Hi. This is typical for me as town...less so as scum (although as I previously pointed out, it is in Large Themes - of which I have always been scum)In post 1549, Shoshin wrote:1) His posting on D1 is really shitty. He kinda lurks and complains about how he can't get reads and how his role is negative utility. Nothing town in his posting and he admits it when pushed for this very reason.
As previously stated, votes on D1 meant shit. I said that right before voting. How was a pushing anything?In post 1549, Shoshin wrote:2) He votes Taly after it's already pretty obvious that Taly's town and that Taly is sort of leading the town. There's a pretty clear scum agenda to the push on Taly - stop Taly from unifying the town - but why push Taly if he's town? It's just a very bizarre push, one that I can't make sense of. And he keeps pushing Taly throughout the game (see below).
Don't think you would understand this, but I know Punreader from prior games, and I know what they were trying to do with their case on me. I am a bit less certain now, but I was willing D1 to go down with them based on that. I honestly don't care about self-preservation, especially now. As usual, your "almost always" comments are wrong.In post 1549, Shoshin wrote:3) His degree of certainty that Pun was scum on D1 simply didn't square with the game. Like, PP kept saying that he had no problems dying or getting ranked 0 as long as we killed Pun too because that's how certain he was that Pun was scum. It's absurd because no townie would have been that confident about Pun. As a secondary matter, PP's self-destructive appeal is the sort of thing that almost always comes from scum, almost always. Townies just don't do that sort of thing, whereas scum often do it as a way to manipulate townies into thinking the player doesn't care about self-preservation even though that's actually their #1 priority.
As previously mentioned, my rankings were based on how much I liked you D1. Nothing else. I'm not pushing Pun because Pun is not getting lynched today no matter what given night actions. Wow.In post 1549, Shoshin wrote:4) PP's rankings are shit and his entire approach to scumhunting doesn't make any sense from a town perspective. He categorically scumhunts the people who are townreading him in 970 - "I'm not town enough to be read as town so the scum are probably among the people townreading me" - and that just doesn't make any sense from a town perspective. It's actually a very scum-aligned thought process because the scum would KNOW that anyone who townreads them is wrong. Also, what happened to the scumread on Pun? He's dropped any semblance of a push on Pun.
Yeah...because Taly has a playstyle I'm not accustom too...he has been strongly implying that I was scum but never voted. I don't really like that.In post 1549, Shoshin wrote:5) He continues casting subtle shade at Taly by questioning why Taly isn't voting him. Weird question from a town perspective. Townies are usually suspicious of people who vote them, not suspicious of people who don't. The question implies yet again that he thinks people shouldn't be townreading him, which is a thought process that makes more sense from a scum perspective who knows players shouldn't be townreading him.
When did I say you were town? Much less "all game."In post 1549, Shoshin wrote:6) He says I'm town all game until I stopped posting. Then he says I'm scum and votes me. What changed? I became a viable mislynch. The real problem with PP's vote is that he tries to justify it by reference to my town meta in 1352, when actually the only reason to vote me is just that I stopped posting because I was disengaged (not AI for me - I've been prodded in my town games on THIS site, including a game that PP read, yet haven't been prodded yet in this one).
Lot's of buzzwords...not sure how I'm manipulative, it cohere's with my townie mindset, which votes are opportunistic? Scum usually aren't an easy lynch given their partners know they are scum.In post 1549, Shoshin wrote:The entire way PP's playing is very manipulative, it doesn't cohere with a townie's mindset, and his votes are opportunistic, determined by the sway of collective opinion. There's nothing townie anywhere to be found in his posting. Yes, it's an easy lynch, because he's probably scum.
I have voted, I just haven't tunneled. Sorry to disappoint.
You said I was town in 1002. Why'd that change?In post 1577, PenguinPower wrote:When did I say you were town? Much less "all game."
I've literally been having this internal dialogue onIn post 1553, the worst wrote:I need someone to tell me if I'm over WIFOMing myself on PP. But if he's scum what actually is his agenda? it kinda feels like he's becoming a compromise lynch just because his reads are out of sync and he was uncomfortable with the gamestate. I get that this could be town or could be scum pushing some bullshit but I just don't get why scum!PP would be doing this.
can like preferably Taly or Chara weigh in and tell me if I'm going mad?
Ah. We were amidst the guilty discussion and you made a wall post...and I was a bit drunk at the time.In post 1580, Shoshin wrote:You said I was town in 1002. Why'd that change?In post 1577, PenguinPower wrote:When did I say you were town? Much less "all game."
I wanted to see what it elicited, and I do think that those that rated me highly are suspect. Tbf, I don't have strong town reads right now, especially given this is my first game with a lot of you.In post 1582, Taly wrote:PP, why did you say/think thatMe/Chara/Twwere town? What ARE your townreads atm?
I understand why you'd be concerned about this but you also need to understand where I'm coming from. Even the best townies get mislynched sometimes; being townread isn't always as simple as doing pro-town things, sometimes it's a matter of presenting your thought process in a way that allows others to understand how it comes from a town perspective.In post 1568, ManWithNoName wrote:Why are you so concerned with appearing town rather than just playing to a town wincon in order to just help town win?
Super Pro Tip, do town things, and town reads will follow, this much concern about being townread by people troubles me. It troubles me quite a bit.
I don't remember anything she's done today. My thoughts on D1 were initially townie - she made some points about town PP that made sense to me, and I liked something else about her that I can't remember now - but when I reread to finalize my rankings I started to doubt whether she was town. I felt pretty strongly that PP was scum so I didn't like her defense anymore, and the rest of her posting wasn't very good, she wanted to end the day without much interest in scumhunting.In post 1581, Taly wrote:Shoshin, what do you think of Nahdia?
I don't know what you mean by either of these statements/quesitons. Can you clarify?In post 1581, Taly wrote:Also, I've never really seen a scum-case that is strongly in the idea of someone else being town.
Shoshin, what do you think of TBG in referencing D1, where he kept saying that Me/PP was TvS and didn't give clarity on who?
That wall post said the exact same thing that my case said.In post 1583, PenguinPower wrote:Ah. We were amidst the guilty discussion and you made a wall post...and I was a bit drunk at the time.In post 1580, Shoshin wrote:You said I was town in 1002. Why'd that change?In post 1577, PenguinPower wrote:When did I say you were town? Much less "all game."
You haven't come close to continuing that since.
Mostly that his voting doesn't align at all with his rankings, or his ranking with his statements on players, especially given the casualness associated.In post 1585, Taly wrote:Can yuo explain a bit more in depth on the DV "gameplay" scumread?
Don't like that she rated me highly, said she made her stance on me clear D1, and then disappeared. I don't usually care for people who town read me when I shouldn't be.In post 1585, Taly wrote:And where's your thoughts on Nahdia?
What? No. I didn't even read it. I was going off the fact that you actually made one. I don't usually read walls.In post 1589, Shoshin wrote:That wall post said the exact same thing that my case said.In post 1583, PenguinPower wrote:Ah. We were amidst the guilty discussion and you made a wall post...and I was a bit drunk at the time.In post 1580, Shoshin wrote:You said I was town in 1002. Why'd that change?In post 1577, PenguinPower wrote:When did I say you were town? Much less "all game."
You haven't come close to continuing that since.
So, first time you read it, you thought it was town, but now you're reading the same exact analysis and think it's scummy?
Can you link representative games of your town play that show this?In post 1590, PenguinPower wrote:I don't usually care for people who town read me when I shouldn't be.
You can easily find them if you actually care.In post 1592, Shoshin wrote:Can you link representative games of your town play that show this?In post 1590, PenguinPower wrote:I don't usually care for people who town read me when I shouldn't be.
I don't have the time to read every game you've ever been in to find a place where you scumhunt by questioning the people who townread you. If you do it in every game, then I'll look at the first one I find. But I'm assuming you don't do that in every game you're town, so it'd be a lot more helpful if you can find me the specific games where you say you do this.In post 1594, PenguinPower wrote:You can easily find them if you actually care.In post 1592, Shoshin wrote:Can you link representative games of your town play that show this?In post 1590, PenguinPower wrote:I don't usually care for people who town read me when I shouldn't be.