Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[teacher]

Im actually surprisingly in a fairly similar space, with only about two amended reads, from yesterday. All the LONG lefty-gus spat did is confirm that I don’t like Gustavo. He has acknowledged being calculatedly robotic this game, but it has struck me as a non-voting form of OMGUS, along the lines of “I know you are but what am I.” See, for example 346, or compare posts 159 and 206 with 300 or 360.

Now that could be playstyle and not necessarily/strongly AI. The scumread remains the same, however – that I feel like he withholds information AND votes low hanging fruit. To be fair, Gus has denied both charges: 224 on withholding; 261 and 264 for voting.

I just don’t buy it. Again, I don’t see how the author or 159 and 206 (linked above) can deny withholding just 20 posts later. And I don’t see how someone who has been on every leading wagon, claims to have reasons for his votes (261), but then only provides 1 (264) can deny being opportunistic.

Additional ramifications from this read: I like lefty more. I really don’t like the performer wagon. And my townread on wave has been weakened, because he didn’t notice the conflict between Gus’s 264 RVS claim and Wave’s earlier defense of Invisibility because “the wagon” on me “was clearly formed for serious reasons” – not RVS. (141).

Additional read from this spat: I don’t like Invisibility’s reaction to lefty coming out of this spat, and then complete 180 when pushed by BBT. 369 to 384. Since it was not his first walkback of the game (310), I could hammer this.

Request for reaction to this read: TChill’s 317 was very interesting to me in that I don’t have strong reads on Performer other than based on the unflipped wagon comp, but Im still inclined to push Gus. Can you explain the theory behind this or otherwise try to convince me; I just think I don’t understand where you are coming from, especially in light of the fact that Gus claims to have reasons and you think (462) any reason “IS A LIE”. (I also don’t understand 463 side-by-side with 462 -- a content push with a page limit???)

A brief aside to Gustavo: In 224, you asked what I meant by backhanding in 213. I meant giving a halfhearted response to a question. To me, it seemed like your response to my question was functionally the same as Lefty’s response to you, but you criticized Lefty for giving it – it seems like you don’t hold yourself to the same standards you are applying to others.

[Nosferatu]

be careful scumreading gus

you might just be a closet bigot

[Nosferatu]

That’s also interesting but could be nothing

well it means they're not scum together.

[Nosferatu]

Yeah, of the 4 on my wagon, disliking Nos the most. Added to sr . Feels like he's sliding by and just keeping his read there on me.

gonna do something about it?

[Gosrir Elmer Odels]

@gosrir: to which I ask, why do you feel like we aren't scumbuddies?
Why does Nos make you less anxious than tommy? What about now, and why?
You mentioned that you feel good about invisibility. Has anything changed on that read?

Teacher's vote on Gus seems to come off the back of your FOS. I haven't spelt it out, btw, but my reason of voting him is his Gus vote. That wagon was in the air at that point, & his hopping on it feels opportunistic if you look at his reasoning. Point is: if both of you were scum, he wouldn't have a reason to vote there becasue to much of the wagon's traction would've come from scum.
I don't like that Tommy liked my 77. It's also unclear why he's voting TC atm. Nos doesn't have those kind of issues, while his latest posts show a genuine attempt at scumhunting, so reagarding the "now" part, I feel better about him.
Invis's vote on BV was town imo. It was past the point when that wagon could've achieved something just by its momentum, so it confirmed to me that he had genuine suspicions. He hasn't really done anything lately except for something during Lefty vs Gus, which I don't have a firm grasp on right now. I'll need to reread that.

[Tchill13]

@teacher if gus said he had actual reasons for voting performer I missed that.

[teacher]

@teacher if gus said he had actual reasons for voting performer I missed that.

Thats how I understood 439/442 + 261/264. Did you take 442 (when you quoted it) differently?

[Lefty]

The depth in some of those reads are pretty nice. I forgot what Mafia felt like when you aren’t playing with loads of meta.

@teacher - a lot of those points you’re making about Gus just make him a hypocrite. Not sure I’d say it’s AI. To be clear, my issue with Gus so far is that his scum equity is high when thinking from the perspective that he’s been pushing a lot of ~Townies for easy/poor/opportunistic (insert adjective) reasons.

Like I know I’m Town. Performer looks Townish. I think you could be Town. Invis maybe Town, least sure on them of the bunch. I know it’s lolD1 but looking at the big picture of the directions he’s moved, he looks bad imo.

[Lefty]

@GEO could you explain what you meant by Gus’s wagon being in the air when Teacher voted? IIRC nobody had discussed him yet but me and Performer’s FOS. I was the only person voting Gus at the time.

[Garmr]

BBT/performer scumteam yea nay?

Yeah I was getting that vibe but it seems too obvious for me. I don't see Scum!BBT going out of his way to protect Performer but it's a possibility.

In my experience it's rarer for scum to protect a team mate than a townie. If one were to flip scum I would be more inclined to feel the other is town. On the other hand a town flip says nothing about the others alignment.

On a side note I need to give myself a kick up the ass and give this all a reread. Building up the motivation to give a proper read of the stuff I missed because of time zone differences is draining. It's a shame I can't stay up every night till 5 am to catch it while it's fresh.

[Lefty]

Actually I’ll just cut to the chase because I don’t think you’re representing that situation fairly to SR Teacher and it sorta strikes me as TMI irt Gus. I don’t remember you stating a read on that slot previously.

[Lefty]

UNVOTE: Gustavo
VOTE: Gosrir

[Garmr]

Nearly finished compiling my thoughts of BBT (which took me like 2 hours to with the content his posted.) But what I noticed is, how much of a struggle it's to get a Invisibility lynch; (Maybe I should be pushing harder admittedly) despite nearly no one town reading him and people disliking his content. It's feels like it's been a slow grind compared to other wagons that pop up in a flash.


Anyone want to give me reasoning as to why he shouldn't be lynched Today?

[Gustavo]

A brief aside to Gustavo: In 224, you asked what I meant by backhanding in 213. I meant giving a halfhearted response to a question.

I didn’t give a half hearted response. I answered your question genuinely

[Gustavo]

I know you are but what am I.” See, for example 346, or compare posts 159 and 206 with 300 or 360.

Refusing to tell somebody my town reads is completely not the same as refusing to explain your reasons for scum reading somebody, especially when my iso already provides the answer to who I was town reading.

Also let me ask you something. If somebody blatantly lies about you and uses that to call you scum. Is that person more likely town or scum?

[Gustavo]

That’s also interesting but could be nothing

well it means they're not scum together.

How?

[Gustavo]

@teacher if gus said he had actual reasons for voting performer I missed that.

I’m not sure how you missed it.

[Gustavo]

teacher - a lot of those points you’re making about Gus just make him a hypocrite. Not sure I’d say it’s AI. To be clear, my issue with Gus so far is that his scum equity is high when thinking from the perspective that he’s been pushing a lot of ~Townies for easy/poor/opportunistic (insert adjective) reasons.

So you know everyone I’m pushing is town? Interesting...

[Gustavo]

Like I know I’m Town. Performer looks Townish. I think you could be Town. Invis maybe Town, least sure on them of the bunch. I know it’s lolD1 but looking at the big picture of the directions he’s moved, he looks bad imo.

Oooh way to play that scum slip off

[Invisibility]

since a handful of ppl threw lefty out as town lefty probably IS town.

wut
also i don't think you're scum rn

So you first thought chill was suspicious, a little later, you say he's not scum. How'd you get from a to be? All you're saying in your ISO was how suspect he was, then you suddenly change and say he's not scum.

Every single post? It was a weak read that was made because i was struggling for reads

[Gustavo]

Like I know I’m Town. Performer looks Townish. I think you could be Town. Invis maybe Town, least sure on them of the bunch. I know it’s lolD1 but looking at the big picture of the directions he’s moved, he looks bad imo.

Oooh way to play that scum slip off

And for the record out of those names I’ve only voted performer who NOBODY who is town can say his fos of me was townish. Calling out people for doing questionable things, regardless if somebody else thinks they look town is scum hunting whether you want to admit it or not.

Your accusations towards me were terrible and I called you on it, some of the things you accused me of aren’t even AI and there is at least one lie. So if you are supposedly town why is it scummy for me to call you on your bad okay?

The whole invisibility things is hilarious. His attack on Byron was the exact same kind of attack that Byron did. That makes him a hypocrite and I called him out on it. What’s really suspicious about that?

I’ll tell you. Absolutely nothing.

Oh and btw, you can only accuse me of going after “low hanging fruit” if I actually go after low hanging fruit.

Just because you town read somebody, doesn’t actually make them low hanging fruit.

Additionally by assigning the label “low hanging fruit” you are basically conceding their actions are questionable but because you town-read them they aren’t suspicious to you which makes my pushes on them completely justified from my POV since I don’t town read them and they are not in my town pile and I have to try and sort them. In order for me to sort them I have to examine their actions.

[Gustavo]

UNVOTE: Gustavo
VOTE: Gosrir

Talk about going after low hanging fruit.

[wavemode]

A wind came up out of the sea,
And said, "O mists, make room for me."

It hailed the ships, and cried, "Sail on,
Ye mariners, the night is gone."

And hurried landward far away,
Crying, "Awake! it is the day."

[teacher]

A brief aside to Gustavo: In 224, you asked what I meant by backhanding in 213. I meant giving a halfhearted response to a question.

I didn’t give a half hearted response. I answered your question genuinely

We will agree to disagree. I asked what you thought of X and Y. You said you didnt find X or Y notable/worrying. That to me is a half-dodge; youre saying that you didnt think it was important, but still didnt provide whatever thoughts you may have had. You'll respond that you had no thoughts; I doubt that but fair enough. Regardless, this is fast becoming a mountain over something that is is just a small fraction of my hypocrite issues -- see, e.g., the posts linked before and also 521, I dont see how Gosrir is low hanging fruit. Want to explain that?

If somebody blatantly lies about you

This is also part of my issues with you. I feel like youre playing surface level robotic but get very heated with sustained pressure (performer=bigot, lefty=blatantly lies). TBH, I disagree that there was any bigotry or any blatant lie, I think he just overread your post on invis in a way you potentially meant it to be overread -- your response, like on the scumreads point in the left spat, focuses too much on the semantics of your posts rather than the thrust of it for me. One thing I do find interesting is that you havent yet turned that heat on me.

[wavemode]

Let’s start with the SRs on Tommy/Teacher.

I know tommy is low content but, again, there's still substance to his play that I don't like

his first point is idiotic but ok newbtown could say that

when he says "I don't like this, looks like it could come from a scum!BBT buddying a town!Gus" in response to BBT's "I second Gustavo's question." im already like... er wut? but then also in his own post he goes "This is a good point that you ignored BBT could you answer this question?" so its okay for him to second someone's question but it's not okay for BBT to?

then consider the context of the post, we were already well underway in the game and he goes "This games a weird one, on one hand some people have gotten too deep too early and on the other some are stuck in RVS." pretty pointless statement but also it sort of feels like a pseudo-apology for shallow analysis. when looking over how selectively he is trying to poke and prod for meaningless things to throw shade at people with it sounds like scum who knows he hasn't much to contribute but wants to try to explain it away with "well the game is weird". it sort of goes back to that proverb that the evil man runs when nobody is chasing him. on review of that combined with his general lurkiness it's enough for me to color him pink