Mini 2014: Succinct Mafia (Over)

[LuckyOtter]

Momrangal, I also don't get your vote on mathblade. What's his scum motivation for calling you potential scum afraid of Wisdom?

[Hiraki]

Why not?

Really hated that Arc conversation and haven't liked anything much after that.

Here's a couple things I still don't like after revisiting his ISO:

also, you cant expect me to really sort people when im limited to posting so little. I sort people through back to back 1v1s that are impossible to happen here. It's a given I'll give off a different vibe when I am forced to play differently.

I'm TRing Fitz too.

why? Have you played with him before?

In conjunction with:

i find he actually makes sense as town

because i didnt want to be voting hiraki anymore and you felt like a good vote

also i dont really think i can read you anymore

[Kokichi Oma]

Kokichi so you're deadset on wisdom?

Yes

[Wisdom]

there isnt any contradiction in what you quoted

I never said i voted you for your fluffing, others presented it like i did

[Wisdom]

hiraki what is wrong with any of that?

My stances are pretty clear

[Hiraki]

I don't feel like your questions and statements have any real purpose.

[Pine]

I feel like this is not the ruleset for Hiraki and Wisdom. They keep coming up against their quota.

They can both be Town for now though. Wis stronger I think. Otter might be Town. Brie's replace-out feels Town, but is probably NAI. Dunn is lurking, which I don't think is good for him. Fuzzy is still hoping we'll get bored with his wagon and move on. I'm not letting up.

[Kokichi Oma]

there isnt any contradiction in what you quoted

I never said i voted you for your fluffing, others presented it like i did

Then give a damn reason why you voted me in the first place

[Wisdom]

I don't need a reason to vote you
Why are you fixating on that
Votes build up pressure and people were voicing suspicion on you
Given i didnt have someone better to have my vote on, it felt like the thing to do

[Wisdom]

I don't feel like your questions and statements have any real purpose.

How does voicing an opinion on fitz (that he makes sense as town and here he doesn't) not serve a purpose?

How does answering kokichi's question not serve a purpose?

How does me explaining that i cant fucking play with 4 posts per page and that youre going to inevitably think im different not serve a purpose?

How does me trying to read arc not serve a purpose?

^what you quoted off memory

see you next page

[MathBlade]

Then why are you still voting Wisdom?

Good question! Anyone else has comments on this?

Maybe I should repost this.

So would people vote in deadline or no?

Momrangel, what does post 93 mean?

VOTE: Wisdom

Mmmm...

That's probably a bad vote but what do I know?

Then why are you still voting Wisdom?

Quote in question

A bad vote doesn’t necessarily mean that it is a vote on town. It could be scum bad voting their buddy. I don’t think Dunnstral is scum but the whole “why don’t you unvote my buddy irks me”

Think it’s wisdom Fuzzy Otter

The wisdom of a fuzzy otter. I has given name to the prob scum team yo.

[SirCakez]

I think Wisdom's frustration with the game's posting limits is legit, knowing him. And asking seemingly pointless questions is also a characteristic he has. That said I'd still put him as null, nothing he's said really sticks out.
Gonna do my reread now, and drop some reads while I'm at it since I'm so disorganized.

[SirCakez]

I ended up doing a lot of ISOing too.

Town - Otter, Hiraki
Townlean - Momrangal, Fitz, Dunn
Null - Wisdom, Fuzzy, AA9, Pine, Math/Brie
Scumlean - Kokichi
Scum - Eevee

^ where I'm at

I really like Otter looking back. Feels like they are actually trying to make read progression and advance the game (see their Eevee read reevaluation), and I don't think scum are doing much of that this game.

Upon an ISO Eevee looks a lot worse then I previously thought. A ton of fluff and waffling.

Kokichi is not good either, but not feeling as bad. The tunneling on Wisdom feels like a scum move. 168 really irked me. I also find questioning townreads on yourself to be a scumtell. I am only leaning scum here b/c the play feels different from scum Koki in Partition which has me wary.

What little Fitz has feels better looking back. Does not remind at all of the recent Partition where they were scum who I nailed pretty much immediately. He is confusing but not in a scummy way, if that makes sense.

Dunn moves up to townlean on tone and gut.

I could accept a PL on Fuzzy with how little they are doing.

Other reads I can talk about if wanted. A lot of gut and "vibes" involved with how little content is on the table. I have too many nullreads but I struggle to sort a lot of those players/they have next to no content :/
Math and Wisdom in particular are always nightmares for me to read.

VOTE: Eevee

[LuckyOtter]

SirCakez why a townlean on Momrangal?
--
Math, how do you figure me+Fuzzy makes sense?
--
I've honestly been avoiding a read of Fitz and Wisdom because I haven’t been able to make sense of their interaction. So I sat down to slog through it and here's what I see:

Fitz starts off with some reads/questions in post 90:
1. Vote on Momrangal based on RVS vote (later says it's gut)
2. Sus on Eevee based on choosing Fitz as possible target when other options are available
3. Sus on Wisdom for his Koki vote, asking what it was for if not for fluffing

Wisdom calls out some valid concerns. Some of Fitz's original reasoning is irrelevant (e.g. the fact that eevee chose the person who posted the least). However, not all of it is. In 131, Fitz makes an effort to explain his suspicions better, and does OK explaining his mom and eevee reads. I really didn’t like his initial mom vote, but his justification here is fine. The eevee read is similar to what I’ve been saying.

His Wisdom read doesn’t actually totally make sense to me. He says he SRs Wisdom because of Wisdom voting Koki for fluff posts, which Wisdom thinks is NAI. But Wisdom never said that as far as I can tell. (If I’m missing it, please point it out to me!) Wisdom only said that Koki felt like a better vote. Fitz ought to understand this if he is defending his initial gut vote on mom.

Wisdom, from this point, seems to focus mostly on the part that concerns him and what he perceives as suspicion based solely on lack of reasons. There’s some selective quoting concerning eevee (134). Fitz responds, and Wisdom just kind of shuts down (150). That’s the part that bothers me the most out of all this.

Fitz is either misinterpreting or misrepresenting Wisdom’s Koki vote. I’m leaning toward the former.
Wisdom isn’t making the effort to hear Fitz out, which could be because Fitz is not always totally clear in his explanation, because of frustration of being misrepresented, or because he’s scum and a Fitz mislynch is more likely if things are left unclear. It’s the post 150 that makes me feel inclined to think the latter, but I need to reread Wisdom in isolation, which will have to happen later.

[Dunnstral]

I don't feel like your questions and statements have any real purpose.

What about:

Kokichi so you're deadset on wisdom?

A few posts before you?

With that said, I'm on board for that

VOTE: EeveeLution Army

[mastina]

@Mod: When doing votecounts, do you mind putting how many to lynch?

<<< Though this isn't as succinct, yes. >>>

Also, Koki is not voting and voting at the same time.

<<< Fixed. >>>

[EeveeLution Army]

I'm starting to think pines scum mostly because of how much hes hammering in that wisdom is his townread

[havingfitz]

OK...the game is so short I'm doing a read from the start (mid pg 2):

rvsrvsrvsrvs

wrt AA9's post 44...when I first read this I thought it was a bit lamist but then as I got further into pg 3 decided it was nothing based on 2nd language consideration.  (i.e. I was of same mindset Wisdom [and Hiraki] was when they voted AA9).

Echoed by Pine in post 52....and Cake in next post.

@Mom wrt 64...what are you not sure about wrt Pine's comment?

gut tr'ing Pine and Koki at this point...perhaps Cake too.

@Hiraki wrt 66...do you always "say something" when you sheep another player's vote?

tr TheBrie...

hmmm....not seeing where AA9 was being "extremely hypocritical" wrt Wisdom as Hiraki states here.

Still do not like Eevee's hypothetical vote on me (77).  Her 86 feels off as well.

Still agree with my own 90.

Still dislike Mom's 98.

Don't like Wisdom's 102....feels like it's making excuses and infer's a PL vote on Koki.

tl in Dunnstral

I lean town on Cake but still think his vote on me is crap.

tl on Otter

125...feels like a soft defense of Eevee by Wisdom.

@ Dunn, wrt 140...why are you voting me?

@Cake...how am I confusing you?.  My point is I haven't back pedaled on anything.  If I say play x is scummy for reason 1.  And later add another reason...that's not back pedaling.

I could see Wisdom's scum list including 2 town (me and Koki) and one scum (Fuzzy).  Or all 3 town as my opinion on Fuzzy is still forming.

wrt Wisdom's 178...whether you are scum or town...any reasons given by others (whether they are town or scum) that go against your wincon are going to be called BS.  Show me a case against you that you like.  And you pulling meta based on 1 game is......bs.

Wisdom omgus sr'ing Brie's replacement Mathblade as soon as a hint of suspicion comes his way looks bad imo.

@Math wrt 198...how does me being scum work itself out?  By scum winning?

Done.

I still suspect my first three suspects.  Though my order has changed slightly:

Scum to town feels...

Eevee/Wisdom
Momrangal
Fuzzy
HIraki
AA9/Pine
Koki
Dunn
Cakez
Math/Otter

VOTE: Eevee

[MathBlade]

SirCakez why a townlean on Momrangal?
--
Math, how do you figure me+Fuzzy makes sense?
--
I've honestly been avoiding a read of Fitz and Wisdom because I haven’t been able to make sense of their interaction. So I sat down to slog through it and here's what I see:

Fitz starts off with some reads/questions in post 90:
1. Vote on Momrangal based on RVS vote (later says it's gut)
2. Sus on Eevee based on choosing Fitz as possible target when other options are available
3. Sus on Wisdom for his Koki vote, asking what it was for if not for fluffing

Wisdom calls out some valid concerns. Some of Fitz's original reasoning is irrelevant (e.g. the fact that eevee chose the person who posted the least). However, not all of it is. In 131, Fitz makes an effort to explain his suspicions better, and does OK explaining his mom and eevee reads. I really didn’t like his initial mom vote, but his justification here is fine. The eevee read is similar to what I’ve been saying.

His Wisdom read doesn’t actually totally make sense to me. He says he SRs Wisdom because of Wisdom voting Koki for fluff posts, which Wisdom thinks is NAI. But Wisdom never said that as far as I can tell. (If I’m missing it, please point it out to me!) Wisdom only said that Koki felt like a better vote. Fitz ought to understand this if he is defending his initial gut vote on mom.

Wisdom, from this point, seems to focus mostly on the part that concerns him and what he perceives as suspicion based solely on lack of reasons. There’s some selective quoting concerning eevee (134). Fitz responds, and Wisdom just kind of shuts down (150). That’s the part that bothers me the most out of all this.

Fitz is either misinterpreting or misrepresenting Wisdom’s Koki vote. I’m leaning toward the former.
Wisdom isn’t making the effort to hear Fitz out, which could be because Fitz is not always totally clear in his explanation, because of frustration of being misrepresented, or because he’s scum and a Fitz mislynch is more likely if things are left unclear. It’s the post 150 that makes me feel inclined to think the latter, but I need to reread Wisdom in isolation, which will have to happen later.

What kind of question is that?

Literally anyone can be scum with Fuzzy and Fuzzy is doing fuck all.

I could literally make a case for anyone scum with fuzzy.

Watch: Player defends Fuzzy doesn’t want fuzzy lynched. Player attacks Fuzzy they are bussing a useless slot. Player does nothing in regards to Fuzzy they want him to have a chance to get in town’s good graces.

The point is whether a player’s ISO is scummy when dealing with a lurker and you’re hedging of bets as well as how some of your posts are written ping me. If I had two vigs I would shoot you both right now.

[MathBlade]

I'm starting to think pines scum mostly because of how much hes hammering in that wisdom is his townread

No. Bad.

The game I just watched Pine’s scum meta is otherwise.

Bad read fix it.

[Momrangal]

Otter might be Town

Might be town? He's bleeding town blood all over each and every post that he makes on every post thats ever made. Why do you have reservations on his slot?

A bad vote doesn’t necessarily mean that it is a vote on town. It could be scum bad voting their buddy. I don’t think Dunnstral is scum but the whole “why don’t you unvote my buddy irks me”

I know you and your sister are known for moon logic but I'm finding it really hard to believe that you actually came to this conclusion naturally

I actually have
wisdom at a townlean, and it was for a while now

Pedit: Momrangal, I was just about to ask you about this again. I don't understand your reaction to my question in 177. Do you have a read on Dunn?

It means what I said. You brought up a good point, made a good observation and it shows that you are thinking critically.

An observation no one else seemed to really think anything about. Even after I reposted, only one other person had made a comment on it.

Up until this point however, wisdom is featured in many people scum reads and in a few of those people I could also be scum (math,fitz) depending on how things go. I'm pretty disappointed in the lack of reactions to it, but honestly the lack of them also got my brain churning

[Momrangal]

Oh also, Dunn is a tentative and careful town read at the moment.

Also, Pine. I'm not vibing you this game and you're one of the few people I want to get a solid read on so I guess stop being lazy!

[EeveeLution Army]

Mathblade whats pines scummeta than?

[Momrangal]

Oh hey! I can post again!

The reason being is that if you’re scum pushing Wisdom then it’s clearly not for his reads. They are atrocious.

They are. Also im not pushing wisdom. I was talking to him directly, and it's pretty interesting that you think this while saying that I'm scared of him. It makes no sense and like...

If I'm scared of him why would I approach him the way I did? I'm instigating, and continually calling him out to interact with me.

I'm aware that he can pin scum down but I am far more intimate with him than you probably will ever be and I also know that, if left to his own devices and not forced to think through his reads, he gets pretty tunnely and pushes mislynches that way as either alignment.

That was me telling him to step up his game a little, not me saying he's scum for whatever reason you think your mind brewed up.

Also, otter. Thought I already said this but Dunn is a careful leantown read atm

[Momrangal]

Oh right.

Im also at a kind of impasse. Every time Fitz posts, I am fighting the urge to not push and scum read him
He's just so... Idk. It's pretty weird that the one post he didn't like is the one where his competence is questioned (again) and I feel like he is scum reading me because of that. At the same time, he has no issue in digging into wisdom and straight up mudslings him, saying hes being terrible and horrible for the second time in a row already undermining his competence and considering that his target is him... Welllll


At the same time, he and math (both who are pinging ) are literally pushing the exact same people and which makes them highly improbably scum together.

Both are not really analyzing the game, and even though I can admit that math is kiinnddaaa thinking critically I don't think Fitz is really doing that at all this game. It almost feels like his whole attitude from day start had taken a 180 and I'm wondering if I'm the only one who noticed that