SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[Chara]

if we immediately nail two scum via unpopularity, it should count as a win.

also hello, everyone!

[Chara]

This early, with the aim to increase public knowledge, yeah. It's town points.

i don't agree with really any part of this but it kind of makes me want to townread Espeon. just a little.

and hi Fire! <3

[Chara]

I've also heard Chara is like really really towny as town fwiw

this is true.

i'm giving Brawl my 10 and Deas's opening was super scum for no other reason than the "i want to be liked here" vibe.

[Chara]

actually can't decide if i like the worst's reaction to it or Deas's post itself less.

regarding Cheet's roleclaim, i wonder about claiming a BP at all. i can see the intent is "vote me as most popular so i can use my ability" which i

understand

even if i don't particularly like it.

[Chara]

Hello Chara.
I would ask you if I can pocket you, but I am kind of bored of the whole "let me pocket you!" and the "how can I get you to scumread me?".

Put me as null for now.

Also, how has the job been?

well, you're Assassin anyway, so i'm not expecting to read you like i read your main.
null it is. for now.

the job's been as fine as customer service can be. :> that is to say, mediocre but manageable.

[Chara]

hey Taly! nice to see you. :>

why am i probably town? i see a few townreads on me but i haven't really done anything yet. why'd you ask why i'm town if you're townreading me?
to answer your question, i think Deas could be scum based on the scant few posts this game has. townread on Brawl was a joke because i found his post funny, but i'd be fine to throw a townread over there too, i suppose.

[Chara]

I am sliiiiiiightly uncomfortable with how many towny points Fire is throwing at me right now
they need to talk to Espeonage more first though.

Chara entry was towny, otherwise notrly

i'm uncomfortable about the same thing. sort of.

Fire threw town points at you for downplaying your own posts as RVS... which might be ok, except i said i might be scumreading you for those posts. so why wouldn't scum downplay them? i might be missing something obvious.

and same question to you, why was my entrance towny? all i remember doing is throwing minor shade your way. :>

[Chara]

fuck

i also made this mistake, haha. i thought Punreader was claiming to be an alt.

and i agree about claiming. there's really no need to.

[Chara]

why are Deas and i low for you to begin with, Dan?
i don't feel like getting everyone to post an itemized list. as long as everyone claims their rankings immediately after, i'm fine with that. they'll need to be defended either way.
unless there's a considerable benefit i haven't thought of.

no more from me today, i'm really sick. see you all tomorrow. <3

[Chara]

plenty of reasons to not. why would you? we don't know your role and claiming day 1 without reason is pointless.

[Chara]

i agree with basically all of the above post. thanks Maria.

also provable role =/= alignment-indicative information.

[Chara]

god damn it pagetop.

[Chara]

Srceen's post here gives me bad feelings about him.

Taly: didn't miss it, haven't had the energy to respond to most things so just picking easy ones. still sick. :>
hopefully the misery should be over soon.

[Chara]

Ugh

Also, it annoys me that people often say they don't know how to read me. That just sets me up for WIFOM later which happens a lot.

well, that won't be a problem here, seeing as you're town.

[Chara]

you agree that Taly isn't towny, Penguin?

Taly: as for the Brawl townread, i don't have much of a reason for it. it's not a read i'm very attached to

now

, at any rate. and your talk with Fire isn't something i had any major strong feelings on. now that i'm feeling better, i'm going to look at this game again with fresh eyes. should be very easy.

[Chara]

questions you'd like answered first? meaning one question?
i'm waiting for Taly to return before i answer.

[Chara]

questions you'd like answered first? meaning one question?
i'm waiting for Taly to return before i answer.

Um...pretty clear what I mean. What was the point of this beyond delaying your answer?

i checked your ISO, all i found was asking about Taly. what did i miss?

and yes, that's the point. as i just told you, i was delaying my answer until after Taly had responded.

[Chara]

Because I'm looking to see if you're trying to genuinely figure out my alignment, or trying to make a townread on me seem unusual or unwarranted.

this, actually.
the worst asked a question, and Penguin followed up on it. after i gave what i figured was a relatively simple answer (waiting for your response), he continued to call my townread of you unsubstantiated and suspect.

i'd thought anyone actually trying to read either of us in this situation might wonder if i was perhaps trying to see what

Taly

's reply to my townread would be, and therefore would not answer questions before i'd seen how Taly had responded.

all i'd really thought about in making the post was that Taly is someone who could reasonably be considered fairly towny, and he's a player i know, so saying he was confidently town might net some sort of discussion. my townread on Taly isn't as confident as that post suggests, but it's still there, and after seeing the reactions i've decided to stick to it.

as an aside: Deas, my townread on you was a gutread. that's all. note the past tense because i'm starting from the ground up anyway.

as for why Taly's town... i don't know, are you reading the game? what's scummy? his insatiable desire to share his thoughts and get the game moving, or the slightly-annoyed-with-the-game way he does it? this isn't a meta read, i don't have any good meta on Taly.

[Chara]

in case that wasn't clear, i liked Taly's reply. i also liked his reply to Penguin. of course, good scum questions random townreads on them. Taly didn't just question it, which is about the easiest thing

any

player can do in response to a purposely-concealed read, he was also defending its existence. Taly's town, he should know he is, and considering his contributions to the game so far, a strong read on him is something he would expect. being frustrated with being put in the "to sort" pile, and the way he's approached that, it just looks town.
but if you disagree, let's talk about that. :>

[Chara]

Then wait for the original person asked to answer before jumping in.

this is kind of funny in the context of my earlier posts. why did you need to jump in and ask the question the worst had just asked, anyway? why was it so important for you to see the answer?

I agree that Taly isn't as decidedly town as you stated.

I have questions I would like answered first, and I would like for you to explain why you think he is because I don't see it in your ISO.

and at the time of this post, Penguin hadn't actually done anything besides talk about his own slot. which i wouldn't really care about, except there's nothing indicating much about his reads in his own ISO. not that there's much in my own ISO, but why does that matter? the townread only came about because of posts i'd read since my last post. it reads like another way to discredit the read.

[Chara]

i'm townreading Espeonage, sort of. the early townread on Punreader is something i don't agree with, but the way they defended it didn't feel all that bad to me.
general awkwardness, maybe. which is a dumb reason to townread someone.

well, 2 confident reads out of 18 players isn't so terrible, right?

...haha. it kind of is. oh well, more tomorrow.

[Chara]

as an aside: Deas, my townread on you was a gutread. that's all. note the past tense because i'm starting from the ground up anyway.

Brawl, not Deas.

[Chara]

I don't get the PP scumreads. I don't really get most of the reads. DV's case feels like the only decent thing in the thread, but my support of that will get taken with a grain of salt because the slot just 'voted' for me.

you don't get why i made the posts on Penguin that i did?

[Chara]

Espeonage is high rating for me right now.

Taly needs to chill for a bit.

did you have anything to say to me?

[Chara]

You reread, and then weakly, weakly say that PP isn't scummy. But his post is what made you think this wasn't TvT?

this. Brawl's posts make me want to townread him on gut but his stance of Penguin/Taly just doesn't make sense to me.
what can you point to that tells you it's not TvT if not someone acting in a way that makes them seem not town?

worst: i know you said you wanted to talk about Taly, but if you like my reasoning, i'm not sure if there's anything more to talk about. :>
he's not locktown, but while i don't agree with everything he says, the points being picked at for Taly-scum don't really resonate with me either.

[Chara]

Chara's probably town.

for what part specifically?

if it weren't for the Penguin/Taly TvT thing i'd want to just townread Brawl for his posting. for whatever reason my gut won't let me be happy with it, but it might be paranoia.

pedit:
Penguin: i feel like i asked you questions. i answered yours, will you answer mine?
it would look really silly if i hadn't asked any, wouldn't it.

hi Maria! <3

[Chara]

Sum them up for me, cuz I'm not invested enough to look back through them today.

If you can wait until tomorrow, I would have time to.

i can wait.

[Chara]

You reread, and then weakly, weakly say that PP isn't scummy. But his post is what made you think this wasn't TvT?

this. Brawl's posts make me want to townread him on gut but his stance of Penguin/Taly just doesn't make sense to me.
what can you point to that tells you it's not TvT if not someone acting in a way that makes them seem not town?

worst: i know you said you wanted to talk about Taly, but if you like my reasoning, i'm not sure if there's anything more to talk about. :>
he's not locktown, but while i don't agree with everything he says, the points being picked at for Taly-scum don't really resonate with me either.

This is kind of a vague, shitty answer, because my initial read on it was just that the interaction between them felt off in a way that TvT isn't usually.

Going back and looking, this pings me the hardest:

This reads like an excuse.

Nobody's stopping you from voting right now, faux votes are legal.

And have no impact, so are worthless.

Then why are you even bringing up votes? If you think there's no point, you're not adding to the discussion by saying

"I want this, but we can't have this"

And if you think votes are worthless, I'm voting you, and is it not catching your attention?

but all the interactions between them seem aggressive, but only just barely, in a way that genuine interactions aren't. I'm having a hard time parsing what the reason for that is, specifically, though. It could be one of them is Scum, and that's why it feels off, it could be both and they're bussing, but I feel reasonably sure that they're not both Town.

boo. i want to dislike this reply because catching things is fun, but i like it.

[Chara]

Trying to chainsaw a lynch. You think the post is SvT but don't make a solid stance on what one is what gives you options I dislike that. You basically spent the whole post explaining why it

could

be TvS but never took a stance on what one you think it is giving town the option to jump in and do the work for you

i liked the vagueness and feel the complete opposite. i'd thought his earlier posts pointed to what you're saying here, but the shitty answer is something i see more from town who had a bad feeling.

pedit: not Chara?

punreader, i can't wait for why i'm a perfect ten.

[Chara]

I've decided that I am enough of a negatively utility at this point that I'm going to claim.

I'm Shadoweh. Conditional Ascetic Townie with the passive that no actions from someone ranked lower than me can affect me, including night kills. This is why I suspected Punreader's BP claim.

Since I'm likely to be ranked low...claiming seemed to be beneficial.

why? if you're ranked low, you'd only be ascetic to a very small handful of players. and they're unpopular (scummy) players at that.

[Chara]

also, by claiming the exact parameters of your BP, it's now useless.
i don't really get why you did except to not be ranked the lowest.

anyone not scumreading Penguin, let's talk about why.



later. when i'm not sleepy.

[Chara]

Fire, what do you mean by Maria being so into the game? she seems disinterested if anything.

pedit: i don't like your Taly read either. :<

[Chara]

i didn't mean that in a negative way, Maria. :>

pedit: i'm getting better, Fire. regardless of your opinion on that, calling on my reads meta in reply instead of something actually relevant to this game isn't great.

[Chara]

Because my Bp is based on my positive ranking, which is not likely at this point. Ascetics are almost always anti-town (which I claimed earlier), so I thought I would claim.

Explain the scum reasoning for doing what I have done.

"to not be ranked the lowest".

[Chara]

With the understanding that I've given that up, try something else for you explanation.

your ascetic isn't much of a negative utility if it works like you claimed.

[Chara]

Why do you think Taly when he reads the posts gives questions that have answers in them. Like, no reading between lines alot. Its reading surface content as though not actually reading it. What am I missing here?

it doesn't look like he's faking content, it looks like reading between the lines isn't something Taly does while being Taly.
it's like the name-bolding thing. one of his quirks.

that and getting excited and continuing to post/trying to curb his own posting. he knows he tends to post more than he might want to.

i am interested in why he's now locktown to worst, though.

[Chara]

everything can be faked to an extent. i haven't locktowned him, either.
but asking obvious questions isn't a scumtell for Taly from what i know of him.
when i said "it doesn't look like he's faking", i meant it as a counter to what i assume was your point, that being that Taly's questions were fake.

[Chara]

Ratings are hard to figure out because I need to find where to put my townreads, the people I want alive, the people I want dead, and the people I sr.
change PP to a 10

why? even if he's town, he's never getting killed with a high ranking, or investigated. now that he's claimed his ability, ranking him high is nothing but unhelpful unless you're just absolutely certain he's town and don't care about his role.

[Chara]

Eh PP is prob town
my rankings aren't gonna be 100% honest because I refuse to believe scum doesn't have a power to influence votes
Pedit: Why would I care about his role

because it exists? but if you think he's town, you answered my question already.


pedit: what does knowing who'll die at night help us do?

[Chara]

Fire, your problem with Taly is he's asking surface-level questions he should know the answer to. my answer is i've seen Taly ask more questions than necessary as town so it isn't going into my read of him. what's the problem?

pedit: obvious, but i agree with Brawl. was scumreading Penguin before the claim. even if i entirely disregard it, i still scumread him.

[Chara]

i like Brawl for town again. :>

pedit: i like Brawl for town x2 for the way he answered that, but also i wanted Srceen to have to answer before you did for him.

[Chara]

Just that you told me you saw genuine posts by him and than I ask you for them and you tell me that "anything can be faked" was mildly annoying to tell you the truth.

like i already explained, i wasn't saying "Taly sounds very genuine", and if i did, it wasn't what i meant.

i was saying that you thought the questions were fake because they were surface level, while i've known Taly to ask lots of 'surface' questions as either alignment, so i didn't think they had to be fake.

[Chara]

that is what prompted me to answer the way i did, actually. though the basis for Fire asking that question at all was also a misunderstanding, as i explained. i've read players on genuineness plenty, but that's not the reason for my read on Taly.

also Brawl is getting a 10 and i'll fight you all on that. i'll sit on the exact why until the morning because i'm passing out and also because nobody can stop me.

[Chara]

The more people tell me my questions are "silly" or "fake", the less I view them as pro-town. And the more people cultivate this mentality that I'm being disingenuous by ENGAGING, is good for scum to twist for their convenience later.

would like to clarify i didn't think this, just couldn't think of a good way to explain when talking to Fire.

[Chara]

wanted Srceen to have to answer before you did for him

I missed the question.

question was how knowing who will die at night helps the town. (as opposed to scum.)

[Chara]

It helps town because it gives them information to plan around. Puts us closer to even footing with scum imo.

give me an example. i can't see what we could be planning for, honestly, but i can certainly see plenty for scum to do with the info behind the scenes.

[Chara]

hi Nahdia! nice to see you.

i'm not reading anymore. going to the movies. love you all. <3

[Chara]

i suppose if scum really wanted to, they could figure out who's dying based on how everyone is sorting their readslists and affect things accordingly.

and i doubt Srceen's opinion on the matter is AI, it just feels like something he thinks is right and so would think as scum or town.
so i'll stop caring about that and care about other things... later.

the timing of the townreads on Brawl in relation to my own posting is something i noticed, but i don't know yet if the timing just corresponds to Brawl himself goodposting.

[Chara]

i really don't think we need to worry about it this much. if scum gives all of their points to someone who is universally scumread to save them, we can just lynch them.
and if we actually rank players properly instead of doing some weird pattern, even if the scum mess with things, the lower-ranked players should still be the ones to die, which is still good for us.

[Chara]

It helps town because it gives them information to plan around. Puts us closer to even footing with scum imo.

give me an example. i can't see what we could be planning for, honestly, but i can certainly see plenty for scum to do with the info behind the scenes.

Cop doc watcher bg

read the rules again.

the ranking phase happens before the night phase.

[Chara]

and you may as well include 1s as an additional 0 to use, if you're doing something like this at all.
and there are 4 scum, they have 40 points max with which to elevate a player of their choice, not 30.

[Chara]

*if there are 4 scum.

[Chara]

basically, i think we're better served going in order of our reads whilst deciding on some players that definitely need to go. if someone dies outside of that, it means scum decided to kill them with rankings, and it also means that the player would probably have been mislynched anyway.
if we go random after deciding on a few universal zeroes, it means scum could theoretically kill anyone they liked.
like me, for example. :> or any other more helpful player who's actually good at mafia.

[Chara]

i like the idea of lying about one's rankings so scum has more difficulty planning than just doing random rankings.

[Chara]

i feel as though i could probably do more if i threw myself into this, but i'm busy today and tomorrow and cannot.

there are a few reads of mine that bother me. i find it difficult to trust the worst, though i agree with Taly's townread of him. i wish i had the time to examine that further.

this amounts to a prod dodge. sorry everyone.

i want to say Pine is scum, but i'm finding it difficult to rationalize what scum Pine's plan is this game, at all.
i think Penguin is scum, which would mean Punreader is... probably town, though it isn't a lock.

Deas is, i think, more likely town than scum, but that's if i absolutely had to pick between the two.

i haven't managed to get a good read on Maria yet (and i never do) but she's town for now. and her reserving her read on me makes sense for reasons i don't really feel like explaining.

[Chara]

639's pretty scummy too.

jesus christ idgaf

this is in reaction to Shoshin's judgement of Maria's post?

[Chara]

hey i've decided i like Punreader for today and i'll follow them. mainly, it helps that their reads line up with mine anyway.

[Chara]

Brawl's right on Pun being town. for that mistake as well as their general play. consider me asleep but yes, please actually read the rules. i pointed this out earlier as well, rankings happen and resolve before night 1 even begins. (also why it doesn't help town direct PRs at all to know beforehand, and only helps scum.)

[Chara]

VOTE: End Day
i know where my list will be, and right now there isn't anything i feel like making sure others change their mind about.

[Chara]

Chara
Taly
TehBrawlGuy
Nahdia
Punreader
the worst
Shoshin
MariaR
Dunnstral
DeasVail
Espeonage
Fire Assassin
Lovebird
PenguinPower
NicoRobin
Vaxkiller
Pine
Srceenplay

i'm just upset about this list now with the night results. :<

[Chara]

so far it looks like we were all split on who was actually scummy, so what ended up happening was two players who were universally on the low end because no one was really townreading them (except Nico with Taly) were the ones who died.
but i haven't done the math yet.

[Chara]

i don't know how to feel about it because i expected it as a possibility and also ranked Pine a 0. :<

[Chara]

I'm so confused on how that works at the moment. Shouldn't we have just killed him, wahts the point of keep that around?

weren't you townreading Punreader?

[Chara]

So pine was ranked lower than Punreader?????? Cmon, were people scum reading pine yesterday?

so how much of the game did you actually... read?

[Chara]

Spoiler: Rankings

1. TehBrawlGuy - 9
2. Taly - 0
3. Punreader - 0
4. MariaR - 10
5. DeasVail - 8
6. Espeonage - 7
7. Dunnstral - 10
8. Nahdia - 3
9. the worst - 6
10. Pine - 2
11. Shoshin - 4
12. Fire Assassin - 4
13. Lovebird - 5
14. Chara - 0
15. Srceenplay - 5
16. Vaxkiller - 6
17. PenguinPower - 10
18. NicoRobin - 1

probably the list most removed from my own, right here. who are we missing?

Maria: i haven't decided yet, what's your pool? as long as it's not my townreads, i don't care at the moment.

[Chara]

hey everyone, sorry for disappearing! reading up tomorrow as i'm sleeping now. role stuff, excellent. sort of. not really.

i don't really trust her, but Maria has my vote because she was actually here and so deserves it.

[Chara]

ok, i skimmed. i believe Maria. i don't trust that belief as she's tricked me plenty, but there it is.

this is more interesting to go through than i thought, which is nice.
i'm not really seeing where i should be townreading Penguin, honestly.

[Chara]

so Espeonage is probably higher than Fire, so Fire's claimed role has a reversed cop result. and Fire got a guilty, so his claim in the end is Espeon town after the confusion is all dealt with. is that right?

[Chara]

mod: did Nico's role double her own 10 too?

according to her flip, it's her "rankings of other people" that are doubled, but that may just be the word choice and it affects all of her rankings.

[Chara]

same here, and it has an effect enough on the rankings that i want to know.

but regarding non-mechanical things, i don't know if i trust Maria or not. but that's alright, i still love her. was townreading Nahdia day 1, but i hope they're feeling better because i need to update the read and what i have to examine so far isn't enough. but looking into Penguin would at least be helpful for reading Nahdia.

every player who knows me in any real capacity ranked me high. i'm waiting for my SUPP winner banner, thanks guys.

[Chara]

Deas: can you tell me about Vaxkiller town and why i'm in the same tier as Srceenplay? and also Shoshin scum.

[Chara]

Taly: can you talk about your strong Nahdia townread for me?
apologies if that's in your ISO, i'm slowly catching up, and i tend to not do so in an orderly fashion.

Maria: are you still not townreading Dunn? your read on him is valuable for me. :>
and yes Taly, i do trust you for the most part. while reading earlier i had this Taly/Penguin scum theory but i don't know if it holds water. hahaha.

pedit: good. i deserve it. mafia is about being towny, not being helpful, right? ...right?

[Chara]

as long as you're having fun, you win. but winning is the most fun.

[Chara]

Not a lot of time today due to work. Taly/Worst/Chara are likely town and you should be wary of people who voted me highly (except me, because I can't not rate me highly).

VOTE: Fire

p-edit

It was a fairly condescending comment, duck.

what was actually the cause of this drastic change in your rankings from your day 1 feelings? i'd like you to tell me as much as possible about it.

[Chara]

drastic change in your reads from day 1. i know the rankings are from your day 1 thoughts.
terms.

[Chara]

Oh, and Chara... I don't know what's going on exactly with the MariaR/Chara thing, and I do feel confident with my townread on Chara, so I wonder if a vote on Maria means one for Chara, if so...

Also, I want

Chara/MariaR

to confirm this.

Maria and i share a vote now, as anyone paying attention has surely noticed. :>

will address the rest when i'm home, Taly. i doubt Maria/Fire is SvS.

[Chara]

Shoshin needs to actually be productive and state reasons but they could just be lazy I'll wait a little plus I can't vote em if Chara hard nopes me

VOTE: Shoshin

[Chara]

historically, when i work with Maria she's scum, and when i get paranoid of her she's town. so she must be town here, except i've made her switch alignments by deciding to work with her. mafia is so difficult.

also i feel the same way as she does about Taly/worst but i still think they're both town.
and Shoshin scum for me has nothing to do with effort levels, i don't know her.

[Chara]

but i think Taly had a Shoshin town case i liked earlier and i'll revisit that too.

[Chara]

ok, i finished reading Taly's posts on the Fire/Maria connection. i'm not sure it's game-related, and is instead just the way their personalities have decided to clash this game. and both being cop claims.
i think TvS and TvT are both more likely than SvS. and i'm townreading Fire thanks to reading those as well, independent of Maria.

pedit: obviously.

[Chara]

the power of friendship and love.

[Chara]

you're a friend that i love very much. <3

[Chara]

there's something about the word choice in this sequence of post that makes me really, really want to lynch Deas.
do you mind linking me some recent town and scumgames, Deas?

[Chara]

you only make cases in LyLo?

Maria, i don't like the Nahdia vote at the moment, you'll have to convince me. :>
(or force it, but you wouldn't do that to me.)

[Chara]

i've never felt the urge to hammer more than i do now. :>

[Chara]

this is one of those games where i feel like i should be sheeping other people, because my reads are so different from my townreads'.

[Chara]

and i keep coming back to Deas being equally happy with a Penguin and a Nahdia lynch. and also a Shoshin lynch, though he hasn't said so explicitly.

and this is entirely a side note: i've definitely said the phrase before so i'm not begrudging anyone from using it, but does 'this player is town because they said things with a town mindset'

really

say anything at all?

[Chara]

for what it's worth, i don't care about lynch speed. it often has a lot more to do with the game environment as a whole than the alignment of the player being wagoned.

[Chara]

Chara, what're your reads at this point?

they're kind of a mess right now. i'm working on it but i don't have any sort of list to give you.

[Chara]

right now i'd say most of my suspicion lies with Deas.
and i forgot to say this, but thanks for explaining Nahdia-scum, Maria.

i still don't know if i'm onboard. if they're town here i know exactly why they made all the posts they did, so it's very hard to scumread them for it.
i think Shoshin/Deas are my best scumreads right now, followed by Penguin.

i'm not happy for the why on Shoshin, considering it amounts to comparing her play to what i'd do in this situation, when disengaged. simply asking a lot of questions in a directed fashion feels lazy. Shoshin is putting the onus on everyone else to make content in her last several posts.

[Chara]

actually, now that i've typed that out, i like the Shoshin reasoning a bit more. it does bother me.

[Chara]

*glaring at Shoshin, PP, and DV like*

huh, i was wrong about disagreeing with my townreads.

[Chara]

Alright, fuck it. I'll make some cases on my scumreads. Because apparently that's what you guys need to see that I'm town.

implying that this is a strange thing...? :>

[Chara]

what's your preferred way?

[Chara]

not playing well is always an option. there would be no 'reason' for scum Nahdia to be playing like they have been either, as an example.

pedit: that's only a problem if you have more townreads than town in the game.

[Chara]

but, i do understand. there's a reason i haven't hammered Penguin yet.

[Chara]

i actually think Penguin knows he hasn't been playing in a way to be townread, and was in turn suspicious of players townreading him. or knows that he hasn't been towny and was going for towncred by saying that. regardless, i don't think it's incorrect to hunt that way.

if both Nahdia and Penguin are town, i'd powerlynch Deas, by the way. Shoshin-scum could still go with Deas scum.

[Chara]

but i'll finish talking to Shoshin before i want to do anything else.

[Chara]

the notion that Penguin would just scumhunt players townreading him makes no sense. it refers to this game where he knew he was playing as scum. picking a random towngame where Penguin may have been playing differently doesn't mean anything.
so i don't agree that it's a good point, essentially.

also, hello Shepard!

[Chara]

i say the above knowing Penguin could very well be scum, but the logic bothered me enough i had to say something.
and also Penguin still comes in third in my lynchlist after Shoshin.

[Chara]

what's your preferred way?

In an ideal world, I'd cast a few votes to indicate my top suspect and maybe ask a few questions to indicate the direction of my scumhunting process - and it'd be apparent I was town. But when I try that it usually leads to lots of suspicion so I have to adapt to the players I'm with. I thought my questions were pretty good ones here but apparently that's not enough, so I suppose I'll try making cases.

so in your ideal game, you're only asking questions and voting?
my problem with you is you're pushing other players for thoughts and content but driving none of your own. even your questions to me were just going through the motions for bookkeeping rather than anything real.

[Chara]

Hi Chara.

Why wouldn’t PP if town hunt everyone?

Why is your vote with a slash?

That’s weird.

what i mean is, Penguin's logic here is he's scummy so it's strange for players to townread him. unless he's scummy in every one or most of his towngames, it'd be very strange to think Penguin would be scumreading players who townread him in any random towngame.
Shoshin saying "he didn't do that in this one towngame i looked at, prove me wrong Penguin" to a player who has essentially given up by any cursory glance isn't really doing any work.

[Chara]

my vote is a slash with Maria because our votes are stuck together.

[Chara]

Why would you think this? Why is it more likely that he's a townie intentionally playing scummy rather than scum who is actually scummy?

it's not intentional, it's perfectly possible to be aware you're not playing towny while not doing so intentionally. if "being town" was as easy as being town, nobody would ever be mislynched.

[Chara]

Why are you so concerned with appearing town rather than just playing to a town wincon in order to just help town win?

Super Pro Tip, do town things, and town reads will follow, this much concern about being townread by people troubles me. It troubles me quite a bit.

I understand why you'd be concerned about this but you also need to understand where I'm coming from. Even the best townies get mislynched sometimes; being townread isn't always as simple as doing pro-town things, sometimes it's a matter of presenting your thought process in a way that allows others to understand how it comes from a town perspective.

I'm concerned about appearing town because I've been disengaged from the game to the point where there's an understandable amount of paranoia about my alignment, and when I started getting back into the game doing pro-town things, people still called me scum because I didn't have enough certainty and they didn't like my question-based approach.

My sense is that people are getting caught up in the way I'm presenting my thoughts instead of actually looking at what I'm saying, so I'm presenting basically the exact same information except in the form of cases. Like, I had said most of the stuff in my PP case before. There's not really much new stuff there. I just put the information together in a different way so that players who can't read between the lines see what I'm saying and are better able to understand my thought process.

does anyone here have experience with scum Shoshin? this post just ruined my scumread but it could be faked by someone with any sort of reasonable skill at doing so.

[Chara]

Who do you think is scum on the PP wagon Nahdia?

my scumspects are Deas, Shoshin, Penguin.
though Shoshin is now outdated.
i'm going to bed now. don't worry if you're town, i'm town. :>

[Chara]

Can yuo explain a bit more in depth on the DV "gameplay" scumread?

Mostly that his voting doesn't align at all with his rankings, or his ranking with his statements on players, especially given the casualness associated.

And where's your thoughts on Nahdia?

Don't like that she rated me highly, said she made her stance on me clear D1, and then disappeared. I don't usually care for people who town read me when I shouldn't be.

<3 Penguin, i agree about Deas. he seems happy with all lynches (Nahdia, Penguin, somewhat Shoshin) and it makes me nervous.

[Chara]

I don't usually care for people who town read me when I shouldn't be.

i'm inclined to believe this because i understand the feeling. can you link a game, though? according to Shoshin, the onus is on you for doing so.

[Chara]

Okay, cool. I'm asking PP to help me sort him and he's refusing. I'll add that to the list of scummy things PP has done.

is Shoshin usually this simplistic? what benefit does scum PP gain from refusing to disprove something he can very

easily

disprove?

that one honest-sounding post still bothers me but i really prefer a Shoshin lynch. and i like his Deas scumread too.

i'm going to look really stupid if you're scum Penguin, so please don't.

sorry for all the posts. i keep meaning to leave and then i see something i want to respond to.

pedit: oh, my vote isn't stuck. i can move it wherever i like, i just won't until i know where to concentrate it. it's pointless to move it if Maria can just move it back.

[Chara]

side note: Maria may have been right about Nahdia. sorry Shepard. if you're town though, i promise i'll figure it out.
Shepard/Shoshin/Deas/?
forget how many players we have. night all.

pedit: i'm not the best person to ask. i only recently got engaged again. but i would say checking out Taly, Penguin, and Shoshin as priorities.

[Chara]

is Shoshin usually this simplistic? what benefit does scum PP gain from refusing to disprove something he can very easily disprove?

Why'd you read PP's refusal to mean he could easily disprove it but doesn't want to? Why isn't it something that he's refusing because he can't?

because when players say "i've done this as town before" it's true 99% of the time. and his attitude this game made his mindset easy to figure.

[Chara]

i have 15 minutes left of my break, and i'm spending it here.

also people suck. why do they have to yell at me for doing my job. :<

[Chara]

Chara, are you aware of who Commander Shepherd's main is? I know who he is and I can tell you this is par for the course.

i know Shepard very well.

[Chara]

Regarding Fire, I do struggle to see the cop guilty fiasco coming from scum but I’m happy to hear arguments as to why scum comes up with such a convoluted plan.

this is one of many of Deas's posts that make me wonder how open he is to any lynch that might have traction.
Maria's vaguely town and Fire's vaguely scum in his last look at the 'cop claims', but there's some mild heat on Fire so Deas is still interested.
combined with my earlier feelings and my scumread hasn't really abated one bit.

[Chara]

switch Maria and Fire in my last post.

[Chara]

If you were town, I'd have expected you to enter the game hoping I was town and looking for reasons to townread me, not scumread me.

why do you think this?

[Chara]

and i'm not looking for the answer you already gave of having a history, i'm asking why a town Shepard would be "looking for" reasons to townread you as opposed to just looking at your play and reacting accordingly to it.

[Chara]

This isn’t accurate at all?

Also I think the post you quoted makes it pretty clear that I’m unlikely to entertain a lynch on Fire, but obviously if people are suspecting him I want to talk about it.

i corrected in my next post.

[Chara]

Also Chara I’m interested in if you gained anything from asking for links to my recent games or was that just an empty question.

I’d also like to know why you’re suspicious of me being potentially open to lynches of PP, Nahdia-slot and Shoshin. I would think it pretty usual for someone to be potentially open to more than one lynch, and you have also expressed an openness to multiple lynch options, so it seems weird that you would scumread it.

it's not having multiple lynch options, everyone does. it's the sense i get that you're interested in all of them but are trying to give the impression you have specific preferences.

i didn't say anything more about the links because checkibg them out didn't tell me as much as i would have liked either way. thanks for posting them, though.

[Chara]

i'm so so tired and i am really not going to case anyone, but i think ManWithNoName is a great candidate for scum and that's based on his play, not Srceen's. i know this because i forgot he had replaced Srceen until i checked just now.
not interested in lynching Shoshin anymore. i've decided to listen to those few moments of "oh, this really looks honest" over the parts that bother me.

wish we had more time because there are a bunch of things i want to look at in light of that but can't.
Deas/Shepard/NoName/someone i overlooked?
could be Penguin but it feels easy. i don't want to have been fooled by him, though.

[Chara]

worst: granted, NoName scum has a lot to do with Penguin-town being a thing. so if i'm wrong there, this read doesn't matter. (and i could be wrong, i suck at this.)
it's a combination of small things. unlike Shoshin, there isn't anything from NoName where i can look at it and think 'hmm, that's towny.' his entrance pinged me as scum who was very concerned with the player he'd replaced, too.
also, the speed of the Penguin wagon. NoName's argument is that the wagon being around for a while means it's been difficult to form, and therefore scum are protecting him. if that were the case to NoName, i'd expect some sort of judgement on players like myself who are resisting it. instead it's a very general "his partners are trying for other wagons". that, and a player being unpopular but not getting immediately lynched doesn't make them scum.

unfortunately, Penguin-scum doesn't make NoName town, but it does mean that most of this case is irrelevant.

[Chara]

this is a note to myself about 'Penguin looks like the inevitable laziness lynch at the moment'. will go back to this later if he flips and see how everybody was feeling at this point.

pedit: haha. but seriously, i'd vote Penguin before a no lynch happened.

[Chara]

hopefully, this is a case of me being bad at mafia again.

[Chara]

NoName being brass makes me wonder why he thinks i'm wrong town instead of scum again.
as presumably his posts were in part a reaction to my scumread.

[Chara]

Being wrong does not equal being bad.

stop making me feel bad for scumreading you!

[Chara]

that's true Deas, but from NoNames posts there isn't much of a reference to me (or anyone in particular who opposed Penguin's lynch), and the reaction to my scumread seemed to be frustration about not being townread, implying i'm town to him.
which is fine, but considering our last game together, i feel like brass wouldn't have just accepted me as a consensus townread.


on the other hand, that sort of frustration always looks towny. i'd at least like to see his explanation.

[Chara]

As a completely out-of-this-game-context thing, I can safely say that I have greatly enjoyed the times that I have played with you.

same here.

[Chara]

Chara why you looking at other people like dat..

whatever do you mean?

[Chara]

you're the only one i have eyes for, Maria.
also, i agree.

[Chara]

please don't replace me, i forgot i existed for a while there.
looks like today will be spent going through night actions.

[Chara]

I’d rather vote my “guilty” as I don’t see two protectives in this setup so my “guilty” overrides your inno.

i'm going to keep bringing up that time with the miller, godfather, and no cop before you realize that your incomplete setup spec does not constitute any kind of guilty.

[Chara]

Pretty much yes you have a cop inno that you say was on Vax but redirection, bus driver, god father

These are all potential things that can impact what you are saying.

However I was shot by punreader truth.
I was claimed to have been shot by Vax.

So either you believe that Vax is a vig and I was protected twice, or you believe that something fucked with your check if real.

The latter is much more reasonable.

one protect could easily account for two shots. it depends on the mod. where's the proof punreader shot you and why do you believe it?
obviously, you could also be lying, but as we're talking about your reasoning here, that point is irrelevant for the moment.

[Chara]

MariaR, do you know if you were roleblocked?

I don't know. All I know was I was auto bp'd

are you absolutely sure?

[Chara]

This is also going to flip scum.

Commander then punreader then espeonage

i thought you wanted Punreader first in case he shoots?

[Chara]

Okay I'm still just as confused as I was before.

What I need is townies that I can believe in as townies.

If anyone would like to apply for the position of "town I can believe in as town" I am all ears, because right now it's at the stage where I just need to talk stuff through with someone in order to sort all this out.

you going to be around in 5 hours? i'm at work now but i'll be home then.
also i'm town and you can believe in me, ask basically anybody. ;>

[Chara]

i hate all of this because i've been working too much to get a good read on the situation.
but i am fairly confident Deas is town now when i wasn't before, so that's a good thing.

also i'm townreading Fire and still suspicious of NoName. luckily we have a week and i finally have a day off tomorrow to sort myself out.

[Chara]

i hate all of this because i've been working too much to get a good read on the situation.
but i am fairly confident Deas is town now when i wasn't before, so that's a good thing.

also i'm townreading Fire and still suspicious of NoName. luckily we have a week and i finally have a day off tomorrow to sort myself out.

Why are you townreading fire?

kind of a personality read. scum is winning right now (if you think this is false, please tell me) and i don't think this is how he would respond to that if scum. but i'm still looking.