Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Lefty]

I don’t think Garmr is scum. He’s been bringing it every time he posts.

I think BV is getting more credit than deserved for unvoting on a ML that was ~more than likely going through anyway. I wanna reread them in ISO but outside of the BBT interaction early inn D1 I don’t really think they look super Townie.

I really don’t have an issue with Nos. I’d like to hear the reasons for the Teacher wagon. GEO looks like scum to me. I’d be down to lynch them.

Still want to reread but I don’t know when that’ll happen.

[Garmr]

I'm not scared of anything. I have no real solid absolute reason to push you yet. I'm very wary of you. You've been very low key, then pushed nos when other names would have been easier to push. Bbt, Byron and teacher has been spoken about and you randomly jumped in with nos.

THEN IT WAS IGNORED COMPLETELY THAT NOS WAS A POSSIBILITY.

Which actually gives me more reason to TR you atm if I look at that information objectively without gut feeling.

So I'm kinda stuck. I feel that you flew the most under the radar d1 but I do like that you pushed nos.

Didn't mean to be low key just not feeling 100% this game I have a lot more doubts than I normally do.

Tbh there's 2.5/3 scenarios where you are town and scum that keep going through. But starting to talk about possible roles,night kill speculation etc. When I was new I'd get in trouble for accidentally/ outing town roles so I don't really want to elaborate to much on it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can someone else tell me why teacher is a good lynch? Lefty or chill for instance?

I don't like byron's sudden tr on invis on d1, ending with his unvote.

You know, I was looking back at teacher to try and remember why I was scum reading him and outside of his poor early questioning and buddying of Garmr, I can't really remember why. Yet, I still feel good that teacher flips scum. I've got a feeling I've been influenced by other people's posts who I've been townreading and that is where the strength of read came from. Gonna have to look into this when I get some time.

Believe it or not, Byron's unvote on Invis is getting him townreads and it absolutely blows my mind.

[Nosferatu]

You had Invis in your scumreads earlier on in the day then you gave no indication that you town read him or his position changed. You positioned yourself to vote invis because you could default back to your earlier reads if you needed to also in that position you could wait to see what happens. You would think a town nos would interact with the wagon of a scumread/former scum read, instead of watching to see what happens.

you don't remember what town nos is like then lol

I would never position myself to vote someone as scum, especially given the playstyle I've decided to go with this game. I'm townhunting, so I'll vote legit anyone as long as they're not in my stronger townreads. Positioning myself to vote invis is unnecessary because I put myself in a position to vote literally anyone pretty early on in this game. In fact, I was actually planning on voting invis, but he got hammered when I was afk.

I also did give an indication that his position changed.

You asked the question but didn't push it any further. You don't seem bothered if you get info out of them or not. You haven't done anything with the questions you asked to form any reads.

I don't really ask questions for the purpose of forming reads. Pretty rarely at least.

the post in question isn't even really directed at anyone in particular, and I continued the line of thought (pushing it further), so I'm not sure why you chose it to go with this point. I'm sure there are other posts I've made that would go along with this better.

Didn't really address the rest of my post through.

Well, I kinda did coast d1, I don't really have scumreads so arguing against the consensus thing is just ??? and a good measure of my posts are filler.

So there were no questions I could ask you about the other points.

[Tchill13]

OK if yall weren't pushing Byron then who's scum? Because I don't think Byron unvotes there as scum unless he's scum with invisibility. If invisibility wagon doesn't go through Byron is lynched.

If he's scum that's completely opposite of the "inexperienced" vibe I'm getting from Byron.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1.scum reads seem to follow general consensus.

2.Spent most of day 1 costing

3.A lot of his posts are just filler, Look at post 222 it adds nothing to the game and makes him look like his doing something.

4.Post like 484 seem to lack drive he doesn't captalise on it. In fact if you read through his iso. He doesn't really push anything to get information out of it.

5. Put himself in a position where he could lynch invis if he wanted to but waited to see how people would react. Was online for role reveal didn't put his thoughts down on invisible wagon. Put in a fluffy statement anyone could of made. Nos also made it clear that invis was a scum read early so I would think he would at least have a reaction to invi being lynched.

Question to you name a time when he actually furthered the game state or got information out of a push we otherwise wouldn't of got.

This is a good post. A couple of questions;

I'm not sure if 1 is true - do you have examples of this? 2 is good (though there are other people coasting as well), 3 is also true but I'm not sure filler = scum.

4 and your final point I really like - there doesn't seem to be any drive from Nos to do anything. No pushes on scum reads, no collaboration with town reads, doesn't bring new information to the game. This is the main reason I like this post - could easily see scum playing in this way.

Can you elaborate on 5? I need to go back and see what Nos' reactions were around the Invis wagon (phone posting atm) but again, as your point states, I don't remember Nos having much involvement with it. He kind of just let it happen.

VOTE: wavemode

Why?

I am starting to feel like I'm on an island in how I see the byron v bbt case.

Elaborate?

VOTE: Nos

My points from d1 still stand.

This could be sticky scum.

0 reevaluating and if Nos is town I think it's an easy push for scum to make.

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

Why? I'm not getting that at all.

[Tchill13]

Scum tingles are just gut feeling due to coasting d1.

[Tchill13]

If you see in one of my last post I actually walk through TR'ing garmr

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i want both of yall to be town.

Byron because of his unvote d1. BBT because of his style.

If im FORCED to choose scum between yall i'd have to choose BBT. For future reference.

Town reading Byron because of his unvote is absurd. Scum do it all the time to avoid being on a wagon that goes to lynch. Nobody but Invis was getting lynched, it was safe to jump off and allow the lynch to go through.

Look at his reasoning for jumping off - it reeks of scum with TMI. He cites Invis' posting at L-1 as the reason and yet all Invis did was 'lol' post. Like, how am I the only person seeing this?

of course OMGUS makes byron look terrible there.

You seem to have numerous reasons for scum reading Byron and yet the only thing you have for town reading him is his unvote.

Why does that one action take precedence over everything else you have said in this game?

why is byron getting pushed?>

BBT and LEfty specifically.

what does scum have to gain from unvoting a mislynch there when it was very possible if the invis wagon died then byron would be lynched? byron is practically conftown because of that. If he's scum then great play. I don't think he's capable of that though.

Firstly, you need to reread your own posts - you have posted numerous reasons throughout the game for Scum!Byron. Yet, the unvote seems to trump everything and I don't understand why.

There is no guarantee that Byron would have been the lynch if not Invis. Show me that was the case.

Did you read Byron's posting at start of D2 as well? It's really bad with regards to his push on me and I'm astounded that you seem to have completely ignored it.

Teacher is looking like scum here imo.

Talk about this TChill?

i'd like to know where ppl stand on byron and nos specifically.

Byron scum and Nos more likely scum than not. I'm struggling because Byron/Nos/Tommy can't all be scum. That would mean all scum avoided the Invis wagon. So I'm very likely wrong on two of these.

Tommy voting Nos is also unlikely to be scum/scum and between the two I would say Nos is more likely to flip scum. So l'm gonna put Tommy in the town pile for today and see what happens.

Snip.

Yeah, this is good posting.

So nothing was wrong with my invisibility vote in your own words. So what are the scum tingles from??? Is it because I pushed nos just now.Sounds kinda like a chainsaw.

@BBT are you 100% sure tchill is town.

I felt really good about TChill on D1 because we were on the exact same page. Start of D2 though and the disagreement on Byron has me worried. Either way, I'm not even entertaining the thought of scum!TChill today. He stays in my town pile. If Byron flips scum though, this read 100% gets reevaluated.

Nothing was wrong with your invisibility vote because I was trying to get invisibility lynched. If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm.

Really? From your perspective Garmr is scum over Performer, GEO and Aristo? That's incredible.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I made a mistake, Tommy was on the Invis wagon.

I feel like my head is all over the place at the moment - really struggling to nail down reads. I started the day wanting to lynch from the Invis wagon but I think I now actually want to lynch off it.

Gonna spend some time today getting my reads together and then deciding what I want to do.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don’t think Garmr is scum. He’s been bringing it every time he posts.

I think BV is getting more credit than deserved for unvoting on a ML that was ~more than likely going through anyway. I wanna reread them in ISO but outside of the BBT interaction early inn D1 I don’t really think they look super Townie.

I really don’t have an issue with Nos. I’d like to hear the reasons for the Teacher wagon. GEO looks like scum to me. I’d be down to lynch them.

Still want to reread but I don’t know when that’ll happen.

Finally! Byron is being town read solely on his unvote and it's unnerving as fuck. I think Garmr's case on Nos is pretty decent, you read it?

If he's scum that's completely opposite of the "inexperienced" vibe I'm getting from Byron.

What makes you think he is inexperienced?

[teacher]

Started writing back at page 40, but oh well....

[Performer] shows that he is town in that he is not willing to just throw a town read at me, despite me being widely town read, and is more concerned with how difficult he perceives me to be to read. It shows a townie thought process in that he isn't giving me the benefit of the doubt despite my standing in the game.

This is baffling to me. Scum wants to be able to push a mislynch later, which they can do by nulling a spot that they have already buddied. I just don’t buy this explanation regardless of your alignment.

And answering a question with a question is scummy as shit. Why does defensiveness = scum? Why can't town be defensive? What exactly feels forced about his progression on Byron and what is the scum motivation behind doing it?

I didnt answer a question with a question, as all your questions show. I doubted the sincerity of your question, and then proceeded to answer it anyways. And I cant believe I have to explain this to you, since I learned it from this site, but defensiveness is scummy because townies know mislynches will happen and are more concerned with solving the game. Performer's progression on Byron (towning him more over the course of D1) seems fake because Byron went from active and town (through the 200s) to lurking (200-500) (at least until the EoD voteswitch). I dont see how in the 500s Performer could say his play had gotten better over the course. As for scum motivation, buddying? blending in? Being seen to be solvey?

[Teacher]being one of three people who avoided the invis wagon and me leaning town on the other two

Ummm.... The part regarding me is wrong, or at least “bigoted” against those of us who basically take weekends off. I made clear -- in 500, one of the posts you criticize -- that I would hammer invis. I repeat that in 635 with questions. The issue is that I was then offline for the weekend when the wagon got past 4, when there was intent, when the intent was retracted, and when the lynch finally went through. Had I been around, I would have joined. I do find it interesting, though, that you seem to agree with me that there were two scum on the wagon. I have named my candidates. Who are yours?

Teacher, how do you have only 1 tr after 35 pgs?? And why do you say the invis wagon was toxic?

I have one strong townread (like +24 rand, which makes it near 100%). I have several townleans. And I nowhere said the invis wagon was toxic (again, I would have joined). I said BBT made your wagon toxic.

@teacher is the bottom part of your post 730 to me? And what about your gustavo talk and other sr?

Yes, that is why it says performer in the bottom part. As for Gus, I still do suspect his slot, but less based on some of the end of day events, rereading the posts without the heat of the argument, plus I want to give Aristo time to settle in and play a new style. My current scumreads/leans are you, Tommy Egan, and Gus/Aristo.

VOTE: Nos

My points from d1 still stand.

Did you realize this was 100 posts into D2 with some other heat at Nos and some answers? Or did you just want to put a post up? Any interest in helping sort your slot beyond spewing your catchup?

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

Why? I have read your followup interactions with him and didn’t see or understand what you got the tingles from.

i'd like to know where ppl stand on byron and nos specifically.

Townleans, stronger and weaker. Nos I need to evaluate Garmr’s case better than I have had time to now, but I liked their play D1.

upon checking this game and the normal queue rules there's nothing I saw stopping the game from being multiball.

Wrong according to the Wiki – Minis can only have one faction. Also your very next sentence (“I'm not aware of if those would qualify under normal rules”) seems to say you didn’t check the rules. Whats up with that?

I don't know what wave & teacher's reads are , of each other.

Townlean below Byron above Nos from my side. He is voting me.

[Garmr]

1.scum reads seem to follow general consensus.

2.Spent most of day 1 costing

3.A lot of his posts are just filler, Look at post 222 it adds nothing to the game and makes him look like his doing something.

4.Post like 484 seem to lack drive he doesn't captalise on it. In fact if you read through his iso. He doesn't really push anything to get information out of it.

5. Put himself in a position where he could lynch invis if he wanted to but waited to see how people would react. Was online for role reveal didn't put his thoughts down on invisible wagon. Put in a fluffy statement anyone could of made. Nos also made it clear that invis was a scum read early so I would think he would at least have a reaction to invi being lynched.

Question to you name a time when he actually furthered the game state or got information out of a push we otherwise wouldn't of got.

This is a good post. A couple of questions;

I'm not sure if 1 is true - do you have examples of this? 2 is good (though there are other people coasting as well), 3 is also true but I'm not sure filler = scum.

4 and your final point I really like - there doesn't seem to be any drive from Nos to do anything. No pushes on scum reads, no collaboration with town reads, doesn't bring new information to the game. This is the main reason I like this post - could easily see scum playing in this way.

Can you elaborate on 5? I need to go back and see what Nos' reactions were around the Invis wagon (phone posting atm) but again, as your point states, I don't remember Nos having much involvement with it. He kind of just let it happen.

VOTE: wavemode

Why?

I am starting to feel like I'm on an island in how I see the byron v bbt case.

Elaborate?

VOTE: Nos

My points from d1 still stand.

This could be sticky scum.

0 reevaluating and if Nos is town I think it's an easy push for scum to make.

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

Why? I'm not getting that at all.

1. Well his initial vote on performer was a Rvs and Tchill was the one pushing it at the start. Other than that I remember his read list coming out latter than i guess that's wrong for early reads. But the reads list still feels kinda safe. I hate to say it but this points kinda weaker than I originally thought.

5. Well he was saying how willing he was to lynch invis before the wagon picked up full pace. He didn't push on it,jump on it,Disagree with it or offer his opinions on it. He just watched. With invis being in the centre of the list (725) yet still being a because of a possible lynch(223). He had the freedom to form any statement he wanted to and seemed to just wait for invis to get lynched on his own or how town would react. Because the way 725 is structured it gives a lot of freedom for a scum player. Because as scum you don't want to yourself lock in to much.

Also can cross this off as not possible

Tchill BBT masons

Didn't think it was likely but the fact you town read each other for similar thoughts and tchill was asking why he wasn't the same place on a reads list made the thought cross my mind. While you appeared as townie to me tchill just rings my scumdar. Also made me a little hesitant to push to hard incase I outed another mason team by accident.

[wavemode]

Byron is being town read solely on his unvote

false. are you even reading my posts? or anyone else's this whole game w.r.t. byron?

[wavemode]

I do find it interesting, though, that you seem to agree with me that there were two scum on the wagon. I have named my candidates. Who are yours?

er, i don't necessarily agree with that. what evidence do i have of that?

in fact, you being scum is even more likely if only 1 scum was on the wagon, and basically guaranteed if 0 were on it. just saying

[teacher]

You said three avoided and you townread 2. So that implied to me that you assumed two on, one off. But maybe I misread you?

[wavemode]

er, that i townlean on someone does not mean they are definitely town...

[Performer]

Nothing was wrong with your invisibility vote because I was trying to get invisibility lynched. If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm.

It has nothing to do with your nos push.

I'm wondering why your pushing Nas as much as I'm wondering why your push got ignred .

I didn't ignore it. I noticed and said something about garm's push on nos.

I was skimming back through teacher's ISO, he voted bbt, gustavo, said I'm scummy. wave said teacher is scummy and said the other folks (other than byron) - lefty & nos, were also his tr. So I'm starting to think teacher is the way to vote. What's the vc right now though?

Can someone else tell me why teacher is a good lynch? Lefty or chill for instance?

I don't like byron's sudden tr on invis on d1, ending with his unvote.

You know, I was looking back at teacher to try and remember why I was scum reading him and outside of his poor early questioning and buddying of Garmr, I can't really remember why. Yet, I still feel good that teacher flips scum. I've got a feeling I've been influenced by other people's posts who I've been townreading and that is where the strength of read came from. Gonna have to look into this when I get some time.

Believe it or not, Byron's unvote on Invis is getting him townreads and it absolutely blows my mind.

Who's townreading his unvote on invis?? I definitely have not tr him for that.

[Performer]

"I don't really ask questions for the purpose of forming reads. Pretty rarely at least."
I can back that up regarding nos when he's town. Iirc, we played at least 1 mini normal years ago where as town, he played with a minimalist style with minimal questioning.

@bbt regarding the byron v bbt, I felt like I was the only person thinking byron was town and you were possibly....scummy.....
The issue is I still have you at null, which is not that surprising because you have been pushing for my tr deaths. First asking people to get on lefty, later voting gustavo slot, , saying gustavo slot is still scummy on d2, and now voting byron.
However, I'm well aware one of my liabilities is that I strongly dislike pushing for my idols' deaths & I have problems reading them , which is why I've been seeking feedback from others. If you & I make it to mylo or lylo somehow, that is one of my worst nightmares because I will be a big liability.
Also, I completely expected you to die on n1 but you are alive, so I have been growing paranoid as to why you're alive. When we played in a mini normal a couple years ago, you died immediately on n1, and we were both town. So, I am going to lose my mind .

Also @chill, I forgot about your question, sorry about that. From the notes I made yesterday , I think you, nos, lefty, byron, and tommy (slight tr) were on my tr side. I moved garm to null because of his push on nos, which has been interesting to say the least.

I need to reread a few of the wall posts on this page & parse through them .

[Performer]

@teacher
"Wrong according to the Wiki – Minis can only have one faction. Also your very next sentence (“I'm not aware of if those would qualify under normal rules”) seems to say you didn’t check the rules. Whats up with that?"
I was only reading this site game rules on pg 1, and the forum queue normal game guidelines .
I didn't check the wiki pages because I expected the rules to be comprehensive in the mini 2016, as well as from the forum queue normal guidelines. I didn't check the wiki rules regarding hider or other roles qualifying under normal rules, so I wasn't aware if they would qualify - but I didn't mind about that part, as I didn't see it's relevance to the game.

Your answer about wave in your post - you said he's a tr of yours? Confusing for me to understand.

I don't get your sr on tommy and aris .... why? Aris slot from the behaviors & the way he pushed for my death on d1, that's town.

[Performer]

"Well he was saying how willing he was to lynch invis before the wagon picked up full pace. He didn't push on it,jump on it,Disagree with it or offer his opinions on it. He just watched. With invis being in the centre of the list (725) yet still being a because of a possible lynch(223). He had the freedom to form any statement he wanted to and seemed to just wait for invis to get lynched on his own or how town would react. Because the way 725 is structured it gives a lot of freedom for a scum player. Because as scum you don't want to yourself lock in to much." -Garmr's post about nos.

So I went through nos's 40+ posts of his ISO, he did state that he had me, gosrir, and invis as his scumreads. He said I wasn't his top sr; later when he voted gosrir, said he wasn't his top sr either; at end of d1, he had his vote still on gosrir but not invis. So, if he was truly town & had invis as a top sr, why did he not vote invis then? This does indeed look scummy after rereading.

And now garmr pushed nos, nos voted wave. That is bizarre. Normally if someone votes town, and the person is town, he will vote back. But not in this case - bizarre....but nos did have a newer readslist which had wave as an sr to him...

I am starting to get conflicted on my nos read. Would town nos do this or scum nos? Chill seems to have meta with scum nos from what I can tell, when chill said if scum had a good team, it would be nos, gustavo (that was posted on d1).

Moving nos to null read.

[Performer]

Ok so I did some more rereading, nos has wave & garm as his sr. I asked nos why, he said he just doesn't tr garm, and that's all he said . Well , that's fishy.
Along with garm casing & voting nos, nos voted wave instead.
The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.

Also, I just checked votecounts & if my counts were correct, teacher & nos are at 2 votes apiece for leading wagons. We need 7 for lynch today.
VOTE: nosferatu

[Tchill13]

VOTE: nos

This is fine.

[wavemode]

VOTE: wavemode

idk i voted them to see what they'd do but they didn't really care?

i thought this was sort of towny

[Nosferatu]

The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.

I voted almost randomly. Wave was the closest person above me who I didn't townread. I'm not analysing wagons and looking for the lowest resistance ones. I could have just dropped a townread overnight and voted BBT or Byron and enabled their TvT.