Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, you're using those 'town leans' to basically PoE vote someone. If the person you're voting turns out to be town, you can be like 'Huh, guess it's one of the other two people who I only town leaned and didn't strongly town read and I can now call them scum.'

Gives you lots of wiggle room. If you're confident enough to use them town leans to PoE vote someone then you're confident enough to call them town.

[wavemode]

lol. ok. couple of problems

first, if you actually read the post in question, you'd see that I'm not, in fact, using PoE to scumread teacher. Poe simply pushes him further down, i.e. I'm using PoE to vote him rather than, say, tommy

second, if you actually read my iso, I specifically said I'm fine with lynching on wagon but I'd want it to be Egan. Why would my wiggle room be to go after nos or lefty?

third, If you actually read the conversation you'd see that all I'm saying in general is that I'm not certain that 2 scum were on the invis wagon. I'm not making a statement about how I feel about lefty or nos at all

get better at reading maybe?

fourth, and maybe this is a post-game discussion to be had, but what is wrong with reevaluating your reads after flips? Sometimes your day 1 reads are wrong, shocker! I'd be more suspicious of someone never reevaluating the game properly. sorry but you sound like the 2-week-olds I get in newbie games. This mindset mafiascum players seem to have that it's scummy to go after people you used to townread, sort of needs to die

[Garmr]

Garmr, what is your read on Tommy?

I like tommy and town read him. I been town reading him for a while. I liked his nos push day 1 also i'm not 100% sure but I think can see some suspicion of tchill in his post 1040, but he looks like gathering information instead of making accusations straight away.

[Garmr]

Find it kinda off when the nos wagon dies and tchill jumps off onto teacher then says how weird it the situation with nos and I is.

Lets all be honest here

The nos wagon lost steam with out the main points being shut down for a mediocre at best wagon.

Teacher post have been kinda bland null. Because lets be honest the people that are scum reading him are going his to null. Literally search teacher and see how many times the word null pops up. I honestly don't mind lynching null reads but when a null wagon shuts down one with actual legitimate reasoning behind it that's suss.

Also no one who town reads nosf can actually put any real town motivation behind his actions. I'm going to start calling out people who give worthless town nos reads with no reasoning.

this is the case.

Lots of wagons go nowhere. They get stale and people move on. Unless there was a huge push from someone else to make it move there is no reason to assume it was a wagon on scum.

Town dont always need "town motivation" to post, it's scum that need a motivation. So this makes no sense.

And is teacher being null really that worrisome?

I'm not sure but i think he is saying tchill and nos may be partners here and the jump seems forced (unless I missed context)

That's not my case on nos you silly sausage .

Nos why did you sr garmr? Garm , I think nos is town - my read on him hasn't changed since I last posted about him.

The posts on pg 38 are alarming. Hmm.

Everything in my post and a couple more things might as well dot point them


1.scum reads seem to follow general consensus.

2.Spent most of day 1 costing

3.A lot of his posts are just filler, Look at post 222 it adds nothing to the game and makes him look like his doing something.

4.Post like 484 seem to lack drive he doesn't captalise on it. In fact if you read through his iso. He doesn't really push anything to get information out of it.

5. Put himself in a position where he could lynch invis if he wanted to but waited to see how people would react. Was online for role reveal didn't put his thoughts down on invisible wagon. Put in a fluffy statement anyone could of made. Nos also made it clear that invis was a scum read early so I would think he would at least have a reaction to invi being lynched.

Question to you name a time when he actually furthered the game state or got information out of a push we otherwise wouldn't of got.

[Garmr]

Calling these two out now in a scum team now

Nosf,Tchill I'm having trouble with the third member of the scum team.

@BBT look at Tchill day 2 action doesn't that scream obvious scum.

[Garmr]

Would like to point out how much of a struggle it was get a nos wagon going with legit points. But when it comes to my wagon I get a lot of blank votes with no reasoning, kinda funny how the wagon came after I said I'm start going to apply some pressure for actual reasoning on a read. Isn't the point of mafia to get information?

[Nosferatu]

you never responded to me

[Garmr]

Lets all be honest here

The nos wagon lost steam with out the main points being shut down for a mediocre at best wagon.

Teacher post have been kinda bland null. Because lets be honest the people that are scum reading him are going his to null. Literally search teacher and see how many times the word null pops up. I honestly don't mind lynching null reads but when a null wagon shuts down one with actual legitimate reasoning behind it that's suss

your reasons suck bro0oo

Is that even worth responding to?

[Nosferatu]

Lets all be honest here

The nos wagon lost steam with out the main points being shut down for a mediocre at best wagon.

Teacher post have been kinda bland null. Because lets be honest the people that are scum reading him are going his to null. Literally search teacher and see how many times the word null pops up. I honestly don't mind lynching null reads but when a null wagon shuts down one with actual legitimate reasoning behind it that's suss

your reasons suck bro0oo

Is that even worth responding to?

earlier

[Garmr]

You had Invis in your scumreads earlier on in the day then you gave no indication that you town read him or his position changed. You positioned yourself to vote invis because you could default back to your earlier reads if you needed to also in that position you could wait to see what happens. You would think a town nos would interact with the wagon of a scumread/former scum read, instead of watching to see what happens.

you don't remember what town nos is like then lol

I would never position myself to vote someone as scum, especially given the playstyle I've decided to go with this game. I'm townhunting, so I'll vote legit anyone as long as they're not in my stronger townreads. Positioning myself to vote invis is unnecessary because I put myself in a position to vote literally anyone pretty early on in this game. In fact, I was actually planning on voting invis, but he got hammered when I was afk.

I also did give an indication that his position changed.

You asked the question but didn't push it any further. You don't seem bothered if you get info out of them or not. You haven't done anything with the questions you asked to form any reads.

I don't really ask questions for the purpose of forming reads. Pretty rarely at least.

the post in question isn't even really directed at anyone in particular, and I continued the line of thought (pushing it further), so I'm not sure why you chose it to go with this point. I'm sure there are other posts I've made that would go along with this better.

Didn't really address the rest of my post through.

Well, I kinda did coast d1, I don't really have scumreads so arguing against the consensus thing is just ??? and a good measure of my posts are filler.

So there were no questions I could ask you about the other points.

1.Meta saying you would never postion yourself that way as scum is pretty much useless as it doesn't make everything null. Saying if you were ready to hammer invis or not also enforces my point about you waiting to see the out come; I would suspect in your town games you would of put some input about how you saw his claim or not, even a willingness to hammer to show the wagon would go through. Also it shows you can say anything day 2 to adjust to town. Nothing in your answer accounts for those.

2.484 does nothing to push the game forward and you didn't even use any information to push out any more information.

3.This reassures me how?

[Garmr]

Just going to rehash on my Chill and expand a little on it

if the team was gosrir, byron and teacher that'd be pretty funny... oh well. just so you know i think guessing teams is stupid day 1 but ppl do it allll the time.

im not lynching bbt today though. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until day 2 possibly 3. Yes it's solely because i understand his style early which is a very easy style to manipulate as scum early. I'm giving him a chance above everything else i've seen though.

Tr-BBT

Scum-Teacher

no reads in between.

BBT seems to have the same mindset I do early. Pretty much any and every townie is expendable days 1 and 2. Wagon reasoning doesnt matter until theres an actual reason to wagon (a reason that can be validated).

These two clash against each other. Didn't you say "It doesn't matter if a townie gets lynched day 1 according to you as they are expendable?" Your words imply that BBT isn't expendable till a certain day or so. Why is BBT different from others.

Also why are you town reading BBT. Nothing in your speech implies you think BBT is town at most it should be a null read. What town actions taken by BBT justify a BBT town read in your eyes, especially if you are giving him the benefit of a doubt (which implies you think his actions are scummy but giving him a pass)?

Being a easy mislynch isn't a legit reason to town read someone.

I have a couple of reasons why I think there's a discrepancy between your mentality as described by you and your actual actions but I would rather hear it untainted from your mouth.

every townie is expendable until from my own perspective have a reason to not vote them. BBT's style of play and reads are similar to mine. I understand the motivation he has for playing the way he does i do the same all the time. That is a reason for me to TR him (I do not build "reads" the same as others d1) I hand out hard TR's day 1 to ppl ik and/or ppl im comfortable to be able to read by day 3. If BBT is town then great, if he's not im confident enough in myself to figure that out later. Clearing the game of townies that will always be in my lynch pool d1 is almost as useful as lynching actual scum seeing how scum will not be able to take advantage of certain town players anymore.

Yeah town is expendable I get it. But saying I won't lynch BBT day 1 so early on in the game then say maybe day 2 or 3 Just doesn't sit right. For example, he could do something extremely scummy and you could change your mind.

If his a hard town read like you say then phrases like "benefit of the doubt" are out of place. It's like you want wriggle room to lynch him on a further date; Town wouldn't need to announce that.

wavemode

BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

Lefty

ByronVilla

Invisibility

Gustavo
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu
Performer
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

teacher

this is interesting. Why am i so close to teacher and so far from BBT?

I also don't like the mentality of you sewing yourself to BBT. Like "if you town read BBT you have to town read me." I honestly don't think you are coming from a town place.

1.These points still stand despite how early I made them. The most hard hitting point in my opinion is how he tries to tether himself to BBT. In fact early game he is kissing up BBT's ass It comes across buddying. "I understand BBT style comes across as scummy so I won't vote him." Is basically what he said.



2.post 155 comes across as coaching/buddying (depending on BVs alignment) when taken in conjunction with 166. In 155 he acts all friendly trying to get better and in post 166 he smears mud all over Bv saying Bv gives him scum tingles. Will he actually vote byron villa through?

3.Also Find it funny how performer votes me for being a lurker early on then Tchill vote performer for lurking despite no actual lurking occurring at that point. I think Tchill trying to push performer as a lurker is pretty scummy for that stage at the game. Also using a vote to allegedly get information out of someone is bollocks and tchill isn't that trash of a player. 1.one blank vote creates no pressure with out a question 2.performer is not going to care anyway. 3. He never does anything to push performer in the future while having him in the lynch pile, This shows he wasn't worried about getting a read out of performer.


4.Notice how his mentality is people pushing for a lynch on invis are most likely town and how my reasoning are logically sound and correct. His attitude takes a 180 day 2. He gives BV a free pass because he jumped off inis lynch despite the day before saying scum agreeing that it would be beneficial for scum to jump off.

Scum tingles are just gut feeling due to coasting d1.

Just saw this now But I wasn't coasting at all I think even through i had like 34 post (not counting spelling corrections) I would most were hard hitting. The fact I couldn't post heaps more was I was having trouble getting reads out the game with certain players. If you call that coasting you should go back to newbie games. Also now I think about I can't help looking low key because I actually put effort in despite having trouble day 1.


5.Don't want to repeat to much but 977 is him throwing shade. Also noticing his town reading players he thinks he can handle better and does the 180 on me the town read who scum reads him with rushed a pathetic reason.

Nothing was wrong with your invisibility vote because I was trying to get invisibility lynched. If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm.

It has nothing to do with your nos push.

I'm wondering why your pushing Nas as much as I'm wondering why your push got ignred .

This is the progression k.

nothing in garmr's post is wrong which is why im TRing him.

l
l
v

this list in that order is most likely scum to least likely scum lol.

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

So you go from a town read to a scum read. Saying I gave you tingles despite you having no problem with giving me a town read yesterday. Also you don't elaborate as to why you get a scum read. Then when I call you out on it, I left my post in such a way it would provoke a reasoning. But instead of pushing me and getting a response you go

If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm

This is a de-escalating statement. You didn't push a reasoning to try and sort me and it doubles back on your earlier statement. It's like oh if there was scum in that block of 4 people it would be Garmr. The implications are a bit different than Garmr gives me scum tingles. It gives you a bit of wiggle room. Also it doesn't further a attempt to sort me at all.

What I think is you are afraid of confrontation with me; yet you still want to able to vote me latter on if town decides to change the way they read me, while avoiding being locked in a debate.

This still hold strong.

6.With that said, look how quickly he votes nosf when a wagon forms on nosf, just after performer votes. why wouldn't he vote before if he agreed with my vote? Kinda suss timing if you ask me. He also jumps off nosf wagon when the wagon lost steam.

7.

first of all you ppl sound like you have cool lives, second of all. i've got large town, scum and null groups. when i go about sorting one something happens that changes that. such as my garmr gut scum feel. that came and went. Nos was the same. Teacher i've been eyeing as scum for a bit.

There's something fishy about nos and garmr i can't quite put my finger on.

I still feel that BBT, Lefty and Byron are town. strongly.

what has gosrir done exactly? Also thoughts on performer as mislynch bait opposed to being scum.

Oh look at that

VOTE: garmr

stop with the walls please.

Votes me after that post with no explanation. Also again straight after a performer vote.

So anyone notice the pattern for day 2. He only jumps on wagons that are gathering steam or he thinks will If someone tries to push him on a so called scum read with out traction he won't jump on. Also after he established some town reads day 1 he voted performer and did nothing for the rest of the day until he jumped on invisibles mislynch

[Garmr]

Btw i'm fine voting for either tchill or nos at this point.

[Gosrir Elmer Odels]

@Nos: The burden of proof is on your shoulders: Where do you have a townread that was presented in a persuasive way? You might be townhunting, but if so, then not in a way in which town could actually benefit from it.

@Garmr: Could you tell me about your read on Tommy? Why are you townreading him?

Should I address Perf? He seems to have thought Aristo was laughing at the idea that Gus was trying to make his replace out look town (as opposed to the typo I made.) He also seems to think that Gus replaced out b/c of being a toddler allegedly (alleged by Perf), not b/c he had RL issues, even though it's been pretty well established. (The first point is interesting, I guess. I'll ISO him during the weekend b/c I don't have time to do that earlier.)

[ByronVilla]

aite this is mainly a prodge, however at a quick glance I'm noticing a wagon on Garmr and I am very confused, I swear he was like universally townread. Also I'll get to Nos tomorrow, I've been doing some casting over the last two days so my attention's been on that.

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 2.05

Garmr

(4): Not_Mafia, Nosferatu, Performer, Tchill13

teacher

(3): wavemode, Gosrir Elmer Odels, BlueBloodedToffee

Nosferatu

(2): Garmr, Tommy Egan

Aristophanes

(1): teacher

BlueBloodedToffee

(1): ByronVilla

Not Voting

(1): Aristophanes

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-07-05 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends

[Performer]

Starting to townlean wave a little - his reiterations of reading are starting to sound like exasperated town .

Gosrir's 1112 - I don't think I said any of that.

Garm's 1110 is interesting, especially his point 3. Garm mentioned chill voted me for "lurking," which was one of the questionable votes on me in d1. I need to re ISO chill.

[Tchill13]

Calling these two out now in a scum team now

Nosf,Tchill I'm having trouble with the third member of the scum team.

@BBT look at Tchill day 2 action doesn't that scream obvious scum.

Quite the overreaction if you're town.

[Performer]

Yeah , I don't get scum tone from chill, he's looking genuine here from a re ISO of him.

[Tchill13]

Garmr is looking scummier the more pressure is put on him.

If garmr is scum Bbt has defended him hard.

[Tommy Egan]

Garmr is town. I'd put this whole game on Nos being scum.

[Tchill13]

You think so?

I'll go either way honestly because I highly doubt garmr and nos are the same alignment.

[Nosferatu]

1.Meta saying you would never postion yourself that way as scum is pretty much useless as it doesn't make everything null. Saying if you were ready to hammer invis or not also enforces my point about you waiting to see the out come; I would suspect in your town games you would of put some input about how you saw his claim or not, even a willingness to hammer to show the wagon would go through. Also it shows you can say anything day 2 to adjust to town. Nothing in your answer accounts for those.

2.484 does nothing to push the game forward and you didn't even use any information to push out any more information.

3.This reassures me how?

1. thats not meta. its a direct consequences of things ive said this game
2. you picked a stupid post to have this argument with. it was a rhetorical question to the whole that only one person responded to. i dont have to force people to engage with me.
3. coasting is whatever. its practically nai.

[Garmr]

Calling these two out now in a scum team now

Nosf,Tchill I'm having trouble with the third member of the scum team.

@BBT look at Tchill day 2 action doesn't that scream obvious scum.

Quite the overreaction if you're town.

How is this a overreaction I been scum reading you since day 1 and pushing nosf since before this happened. You are painting me pointing out my two top scum reads and enforcing them as a over reaction. Here's some news for yah I forced this spotlight focus to be on me to draw light to my scum reads since people this game

Garmr is looking scummier the more pressure is put on him.

If garmr is scum Bbt has defended him hard.

You know I'm town so this comment about BBT is pretty much throw away. Also what pressure? as BV said I was almost being universally town read before. I called out not giving unsubstantiated town read on one of my top scum reads and I got kneejerk reactions from people who don't want the game state to progress in a positive way.

You think so?

I'll go either way honestly because I highly doubt garmr and nos are the same alignment.

If I am wrong about nos this quote here is you lining up mislynchs. Also the fact townies wouldn't be so certain that people are opposing alignments. This is the proper town mentality when it comes to dealing with things like this.

In my experience it's rarer for scum to protect a team mate than a townie. If one were to flip scum I would be more inclined to feel the other is town. On the other hand a town flip says nothing about the others alignment.

Scum will use your way as a excuse to line up a lynch.

All you done is throw shade at me after my case on you and haven't tried to defend yourself in anyway, hell you haven't made a actual case as to why you think I'm scum. Seems like you're the one flailing here.

[Garmr]

Post more after I get a haircut.

[Tchill13]

Why are you the leading wagon if you're universally town read?