NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Inferno390]

Elbirn: please don’t. I am totally down for looking at xyzzy tomorrow. But let’s focus on viable wagons two days before deadline? Thanks.

[Elbirn]

It's not flailing it's a tantrum

What is the difference because they both mean "an emotional response to not liking thing"

I'm possibly easily swayed, but I'm having a hard time imagining being scum, being scumread, and being so self righteous and indignant about it that I omgus so hard I use 7 vote tags with various sizes and then rant for a wall about what a meanie bully face somebody is

All while not really at risk of being lynched mind you

When the appropriate response is to go "yeah whatever" and ride out the pressure

[Elbirn]

Elbirn: please don’t. I am totally down for looking at xyzzy tomorrow. But let’s focus on viable wagons two days before deadline? Thanks.

Good Afternoon. My name is Elbirn and I don't want to lynch town and if I think someone is town I will throw a hissy fit until reality warps to fit what I want. And I don't have confidence in either hit or flub or whatever that third wagon is idk cuz where are the vote counts.

There are like 5 people posting right now. Any wagon is viable. Join me.

[Inferno390]

Also, I move that if dramonic’s level of trashy nasty bait play continues, he get replaced out.
I’m sorry, but no one appreciates being treated like dirt when pressing a read. It’s only being done to piss people off so reads can be blown off, and it’s ridiculous.

@Mod

so Pine sees this.

[Elbirn]

@Elbrin, you’re killing me. Can you give us some reads with foundations to work with plz?

Elbirn: please don’t. I am totally down for looking at xyzzy tomorrow. But let’s focus on viable wagons two days before deadline? Thanks.

Why do you LIE

[Inferno390]

Elbirn: please don’t. I am totally down for looking at xyzzy tomorrow. But let’s focus on viable wagons two days before deadline? Thanks.

Good Afternoon. My name is Elbirn and I don't want to lynch town and if I think someone is town I will throw a hissy fit until reality warps to fit what I want. And I don't have confidence in either hit or flub or whatever that third wagon is idk cuz where are the vote counts.

There are like 5 people posting right now. Any wagon is viable. Join me.

Okay
Fair
By my count, we have 4+ on the dram wagon and two tentative on it.
Join US.

P-edit: Okay great
I wanted to hear your voice
I didn’t want you to run off and start a wagon on a player no one is even considering 2 days before deadline
That does not help town at this point
Give us your voice on relavant topics plz

[profii]

@MoI: I think Taly’s problem is not that his slot was being scumread before he replaced in and it hasn’t disappeared, as much as it is dramonic tagged the slot as scum and then has followed up with “I’m gonna ignore everything that Taly does because it’s a scum slot.” Which is incredibly confbias and horrendously bad play.

It’s stuff like post 1068 above that really show this. And it’s really, really stupid. If someone replaces out after being scummy, sure those reads don’t stand. But you don’t go around ignoring the replacements read because their play doesn’t fit your read/you’re confbiased/whatever. You at least give the player a chance to post before you go noosing him.
Because there’s this thing. It’s called being wrong on a read. And it happens. And that fact of life needs to be sucked up and gotten over.

Noting this. It’s almost like Inferno knows Taly will flip town here :-/

[Skygazer]

Ehhhhhhh xyzzy has been lurking a ton but I like their earlier posts enough to not like this flashwagon.

Townreading Taly by this point.

[Taly]

Why am I being written off as someone throwing a tantrum whining about being bullied when I've put up valid reasons for my scumread?

Anyone perpetuating this notion is automatically catching my eye. I'm frustrated, but I'm not getting bent out of shape and going crazy.

I don't care about being scumread. That doesn't bother me at all.

I care about being ignored. I don't care if I'm endangered of bring lynched or not.

I want to see drams reaction when I flip town here. He's so confident I'll flip scum that it doesn't read as overconfident town. He doesn't want to face discussion with me because that'll invalidate his reasons of scumreading me which don't make much sense because they're not based on my play.

I don't want dram replaced out or even warned. This is a game related issue and it's not going beyond that.

[Taly]

Lol if people think I'm bent out of shape... they should see my other games.

MOI, when I get to a computer, I can easily link you at least 5 town games where I am involved with at least one 1v1...

A lot of those games lead me to scum.

A tame town game for me is when I don't get into 1v2s... or only one 1v1.

I'm much more likely to avoid 1v1s as scum, even though I sometimes get into them.

[Inferno390]

@MoI: I think Taly’s problem is not that his slot was being scumread before he replaced in and it hasn’t disappeared, as much as it is dramonic tagged the slot as scum and then has followed up with “I’m gonna ignore everything that Taly does because it’s a scum slot.” Which is incredibly confbias and horrendously bad play.

It’s stuff like post 1068 above that really show this. And it’s really, really stupid. If someone replaces out after being scummy, sure those reads don’t stand. But you don’t go around ignoring the replacements read because their play doesn’t fit your read/you’re confbiased/whatever. You at least give the player a chance to post before you go noosing him.
Because there’s this thing. It’s called being wrong on a read. And it happens. And that fact of life needs to be sucked up and gotten over.

Noting this. It’s almost like Inferno knows Taly will flip town here :-/

This is based off of a previous newbie game where a very similar thing happened: a scummy slot replaced out and our IC pushed the heck out of “it doesn’t matter what the replacement does, the slot is still scum.”
And guess what? The slot was Town.
So while I don’t know what Taly’s gonna flip, I do know that dramonic’s “read” has about zero ground under it.

[xyzzy]

aw frig I started a thing with a bunch of posts to respond to, then I got distracted because I'm very tired. also sorry if any of this is incoherent, it took me several hours to make this post because I haven't slept in a long time. also I did quotes this time because I guess not having to click on things makes people happy which added to the amount of time it took to make the post (honestly, probably doubled the time required) but I did this because I love and care for you all.

ANYWAY

writing an extremely barebones one or two sentences why dram or sky is scum should literally take 1 minute if you feel that strongly on the read
the fact that it's like pulling teeth to get substance or specifics on your strongest reads when you keep speaking to there being a mountain of evidence and people should sheep you doesnt make any sense to me

anytime I have a strong read on someone on the basis of their read on someone else I feel like it's basically an ouroboros and there's no actual original thought on my part but hey! I'm townreading Raskolnikov in part because of posts like this one; thus the serpent consumes his own tail

VOTE: The worst
I think TW defending the fuck out of hitalt and glossing over literally everything there is bad regardless of hitalts alignment. though I have extra concern is TW potentially whiteknighting a hitalt town and duck feeling justified defending as such on the basis of knowing he's town and like dismissing hitalt scum and hitalt wagon out of hand.
I read that game they played and hitalt here really isnt very similar to hitalt there, hitalt there actually went into detail when pressed on his scumreads and made convincing meta+tonal arguments
when I read that game it did blindside me a bit how strong hitalt were there and I did think ok hitalt should get some space in 814, but getting back into this game its even more clear how much nothing hes doing here in comparison and if anything expectation should be higher (though it's tempting strong meta judgment on that 1 game sample size not necessarily reliable either though)

Also I feel like he's kinda complacent here. impression is he's pointing things out but not actually scumhunting

I feel like I should have more opinions on the worst, but this post gives me a nice starting point.

Guys, I'm saying this one more time - do not lynch me D1.
I'm currently being put closer to the situation where you just "ehhh" close to the deadline and someone hammers.

If you REALLY think I've done fuckall, it's an unfair assessment.
If you REALLY think I've been "scummy", you are actually mistaken.
What I haven't done, is that I haven't communicated my points transparently, or "cased" anyone properly.
I haven't been an open book, but why does that make me scum?

It's really very simple - I just can't obv. Town D1 this game.
Although it might be that I can't do any detecting on scum anyway, I simply can't be an obv.town.

I still intend to do more longer posts today, but I'm worried the damage is done already.

tbh I don't know what else to say about the "HitAlt insisting that they're right without offering anything meaningful to say at all beyond just 'can't you see I'm right'" trend but, like, I have to keep pointing out, because why are they still alive. c'mon.

I'll post tomorrow if I don't burnout or withdraw from people

Just by skimming the past few pages, I do not want a

hitalt

lynch at all D1 and I will case a townread on that.

what made you feel that way -- the way HitAlt was acting during those pages, or the way other people were acting?

((also, what is a vanity wagon?))

I know this one because I was told that I should know it as not a newbie but it's a wagon where there is only one person on it.

I think it's a dumb term because it makes no sense

this is the first time I've heard this term but yeah that's just........ the opposite of a wagon

No one really seems to care about my scum reads so I'm just not sharing them until the end of day.

If you want something, I think inferno is scum. But, I doubt an inferno wagon is going to start when I display my reasoning because we all saw how much weight my reads actually have when I spoke about them the last two times, so why distract town with another possible wagon that no one is going to follow for literal days and I only have 3 days.

But, yeah, Inferno scum, dramonic scum, Taly possible scum, the worst isn't looking so hot recently, I'm not sold on Flubber scum, I think the hitalt wagon is not thinking about anything, but again, people have shown a tendency to ignore me, but I'll go for it.

Why does hitalt!scum double down on this position of not doing cases day 1? It would be most beneficial for him to be town read in this case.

When everyone wants to listen to what I'm saying instead of giving me shit about what I'm saying not being enough because there are like 2 posts that don't line up with the general ideas I assert over the course of two weeks of play, then I'll stop having fun as much and start really engaging people, but I don't like wasting my own time.

the tone of this post feels just a little bit off to me. not too off, but just a little.

We're getting close to the deadline...

@Elbirn, who we lynching?

I don't even know, as evidenced by my non-voting. I don't care for either wagon and feel that people have written off several people as town who I cant recall having done fuckall to earn it / give my mothers intuition the heeby-jeebies. But then I don't know if they need scrutiny or if scum and town alike are coalescing around the same reads to blend in. Like...do I angry face at the universally townread or look for the fake thought process of someone justifying their shitty townread

Anyway my contrarian gut reads are chick/ausuka/skygazer but that's based on nothing enjoy

those are some fun contrarian gut reads based on nothing! I

did

enjoy

Strong Scum

flubber
HitAlt

Your two scumreads are the two viable wagons we have today?

This is a damning thing and I still think Skygazer is scum

Woops sorry pine for activity. Been tired.

I'm still willing to lynch in [Gazer, Taly, Dram, Hit, Chick], my preference is [Hit/Gazer/Dram] at this point

Well I guess - people who TR in those, convince me?

And people not in that pool, discuss the reads with me or so?

I don't understand how agreeing with the two strongest opinions is scummy??? like I don't really feel like these two positions are in direct opposition, we don't have the threshold of information where finding both of them scummy is a bad thing

VOTE: Andrius

What do you see here?

Can’t believe I missed this. Caught it ISOing Brass. Town points for this.

@Brass: this was actually a reaction test to see if I could lure out a few people that I was low-key associating with Andrius (which I’m not gonna reveal at this time because of the way the gamestate has turned). The fact that you caught it and called me out on it the way you did is a positive.

do you think you'll reveal the thing you're referring to later on?

Heh, guess I'll wrote then.
Thought it might not be necessary after all, but since A is being pigheaded (or not paying attention to the more subtle things Taly apparently noted), I guess I would feel like gamethrowing if I just rolled over and died.

I'll make the posts I promised today then. (and you will all have to forgive me for walling, because that is the only way I know how)

I don't have much remarkable to say about this post, I'm just pointing it out as another really bad HitAlt post for the folks who still somehow don't like their wagon.

-Is passive aggressively tunneling Taly despite giving no reads on him after davesaz replaces out

It's the same playerslot. I don't care what Taly has to say.

-only provided original reads on davesaz. No other original content from the slot after that exchange

Townread deleted.

There's so many things wrong with this post.

VOTE: dramonic VOTE: dramonic VOTE: dramonic

In what world does town literally dismiss an entire replacement slot and tunnel their scumread based off a predecessor, while ignoring the other slot's posts?

Maybe this vote will encourage you

TO CARE

about

ANY

of

MY

posting

IN THIS GAME

because they

HOLD WEIGHT

.

I'm not moving my vote until you drop this

"you're scum and I want your lynch for reasons that vaguely apply because I don't want to try to read you more"

approach.

I completely disagree with the

Hit

lynch and you seem borderline apathetic about me having any opinion at all, despite it being different from yours.

~~~

Side note, I'm not sure about

TW

read at the moment, but there's more worthy people for me imo.

I think scum-

TW

WKing town-

Hit

is more possible than any reality regarding

Hit

-scum, but I have people I'm borderline tunneling to the ground at the moment.

the wording of "I don't care what Taly has to say" was probably a bit strong, but this is some serious overreaction imo


anyway there's been a few pages since I started this post a few hours ago and there's some stuff I want to respond to there soon but uh. it's been long enough since I last slept that my brain is quite frankly way too fucky to do that right now

[Skygazer]

1086 is a good post. I stand by my statement that a xyzzy flashwagon is a bad idea.

I would prefer a HitAlt/flubber lynch but I'll place a vote on Dram if it prevents a no lynch. Still trying to sort his reaction and HitAlt/flubber are scummier to me but it's a much better lynch than xyzzy or Taly.

[Skygazer]

Elbirn's posts are town af

[Skygazer]

(phoneposting from my parents)

[Taly]

Games where I fought scum AND/OR town in, as town.

These are not all the games I could link, but the most memorable and relevant to me - and I forgot where some town games were. I'm lazy with my wiki. These are Opens, Micros, and Themed games.

2015 Games

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=60902 -

Town won this game

, I caught scum D2, not within the 1v1 but yeah - but I was consistently scumread and tunneled through D2 here. This was my first begun game on MS. 1v1ed twice here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64408 -

One of my stronger town-games I didn't win

. I was consistently at odds with

Titus

, and half of my other spats with the playerlist involved scum. Ultimately, I was mislynched in lylo when

ABR

responded to me a similar way

dram

is right town and

FA

was newer to Mafia here and she had a game-long gut scumread on me. I did completely gamesolve D4, though.

2015 Games Where I'm A Hydra

(Brunneis: Taly+Klingoncelt)

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=63682 -

Town won.

I pegged the SK and was on both scum lynches following it when it seemed like town was going to lose.

The entire playerlist was scumreading and 1v1ing our hydra for most of the game, mostly because of my head.

We were a wagon for most of the game.

Ika

was our only saving grace near the end here.

2018 Games

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=75347 -

Another town loss; but I was correct on my D1, D2, and D3 EoD vote.

This was the game where

profii

was scum and I hammered him, I consistently 1v1ed with him and

Sando

, but he was town. Town lost because I was really the only townplayer after D4 that gamesolved, aside from

Ausuka

who got NKed... Both the SK and final scum kept talking to me into tunneling lurky or inconsistent town. I got a lot of flak in this game because people said I was overreacting a lot. This was also a game where I falsely thought

Brass

was scum and powerlynched his hydra D4.

((Sorry about that!))

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75978 -

The town won this game.

Several awesome players like

Wisdom

kept me from tunneling other townies like

Nos

,

acryon

or

Katsuki

, but I was correct on a few scumreads and contributed to a powerful townbloc.

2018 Games Where I'm A Hydra

(Purple Heart: Taly+Alisae)

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75360 -

This game was scrapped and unfinished, but town pegged the entire team.

I was getting at odds with people around as much as

Alisae

did. I feel like I was a reason we didn't get mislynched since EoD1 and N1 results incriminated our slot terribly.

(Vartsun: Taly+Varsoon)

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=75853&start=475

I don't get how town won this, but things worked near the end of the game. Varsoon

was the more controversial head here, but I 1v1ed

Ausuka

,

Brass

and a few other people. We hit scum though.

But yeah. These aren't my scum games where I don't really want to 1v1 people.

So the whole

"1v1 is what scum wants and thrives on"

argument doesn't apply to me, or really, not everyone.

[profii]

@MoI: I think Taly’s problem is not that his slot was being scumread before he replaced in and it hasn’t disappeared, as much as it is dramonic tagged the slot as scum and then has followed up with “I’m gonna ignore everything that Taly does because it’s a scum slot.” Which is incredibly confbias and horrendously bad play.

It’s stuff like post 1068 above that really show this. And it’s really, really stupid. If someone replaces out after being scummy, sure those reads don’t stand. But you don’t go around ignoring the replacements read because their play doesn’t fit your read/you’re confbiased/whatever. You at least give the player a chance to post before you go noosing him.
Because there’s this thing. It’s called being wrong on a read. And it happens. And that fact of life needs to be sucked up and gotten over.

Noting this. It’s almost like Inferno knows Taly will flip town here :-/

This is based off of a previous newbie game where a very similar thing happened: a scummy slot replaced out and our IC pushed the heck out of “it doesn’t matter what the replacement does, the slot is still scum.”
And guess what? The slot was Town.
So while I don’t know what Taly’s gonna flip, I do know that dramonic’s “read” has about zero ground under it.

Yea but in your iso you are not particularly advocating a Taly town lean that I can pick out easily, which you seem to be implying is going to happen.

But you are strongly pushing Dramonic for, essentially, tunnelling. Whilst that is a bad play, I don’t think it’s always scummy, obviously people will get their reads wrong

That being said, that isn’t what makes Dram scummy, so if he does flip town we’d be catching scum he next day anyway via the associatives so if flubber doesn’t come through I’ll almost certainly be on Dram come nightfall

[Taly]

I'm not saying my 1v1s are always correct, or even helpful to town, even though I try to make them be instead of just WIFOM baskets.

I'm just saying, it's something I do and it's a tactic I use to help my perception of the game.

[dramonic]

Also, I move that if dramonic’s level of trashy nasty bait play continues, he get replaced out.
I’m sorry, but no one appreciates being treated like dirt when pressing a read. It’s only being done to piss people off so reads can be blown off, and it’s ridiculous.

@Mod

so Pine sees this.

My play isn't trashy nasty baity, you're just frustrated because I'm refuting your points.

[dramonic]

Honestly though, you keep calling stupid and an ass and I think the biggest insult I threw was callin you a muffin

[dramonic]

*calling me

[Chickadee]

VOTE: Xyzzy

Flashwagon this. Xyzzy has naught but fluffposting and walls of "I like this post" with no real substance or analysis and actually clicking through their wall of post links only furthers the disappointment.

Scum is lurking through this game and letting us run up lynch baity people for playing poorly but not necessarily scummy. Rally to me boys and girls and xirs, the dark times end now

Ok
VOTE: xyzzy

But Elbirn, thoughts on xyzzy's latest post? It was a good one...at least what of it I skimmed. Gonna be honest, I am getting very sleepy at the moment.

[brassherald]

I'm just going to baa as I VOTE: Xyzzy

[Elbirn]

VOTE: Xyzzy

Flashwagon this. Xyzzy has naught but fluffposting and walls of "I like this post" with no real substance or analysis and actually clicking through their wall of post links only furthers the disappointment.

Scum is lurking through this game and letting us run up lynch baity people for playing poorly but not necessarily scummy. Rally to me boys and girls and xirs, the dark times end now

Ok
VOTE: xyzzy

But Elbirn, thoughts on xyzzy's latest post? It was a good one...at least what of it I skimmed. Gonna be honest, I am getting very sleepy at the moment.

I'm just going to baa as I VOTE: Xyzzy

*jack Nicholson nodding dot gif*

Chick idk it was so long I skipped it, Same with taly going "look at all these games where I fought people" like dude i don't fucking care

I weight 130 pounds and drank a spiked Arnold palmer about an hour ago so you know I'm the leader this town needs

[HitAlt]

Is this the wagon that really goes through then?
VOTE: Zyxxy

(No really, I'll vote there in a heartbeat if it avoids a no lynch and/or my lynch.)