Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're missing the point Byron.

If I wanted to hide/withhold information - why would I state that I am hiding/withholding information? Instead of just hiding/withholding the information without explicitly stating that I am doing so.

Last time I'm asking this before I conclude you're scum who doesn't want to backtrack on a read.

[ByronVilla]

You're missing the point Byron.

If I wanted to hide/withhold information - why would I state that I am hiding/withholding information? Instead of just hiding/withholding the information without explicitly stating that I am doing so.

Last time I'm asking this before I conclude you're scum who doesn't want to backtrack on a read.

I see it as a taunt. I feel like you were going in on Lefty quite hard, and so you felt it appropriate to essentially say 'hey look at my wagon, I have town info on you but I'm still gonna wagon you anyways'. However from both a town and scum perspective I don't really understand why you'd post that message.

[ByronVilla]

You wouldn't mind explaining why you made that post would you? That would certainly clear up the confusion around it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, so if you can't discern an alignment from that post then I'm gonna need to know why you're voting me.

[wavemode]

Wave, can you talk about Byron and Invis being in your town reads please?

On Invis I lean town weakly. I don't think scum!Invis makes 101 with no hesitation or qualification the way he did. Not sure what he would stand to gain from it, unless he'd played with me before and knew that I make observations like this

On Byron I lean town sort of strongly. His posts bleed genuine motives. The disagreement he has with you seems to simply be a clash of playstyles. I hate to be THAT guy, but this smells like TvT.

[Gustavo]

I mean being an ass is a scumtell for me

You should probably work to change that. Very rarely are scum in the assholes.

[ByronVilla]

Right, so if you can't discern an alignment from that post then I'm gonna need to know why you're voting me.

I'm not voting you purely based on that one post. I'm voting you based on your general attitude towards the game. Now answer my question please.

[Gustavo]

For now Byron v bbt is tvt.

I’ve got a good list of town reads so far. We should lynch teacher and go from there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah OK. Attitude doesn't make someone scum so you're gonna have to try harder than that.

Thanks for response Wave, I disagree with reasoning on Invis vote as I could easily see it being qualified as RVS.

I disagree on Byron as well - this feels like scum who don't want to backtrack on a read. Trying to stay consistent/how they think they would act as town.

[ByronVilla]

BBT, why aren't you answering my question? What would you lose by answering it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't lose anything - but I don't gain anything either so...meh.

[ByronVilla]

I don't lose anything - but I don't gain anything either so...meh.

Ok let's put what the town gains/loses. Town gains information, and therefore by you not answering we don't get that information. Overall the town has nothing to lose and everything to gain from you answering the question. Just because you're indifferent it doesn't mean you should put your own indifference in front of giving out information to the town.

[ByronVilla]

Oh yeah and if you haven't noticed yet, I very much believe the more information the town has the better, and that's my main goal of my mafia games. Get all information possible out and use that to find the scummy stuff lying in it. By not giving out information, you directly clash with my gameplan. D1 especially I feel people need to be a lot more open and express their honest feelings, as that's the best way to find scum, as scum are going to struggle with the whole honesty thing.

[ByronVilla]

Oh one more thing before I flood this thread, I'd like to hear a few reads from Tommy and Performer. They've done nothing much and I want to hear what they have to say.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Byron trying way too hard to sound town there.

Is it really this easy.

Teacher/Byron/???

[ByronVilla]

Jesus christ you just love using OMGUS don't you? Learn some respect jesus

[wavemode]

Thanks for response Wave, I disagree with reasoning on Invis vote as I could easily see it being qualified as RVS.

I understand that possibility (small as it might be - the wagon was clearly formed for serious reasons), but at the end of the day I'm not claiming it would have gotten him lynched to vote there as scum - I'm just saying he had nothing to *gain*. It would have been a risk for no benefit to vote and offer no dialogue or reasoning there, IMO, as opposed to giving some reasoning and attempting to look like a contributing townie. UNLESS, as I said, it was a 5D chess move to fool the observant. In my experience this flips town 8 times out of 10

I disagree on Byron as well - this feels like scum who don't want to backtrack on a read. Trying to stay consistent/how they think they would act as town.

Oh, come on now, be objective. Does this REALLY read to you like a push for your throat? What does scum gain from 107, making points that he himself admits (several times, in other posts) are not necessarily scummy but anti-town? "scum who don't want to backtrack on a read" ehhh byron was not under any pressure to start taking shots at you. He created this whole stink unprompted. If he's scum here, he must think he can not only get you lynched but also recover from your town flip afterward. But he's not playing to that objective whatsoever. He seems to just really want to know what the fuck is up with your read lol. Usually once I reach the position of "if this person were scum, he'd have to actually just be fucking retarded" I set them aside. Like,

maaaaaayyyybeeee

but we can deal with him later if he is. In my experience this flips town 99 times out of 100

[Lefty]

i was addressing this interaction from invisibility. its easy to spew town this early on a stance like that. It's not "fluff". It's invisibility purposefully looking town. tbh i believe scum have more to gain from spewing town early and seek to do so more than actual townies.

Wouldn't Town say the same thing on that topic? So the difference is people not mentioning it and (from you pov) Invis going out of their way to say it?

[Lefty]

There may be something that tells me you're town - but I want to ignore it for now.

@BBT lefty is either scum or new town. New scum would react the same way though. I dont think his reaction is AI. Scum would surely know the 1st wagon never goes through and would welcome it instead of fighting it so meticulously. That's the only reason i'd lean town on lefty. Not saying i lean town on lefty yet for the record.

Lots of words to hedge on a null read.

[Tommy Egan]

im not a fan of things that are easy tpo say for ppl to look town. especially early.

I agree with this, problem with it is your post looks LAMIST to me here. You're actually fallingfoul of what you're arguing against.

Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.

I agree with this. But then why this:

Unfortunately, secret alts are all over the place. I'd sooner policy lynch em all!

This is a good point that you ignored BBT could you answer this question?

There may be something that tells me you're town - but I want to ignore it for now.

@BBT lefty is either scum or new town. New scum would react the same way though. I dont think his reaction is AI. Scum would surely know the 1st wagon never goes through and would welcome it instead of fighting it so meticulously. That's the only reason i'd lean town on lefty. Not saying i lean town on lefty yet for the record.

Are you saying that town wouldn't do that?

btw in the otter v penguin discussion, hands down otters. They are just so damn cute

Not a chance in hell unless you're scum. Town are penguins 100% of the time.

I second Gustavo's question.

I don't like this, looks like it could come from a scum!BBT buddying a town!Gus

VOTE: tchill I don't like that he was lamist in a post about being anti lamist then said only scum wouldn't contest an early wagon on them.

This games a weird one, on one hand some people have gotten too deep too early and on the other some are stuck in RVS.

[Lefty]

wavemode

BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

Lefty

ByronVilla

Invisibility

Gustavo
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu
Performer
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

teacher

Can you explain why you have Teacher & TChill so low?

[wavemode]

I have no particular reason to townread Tchill at the moment, nor teacher

[Lefty]

Byron/BBT looks like Town to me. I get where Byron is coming from but BBT strikes me as a player who likes to be contrary, and I don't see the motive for scum to put attention on themselves for intentionally doing things that can be seen as negative.

I'm gut scum reading Gustavo right now.

pedit - @Wavemod - so POE?

[Lefty]

For now Byron v bbt is tvt.

I’ve got a good list of town reads so far. We should lynch teacher and go from there.

Mind sharing that list?

[Lefty]

This games a weird one, on one hand some people have gotten too deep too early and on the other some are stuck in RVS.

Blame the new guy
still trying to get a feel/the hang of playing on MS.
fwiw I thought this was a good post