SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[Dunnstral]

Hi, this is a thing.

For my role, I need Fire Assassin to be rated highly today

[Dunnstral]

Uh oh

[Dunnstral]

I need fa higher than vax

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral

and

TwoMillion

haven't even posted yet...

Because I didn't get a pm

[Dunnstral]

105 isn't something scum screenplay says imo it's too dumb a gambit to try but his reaction to it was pretty good imo. I dislike Dan jumping on it
The post itself (Dans) isn't that impressive and easy to fake of a catch up if any

I agree with this, didn't like him pointing to 105

[Dunnstral]

I've only seen a very weak role mechanic claim between Dunn/Espe? Where does Fa/Vax come into this equation?

Because I need FA higher than Vax and Espe needs Vax higher than FA

Not sure what you mean when you say the mechanical claim is "very weak" - you mean in provability or in relation to our alignments?

[Dunnstral]

meant I like Dan and Shoshin for town rn btw

Something about Shoshin is pinging me actually

[Dunnstral]

No it makes sense for him to know we have opposite roles, I didn't read mine close enough

[Dunnstral]

Re-read PP and I don't see anything that jumps out to me as particularly scummy, and I'm not going to re-read all of Taly's posts. I still think it's not TvT though.

I suppose if I'm going to endorse pseudolynches I should vote. VOTE: espe.

So Why espeonage?

[Dunnstral]

Oh yeah I need to read dunn and chara and tell the thread if we're giving them 0s or 10s

I didn't come here for 0's

[Dunnstral]

you can have a 4 though mariar

[Dunnstral]

Probably since we're playing the game

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, I'd like an answer to this:

you can have a 4 though mariar

Why 4? Who's lower?

Nico can have a 1 for being useless, Vax can get a 0 for being my quest and being scummy anyway, other than that I don't know, and don't know if revealing a lot of #'s is even a good idea

[Dunnstral]

Pine is scummy on this page

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, I'd like an answer to this:

you can have a 4 though mariar

Why 4? Who's lower?

Nico can have a 1 for being useless, Vax can get a 0 for being my quest and being scummy anyway, other than that I don't know, and don't know if revealing a lot of #'s is even a good idea

Why is Maria a 4?

Because she's kind of scummy but not a 0 to me.

Want more? 4 is actually associated with death in japanese, because they sound similar. In this way, by giving MariaR a 4, I could have been implying that death is coming for her

[Dunnstral]

How about we just let them shoot pp? I'll rank them medium and pp bottom

[Dunnstral]

It's worth it to keep them medium ranked because if they die that still tells us something


can we agree to vote him around 5 or so and pp lower than that?

[Dunnstral]

End day

[Dunnstral]

10: Dunnstral
10: Fire Assassin
10: Chara
9: Taly
8: Espeonage
7: Punreader
6: MariaR
6: Srceenplay
5: Nahdia
5: the worst
4: Pine
4: Deasvail
3: Shoshin
2: TehBrawlGuy
1: PenguinPower
0: NicoRobin
0: Lovebird
0: Vaxkiller

Reminder that I had a mission involving Fire Assassin/Vaxkiller's rankings

[Dunnstral]

Were where all these people who scumread espeonage yesterday?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Fire Assassin

I think there's some mechanical stuff that points to this

[Dunnstral]

He needs to be > espe

This wasn't true btw if you're talking about my quest

I needed Fire Assassin above Vax, and I was against Espe

[Dunnstral]

Fire

guiltied you, and we want a claim before you're hung

Wait, I never even saw that

[Dunnstral]

Votecount 2.2

Fire Assassin

(4): PenguinPower, Dunnstral, the worst, Taly

Espeonage

(2): DeasVail, Fire Assassin

MariaR

(1): Shoshin

Not Voting

(8): TehBrawlGuy, Punreader, MariaR/Chara, Espeonage, Nahdia, Srceenplay, Vaxkiller

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to achieve a majority.
Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-04 23:06:00)

This is the wagon state when he claims the guilty. Espeonage isn't voting him but it's clear that he will, that's 5/8 to lynch. Fire was going to be the lynch for role related reasons at this point. I think he's fake claiming

[Dunnstral]

It's a role madness game, don't be afraid to lynch bogus claims. I don't believe the straight cop claim

[Dunnstral]

Why is Vax town to you, Maria?

I invested him.

wee woo wee woo

[Dunnstral]

I'm pretty sure vax is just town with maria's investigative combined with setup spec on my role and there being 1 scum in fire/espeonage

[Dunnstral]

Because if he's lying scum, he's asking to die D3.

He was mechanically going to be the lynch today

[Dunnstral]

I missed something

How is

Dunn

conftown?

Doesn't matter, because Fire already would have known that Espe had thought like this because he had said it in thread prior to his cop claim

I want to know what MariaR thinks of this claim

[Dunnstral]

Whoever won the bet got to choose to vig, protect, or vanillaise the other.

Can confirm I have the same role

[Dunnstral]

I believed that there was scum in our four, yes, I thought it was vax day 1, I thoguht it was you day 2

Anyways, if espeonage ends up being scum then I'm pretty much confirmed town because his role includes a vig that can only target me and there's serious setup shenanigans if we were both scum

[Dunnstral]

Nico's rating counted double, keep that in mind for calculations

[Dunnstral]

I believed that there was scum in our four, yes, I thought it was vax day 1, I thoguht it was you day 2

Anyways, if espeonage ends up being scum then I'm pretty much confirmed town because his role includes a vig that can only target me and there's serious setup shenanigans if we were both scum

Huh? Waht 4 r u talking about?

Read the game man

[Dunnstral]

hold on why do you still not think Espe is town?
but you're not voting him?
why are you voting Dunn?

I am sorting my thoughts and this makes the most sense at this moment.

No it doesn't

if I'm scum and you're claiming cop on a town why do I turn on you instead of getting espeonage which then implicates you

[Dunnstral]

Fire, what part of your cop did you mess up with?

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, given your vote, I'm assuming you believe Maria over Fire, why?

For the reasons I gave earlier as to why Fire's claim was scummy

I unvoted him after he changes his claim

The NK didn't happen last night.

I protected Espeonage from night kills

[Dunnstral]

???

I thought he claimed you vanillized him?

I don't think I said that

[Dunnstral]

Yes

[Dunnstral]

I could only target espe and it had to be used night 1

[Dunnstral]

If you're basing your read on me from D1, you need to reassess (unless it's the claim alone).

Why?

[Dunnstral]

(i am not taking him off my scum list regardless of my result)

ok

[Dunnstral]

I feel comfortable with that pool, except DeasVail has felt towny to me today as well

[Dunnstral]

1.) How are you POE'ing anything without a scumflip?

Probably from all the claimed investigative results?

[Dunnstral]

I had a town-case on Shoshin earlier, but I feel like they've more or less "gently pushed" content from people rather than actually making their own or assessing what's present. I could vote there.

I'll eat a sock if Shoshin is town here. They are operating against multiple games of town meta.

How so? You could probably get votes there if you made a case

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Nahdia

[Dunnstral]

This entire game has been relatively low in actual wagons and votes and it's a bit annoying.

It's almost like we couldn't vote day 1 or something

[Dunnstral]

So you won't make a case against your scumread but you're also frustrated that nobody is voting

There's a nice Nahdia wagon forming

[Dunnstral]

I don't make cases outside of LyLo.

Then keep it to yourself and don't whine about no wagons, you can join us now or later or do nothing and ge tlynched tomorrow

[Dunnstral]

So you won't make a case against your scumread but you're also frustrated that nobody is voting

There's a nice Nahdia wagon forming

I never said the 2nd part of that statement

The whole thing is directed at Penguinpower

[Dunnstral]

How does this change fire assassin/espe rankings in relation to each other?

[Dunnstral]

You have my claim, and based on the worst's ranking my role is no better than a VT at this point, so feel free to.

Lynch Shoshin tomorrow though.

Nope, because you still never cased him. You dying doesn't mean I magically follow your reads, they get tossed in the trash with you where you guys belong

[Dunnstral]

I don't understand why so many people suspect deas?

[Dunnstral]

I don't want the Penguin Power wagon

[Dunnstral]

I don't want the Penguin Power wagon

Looking at Shoshin’s posts I can see some of why PP is probably scum.

Can you explain why you don’t want the wagon? Or give me a gist of where your head is at that I can review tomorrow morning?

They feel like dumb angry town

[Dunnstral]

Not survivalistic, not bothering to push shoshin with a case. It's whatever though

[Dunnstral]

Do you two have any suggestions on what I should read?

Read day 2

[Dunnstral]

Furthermore if you believe there can’t be two cops why is this not a 1v1 for both claimed cops?

Because cops are important town roles and we want their night actions?

Even if one of the cops is scum (which I don't think is true), lynching between them wouldn't be a good idea right now at risk of hitting cop

[Dunnstral]

Actually, I've made multiple posts entertaining this idea and questioning Maria/Fire as a pair, and it's driving me a bit crazy. Nobody seems interested too interested in that though...

I don't believe that town has 0 investigative roles so if nobody else says anything I don't think they can be a pair

[Dunnstral]

But then Fire claims and he's scum because there can't be two cops? I thought claims weren't AI... I thought Maria was open to crazy setup stuff... but nah, guess not.

I said this before and I'll say it again. I didn't believe fire was a cop because of his invest result more so then him claiming cop itself.

You thought a guilty on Esp wasn't plausible?

I believed Espe was town over Fire so yes to that from me

[Dunnstral]

And yeah I believe there's no cop claims right now. Neither of them are acting like cops should act. I think they're using too much information and trying to ride the cred.

0% chance we lynch an investigative claim today

[Dunnstral]

I'm not excited about penguin wagon

[Dunnstral]

Just vote penguin, its going to be the only one that has the possibility of going thru

Guess we're nolynching then

[Dunnstral]

if you don't want to play you can replace out, I otherwise don't care to hear excuses for being lost/useless/scummy/unmotivated or whatever it is you're saying there, just FYI

[Dunnstral]

You're next after PP actually and I'll make sure that happens

[Dunnstral]

punreader, you should just shoot me so that town can lynch a scum tomorrow rather than wasting time on me.

Scummy if vig gets blocked

[Dunnstral]

Don't worry, scum won't be killing you

[Dunnstral]

Also, we're at 0 down right now

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Commander Shepard

There's good reason for this vote

[Dunnstral]

So mafia just let a cop claim run free with their actions?

I'm starting to doubt your claim Fire, also that was a bad check

[Dunnstral]

(The source of Taly's death is, presumably, having been the N1 nightkill and pun simply shooting TehBrawlGuy tonight.)

Do we know who Taly delayed?

Commander Shepherd had a method of communicating with me, and asked me to shoot him.

ok but your vig shot got wasted

[Dunnstral]

Why is Commander Shepard town after telling you to vig them and then nothing happening?

[Dunnstral]

Just caved and checked my own decision, I used pun and Dunn. Probably because they rhymed.

This is true - I don't think you picked good targets, though. Did you think one of me/pun lied about what we rated each other?

[Dunnstral]

What's up with you, Vax?

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

Manwithnoname has a role I'd expect town to have at least one of

[Dunnstral]

Maybe Pun was roleblocked.

[Dunnstral]

MariaR, do you know if you were roleblocked?

[Dunnstral]

WAht in the fuck

Comander shepard claims fucking now

Or he dies

Where is this coming from?

[Dunnstral]

Active: Keeping Track -- You are in a neighborhood with TwoInAMillion. You know that TwoInAMillion is "Bins". You may speak during the night. Once per Night Phase, you may name a target in the neighborhood. You will learn who your target visited that night. You must both agree on the target. If one of you dies, you will lose this power.

Took a closer look at this - There's no TwoInAMillion or Bins in this game? What is this role talking about

[Dunnstral]

Nevermind, I see it now, it was Pine

[Dunnstral]

Why wouldn't protective be on the cop claim?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Commander Shepard

Fakeclaimed a role for their bulletproof but got caught out when a second vig claimed

Would have been the lynch today without the claim

[Dunnstral]

This is also going to flip scum.

Commander then punreader then espeonage

i thought you wanted Punreader first in case he shoots?

we're at 12 alive, we want an extra kill right now

[Dunnstral]

punreader, you should just shoot me so that town can lynch a scum tomorrow rather than wasting time on me.

You know, this is actually the shot I had submitted until four hours prior to deadline, but to explain why I didn't, you have to first understand:
Commander Shepherd had a method of communicating with me, and

asked

me to shoot him. I wasn't particularly fond of the idea, but I obliged all the same. So, neither kill was mine. (The source of Taly's death is, presumably, having been the N1 nightkill and pun simply shooting TehBrawlGuy tonight.)

I'm fairly confident in three pun being Fire Assassin, Shoshin, and ManWithNoName (outside chance of the worst) at this point, but I still maintain Fire Assassin should not be lynched today. (In spite of his investigation choice being one which is 98% likely a pun investigation as Dunnstral was already nigh-conftown.) Given this,
VOTE: Shoshin.

@Dunn what do you make of this post here?

First half I believe happened as described

Reads part I think ManWithNoName is town because I thought about his role and i'd expect town to have at least 1 way of checking peoples rankings to try to catch lying scum and his role fits that

I do think Fire Assassin is bad/good c hance of scum, I can see the argument for keeping them alive 1 more night too. Shoshin is suspect from a process of elimination standpoint

I think you need to be looking at simple solutions to this mechanical weirdness, mafia fakeclaiming vig and then another mafia member fake claiming a cop inno on the fake claimed vig isn't likely, Espeonage is probably town regardless of what Fire is, etc

[Dunnstral]

The simple answer to that question is Vax is lying.

No it isn't, because he has an inno on him. I don't like jumping straight to godfathers

I don't think there are two protectives that targeted you - that doesn't make any sense to me both mechanics wise (I don't think there are two protectives) and reads wise (Fire claimed cop so why are protectives on you)

[Dunnstral]

Lightning rod with strong willed kill. It was in a mini theme game I was in.

So lightning rod everything to me since I am a loud and vocal person.

Can anyone disprove this idea?

It's a wild theory based on nothing, and would make more sense with everything going to the dead town today

[Dunnstral]

Lightning rod with strong willed kill. It was in a mini theme game I was in.

So lightning rod everything to me since I am a loud and vocal person.

Can anyone disprove this idea?

It's a wild theory based on nothing, and would make more sense with everything going to the dead town today

With everything going to the dead town today? You mean me? Like I am trying to figure out if this is a slip or what you mean. Can you please restate that?

To the guy who died today that wasn't taly, maf's nightkill

[Dunnstral]

Vax, what's your role? Full claim?

We don't need him to full claim today

[Dunnstral]

Is there a role that would allow Shepard to live when shot twice?

commuter
hider
full mafia bulletproof

[Dunnstral]

be back in a bit playing dota.

There were 2 kills right? So how do you exaplin lighting rod again?

Taly has a special role and was shot night 1, the kill was delayed

[Dunnstral]

and i don't think this is how he would respond to that if scum.

What does that mean? Like what did he do

[Dunnstral]

I still think FA is the wrong play today, we can go after him later

[Dunnstral]

I still think FA is the wrong play today, we can go after him later

Who is the right play then, and if it's Commander Shepard or Shoshin can you also explain why without using the term lighting rod?

The right play is someone I'm not tring to some degree who isn't a cop claim

UNVOTE: CommanderShepard since punreader convinced me

[Dunnstral]

No one has been able to tell me y fire it scum.

I mean, pretty sure it's been said with giant walls and everything, so don't give us this

[Dunnstral]

Whoever won the bet got to choose to vig, protect, or vanillaise the other.

Can confirm I have the same role

I don't see how this role is worth screwing with rankings. From either of these players.

Our roles cancel out ranking wise

[Dunnstral]

Can you explain your role, Dunn?

I believe I've already explained it

[Dunnstral]

Can you explain your role, Dunn?

I believe I've already explained it

Then clarify. Your role PM says that you can vig, protect, or vanillaise Espe if Fire is ranked higher than Vax? Were you told whether Fire was ranked higher than Vax?

Yes I was told Fire was ranked higher than Vax

I also knew the flavor of all 3 of them

[Dunnstral]

Okay.

What's the point of vanillaising Espe if he's already vanilla after the rankings?

I didn't vanillaise him

[Dunnstral]

Hard to keep up at work:

@Dunnstral assume that you’re truth telling

Assume Punreader is truth telling
Assume Vaxkiller is truth telling

This means three vigs right?

So potentially on night one then we could have had what four deaths? Vax (if lying about novice) Punreader you and the scum kill

...I think that is a little much :/ It doesn’t make sense

It does seem like too much

Remember I could only target espeonage with it

[Dunnstral]

Not lynching Maria, if we were lynching cops we'd be lynching fire but I don't want a cop today

[Dunnstral]

Okay.

Now we know that punreader is a proven vig/SK/killer
You are never going to say you are scum
When I was starting to be townread Vax then claims vig on me.

Why did you not counterclaim Vax or pressure Vax? You and I both have very strong evidence that Vax is likely lying.
Me because I am alive
And you because of you claimed role

I'm not a vig role, really, though I do optionally contribute a broadcasted kill (it can be protected from, he knows the day before), and my role was already claimed in thread when vax claimed his stuff so there's no reason I had to be the one to say something

[Dunnstral]

Okay.

What's the point of vanillaising Espe if he's already vanilla after the rankings?

I didn't vanillaise him

What's the point of even being able to?

I don't know

[Dunnstral]

Maria, do you think cross checking with Fire is a bad idea?

[Dunnstral]

We need to lynch Commander shepard

[Dunnstral]

vax is cop checked
espe is cop checked
I'm cop checked

None of these are viable by mechanics right now - we wait a day and then we sort out the cops. This is why I want to lynch CommanderShepard

[Dunnstral]

Who's guacamole?

[Dunnstral]

nvm

Guacamole do you understand all the mechanical role stuff right now

[Dunnstral]

Hi we're in day?

Games aren't typically open during night on this site, it is day

[Dunnstral]

MariaR claimed an inno on Vaxkiller

[Dunnstral]

(+ATK -SPD) Target someone to be informed of whether or not they are mafia, and do nothing the next Night Phase.

Reminder that this was used to Vax to clear him, stop asking him to full claim

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Commander Shepard

Punreader was roleblocked probably

CS is just scum

[Dunnstral]

Vax isn't happening

[Dunnstral]

This is fear-mongering

[Dunnstral]

Given these rankings and the results of my shot, we can deduce I am most likely ranked at #11: below Shoshin, who is below MariaR.

Thus, my shot failed on Commander Shepherd because Nahdia was ranked even higher than Shoshin was.

This is not rocket science.

If you assume I am rank 11, everything makes sense. My shot on Pine went through because he was rank 12, lower than me; my shot on Commander Shepherd failed because he is ranked at around 5 give or take; my shot on Shoshin failed because Shoshin is ranked immediately above me at #10.

So my kills have failed not because of some doctor protection or some roleblock, but simply because I am too lowly ranked to have made them successfully.

This is, in my opinion, not a bad thing, given it means I am bulletproof to...literally everyone except for Fire Assassin, Vaxkiller, and guacamole. (An absolute maximum of two being pun. Most likely, just the one, and almost certainly, being Fire Assassin.)

Ok, how about killing fire assassin tonight?

I haven't looked at the alive numbers/etc, vax can you shoot again?

[Dunnstral]

We have no reason to assume an sk

If you're not voting commander Shepard right now you're delaying

If you're not outing your cop result on the dead person you're really delaying

[Dunnstral]

I prefer me cop checking Maria than lynching her today.
Commander Shepherd is my pref lynch here.

Maria, do you think cross checking with Fire is a bad idea?

[Dunnstral]

Or we can let punreader kill fire since his vig targets are limited

[Dunnstral]

I could vote fire today actually

[Dunnstral]

It's not lylo.

[Dunnstral]

Hottake: Shoshin is SK

sk that isn't killing anybody

Stop the sk paranoi, it's prett ymuch impossible for shoshin to be a sk

[Dunnstral]

Pun isn't sk because his role doesn't function properly as an sk (can't kill people ranke higher than him)

Vax is the only place I'd say is possible for an sk to be, but there's nothing to suggest that so I'm not paranoid for no reason and they're not mafia

Other people can't be sk because then there's too many killing roles

[Dunnstral]

I don't think scum have a vig

Lynch Commander Shepard and stop believing everything that comes out of their mouth

[Dunnstral]

There's like 4 mafia, if you're not voting commander Shepard you'd better have a real good idea of who the scum team is

[Dunnstral]

potentially 5 mafia

[Dunnstral]

How does the double vote thing work, did we ever find that out? Is the person with the pr control the other persons vote, or vice versa?

[Dunnstral]

Hey Dunn, what're your reads?

Espe Town, Punreader Town, Vaxkiller Town, guacamole likely town by role, krazy seems towny too

Maybe I should take another look at DeasVeil

[Dunnstral]

How is Pun still town in your book?

How are they scum?

Let me remind you that I'm in a neighborhood with Commander Shepard and Punreader

[Dunnstral]

I started in it

[Dunnstral]

I think I was already revealed casually at one point but can't find it now

And it doesn't matter anymore

[Dunnstral]

woo