You're stating scumreads now without pushing them, in general. You also don't interact or voice townreads, so it's easy for you to say things like

"WHY TF DID YOU SHOOT

PINE?

"

-

The fact that you haven't paid attention to the vig claim after it being pointed out to you tells me that you actually knew about it and still didn't want to comment. Either that, or you just don't care. Both are anti-town at best.

-

You also didn't know about this "claim" and yet you placed

Pun/PP

both at a 5, and placed

Pine

, the person 0ing both of them, at a 10?

I thought

PP

was most likely scum here. But with

Vax's

posting this dayphase, I'm starting to rethink that.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Your play is easy to be scum, and unhelpful if you're town.

[Taly]

VOTE: Maria

Why

Maria

and not

PP

or

Vax

?

And what do you think about the

DV

and

Fire

votes on

Espe

?

~~~

@TBG

Can you tell me your perspective on

PP

being obvscum? If I read your plaintext correctly?

[Taly]

PP

and

Fire

are up there for scum.

Do you think these two are likely scum? Or if there's town here?

Though, part of my scumread on these two is mainly their reply to me when I'm trying to figure them out and work with them.

I feel like I'm scumread solely as an excuse to NOT engage with me. I cannot be the only person that thinks this.

~

And yeah, I can see

Vax

being town... I feel like I need to pull teeth though...

Why is

Vax

town to you,

Maria

?

[Taly]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PenguinPower

TehBrawlGuy
5. DeasVail
7. Dunnstral
8. Nahdia
11. Shoshin
12. Fire Assassin
17. PenguinPower

Explain why these aren't townreads,

Maria

[Taly]

I feel like I'm scumread solely as an excuse to NOT engage with me. I cannot be the only person that thinks this.

I'll second this actually
not convinced people are reading your posts here

EVEN QUACKERS GETS IT. <3

[Taly]

[Taly]

lol wtf i p-edit during a shitpost and all the content magically happens now

[Taly]

I'm ok with this one

VOTE: Fire Assassin

pedit: lmfao Taly r u durnk

<3

Yeah, and I actually liked

PP

in that post.

VOTE: Fire Assassain

4th vote on the wagon

[Taly]

I've talked about all of it already, but it's a combination of him being against pseudolynch and his interactions with you early, and then later, his claim and the circumstances surrounding his claim.

He's probably my top scumread ATM. I'm still debating who exactly I want to push for the day, but regardless, I can't really see any situation where I'm not at least OK with PP swinging today.

Talk to me about post 970

[Taly]

Shoshin

, talk to me about 970 too, and about

Fire

[Taly]

Mmm. I was debating on 970 potentially coming from town, I was wondering if

PP

was faking a lot in D1 since it 970 seemed like he had an idea of the general gamestate and wasn't going to give much information. I also don't know why he'd dignify the stance of people scumreading him here.

...But then again... the slight voice in my head telling me that

PP

could be town from that post sounded BETTER while it was in my head, versus me typing this out right now. ._.

I'm not sure of

PP

either way atm, and I do scumlean them. But I wasn't sure about

Fire

, hence my vote change.

I think

Fire's

more likely truthful with his claim here.

VOTE: Espeonage

Also, didn't

TBG

say that he put me a low number solely because he didn't think I'd need numbers? I see this coming from town more often?

TBG

, what's your read on me?

[Taly]

Tbh, I've been admittedly votehopping the past 2 pages because literally most everything else I've done at this point in the game has not acquired the most desirable results geared towards solving it.

[Taly]

Also, didn't TBG say that he put me a low number solely because he didn't think I'd need numbers? I see this coming from town more often?

Why do you see this as coming from town? I'm not sure I understand the mindset behind that.

I highly doubt Taly is scum, TBG.

Why are you telling me this? I don't scumread Taly. I weakly townread Taly.

Um...votes on D1 meant shit (as I am still here!). 1 vote isn't a wagon regardless of those who "intend" to vote (since intending to vote means shit, except when bolded and they are at L-1 <- gotta be true to my newbies)

Try again.

Shoshin is probs town.

From your rankings list, you think me and Taly are scum together. I'd like to hear more about that, especially the D1 motivation.

No. Go read the not shitty sheets version, which should spell it out more clearly. The plaintext garbage is just to keep a permanent log so I can't cheat by editing the sheet.

I gave Taly a low score because I wanted to maximize the chances that you/espe/nico died, which meant I had to give my other bad scores to people at low risk of dying. Taly was pretty universally townread, so I figured he would be a safe place to park it.

Yes, I can see

TBG

from a scum-perspective here by wanting to solidify a kill a towny.

HOWEVER.

((omg, im actually making a post saying

TBG

could be towny here))

TBG

knew that I was probably very safe given the playerlist's view of me in D1, and even now.

There wasn't a lot of clarity for townies EoD1 for reads. We basically ended the day early FOR clarity via flips. My low scores on

Dunn/Vax/Espe/Fire

were both by PoE, and the uncertainty generated around their claim and individual play.

I didn't rank solely based on reads because I needed to think about what helped MY perception of the game.

TBG

did exactly this, too.

He was aware of people who were likely safe, and low scored them in order to gain his OWN clarity. In doing this, he kept people who he believed were more likely town to be safe, while shooting for his more confident reads that could be scum.

So yeah, my reasoning here could be a bit convoluted. But

TBG's

honesty with his thoughts in the game right now make me think he's coming from a towny mindset that's oriented in gamesolving.

I'm not sold on

TBG

being town, but that's just my thinking here.

[Taly]

Plus if

TBG

were scum, it would just seem so easy for his buddies to go on the

"kill-

PP

-via-ranking"

mentality.

And the fact that

PP and Espe

are still alive kind of make me think he was alone with this train of thought. Thus, more likely town.

[Taly]

I'm not locktowning TBG quite as hard as others but at this juncture I'd be really surprised if he was scum

omg

TW

, we are being a 2-slot in-thread hydra rn

<3

like we are synced AF

i will say, im questioning

PP

-scum a bit more now, but atm i want to lynch the guilty

[Taly]

@DV

No, I have very little experience with

Vax

. I've only played with him in

Echo Bat Grits

game where there was 42 players and ever kept shooting each other randomly.

It was a multiball.

lol, I already forgot

Vax's

alignment from that game, and I was in one of the scumteams there. He seemed more perceptive in that game.

But in any case, no, my read on

Vax

is not strongly based on that game with him. I don't know him enough. I can see how his lack of self-awareness is town, but I can just also easily see it come from scum.

[Taly]

because we are soul-binding

tw

. shhhhhhhh <3

[Taly]

lol but tbh, you're slowly becoming my

beeboy

-equivalent in this game.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75978

i soulread

beeboy

hard throughout most of that game - and it all started on page 3, and even though i contributed to his powerlynch later, i literally jumped into his pocket for the majority of that game and treated him like a mod-confirmed IC.

except this game, my soulread on you ISNT mostly gut,

TW

. so the likelihood of me doing a 180 is much more unlikely.

but even then, my initial gut/soulread that game was correct so like

i must be fuckin good at this

i have SOME town-exclusive strengths.

[Taly]

so yeah, u have officially pocketed me

TW

[Taly]

I'm fucking town you dumbasses and I can prove it tomorrow. Everyone is going to give Espe a 0. Who ever has teh the conditional vig (im busy ill look who later) is going to give us a list of 3 people max where he is going to shoot then we can talk some more and end the day.

WE AREN'T RANKING ANYMORE.

I AGREE WITH YOUR IDEA HERE BUT CAN YOU PLEASE READ

[Taly]

MECHANIC INFORMATION:
- Day 1 is lynchless and will end in 14 days unless a majority of players vote to end the day early.
- Between Day 1 and Night 1, a Ranking Phase will take place, wherein players send their rankings of players in the game in a PM to me. The ranking values are as follows:

{10, 10, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0}

In short, 3 tens, 3 zeros, 2 fours, 2 fives, and 2 sixes. You can do this by sending me assigned point values or a ranking from top to bottom (10 to 0). Keep in mind that in accordance with SUPP guidelines, one of the tens is for yourself.
- All scores will be privately averaged and ranked. Ties will be resolved by # of 10s, # of 9s, and so on.
- The lowest two ranked players will immediately die at the end of the Ranking Phase.

[Taly]

I have content to respond to, which I will in circa 12 hours.
DO NOT END THE DAY BEFORE I CAN EXPLAIN WHY I AM DOING THIS AND GIVE RESPONSES TO THE RESPONSES TO MY READS.

Claim: Conditional Bulletproof/Conditional Vigilante; the conditions are inverses.

I actually lied.
I DO have a conditional bulletproof, but it only protects me from those who are ranked HIGHER; I was aiming for an ungated Vig, with the illusion of being bp.

To explain, I can kill people ranked lower than I am, but they can kill me; I can't kill people ranked higher than me, but they can't kill me.

This is why PenguinPower is literally a punclaim.

Details for everything in 12 hours.

I've decided that I am enough of a negatively utility at this point that I'm going to claim.

I'm Shadoweh. Conditional Ascetic Townie with the passive that no actions from someone ranked lower than me can affect me, including night kills. This is why I suspected Punreader's BP claim.

Since I'm likely to be ranked low...claiming seemed to be beneficial.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

[Taly]

Votecount 2.1

Espeonage

(2): DeasVail, Fire Assassin

Vaxkiller

(1): the worst

Not Voting

(12): TehBrawlGuy, Taly, Punreader, MariaR/Chara, Espeonage, Dunnstral, Nahdia, Shoshin, Srceenplay, Vaxkiller, PenguinPower

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to achieve a majority.
Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-04 23:06:00)

Votecount 2.2

Fire Assassin

(4): PenguinPower, Dunnstral, the worst, Taly

Espeonage

(2): DeasVail, Fire Assassin

MariaR

(1): Shoshin

Not Voting

(8): TehBrawlGuy, Punreader, MariaR/Chara, Espeonage, Nahdia, Srceenplay, Vaxkiller

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to achieve a majority.
Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-04 23:06:00)

No issues with embedding images.

Votecount 2.3

Espeonage

(6): DeasVail, Fire Assassin, TehBrawlGuy, the worst, Taly, PenguinPower

Fire Assassin

(1): Dunnstral

MariaR

(1): Shoshin

Not Voting

(7): Punreader, MariaR/Chara, Espeonage, Nahdia, Srceenplay, Vaxkiller

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to achieve a majority.
Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-04 23:06:00)

[Taly]

Now, we are all friends

Vax

[Taly]

So.... are ranks permanent? Like the conditional vig will on be able to hit specific people for the rest of the game?

I think so but

@Mod, can you confirm this?

and OK, I think

Vax

is slightly more likely to be town now...

anyway gtg for a few hours bye

[Taly]

Fire

guiltied you, and we want a claim before you're hung

[Taly]

1) MariaR/Chara is intentional.

so

maria/chara

are conftown k

[Taly]

Why the fuck have I gotten so much shit for

"not reading the thread"

? Damn.

[Taly]

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

[Taly]

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

[Taly]

I don't know what a soft-guilty or a hard-guilty.

But it's pretty clear he said he a guilty so...

[Taly]

Like, what's the difference between the two?

[Taly]

Votecount 2.2

Fire Assassin

(4): PenguinPower, Dunnstral, the worst, Taly

Espeonage

(2): DeasVail, Fire Assassin

MariaR

(1): Shoshin

Not Voting

(8): TehBrawlGuy, Punreader, MariaR/Chara, Espeonage, Nahdia, Srceenplay, Vaxkiller

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to achieve a majority.
Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-04 23:06:00)

This is the wagon state when he claims the guilty. Espeonage isn't voting him but it's clear that he will, that's 5/8 to lynch. Fire was going to be the lynch for role related reasons at this point. I think he's fake claiming

Uh, yeah, I don't know about that.

Fire

said at the beginning of D2 he was waiting for EVERYONE to post before stating his results.

I have results from previous night, but i won't post till everyones checked in.

So yeah, I don't think he was waiting for being a wagon to do claim, and even if he did, I don't know how that necessarily constitutes a fakeclaim.

[Taly]

Vote: Fire

I find it super hard to believe that..
1. Shenanigans
and
2. I required a investigative to be in danger of artificially dying in voting phase.

1)

Shenanigans, what are you talking about?

2)

Umm... what's odd about

Fire

investigating his scumread?

Taly, it was take a bit of an idiot to not know it was going to be one of the group of 4 today.

And with Dunn being conf town that takes the pool down.

And with Vax being a non event that makes it Fire or me.

So you're saying

Fire

is lying and deliberately trying to get you lynched because

"haha, yay!"

?

We aren't changing our rankings, so if things are set in stone, I don't know why there would be any pushback to someone's ranking claim that would negate theirs.

[Taly]

Taly, it was take a bit of an idiot to not know it was going to be one of the group of 4 today.

And with Dunn being conf town that takes the pool down.

And with Vax being a non event that makes it Fire or me.

Why did you think I rated all of you low?

[Taly]

Hi, this is a thing.

For my role, I need Fire Assassin to be rated highly today

And I am the antithesis, I need him to do poorly.

But that's cool bc he scum.

So if your role/claim is solely ranking based, what's the scum-motivation behind

Fire

wanting to lynch you post-ranking?

Because if he's lying scum, he's asking to die D3. Because if his role mirrors yours based off presented info., he's essentially vanilla scum.

If he's town faking or lying, then he's debatably gamethrowing and I'd be very, very frustrated because I've seen town do this stupid stuff like this before, and this would probably end in his mislynch.

If he's town being truthful, then scum is lynched.

[Taly]

I missed something

How is

Dunn

conftown?

[Taly]

Before the cop guilty, I still don’t see why there had to be scum in your group of 4

But it’s also not important

Because mechanically, the group claims were counters based off ranking.

Unless the 4 group-centered roles of the town were all negative utilities.

Based off play, I'm nowhere near saying all 4 of them are town.

[Taly]

OK, based of

Dunn's

play there, you make a valid point

Espe

.

And to

Dunn

, I can see that...

Fire

never needed to pursue

Espe

, and I still don't get his 40-page-long scumread there

((or his BS scumread on me, which he seemed just as confident in))

, and a role-counter does not necessarily equate to an alignment difference.

I want the playerlist to weigh in on this.

[Taly]

UNVOTE: Espeonage

why unvote here?

I'm 2 seconds away from unvoting, but I won't revote anyone just yet. Should I or should I not?

[Taly]

UNVOTE: Espeonage

why unvote here?

I'm 2 seconds away from unvoting, but I won't revote anyone just yet. Should I or should I not?

don't unvote

thanks coach

TW

<3

[Taly]

going to ave all current scores and predict everyones rankings now then

and with this info., withdrawing any rankings is a scumclaim

[Taly]

Screen is the only ranking that hasn't been said so far, and he hasn't posted at all today.

So I think the average and placement I'll put everyone at will be relatively accurate

[Taly]

I'm doing the average's and kicking myself in the ass for ranking

Fire

low

also,

PP

wins an award for 0ing the most universal 10s and high scores, while high scoring the most low scores. I thought that was interesting

[Taly]

ugh, damnit. -_-

Fire

has 67 points to divide from.

Espe

has 69 points to divide from.

so we need screens rankings to decipher if the result was truthful or not.

but i do think

espe

is more likely scum here, but still.

[Taly]

oh wait,

Pine/Nico/LB

technically had their rankings in

i can def see

Pine

raising

Fire

up and idk why

Nico

or

LB

would upvote

Espe

, especially after his EoD1 posts

ugh, damnit. -_-

Fire

has 67 points to divide from.

Espe

has 69 points to divide from.

so we need screens rankings to decipher if the result was truthful or not.

but i do think

espe

is more likely scum here, but still.

my own calculations has something different than this.
Also I don't think screenplay submitted

I'm averaging from the 14 full-lists. I'm not 100% accurate

[Taly]

[Taly]

i need help lmao

[Taly]

UNVOTE:

[Taly]

Fire

didn't get any boost from

Nico

whereas

Espe

got 20.

Even with

Pine/Nico/Screen/LB's

votes, it's unlikely

Fire

came out with more votes.

but continue

TW

<3 my brain is honestly fried atm and i feel useless :/

[Taly]

having all rankings as close as possible is useful

but if you dont want to do all of those calculations we can do it again soon

bottom line is, if

espe

is definitively higher, then

fire's

result is misleading.

[Taly]

having all rankings as close as possible is useful

but if you dont want to do all of those calculations we can do it again soon

bottom line is, if

espe

is definitively higher, then

fire's

result is misleading.

this is assuming

Fire's

claim is real, in light of

Maria's

results/claim.



I'm going to shut up for now.

[Taly]

Ugh. I want to setup spec, but that's going to shove town further down a rabbit hole.

Just, with the amount of conflicting info in the thread, I cannot dismiss any claim or notion right now.

This type of situation is my personal hell as town. lol

There's too many variables to make a straightforward, valid assessment...

TBG

, you seem bothered by the unvoting on

Espe

, do you think he's scum without the claims/results?

Fire

, have you formulated your thoughts that lead to you thinking

Dunn

is scum yet?

Maria

, can you please outline why

Fire's

claim is BS and why it's odd to have 2 cops here?

PP

, what is difficult for you to digest about this entire situation?

DV

, with the recent pages, do you think it's more likely the entire group of 4 are all town?

(Espe/Dunn/Fire/Vax)

Espe

, we learned that

Fire

overlooked the

Nico

ranking, do you believe his claim is scum-motivated, or a town mistake?

Dunn

, given your vote, I'm assuming you believe

Maria

over

Fire

, why?

[Taly]

Ugh. I want to setup spec, but that's going to shove town further down a rabbit hole.

Just, with the amount of conflicting info in the thread, I cannot dismiss any claim or notion right now.

This type of situation is my personal hell as town. lol

There's too many variables to make a straightforward, valid assessment...

TBG

, you seem bothered by the unvoting on

Espe

, do you think he's scum without the claims/results?

Fire

, have you formulated your thoughts that lead to you thinking

Dunn

is scum yet?

Maria

, can you please outline why

Fire's

claim is BS and why it's odd to have 2 cops here?

PP

, what is difficult for you to digest about this entire situation?

DV

, with the recent pages, do you think it's more likely the entire group of 4 are all town?

(Espe/Dunn/Fire/Vax)

Espe

, we learned that

Fire

overlooked the

Nico

ranking, do you believe his claim is scum-motivated, or a town mistake?

Dunn

, given your vote, I'm assuming you believe

Maria

over

Fire

, why?

Making sure we all see this.

[Taly]

I need vax higher than fa

I need fa higher than vax

I've decided that I am enough of a negatively utility at this point that I'm going to claim.

I'm Shadoweh. Conditional Ascetic Townie with the passive that no actions from someone ranked lower than me can affect me, including night kills. This is why I suspected Punreader's BP claim.

Since I'm likely to be ranked low...claiming seemed to be beneficial.

I have content to respond to, which I will in circa 12 hours.
DO NOT END THE DAY BEFORE I CAN EXPLAIN WHY I AM DOING THIS AND GIVE RESPONSES TO THE RESPONSES TO MY READS.

Claim: Conditional Bulletproof/Conditional Vigilante; the conditions are inverses.

I actually lied.
I DO have a conditional bulletproof, but it only protects me from those who are ranked HIGHER; I was aiming for an ungated Vig, with the illusion of being bp.

To explain, I can kill people ranked lower than I am, but they can kill me; I can't kill people ranked higher than me, but they can't kill me.

This is why PenguinPower is literally a punclaim.

Details for everything in 12 hours.

I am a ranking cop. (With a certain amount of shots I won’t disclose)
Based on my rank the results I get are dependent on.

If I rank higher than the person I am checking I will get the results I should get if I was a normal cop
For example I check a Town night one and I rank higher than them then I will get “not mafia”
If I am lower I get the opposite of what I should get
In same example I would get “Mafia”

VOTE: fire
My invest was a cop as well I don't think we have 2 cops

1)

Dunn/Espe

, what happens if

Fire/Vax

was higher or lower? Does a positive or negative utility come from it?

2)

I'm curious whether

Maria's

role has potential in skewing her results like

Fire's

, but I don't want to pry for that.

3)

The more I think about it, I don't like the

Pine

shot from

Pun

much at all, but I don't know the scum-motive for that.

[Taly]

All 6 of these claims counter another in some form. :/

[Taly]

Whether it's through validity, or the role itself.

[Taly]

What do you think of

PP/Pun

,

Maria

?

I really want to know your thoughts revolving around their play and claim.

[Taly]

I'm not bothered by the unvoting on Espe, it's the claim bonanza chaos that's achieved nothing that bothers me.

I did think Espe was Scum regardless of roles, but if Fire messed up his results, wouldn't that mean we have a cop inno on Espe now? (assuming Fire's truthful)

Technically, yes

[Taly]

Bins

Welcome, TwoInAMillion.

You singlehandedly made predictions easy for everyone.
You are

Bins

, the

Tracker Neighbor

.

Alignment: Town

-- You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Active: Keeping Track

-- You are in a neighborhood with [REDACTED]. You know that [REDACTED] is "lalaladucks". You may speak during the night. Once per Night Phase, you may name a target in the neighborhood. You will learn who your target visited that night. You must both agree on the target. If one of you dies, you will lose this power.

12. Pine

(TOWN)

Average:

4.67

Number of 10s:

4

Number of 0s:

3

I shot Pine.

The NK didn't happen last night.

[Taly]

Why is

PP

town to you?

[Taly]

Current Towbloc

Taly
the worst
Chara
MariaR
TehBrawlGuy

[Taly]

Eh...

Vax

can join townbloc too.

[Taly]

@Maria

Yeah, I get that.

I'm realizing that nobody in this game has a straight vanilla role, most likely.

And I don't think anyone in this game has a clear pro-town or pro-scum role, and if they do, it's handicapped in some form.

If we have to go off recent play in this game, I'm iffy with

Pun

at the moment, namely his shot on

Pine

, which I want explained. While

Pine

did throw me through a loop, in hindsight, he was a strong guiding voice for town and he was too carefree and sharp to fabricate his motives or content.

If

Pun's

rankings, made by

Pine

, were already set in stone - why did

Pun

go ahead and shoot him? Why not shoot

PP

, his strong scumread and counterclaim? If the shot didn't work, we would have info. that gives

PP's

claim validity due to being a conditional BP; or at least ranking knowledge.

But then again,

Pine

was

Pun's

scumread... and why the fuck would scum have a role that allowed them to vig?

Part of me wants to wait on this to see what happens during the night, but I

hate

saying that.

~~~

Espe/Dunn

strike me as pocketing town like

Me/TW

and

You/Chara

lol

Espe/Dunn

are not playing the game safe at all if they were scum, and assuming

Fire

is being truthful, by PoE, I don't think I'm wanting a lynch/wagon on those two at all, at least not

Espe

.

I want to trust

Fire's

claim... but I don't know. There are things about

Fire

that I find very towny, and some, very scummy.

PP

has not impressed me yet. I like them better this dayphase. But after evaluating

PP/Pun's

claims, I wouldn't be surprised if one was scum. These two bother me. I'm actively expressing uncertainty with them and I don't think I'm getting anything from them.

[Taly]

I feel like... if I voted to lynch someone right now, it wouldn't be 100% based on a scumread... but literally for a flip so I have a better idea of what's going on.

But that's not optimal.

[Taly]

TW

, do you think

Espe/Dunn

are both town? Especially in light of 1245?

[Taly]

TW

, who are the people you'd think the N1 NK target would be? Assuming that it wasn't successful?

Anyone else can answer this question, too.

[Taly]

The balancing tool is that either me or dunn becomes vanilla. It doesn't need another one.

Also, EP flavour, in your best paraphrasing, and go.

Whoever won the bet got to choose to vig, protect, or vanillaise the other.

he said it was possible but has elaborated since

Is it possible

Dunn

used up his protection then?

[Taly]

Actually,

Dunn

wouldn't have been able to vig/protect/vanillize anyone but

Espe

? If I'm reading this correctly?

The balancing tool is that either me or dunn becomes vanilla. It doesn't need another one.

Also, EP flavour, in your best paraphrasing, and go.

Whoever won the bet got to choose to vig, protect, or vanillaise the other.

he said it was possible but has elaborated since

Did this ability HAVE to be used N1?

@Dunn/Espe

[Taly]

OK, I'm good with clearing

Dunn/Espe

right now, there's way too much role/claim/result evidence and play evidence that make it very difficult for either of them to be coming from a scum POV.

Townbloc

Taly
the worst
Chara
MariaR
Espeonage
Dunnstral
Vaxkiller
TehBrawlGuy

I want to place

Fire

in here, but it seems tentative at the moment.

[Taly]

I would assume that there is a doc or something with a clear at the moment if Pun isn't just bluffing and is actually scum.

I know of another possibility where scum wasn't able to successfully NK N1; that

d

o

e

sn't invo

l

ve BPs, protections, NO-NKs, or

a

n immunit

y

.

But if I explain 100% what it is now, then it becomes less useful.

Plus, I don't have strong evidence that supports this possibility being probable or real, just yet. :/

There's a reason my votes not on

Pun

and I'm entertaining

(not with a lot of confidence, but still)

that his shot on

Pine

is truly a town-vig at the moment, and that I'm critically thinking about

PP

being scum.

If

PP

is town, I'm going to be floored by their gameplay and their recent posts in this thread suck. Their

"I'm going to let town burn and then exploit where scum exacerbated it"

mentality is exhausting, and not towny given this gamestate.

I also feel nobody's really given that much reasoning at all that suggest

PP

is town. ._.

[Taly]

ok fuck all of this role shit let's lynch the obvscum

VOTE: pp

What do you think of my townbloc? 1265, I want us to be more in sync.

how is PP obvscum

Do you have a reason to think

PP

isn't scum?

Would it be bad for me to tunnel

PP

, coach

TW

? D:

I've talked about all of it already, but it's a combination of him being against pseudolynch and his interactions with [Taly] early, and then later, his claim and the circumstances surrounding his claim.

He's probably my top scumread ATM. I'm still debating who exactly I want to push for the day, but regardless, I can't really see any situation where I'm not at least OK with PP swinging today.

I can go pull pull more specific thins I said on D1 but yeah.

You should, I don't think a lot of people are giving

Pun/PP

their due discussion.

I do agree with you on

PP

though.

I remember disagreeing with that read but this whole thing today has kinda wiped my brain of a lot of day 1.

Why did you disagree with it, and what do you think about

PP

now?

PP, what is difficult for you to digest about this entire situation?

I didn't say it was difficult

(though interestingly enough you did in this very post)

to digest.

First off, what does this mean?

I don't know how a direct question could conjure such a transparent response.

I said my brain hurt too much to process. Much like it does tonight. I will need to read through without a glass of wine in hand

I felt that my question was very clear. I wanted to know if anything was unclear to you and why it's not easy for you to process.

I can go pull pull more specific thins I said on D1 but yeah.

If you're basing your read on me from D1, you need to reassess (unless it's the claim alone).

Is this really all you have to say? It doesn't sound convincing that you believe you're town.

Plus, I'm assuming you have a strong townread on

TBG

since you gave him a 9, but you're not asking why he thinks you're obvscum, or when he said that with his rankings while giving you a 0.

[Taly]

i don't really trust her, but Maria has my vote because she was actually here and so deserves it.

do u trust me

chara <3 <3 <3 <3

?

[Taly]

wtf guys

7 hours without a post? we're better than that

[Taly]

VOTE: Dunnstral

Yeah... I really want to see if this vote sticks with the content over the past 2 pages, and if it does, I want a really good explanation.

VOTE: fire
My invest was a cop as well I don't think we have 2 cops

Stop fake claiming.

What about

Maria's

claim is false to you?

And in the same breath, if you believe she faked her innocent on

Vax

, do you think

Vax

is scum?

[Taly]

:/ At the moment, I townblocced half the playerlist, and I'm only slightly afraid I'm townreading scum.

But

PP's

claim is mechanically a counter to

Pun

, and at the moment, I have more reason to think

Pun's

claim is valid.

Which, I know this is a shit reason to scumread

PP

, but I haven't really thought about this up until the last few pages.

...Upon ISOing him again, I don't think I have a lot of tangible examples that point to him being scum. Or at least, the reasons I find him scummy aren't strong ones, or they're subjective.

-

I disliked how he voted and dismissed my points onto him in D1.

-

He gave

Chara

a 0, but even though

Chara's

townread a lot, he doesn't explain his POV.

-

He's very benefitted by being ranked high, but aside from the claim, I didn't see him actively making an effort to milk the benefits of his claim.

-

I don't know why he's so willing to die if it meant

Pun

did, it just sounds more like scum creating a dichotomy that ended in a strong potential town PR's death alongside his own.

It's hard to get inside of his head.

970 is one of the few posts that I liked from him, but he didn't expand much, so it's hard for me to verbalize a definitive read on him... at least to me.

He's playing to what I'd want to have achieved as scum. Hard to discern, but puts out enough that makes you question him. Which, yes, different playstyles and it's dumb for me to scumread based off this general idea, but it's why I have a lot of trouble with

PP

, at least with the game's circumstances.

[Taly]

What do you think of Fire vs Maria Taly?

I don't like that they both say the other is fakeclaiming automatically.

Even if they're both town - which I think is highly possible - I don't think a dichotomy is helpful here, especially since their claims are investigatives, and if either or both of them were scum, they're basically planning to die this dayphase, if not later in the game.

Most of their argument so far isn't that well-constructed unless you ISO

Espe

to try and connect the dots.

Maria

is townblocced partially because of

Chara

, and that her posts have the mindset of

"let me figure this game out without screwing the town over"

. I have posts to back up this idea, but they're independent of the claims.

Fire

frustrates me a little. They're aggressive, but that can be both town or scum in my experience... I want them to talk to me outside of saying

"

Taly

is scum because my gut told me so since page 4"

. That's my biggest wall here.

This is why I don't have a strong opinion or stance over their 1v1.

[Taly]

oh fuck

why does my brain do this

[Taly]

I hate saying this, but this is one of my biggest problems in the game right now...

If one of

Fire/Maria

flips scum, I don't think it auto-clears the other.

I think them being TvT or SvS is more likely than a TvS.

I can be very wrong, but this is my direction of reads right now regarding those 2.