Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Tchill13]

Im amazed nobody has done VCA on the lynch yet. The one thing that we all know for sure is that Invis is town. We have also discussed whether there was one or two scum on the wagon. I think two, alot of you think one. Even if youre right and Im wrong, the one scum was likely in place early -- its a town wagon that stayed as a leader for days and acquired a certain air of inevitability. So lets go to the video tape.

VC lynch -5

Invisibility

(3):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla

VC lynch -4

Invisibility

(4):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla, BlueBloodedToffee

VC lynch -3

Invisibility

(3):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla

VC lynch -1

Invisibility

(4):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla,Tchill13

THE CLAIM HAPPENED HERE, at 733.

VC lynch -5hrs

Invisibility

(4):

Garmr, Performer,

Tchill13, Tommy Egan

VC lynch

Invisibility

(7):

Garmr, Performer,

Tchill13, Tommy Egan, Gustavo, Gosrir Elmer Odels, BlueBloodedToffee

What makes this persistency particularly interesting is that the only person to really push the wagon, at least until the claim, was TChill. Garmr pushed a bit from 500-550 (particularly to Wave and Gus); Performer didnt really push much at all. This difference, as well as their other general play/lurking, is why I scummed Performer and towned Garmr. But nobody was interested in Performer when I pushed them earlier today, and Garmr is a leading wagon. Will someone voting Garmr explain a case -- if there has been one, I missed it.

this is good. it also explains how byron could be scum. if performer or garmr flip scum byron could very well be scum that got off because he didn't want 2, possibly 3, scum on the wagon. this adds a little weight to the garmr finger pointing.

[Tchill13]

i have ignored all the wall post and most of the last 10 pages btw. i'll have to reread.

[Tchill13]

man sitting on town for 500ish post looks odd d1. No sorting. No pressure. No use of a players best weapon (their vote) to figure players out for a majority of d1.

[Tchill13]

of course ppl will say they did that despite not moving their vote but words bear no weight without action.

[Tchill13]

I honestly wouldn't mind a Nos lynch tbh. He feels like a scum slot that's coasting by. He hasn't made any real hard pushes.
His scum reads

{invis, GEO, performer}

are pretty much regurgitated from general Concensus which he added nothing new.

{Tchill, Lefty, Byron, Gus}
{BBT, Performer}
{Invis}
{GEO, teacher}
{wave, garmr, tommy}

Also chuck a few towns reads like byron and gus

So his previous scumreads are in the middle of the list So i'm just going to assume that means wave,tommy and I are null judging from his wording. So nothing really changed. Everything else feels fake a bland here. Nothing in his previous post indicate a thought process that leads up to this. Also would like to mention he positioned himself where he could vote Invis yesterday if needed but didn't touch it. He also barely interacted with the invis wagon and put himself in a position to lynch it if need be.

VOTE: nos

P:edit
damn that's a lot of post in the time I took to write this.

Ok so I did some more rereading, nos has wave & garm as his sr. I asked nos why, he said he just doesn't tr garm, and that's all he said . Well , that's fishy.
Along with garm casing & voting nos, nos voted wave instead.
The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.

Also, I just checked votecounts & if my counts were correct, teacher & nos are at 2 votes apiece for leading wagons. We need 7 for lynch today.
VOTE: nosferatu

Will be able to put in more in-depth notes when I get on a computer after work.

I think by this point , a nos/garm/tommy/gosrir flip would help considerably. If nos/garm flip, it should ascertain alignment of the other. Same goes for tommy/gosrir, after reading tommy's ISO. I saw he wanted nos and teacher lynched, and asked why garm was scum.
I don't see how nos and garm are same sided, and tommy and gosrir don't seem same sided either based on my ISO of tommy.

VOTE: garm

@teacher ah, I see
@bbt I was reading your profile. Also, you are one of the fm players I model my play after
@tommy we have alts in here? Who are they alts of?

VOTE: garmr
Lurkers make me suspicious.

@teacher ah, I see
@bbt I was reading your profile. Also, you are one of the fm players I model my play after
@tommy we have alts in here? Who are they alts of?

VOTE: garmr
Lurkers make me suspicious.

VOTE: Performer/vote]
Oh my god you suck

But on a serious note you seem to give off a buddy buddy vibe with your posts 26/39

VOTE: Performer

So it registers on the vc correctly, if you still use the automated approach.

Stepping in but that's a odd question. The TChill part at least teacher is a scum read.

Tchill is a null read according to the list (judging by the colour code) and tbh I disagree with the reasoning that people are town reading him for but I want him to come in personally and answer my question.

It's like you are asking why aren't you town reading chill which strikes me as a odd thing to say as a townie.

I was looking at order of listed, not color. To me it looks like TChill is his 3rd highest scum read, so I was curious about that. If they're just grouped by color and not in any particular order - then ignore my question.

The colours normally mean reads green-town, black-null and red-scum. I'm not sure if they are ordered but even if they are it wouldn't necessarily means he scums reads him. What do you think he should be higher on the list?

P:edit
VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

invis: The vote on bbt looked opportunistic. Just randomly sheeped byron at that point, later on pg 5 gets on the wagon on teacher.
VOTE: invisibility

Gustavo: "I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice"

FOS: gustavo

This post just screams of suspicion. There's a difference between too fast & too slow.
How can you say this and think We can get something substantial in a fast day of 36 hours?
That's like saying "oh let's quickhammer." If you get lucky, you get a scum flip, if you get unlucky, you get a town pr flip.

Bbt: asked people to follow him in the wagon on lefty - see below for the read on lefty. Said byron was scum. I don't see why. He's null more than anything to me.

Lefty: posting gives me a town tone such as the ones where he asks questions, like the one posed to Nos about the point of his post. I also like his interrogation of bbt on pg 4.

Byron: not sure what to make of his interaction with bbt on pgs 5-6.

Garmr: rvs voted him because he was the last one to the game - hence I suspected him lurking. Shows up, omgus votes me & said I was buddying someone??, later puts up a sharp interrogation post to chill, on pg 4. His questioning and other posts, make me think he's got a sensible head on his shoulders in figuring out the game.

Chill: voted me & mentioned pushing a lurker... what in the? I’ve posted literally just yesterday when the game first began. What’s your definition of lurking?
I like his posting overall, he certainly is proactive like bbt. But other posts like not wanting to lynch specific people, posts like that make me wonder wth? If anything, I'll chalk it up to personal bias, as I have biases too on fm.

Teacher: voted bbt since he didn’t provide reasoning….but it was only pg 3 by that time.

---------------
That's what I got so far.

RED FLAGS.

so performer and garmr only voted each other or they BOTH voted invis d1. Well that seems odd because why would you vote with your only other read that you were compelled to vote d1? Why only vote 2 players d1? Then you sit on that vote with the other guy for most of d1...

IS this why Byron got off after the claim? That way all 3 scum weren't on the wagon d1? Now this is a stretch for sure. It's feasible though.

[Garmr]

The games current flow is nobody gives a damn.

which is toxic.

Lynch garmr

Why do you even bother playing mafia?

To lynch scum

No I mean in general, this can apply to everyone who's voted me with out reason. If you get enjoyment out of demotivating town (which I am) then congra a fucking lations you did. I wanted this game to be the one to proved I changed to be a better player one that wouldn't rage and that I matured. I got denied entry into a few games because of my reputation so this I wanted to use this as a example of me changing.

I rolled a generic town role so I was really happy. I thought it would be fun and less pressure since I have pride in my scum game and I didn't want to risk losing one because of being rusty. Day 1 was hard for me but I attributed to me being rusty and I only got a few reads and that when day 2 passed I could get into my old self. Then when I made the case on nos I got excited because I thought we'd get a lynch on scum. But people were resisting the wagon with out throwing out reasons why they town read him. I could of pretty much coasted on all the town reads I was getting from the nos wagon but I really wanted to lynch scum and get reactions out of people and make sure town had more info to go on. Which is why I made post Post 1071 to get reactions and finally some information out of players who didn't seem to post much. I thought least if it back fired and I got lynched from it town would have more information and my lynch would be the death of scum.

Boy I couldn't predict what would happen next. 5 total votes with out reasoning. I know I probably wouldn't be lynched today but 5 votes with out reasons! I wanted someone at least one person to make a case I don't care if it so good despite misrepping me would lead to my lynch today just give me one fucking case so I don't have to be scared of being mislynched for nothing despite the effort I'm putting in.

[Garmr]

finally a case yes

[Tchill13]

damn it... the first 4 quotes are day 2 posts. They both vote nos together though? then performer votes garmr AGAIN!!!

[Tchill13]

Votecount 1.13 - FINAL

Invisibility

(7): Garmr, Performer, Tchill13, Tommy Egan, Gustavo, Gosrir Elmer Odels, BlueBloodedToffee

Gosrir Elmer Odels

(2): Invisibility, Nosferatu

Performer

(1): wavemode

Gustavo

(1): teacher

ByronVilla

(1): Lefty

Not Voting

(1): ByronVilla

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-06-25 14:45:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends
• Gustavo on V/LA

1 of wave, teacher, lefty is probably scum voting off the lynch.

there's definitely a possibility of a garmr/performer team atm.

I could see 1 of BBT, Tommy, Gus as scum.

i'll have to reset on this game.

[Garmr]

damn it... the first 4 quotes are day 2 posts. They both vote nos together though? then performer votes garmr AGAIN!!!

I'm quite happy to vote performer. I think If nos is town the people jumping between me and nos (aka you and performer) contains atleast 1 scum as both of you have been playing both sides of the fence with little reasoning. Performer and you are likely to be scum no matter how me or nos flips. But if nos flips town (because I will) I would recommend town to guarantee a lynch between you two ignoring everyone else. But if nos flips scum I would want town to watch both you closely.

[Tchill13]

damn it... the first 4 quotes are day 2 posts. They both vote nos together though? then performer votes garmr AGAIN!!!

I'm quite happy to vote performer. I think If nos is town the people jumping between me and nos (aka you and performer) contains atleast 1 scum as both of you have been playing both sides of the fence with little reasoning. Performer and you are likely to be scum no matter how me or nos flips. But if nos flips town (because I will) I would recommend town to guarantee a lynch between you two ignoring everyone else. But if nos flips scum I would want town to watch both you closely.

im working towards lynching performer atm. Thats a fine read form you it makes sense. fyi since im doing a reset i will take responsibility for my actions but i HAVE NOT been staying on top of the game. Even when i post.

[Not_Mafia]

I'll vote Performer if Garmr does

[Tchill13]

I like teacher's d1 play. That's a TR. Seemed like they sorted enough.

if im correct about who gus actually is (i can almost gaurantee that i am, they'd argue it even if i was right) then that slot is town.

[Garmr]

I honestly wouldn't mind a Nos lynch tbh. He feels like a scum slot that's coasting by. He hasn't made any real hard pushes.
His scum reads

{invis, GEO, performer}

are pretty much regurgitated from general Concensus which he added nothing new.

{Tchill, Lefty, Byron, Gus}
{BBT, Performer}
{Invis}
{GEO, teacher}
{wave, garmr, tommy}

Also chuck a few towns reads like byron and gus

So his previous scumreads are in the middle of the list So i'm just going to assume that means wave,tommy and I are null judging from his wording. So nothing really changed. Everything else feels fake a bland here. Nothing in his previous post indicate a thought process that leads up to this. Also would like to mention he positioned himself where he could vote Invis yesterday if needed but didn't touch it. He also barely interacted with the invis wagon and put himself in a position to lynch it if need be.

VOTE: nos

P:edit
damn that's a lot of post in the time I took to write this.

Ok so I did some more rereading, nos has wave & garm as his sr. I asked nos why, he said he just doesn't tr garm, and that's all he said . Well , that's fishy.
Along with garm casing & voting nos, nos voted wave instead.
The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.

Also, I just checked votecounts & if my counts were correct, teacher & nos are at 2 votes apiece for leading wagons. We need 7 for lynch today.
VOTE: nosferatu

Will be able to put in more in-depth notes when I get on a computer after work.

I think by this point , a nos/garm/tommy/gosrir flip would help considerably. If nos/garm flip, it should ascertain alignment of the other. Same goes for tommy/gosrir, after reading tommy's ISO. I saw he wanted nos and teacher lynched, and asked why garm was scum.
I don't see how nos and garm are same sided, and tommy and gosrir don't seem same sided either based on my ISO of tommy.

VOTE: garm

@teacher ah, I see
@bbt I was reading your profile. Also, you are one of the fm players I model my play after
@tommy we have alts in here? Who are they alts of?

VOTE: garmr
Lurkers make me suspicious.

@teacher ah, I see
@bbt I was reading your profile. Also, you are one of the fm players I model my play after
@tommy we have alts in here? Who are they alts of?

VOTE: garmr
Lurkers make me suspicious.

VOTE: Performer/vote]
Oh my god you suck

But on a serious note you seem to give off a buddy buddy vibe with your posts 26/39

VOTE: Performer

So it registers on the vc correctly, if you still use the automated approach.

Stepping in but that's a odd question. The TChill part at least teacher is a scum read.

Tchill is a null read according to the list (judging by the colour code) and tbh I disagree with the reasoning that people are town reading him for but I want him to come in personally and answer my question.

It's like you are asking why aren't you town reading chill which strikes me as a odd thing to say as a townie.

I was looking at order of listed, not color. To me it looks like TChill is his 3rd highest scum read, so I was curious about that. If they're just grouped by color and not in any particular order - then ignore my question.

The colours normally mean reads green-town, black-null and red-scum. I'm not sure if they are ordered but even if they are it wouldn't necessarily means he scums reads him. What do you think he should be higher on the list?

P:edit
VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

invis: The vote on bbt looked opportunistic. Just randomly sheeped byron at that point, later on pg 5 gets on the wagon on teacher.
VOTE: invisibility

Gustavo: "I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice"

FOS: gustavo

This post just screams of suspicion. There's a difference between too fast & too slow.
How can you say this and think We can get something substantial in a fast day of 36 hours?
That's like saying "oh let's quickhammer." If you get lucky, you get a scum flip, if you get unlucky, you get a town pr flip.

Bbt: asked people to follow him in the wagon on lefty - see below for the read on lefty. Said byron was scum. I don't see why. He's null more than anything to me.

Lefty: posting gives me a town tone such as the ones where he asks questions, like the one posed to Nos about the point of his post. I also like his interrogation of bbt on pg 4.

Byron: not sure what to make of his interaction with bbt on pgs 5-6.

Garmr: rvs voted him because he was the last one to the game - hence I suspected him lurking. Shows up, omgus votes me & said I was buddying someone??, later puts up a sharp interrogation post to chill, on pg 4. His questioning and other posts, make me think he's got a sensible head on his shoulders in figuring out the game.

Chill: voted me & mentioned pushing a lurker... what in the? I’ve posted literally just yesterday when the game first began. What’s your definition of lurking?
I like his posting overall, he certainly is proactive like bbt. But other posts like not wanting to lynch specific people, posts like that make me wonder wth? If anything, I'll chalk it up to personal bias, as I have biases too on fm.

Teacher: voted bbt since he didn’t provide reasoning….but it was only pg 3 by that time.

---------------
That's what I got so far.

RED FLAGS.

so performer and garmr only voted each other or they BOTH voted invis d1. Well that seems odd because why would you vote with your only other read that you were compelled to vote d1? Why only vote 2 players d1? Then you sit on that vote with the other guy for most of d1...

IS this why Byron got off after the claim? That way all 3 scum weren't on the wagon d1? Now this is a stretch for sure. It's feasible though.

Yes I as scum would mirror with performer to a tee lol. You obviously don't know how I would play scum but that's ok. Scum should vary their play from their team mates at critical parts. They should also get involved with town groups. But I'm really happy you actually made a case on me.

That being said I would rather have performer lynched before you mislynched me.

[Tchill13]

I'll vote Performer if Garmr does

i'll quack like a duck if you can construct multiple sentences.

[Garmr]

I'll vote Performer if Garmr does

VOTE: performer

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Performer

[Tchill13]

pls dont quote huge post lol. Not quoting that i'd still recognize what you were talking about.

that being said i'd rather lynch performer than you garmr. I'd practically rather lynch anyone than you, even if you're scum, because you're actually playing the game and you would have 2 teammates.

[Not_Mafia]

I'll vote Performer if Garmr does

i'll quack like a duck if you can construct multiple sentences.

“‘What are Mrs. Farrars’s views for you at present Edward?’ said she, when dinner was over, and they had drawn round the fire; ‘are you still to be a great orator in spite of yourself?’

‘No. I hope my mother is now convinced that I have no more talents than inclination for public life.’

‘But how is your fame to be established? for famous you must be to satisfy all of your family; and with no inclination for expense, no affectation for stranger, no proffession, and no assurance, you may find it a difficult matter.’

‘I shall not attempt it. I have no wish to be distinguished; and I have every reason to hope I never shall. Thank Heaven! I cannot be forced into genius and eloquence.’

‘You have no ambition, I well know. Your wishes are all moderate.’

‘As moderate as those of the rest of the world, I believe. I wish, as everybody else, to be perfectly happy; but, like everybody else, it must be in my own way. Greatness will not make me so.’

‘Strange if it would’ cried Marianne. ‘What have wealth or grandeur got to do with happiness?’

‘Grandeur has but little’ said Elinor, ‘but wealth has much to do with it.’

‘Elinor for shame!’ said Marianne; ‘money can only give happiness where there is nothing else to give it. Beyond a competence, it can afford no real satisfaction, as far as mere self is concerned.’

‘Perhaps,’ said Elinor, smiling, ‘we , may come to the same point. Your competence and my wealth are very much alike, I daresay; and without them, as the world goes now, we shall both agree that every kind of external comfort must be wanting. Your ideas are only more noble than mine. Come what is your competence?’

‘About eighteen hundred or two thousand a year; not more than that.’

Elinor laughed. ‘Two thousand a year; One is my wealth! I guessed how it would end.’

‘And yet two thousand a year is a very moderate income,’ said Marianne. ‘A family cannot well be maintained on a smaller. I am sure I am not extravagant in my demands. A proper establishment of servants, a carriage, perhaps two, and hunters, cannot be supported on less.’

Elinor smiled again, to hear her sister describing so accurately their future expenses at Combe Magna [the estate of Willoughby].

‘Hunters!’ repeater Edward; ‘but why must you have hunters? Everybody does not hunt.’

Marianne coloured as she replied, ‘But most people do.’

‘I wish’ said Margaret, striking out a novel thought, ‘that somebody would give us a large fortune apiece!’

‘Oh that they would!’ cried Marianne, her eyes sparkling with animation, and her cheeks glowing with the delight of such imaginary happiness.

‘We are unanimous in that wish I suppose’ said Elinor, ‘in spite of the insufficiency of wealth.’

[Tchill13]

VOTE: performer

reasonably likely this is scum

still reading

Why is it scum?

At which point he decided to leave it and move onto pastures new (despite the read only changing slightly [his words]).

Well I don't want to hold onto childish grudges, and if I kept tunneling on you I wasn't going to get us anywhere was I?

I'm not sure what it is with this post tbhbut it screams scum to me

Can someone explain to me why Performer is better to lynch than Teacher?

Can you explain why teacher is better than performer?

for the record they're not ordered merely color coded

BlueBloodedToffee

ByronVilla

Lefty

Gosrir Elmer Odels

Nosferatu

Garmr
Invisibility
Gustavo
Tchill13

Tommy Egan

Performer

teacher

Why have I got from null to scum without a post?

performer is my top scumread?

I didn't know that

He did. He said he saw that I thought Byron was scum but didn't see why.

Is that a stance to you? That doesn't mean anything. He made no conclusions as to the probable alignments of either of you. "I dunno" is not a stance.

These are so bad, nos can I have a readslist if there isn't one between pages 21 onwards.

Its day 1. That’s exactly the kind of person that’s acceptable to lynch day 1 especially when their content is not town

No, it isn't. We lynch scum, and we lynch scum who actually have content to analyze.

Performer either steps his shit up or he gets replaced. Lynching him D1 is sub-optimal play at the very least.

Agree that performer shouldn't be the lynch

The intention is clearly there and now I have kicked up a fuss about it nobody will be leaving is easily/quietly.

I have forced people on the wagon to defend their position on it. They had the chance to get off - and didn't take it. Now they're committed.

yeah ok but there was no reason to do this. People don't get lynched on page 18.

Don't they? Fuck it you're scum to me now.

Thanks all of you, and I also get where youre coming from. TBH, its the part of this site's meta that I like the least, but it could be because I have a much different approach to the game. I have a smart phone and read throughout the day, but I dont get much meaning out of that. To get reads/meaning, I prefer to really ruminate on the posts and the dialog, which I can only do with about five tabs open and switching between ISO views and live thread views on a desktop. Maybe Im over-efforting it and that's why my reads suck, I dont know.

I do know that someone way earlier today said they didnt like Performer's 211 and that is something I would like to understand better, just to see the different techniques of reading it. I also recall that Gus asked me questions about withholding information that I will be responding too. But far far more than that has taken place, without being absorbed through the mini-screen.

There are games with lesser prods and post restrictions on this site too if that suits you more. See the geriatric russet.

I also need to reread and process all the posts from this afternoon but I’m at work now so it’ll take a bit.

Off the top Tommy is beginning to concern me, as is Wavemode. Need to reread GEO cause I have no clue what they’re talking about. Byron is maybe a bit less of a TR pending my reread.

BBT/TChill never get lynched so long as I’m alive.

I was beginning to concern you about 10 pages before this too. At least be consistent and advance me to a scumread

wagons stalled because scum don't want to lynch either.

Yeah that's totally the only reason

now is this some sort of a shotgun questioning to SEEM like tommy is sorting or is it actually a towny scum hunting?

[Tchill13]

@NM

quoting and constructing are probably 2 different things. I do know you're not an idiot. I've seen you have good reads. Your style helps scum more than it does town. Makes the game easy to play as scum.

so im gonna accuse you of holding (your explanations) back as town to make the game easier for you as scum. Because ik you're not an idiot. Thats a post game discussion though.

[Not_Mafia]

It won't be a discussion when I don't respond

[Tchill13]

Like I tr lefty, Gus and garmr, I lean town on BBT

Performer and Teacher i aint sure on and don't see there lynches providing much in terms of information just yet so will try sort them more d2. Which of these players exactly do you object to not being in my lynch pool?

this is a food read list at that point in the game. Tommy had also already pointed out that nos was active lurking, which I agree with, and that it's alarming ppl were TR'ing Nos. These are good signs from Tommy.

[Garmr]

response to 1219


I think the latter I feel like tommy is town. He gives me a good feeling so I don't want to see him lynched.

[Tchill13]

It won't be a discussion when I don't respond

kinda like how its not a game when you avoid 50 percent of the game (solving and persuading), refuse to interact with others unless it's only out of spite, use meta as a license to play the game incorrectly, yadda yadda yadda.