Open 730: Donner Party [Terminado]

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: MM

[BlackStar]

I really don't like the vibe I'm getting from Marsh. He seems way too frantic and desperate for town validation

So because I'm not as lethargic as you, I'm scummy? I'm always top poster on my forum, every game (unless I die early of course, but even there lol). And "desperate for town validation"? Elaborate on that please.

If you want a link to a game on my forum, http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthrea ... ht=spirits. My newbie game: viewtopic.php?t=76171&start=875.

Does anyone know BlackStar's meta, or have a link to a game he was in to give me?

@BlackStar I want reaction to #140, please. Going to bed now, good morning people

Im not lethargic. And you're scummy because you're freaking out and flopping around all over the place hoping that people will stop being suspicious with you. You're moving your vote in order to have it line up with the general consensus and you're extremely defensive. I didn't even ask about your meta or past games and you offered it up because you're so desperate for people to stop scum reading you lol

[LuckyOtter]

Leaning town: BlackStar, ejjinami, manatee, AP, CJ
Null: Mathdino, Sando, NotMafia
Leaning scum: MM>UnrealSeal>Shizune

MM's early posts feel a little too try-hard. He could be just trying to get the game going, but is a little shady about it on more than one occasion. I'm thinking about posts 37, 78, and 83 here. It looks like he's trying to cast suspicion and feel out the crowd to see if these are viable wagons rather than take the initiative to start one himself. The vote-hopping itself doesn't bother me, but in conjunction with these other posts it looks a little off. Also, of all the defenses I've gotten, his feels the most like buddying (particularly in the tone of his vote against CJ, felt like an overracted sheeping of Manatee's CJ vote).

Seal is obviously an alt and should understand the value of changing strategies, so why he would lend any credence to CJ's attack on me as town is beyond me. His interpretation of my initial vote against MM also seems disingenuous. I have a hard time believing that as town, he actually thinks that I was trying to jump on a wagon and ride it to a lynch. I understand why he gives NM the benefit of the doubt, but that he doesn't ask me about my vote and immediately paints it as scummy is what I find suspicious. CJ at least asked me to explain it.

Neither Shizune nor Mathdino has done anything useful yet. Gut says Shizune is more likely scum. No RVS vote + pointless question as only contribution feels icky regardless of join date.

VOTE: MM

MM!scum = AP!town and CJ!town imo.

[Korina]

Votecount 1.4

Marshmallow Marshall(

L-2

)

~ BlackStar(8), Mathdino(1), ejjinami, Not_Mafia, LuckyOtter

ceejayvinoya(3)

~ ManateeDude(14), AP(13), Marshmallow Marshall(37)

LuckyOtter(2)

~ UnrealSeal(6), ceejayvinoya(11)

Not_Mafia(1)

~ Sando(9)


Not Voting (1): shizune(1)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-10 19:45:00)

MOD REMINDERS

Weekend prod timer is in effect, and will end in: (expired on 2018-07-02 00:00:00).

Votecounter derped on me, tell me if these votes are wrong. They should be accurate to my knowledge.

Ejjinami is on V/LA until July 7th, 2018

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Darn I see your point.

VOTE: LuckyOtter

..........what? Wtf is that? VOTE: Ceejayvinova

Elaborate on the vote please.

He literally suddenly switched his vote after letting UnrealSeal make a case against LuckyOtter. It reeks of opportunistic scum vote.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

He was scum and I ended up listening to people instead of my gut.

Gut says AP is a good wagon.

VOTE: AP

Mmmm I dunno, honestly you're probably right D2, but D3 I think I'd be more likely to go crumbhunting. I'm thinking crumbing is better than hypoing in this scenario but I have no experience with hypoing so take that with a grain of salt. I just feel like hypoing might lead to more WIFOM than necessary

Did you just entirely sheep my views lol?

Tbh this felt like shade.

I'm not convinced in your argument against Sando. If you had something stronger, I'd consider it

Why are you asking for something "stronger" when we're not even 90 posts into the game? Which kind of case do you expect? VOTE: Sando

And I don’t like this one. The vote feels really itchy considering he seemed to have some thoughts about Lucky and black.
It felt like he was either trying to buddy me because of my read on sando or was nervous to push his own scumreads.
Regardless of which of it is it, I don’t really like it.

Did you just entirely sheep my views lol?

Nah just looking for a good wagon. Yours is better. VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall

How do you read otter’s vote on you?

Ignore what I said about him trying to confuse town... I think I'm the one who's confused right now lol

This just feels like a bad way to back away from their actions.

VOTE: MM

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthrea ... he-Smith-s

Convinced?

This feels either like an “unnecessary power contest” or a stress/defense reaction.
Like, this is not a strong argument, but this and the previous post really remind me of his previous scum game Iplayed with him.
Defensive posts and being afraid to OMGUS a townread/strong townie were one one of the main reasons why I scumread him there. Tbh the only thing that he’s doing differently in here is that he doesn’t feel like he’s rushing in for all the easy towncreed.

Like, that posts ^ are either scum-indicative, or NAI for him. I remember him saying post game, that most of the stuff I read him for were NAI, but like, tbh I’m not really thrilled to test it out.
I’d like him to comment on the vote btw (in 81).

Lol not shade, but I wondered what had led him to this point of view. I wanted him to elaborate a bit, and he did later.

Reaction testing. Star did not react to my vote AT ALL, and he gathers my highest scumread.

NAI. He simply switched his vote, but it was random and not opportunistic (since I was not being voted). Probably a reaction test.

Power contest? What do you mean by that? This is simply me avoiding a useless debate that would drive the game away because of terminology lol.

As I said, I wanted to see what BlackStar would do with that. He did absolutely nothing, while reacting quite hard to someone else's vote on the same player.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I really don't like the vibe I'm getting from Marsh. He seems way too frantic and desperate for town validation

So because I'm not as lethargic as you, I'm scummy? I'm always top poster on my forum, every game (unless I die early of course, but even there lol). And "desperate for town validation"? Elaborate on that please.

If you want a link to a game on my forum, http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthrea ... ht=spirits. My newbie game: viewtopic.php?t=76171&start=875.

Does anyone know BlackStar's meta, or have a link to a game he was in to give me?

@BlackStar I want reaction to #140, please. Going to bed now, good morning people

Im not lethargic. And you're scummy because you're freaking out and flopping around all over the place hoping that people will stop being suspicious with you. You're moving your vote in order to have it line up with the general consensus and you're extremely defensive. I didn't even ask about your meta or past games and you offered it up because you're so desperate for people to stop scum reading you lol

You're not posting much, and you're refusing to put your vote somewhere (until recently).

I'm not freaking out. I will always flop all around the place

Nope. The general consensus atm doesn't exist lol. I initiated the vote on you. And it seems that you want to deflect it by attacking me? Also, I'm "defensive" if I say I don't want to be lynched... Isn't it normal to be willing to survive? I believe everyone should link their meta tbh, it makes the reading much easier.

I still want YOUR meta by the way. You still didn't give it. This makes me think I was right about you deflecting the suspicions by throwing shade at me.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Leaning town: BlackStar, ejjinami, manatee, AP, CJ
Null: Mathdino, Sando, NotMafia
Leaning scum: MM>UnrealSeal>Shizune

MM's early posts feel a little too try-hard. He could be just trying to get the game going, but is a little shady about it on more than one occasion. I'm thinking about posts 37, 78, and 83 here. It looks like he's trying to cast suspicion and feel out the crowd to see if these are viable wagons rather than take the initiative to start one himself. The vote-hopping itself doesn't bother me, but in conjunction with these other posts it looks a little off. Also, of all the defenses I've gotten, his feels the most like buddying (particularly in the tone of his vote against CJ, felt like an overracted sheeping of Manatee's CJ vote).

Seal is obviously an alt and should understand the value of changing strategies, so why he would lend any credence to CJ's attack on me as town is beyond me. His interpretation of my initial vote against MM also seems disingenuous. I have a hard time believing that as town, he actually thinks that I was trying to jump on a wagon and ride it to a lynch. I understand why he gives NM the benefit of the doubt, but that he doesn't ask me about my vote and immediately paints it as scummy is what I find suspicious. CJ at least asked me to explain it.

Neither Shizune nor Mathdino has done anything useful yet. Gut says Shizune is more likely scum. No RVS vote + pointless question as only contribution feels icky regardless of join date.

VOTE: MM

MM!scum = AP!town and CJ!town imo.

Why do you townread BlackStar? And Manatee?

[BlackStar]

Are you even reading the game? Because literally everything you've said about me in your last few posts is wrong.

[BlackStar]

You voted for AP and then I said you were misrep ping him. There was never a point before that where I had a "strong reaction" to someone else voting him. Also, I didn't just vote for you. My vote has been on you since RVS and hasn't moved. You didn't ask me for my meta, you asked everyone in the game if they know my meta and if they could proved links to my past games. If you want to see them then just go on my profile and look at them.

[BlackStar]

Also you never voted for me so what do you mean you initiated this by voting for me? Lol

[ManateeDude]

I really don't like the vibe I'm getting from Marsh. He seems way too frantic and desperate for town validation

So because I'm not as lethargic as you, I'm scummy? I'm always top poster on my forum, every game (unless I die early of course, but even there lol). And "desperate for town validation"? Elaborate on that please.

If you want a link to a game on my forum, http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthrea ... ht=spirits. My newbie game: viewtopic.php?t=76171&start=875.

Does anyone know BlackStar's meta, or have a link to a game he was in to give me?

@BlackStar I want reaction to #140, please. Going to bed now, good morning people

Im not lethargic. And you're scummy because you're freaking out and flopping around all over the place hoping that people will stop being suspicious with you. You're moving your vote in order to have it line up with the general consensus and you're extremely defensive. I didn't even ask about your meta or past games and you offered it up because you're so desperate for people to stop scum reading you lol

You're not posting much, and you're refusing to put your vote somewhere (until recently).

I'm not freaking out. I will always flop all around the place

Nope. The general consensus atm doesn't exist lol. I initiated the vote on you. And it seems that you want to deflect it by attacking me? Also, I'm "defensive" if I say I don't want to be lynched... Isn't it normal to be willing to survive? I believe everyone should link their meta tbh, it makes the reading much easier.

I still want YOUR meta by the way. You still didn't give it. This makes me think I was right about you deflecting the suspicions by throwing shade at me.

This counterarguement is so scummy wtf.

@UnrealSeal Is Not_Mafias meta that identifiable that you can read him this early in? What tells are towny/scummy for him?

I'd also like to say that ejj is a strong null, I always have an extremely difficult time reading them as either alignment, and all posts so far have been NAI.

I've been stuck on mobile for a while now, I'm not sure when I can get an avi.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also you never voted for me so what do you mean you initiated this by voting for me? Lol

Oh fuck VOTE: blackstar lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You voted for AP and then I said you were misrep ping him. There was never a point before that where I had a "strong reaction" to someone else voting him. Also, I didn't just vote for you. My vote has been on you since RVS and hasn't moved. You didn't ask me for my meta, you asked everyone in the game if they know my meta and if they could proved links to my past games. If you want to see them then just go on my profile and look at them.

I didn't know I could just go to your profile though ;-;

I'll check these games. But for now, actually, UNVOTE: BlackStar VOTE: Ceejayvinoya He still didn't comment.

[BlackStar]

Also you never voted for me so what do you mean you initiated this by voting for me? Lol

Oh fuck VOTE: blackstar lol.

You voted for AP and then I said you were misrep ping him. There was never a point before that where I had a "strong reaction" to someone else voting him. Also, I didn't just vote for you. My vote has been on you since RVS and hasn't moved. You didn't ask me for my meta, you asked everyone in the game if they know my meta and if they could proved links to my past games. If you want to see them then just go on my profile and look at them.

I didn't know I could just go to your profile though ;-;

I'll check these games. But for now, actually, UNVOTE: BlackStar VOTE: Ceejayvinoya He still didn't comment.

Can we lynch this guy already?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also you never voted for me so what do you mean you initiated this by voting for me? Lol

Oh fuck VOTE: blackstar lol.

You voted for AP and then I said you were misrep ping him. There was never a point before that where I had a "strong reaction" to someone else voting him. Also, I didn't just vote for you. My vote has been on you since RVS and hasn't moved. You didn't ask me for my meta, you asked everyone in the game if they know my meta and if they could proved links to my past games. If you want to see them then just go on my profile and look at them.

I didn't know I could just go to your profile though ;-;

I'll check these games. But for now, actually, UNVOTE: BlackStar VOTE: Ceejayvinoya He still didn't comment.

Can we lynch this guy already?

...lol. Okay, let's say I'm scum. What is my strategy?

[AP]

Can we lynch this guy already?

Not yet. I mean, I don't fancy lynching people for being annoying (Disclaimer: MM is

not

even annoying to me, but I'm talking in general). I like lynching people because they make sense -to me- as scum OR if they're confusing enough that lynching them either provides more info or prevents them from going to LyLo. Obviously none of these is the case here, so I would rather get CJV whom I do think is scum.

Now someone asked about the scum motivation about CJV's behaviour, and I say what's the TOWN!motive behind voting someone who did the same thing you did, only it was about your own talk which you both interpreted in a way that is different to how a 3rd person did.

Let me try and phrase it another way: Person A says they like amphibians such as crocodiles. Person B says amphibians' skin being used to produce bags, shoes, belts and what not in inhumane. Person C points out amphibians' skin is not used for that and accuses B of being ignorant. Person A then reiterates that

crocodile skin

is indeed used for such production. Person C points out B said "amphibians" and crocodiles aren't amphibians. Now obviously B was mislead by A's statement (who was also under the impression his initial statement was correct still). C restates his point that crocodiles aren't amphibians, and A goes "Oh! Got ya! I agree B is actually at fault".

Now, how does

ignorant

A fault B for following A's doubly-confessed-to-be intended meaning? If it slipped my mind that crocodiles are actually reptiles not amphibians then I cannot point a finger at the other guys who thought the same when we

both

have been pointed out to be at wrong. I mean, we're both wrong.. we both made the same mistake, and it was I who started it even, so if he's ignorant I must be as much ignorant if not even more.

Sounds too complicated? Here's a much simpler example: There's a claimed but not yet mod-confirmed IC. I vote them and push them claiming I don't believe their claim. Someone else does the same. The mod comes in to confirm they are indeed an IC. I switch my vote to the other person because "they wanted to lynch the IC". How does that work?

So, what I think is CJV voting Lucky there is a projection of his own alignment. In his mind it is "I'm scum so he must be too". Let's not forget this is multi-ball, so if CJV is the SK he thinks Lucky is Mafia and vise versa.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Can we lynch this guy already?

Not yet. I mean, I don't fancy lynching people for being annoying (Disclaimer: MM is

not

even annoying to me, but I'm talking in general). I like lynching people because they make sense -to me- as scum OR if they're confusing enough that lynching them either provides more info or prevents them from going to LyLo. Obviously none of these is the case here, so I would rather get CJV whom I do think is scum.

Now someone asked about the scum motivation about CJV's behaviour, and I say what's the TOWN!motive behind voting someone who did the same thing you did, only it was about your own talk which you both interpreted in a way that is different to how a 3rd person did.

Let me try and phrase it another way: Person A says they like amphibians such as crocodiles. Person B says amphibians' skin being used to produce bags, shoes, belts and what not in inhumane. Person C points out amphibians' skin is not used for that and accuses B of being ignorant. Person A then reiterates that

crocodile skin

is indeed used for such production. Person C points out B said "amphibians" and crocodiles aren't amphibians. Now obviously B was mislead by A's statement (who was also under the impression his initial statement was correct still). C restates his point that crocodiles aren't amphibians, and A goes "Oh! Got ya! I agree B is actually at fault".

Now, how does

ignorant

A fault B for following A's doubly-confessed-to-be intended meaning? If it slipped my mind that crocodiles are actually reptiles not amphibians then I cannot point a finger at the other guys who thought the same when we

both

have been pointed out to be at wrong. I mean, we're both wrong.. we both made the same mistake, and it was I who started it even, so if he's ignorant I must be as much ignorant if not even more.

Sounds too complicated? Here's a much simpler example: There's a claimed but not yet mod-confirmed IC. I vote them and push them claiming I don't believe their claim. Someone else does the same. The mod comes in to confirm they are indeed an IC. I switch my vote to the other person because "they wanted to lynch the IC". How does that work?

So, what I think is CJV voting Lucky there is a projection of his own alignment. In his mind it is "I'm scum so he must be too". Let's not forget this is multi-ball, so if CJV is the SK he thinks Lucky is Mafia and vise versa.

Well, that was already said, explained and all. And it's why I'm waiting on a reaction from ceejay. And it's not coming...

What is your read on BlackStar? What is your read on Manatee, and why do you think he's being townread by some people? I don't get how anything he did was AI.

[AP]

What is your read on BlackStar? What is your read on Manatee, and why do you think he's being townread by some people? I don't get how anything he did was AI.

Nothing conclusive on Blackstar/Manatee, but I fancy the former as town for now. Why someone reads someone as X? I have no idea. Ask them.

Some of my reads are pure gut. Some are meta-based. Some are a mix of both, and some are for specific reasons. I currently am most interested in CJV as his disappearance under pressure is a semi-meta reason for me to further SR him.

[ceejayvinoya]

Spoiler:

Can we lynch this guy already?

Not yet. I mean, I don't fancy lynching people for being annoying (Disclaimer: MM is

not

even annoying to me, but I'm talking in general). I like lynching people because they make sense -to me- as scum OR if they're confusing enough that lynching them either provides more info or prevents them from going to LyLo. Obviously none of these is the case here, so I would rather get CJV whom I do think is scum.

Now someone asked about the scum motivation about CJV's behaviour, and I say what's the TOWN!motive behind voting someone who did the same thing you did, only it was about your own talk which you both interpreted in a way that is different to how a 3rd person did.

Let me try and phrase it another way: Person A says they like amphibians such as crocodiles. Person B says amphibians' skin being used to produce bags, shoes, belts and what not in inhumane. Person C points out amphibians' skin is not used for that and accuses B of being ignorant. Person A then reiterates that

crocodile skin

is indeed used for such production. Person C points out B said "amphibians" and crocodiles aren't amphibians. Now obviously B was mislead by A's statement (who was also under the impression his initial statement was correct still). C restates his point that crocodiles aren't amphibians, and A goes "Oh! Got ya! I agree B is actually at fault".

Now, how does

ignorant

A fault B for following A's doubly-confessed-to-be intended meaning? If it slipped my mind that crocodiles are actually reptiles not amphibians then I cannot point a finger at the other guys who thought the same when we

both

have been pointed out to be at wrong. I mean, we're both wrong.. we both made the same mistake, and it was I who started it even, so if he's ignorant I must be as much ignorant if not even more.

Sounds too complicated? Here's a much simpler example: There's a claimed but not yet mod-confirmed IC. I vote them and push them claiming I don't believe their claim. Someone else does the same. The mod comes in to confirm they are indeed an IC. I switch my vote to the other person because "they wanted to lynch the IC". How does that work?

So, what I think is CJV voting Lucky there is a projection of his own alignment. In his mind it is "I'm scum so he must be too". Let's not forget this is multi-ball, so if CJV is the SK he thinks Lucky is Mafia and vise versa.

Very clever, but I think most people looked at it the wrong way.

I voted LuckyOtter for meta reasons. Everything was fine then.

LuckyOtter then explains why my vote on him was wrong.

Then UnrealSeal comes along. He votes LuckyOtter, but for reasons different for what I put forward, reasons which I feel come from not reading LuckyOtter's explanation on why my vote was wrong.

I voted UnrealSeal and told him I didn't understand his vote, and that LuckyOtter already provided what I had asked of him.

UnrealSeal then tells me he voted LuckyOtter for being deflective in his answer.

Finding his answer satisfactory, I switched back.

Why people had trouble comprehending this, idk.

[ceejayvinoya]

In fact, looking at your examples, they actually don't apply. Idk why MM agrees with you.

Please tell me you just set a trap and you got MM

[AP]

I voted UnrealSeal and told him I didn't understand his vote, and that

LuckyOtter already provided what I had asked of him.

UnrealSeal then tells me he voted LuckyOtter for being deflective in his answer.

Finding his answer satisfactory,

I switched back

.

So, if Lucky "already provided what you had asked of him", why did you "switch back" to him then? Did you agree that Lucky was "being deflective in his answer" to Unreal? And do you think that is reason enough when he had "already provided what

you

had asked of him"?

[AP]

Please tell me you just set a trap and you got MM

So, you think MM is caught scum?? If so, do you think MM & Lucky are of the same alignment?

[ceejayvinoya]

I voted UnrealSeal and told him I didn't understand his vote, and that

LuckyOtter already provided what I had asked of him.

UnrealSeal then tells me he voted LuckyOtter for being deflective in his answer.

Finding his answer satisfactory,

I switched back

.

So, if Lucky "already provided what you had asked of him", why did you "switch back" to him then? Did you agree that Lucky was "being deflective in his answer" to Unreal? And do you think that is reason enough when he had "already provided what

you

had asked of him"?

I switched back because that was where my vite was earlier, and I wasn't really content with Lucky's answer.

It's like I asked a guy to bring me 5 apples and instead he brings me only 4.

I don't think Lucky is being deflective in his answer. I stopped voting Unreal because I understood why he was scumreading Lucky. It's up to the two of them to sort that out.

[ceejayvinoya]

Please tell me you just set a trap and you got MM

So, you think MM is caught scum?? If so, do you think MM & Lucky are of the same alignment?

I think MM is likely scum. As for if they're the same alignment, I dunno.

VOTE: Marshmallow