Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Gameover]

[Pine]

Hi checking in I'm a bit V/LA going camping this weekend. Going to spend my data on maintaining urgent stuff

[Pine]

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Skimmed the ruleset and D1 rules, my bad guys. Still camping, home tomorrow.

[Pine]

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It's a stupid suggestion, and maybe LAMIST. At this point we know. If that and the numbers at the top of posts aren't enough, you deserve to be lynched as a burden to Town.

[Pine]

Testing to get away with shit is dumb too. Why spend your social capital on low-value targets?

[Pine]

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Sigh. That was genuinely an accident.

[Pine]

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[Pine]

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[Pine]

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I can be here

[Pine]

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[Pine]

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Mylo any reads at all? Pine?

I'm pretty suspicious of you tbh

[Pine]

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@ KO That's true, I can try to cold meta you later, see if that affects my read

@teacher randomidget is on VLA I think?

pedit: @chick, I'd say false. Saying I'm very careful about posts/page when I'm the only one to make a posts/page mistake is not a "weak" reason, it's false. The only way to townread me off something that isn't true is to know I'm town in the first place. I haven't really been pushing for your lynch, either, I'm just noting alignment-indicative things as I go.

I actually did not catch your mistake when I posted a slight town read on you. What I observed at the time was you watching your counting. Probably because of the mistake you made? I'm gonna go back and look for it.

1

FUCK genuine mistake, I was more concerned with responding

This is part of why I've been light on content. After early errors, I'm focused on not screwing up. Given how distracted I *already* am while managing 200 kids and 60 staff on any given day, plus running down kids for medicine and diabetes checks, I'm worried that getting too involved in the social game will screw ME specifically up. Complete the task, and then I'll be far less paranoid and more capable of looking at who was concentrating on petty nonsense instead of getting the job done. My read of the ruleset is that if we complete all the tasks, we win regardless of scum:town ratio. Finish the task.

*twitch* I double-checked this post like three times.

[Pine]

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Also, as the last couple posts show, Im inclined to go back to spamming, calling on the followers, and using gaps at the handoff and preview edit to involve new people. Anybody disagree?

WRT teacher, this kind of insistence on multitasking is what's going to screw us up. It looks like it's what screwed Chickadee up (who I am otherwise TRing). Finish the task first.

[Pine]

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[Pine]

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[Pine]

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414 is a great post, solidifying ofrhz townread. I was getting town vibes from my back and forth with teacher as well and pitching it as a TvT unprompted at this stage feels real town. Contrast to Pine and WhyMafia, who both tried to stir further shit up on the basis of my back and forth with teacher.

Townies: {Irrelephant, ofrhz, teacher, Feysal, Kokichi}
not really scummy but wouldn't cry if they flipped: {random, Mylo, Enigma}
scummy: {NK15, Pine, WhyMafia, Chickadee}

WhyMafia

- do you remember the last game we played together? I don't see how I'm being any more tryhard in this one than that one.

Pine

- why the TR on Chickadee?

if people aren't feeling the NK15 vote I'm down to vote Chickadee tonight since there's interest there amongst my townreads

Chick's error and response to it seems genuine, like she's honestly pissed at herself.

[Pine]

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Chick's error and response to it seems genuine, like she's honestly pissed at herself.

can you dig deeper into this?

bc I don't see it as being hard to fake at all

Ummmm, not really. There's not much to dig into; it's a straightforward assessment of a straightforward sequence of events. If anything, you're digging too deeply.

Look, I've made two errors so far. I get what it feels like. Chick's response mirrors my own frustration.

[Pine]

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Please stop putting words in my mouth.

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Also, as the last couple posts show, Im inclined to go back to spamming, calling on the followers, and using gaps at the handoff and preview edit to involve new people. Anybody disagree?

WRT teacher, this kind of insistence on multitasking is what's going to screw us up.

It looks like it's what screwed Chickadee up (who I am otherwise TRing)

. Finish the task first.

This is what I actually said. Exaggerating it to act like I pronounced an unassailable lockTown read is super disingenuous. It's early game, I have a light TR for her tone. You are welcome to disagree, but I don't like being taken grossly out of context.

[Pine]

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I wish more players would comment on chickadee's mistake, kokichi oma's interrupting the spamcounting, and teacher's mistake around that time. It's definitely at least a little AI and not a lot else is, so please @everyone comment on that or point me to something more interesting to talk about

it's hard for me to put a ton of stock either way in Chickadee's mistake, but it by no means looks unfakeably genuine to me - having a hard time understanding Pine's townread there, it feels forced. Like to the point where if Chickadee is town then I think Pine may be scum giving a tactical townread for buddying/towncred purposes.

And I agree that Chickadee showing up immediately again after the second mistake also looked unusual. Plus her defense seemed to miss the point of what you were saying - she said she was busy and couldn't be monitoring/counting constantly and this wasn't AI, but your original point was that she was around to jump in again as soon as the count got reset.

Kokichi's interrupting was dangerous but I don't see it as scummy

teacher's mistake I see as likely a real mistake, I've had other posts show up with no p-edit before mine in other games

Bolded.

No, you didn't say "unassailably locktown", those are my words, but you're making my read into something it's not. Sure, Chick's reaction could be faked. I don't think it is.

There is literally nothing more to the statement than that. I know early on in a game you have to grasp at straws and make mountains out of molehills, but I am saying now that I don't appreciate having my simple statements blown out of proportion or context.

[Pine]

282

I'm really not liking GuiltyLion at this point. He's throwing everything he can at the wall to see what sticks, and moving to dismiss or discredit anyone who disagrees with him. I really dislike the bullshit cases and the attempts to stifle dissent. I feel like he's pissy that the case on Chickadee doesn't have more traction, like his plan was to jump on any mistake and push it as hostile action.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Pine]

295

I absolutely gave notice elsewhere that I was on a limited-access camping trip. I can't link to examples due to site rules, but it's easily search-able..

[Pine]

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did you guys get the same loose town vibes from Chickadee that I did from her latest posts? I'm switching to Pine

Your whole case on me revolves around my TR of Chickadee, and now you're getting Town vibes from her? Are you fucking kidding me?

[Pine]

I don’t really grok the strategy of this challenge.

I misunderstood that the “How do you feel about being trapped” question was meant as a will, so I replied:

Hmmm. Assuming you're asking about being trapped in RL, I'd have real concerns for my mental health. I already suffer from claustrophobia, and the notion of being confined or trapped is frankly terrifying. My chest tightened a bit just thinking about it.

[Pine]

GL distorts what I said again. Shocker.

I didn't mention NK15 yesterday because I didn't mention much of anything. The last week or so were rough for my activity site-wide. I also misunderstood the ruleset, and didn't realize it would be a closed, vote-by-PM setup. Then I didn't realize that our votes (and reasons) would become public.

Yeah, there was a bit of a self-serving angle to my NK15 vote. Obviously. I thought I'd have a chance after the challenge was complete to argue against you, and then when I didn't, I didn't think you'd get lynched out of nowhere. So I compromised for the most likely alternative to myself, which I knew was a bad idea. Reviewing the cases made on NK15, I came to a conclusion that I was comfortable voting there, and added my own thoughts.

If you could do us all a favor and not distort, exaggerate, or misrepresent others' opinions, I'd appreciate it. Don't presume to speak for me.

[Pine]

C/Ping your last will can't me privileged mod communication because it isn't information the mod gave you; it's info you gave the mod.

[Pine]

Dude I so do not have time in my life for this. I run a children's summer camp set to serve almost 1500 kids this year, and I barely have time to play this game once. I do NOT have time to relitigate every post or hold your hand through every point.

Examples using just your last post (PE-898): I have never suggested we lynch everyone who is a burden to the Town, it was a single point not a doctrine. Exaggeration and putting words in my mouth. "All you've contributed is snark" is discrediting, as is suggesting that I'm providing no evidence and not reading the game. As for misrepresentation, you have somehow taken my legitimate suspicion of you for your attack on Chickadee and tried to present it as some kind of character assassination.

Let's add a new one: Whataboutism. Instead of engaging my fairly detailed explanations and points in the body paragraphs of 896, you deflected attention away from my riposte and towards a different topic you wanted to press.

Seriously. I am not going to do this every time, especially with someone who has gone out of his way to single me out, particularly when I feel they're very likely scum.

[Pine]

I think you're wrong there

[Pine]

I think you're wrong there

aside from his posts regarding you is there anything you scumread?

His whole demeanor is sketchy, though I'll grant you his behavior regarding me is especially suspicious, and I'll further grant you a bit of implicit bias on my part.

GL's approach to the game has been to be big, loud, and in charge. When others have offered alternative views, he has essentially flooded them out or shouted them down. He's taken care not to be especially contrary, but he's been trying to take control of the majority narrative. There's also the problem that he's far too confident. Town don't have inside information, and are inherently unsure of themselves. Good Town are always second-guessing and checking themselves for confirmation bias. True, there's a lot of bad Town out there, and even decent, experienced players can fall into that trap, but I see none of that. He backed down off of me not because of my behavior, but when general opinion was turning against his attacks on me and when I turned out to be not a lot harder target than he anticipated.

Frankly, pretty much everything GL has done is the classic "scum mayor" approach. High-key activity, squelch dissent while pissing off as few people as possible, and push your own MLs. He attacked two of the three people who fumbled the count on D1, though he oddly defended Kokichi and instead drove the ML on NK15. If GL flips scum like I think, imo Kokichi should get turbolynched D3.

[Pine]

Well that's another problem with the strategy GL is using. Spew as many long posts as you can, with much IIOA as you can, and see what sticks. It's easy to bury missteps in a large ISO, and easy to latch onto what works.

[Pine]

Further, with regards to GL's "throw everything and see what sticks" tactic, he's had nearly everyone at or near the top of his scum list at some point or another. As far as I can tell, the only people he hasn't pushed cases on are Kokichi Oma, Irrelephant, and teacher. Feysal doesn't get a case, but barely gets mentioned at all, then drops from a top TR to middle of the pack with no fanfare whatsoever. If GL and Kokichi both flip red, Feysal is where my next vote goes.

Spoiler: Evidence bolded

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townreads [though at this stage still entirely subject to being revoked swiftly and with little warning]: Irrelephant, Feysal, ofrhz

i would vote you, change my mind:

Enigma, Not Known 15, Chickadee

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414 is a great post, solidifying ofrhz townread. I was getting town vibes from my back and forth with teacher as well and pitching it as a TvT unprompted at this stage feels real town. Contrast to Pine and WhyMafia, who both tried to stir further shit up on the basis of my back and forth with teacher.

Townies: {Irrelephant, ofrhz, teacher, Feysal, Kokichi}
not really scummy but wouldn't cry if they flipped: {random, Mylo, Enigma}
scummy: {NK15,

Pine, WhyMafia

, Chickadee}

WhyMafia

- do you remember the last game we played together? I don't see how I'm being any more tryhard in this one than that one.

Pine

- why the TR on Chickadee?

if people aren't feeling the NK15 vote I'm down to vote Chickadee tonight since there's interest there amongst my townreads

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I'm totally fine with voting any of {NK/Chickadee/Pine/

Mylo

} but would prefer NK/Chickadee as I think they are the most actively scummy whereas Mylo just hasn't really played yet and Pine is always kinda standoffish and scummy. Chickadee's "hey you're a lurker where is your content" question to Mylo looks to me like it could be either SvS or SvT, but either way it looks worse on Chickadee than Mylo. But if you all hard commit to Mylo then I'll vote him instead, most of all I want a decent 4/5 person consensus on a wagon to reduce the odds of someone else randomly getting lynched. If we fail to come up with a plan and we have a smattering of votes across the board, higher odds for town to get flipped and it's easier for scum to be able to explain away tactical votes

VOTE: ofrhz

I'd probably start here.

new and improved reads
{Irrelephant, NSG, Mylo, Kokichi}
{Pine, Feysal, Prof Fridays}
{Enigma,

ofhrz

, Chickadee}

[Pine]

like how you can you accuse me of both:

a) being too confident
b) shuffling my reads around and "throwing everything at the wall"

if I were confident I'd be tunneled on one thing and not bouncing around between reads/suspects

Those things are not contradictory. Confidence is internally-focused, shuffling reads is external. One is how you think, the other is how you present your thoughts. Very different.

[Pine]

and one last point: you are absolutely wrong about me attacking people for fumbling the count and I'm getting sick of this misrep without you acknowledging my response and the fact that you're too stubborn / out of your element to admit that you're just simply wrong about it.

I have literally never attacked anyone on the basis of fumbling the count.

Not Chickadee, not you, not teacher, not Kokichi. If you disagree, quote the post where I did that. Otherwise quit saying it because it's objectively not true.

No, you were very careful not to invoke the fumbles in your attacks, though you repeatedly argued that Kokichi's fumble shouldn't count against him when you defended the ever-loving shit out of him. In fact, the very fact that you didn't mention the fumbles in your attacks is weird and suspicious - it's a valid point, but you seemed afraid to use it against people you allegedly thought were scummy, as if you didn't want to establish precedent in case it got used against you.

What's actually suspicious is the

timing

. Someone fumbled, and you pounced. Chickadee messed up, and you immediately attacked her. I made a mistake, you attacked me. The fumble was implicitly, but carefully not explicitly, the subject of your attacks. Kind of clever, actually. I was all ready to quote it, but you were super careful to have an alibi.

[Pine]

I think you're wrong there

Why

Please refer to 956, 960, 961, 964, and 965. All of which lay out my case on GL, and are on this page.

[Pine]

I think you're wrong there

Why

Please refer to 956, 960, 961, 964, and 965. All of which lay out my case on GL, and are on this page.

Err, last page. The same page you wrote that post on, anyway.

[Pine]

I've never seen the show, but the question was "You must now vote for who you think is a saboteur and why?" Further, the first posts spell out the flavor of Town/scum as unfortunates/saboteurs, so...

I'm not a big fan of strawman attacks.

[Pine]

Yeah I was building on that.

[Pine]

But questioning my alignment due to the phrasing of publicly-available information, as Feysal suggested, would be strawmanning.

[Pine]

Still not liking GL’s penchant for misrepresenting people’s comments.

[Pine]

Prodded. Apologies for my absence, it’s site-wide. Rough week at work, and Pinecone is sick, and Lady Pine may also be developing something. I’ll probably be fine, I have a Constitution score of like 22. Auntie Maple definitely has bronchitis, and is keeping her distance as much as possible in a family business where you work 100+ hours a week in close proximity.

Meaningful content hopefully later today.

[Pine]

Fuck it. Rolled a d3 on my dice app. It’s random luck and I don’t trust anyone as much as I trust myself.

Choose: 3

[Pine]

It just needed to be done. The only ones not in the dark here are scum, and we aren't obligated to elect someone to guess. Why would I trust anyone other than myself when no one has a clue?

[Pine]

VOTE: Pine

Shocker.

[Pine]

There’s no WIFOM there. The odds are super stacked against us - I don’t recall how to do mathematical combinations, but even without the presence of bad actors, our odds of success are <40%. With a bad guess down, our odds are down to 1/9 (I think). I’m not willing to reduce those odds further by letting someone I don’t trust (in this case all of you) sink our chances further. Case in point:

Choose: 1

[Pine]

Yeah fuck you. We've spent a week and a half with essentially no progress, dithering over minutiae. Something needed to give. You know why head counts for ending the day are a bad idea when a game is stuck in the doldrums? Scum don't want it to end until it's favorable to them. You were just TRing me for exactly what you're now giving me shit for, so excuse me if I take your approval, along with that of Friday and Chickadee, as tacit permission to proceed.

I grant you, I wasn't really considering day-end concerns, but rather with accomplishing the objective. With one bad number chosen, scum could end the day at will, and I'd rather be in control than let them. So. Let's talk end-of-day.

I still want Guilty Lion. I think I've made my case pretty strongly on him, and I think there's support for that lynch.

I will be voting for Guilty Lion

. I also think there's a solid case to be made for Kokichi, and a GL scumflip practically mandates that he go next. Given that order of operations, GL first. If there's not support for GL, I could compromise.

I'm currently TRing NSG, Prof Friday, Chickadee, and Feysal. I have no read to speak of on Enigma or ohfrz. I'm waffling on Mylo, and while I have no desire to push for Mylo's lynch, I wouldn't be sad to see it. Irrelephant was solid Town to me, but his reaction to the last page has caught me off-guard. It's probably just indignant Town still, but I can't discard the gut impression that I disrupted carefully-laid plans. I think that's everyone.

Voting GL, could be talked into a coalition against Kokichi.

[Pine]

pine why

I've said why. I'd do it again, though I probably ought to have consulted first. Sorry.

If it comes up good I'll stop.

[Pine]

lol @Pine you don't get to end the day prematurely and then say "fuck you" when I get upset about it
I was townreading you for your push on Guilty and your frustration last game day.

I'm certainly not townreading you for your insistence that "I'm busy so I can refuse to read the thread and do whatever I want and then say "fuck you" if anyone doesn't like it"

That's not pro-town play regardless of your alignment and I don't have time to figure out your alignment but I am as close as I have ever been to encouraging a policy lynch

Except we're at 8-3 so idk I'm trying to provide reads on as many players as possible before day end? I don't curse but you can bet I'm angrier than you

Good luck surviving tonight

The bolded is a gross mischaracterization of what I said. The complete 180 is confusing and suspicious.

[Pine]

The "fuck you" is for whining and acting outraged that a stalled day, in which nothing of consequence was being discussed, is ending. It was short-sighted, but hardly a big loss.

[Pine]

Enigma's waffling and refusal to commit to a position in those posts puts me off. It's the exact kind of middle-of-the-road, inoffensive posting I try to do as scum. Almost as if they're trying to appeal to everyone on divisive issues (my actions, Chickadee) while not pissing anyone off.

Flashwagon on Enigma?

[Pine]

I kinda want to hardcore flashwagon Enigma here. They’re saying not much with a lot of words, and the non-controversial reads are really pinging me

[Pine]

I kind of don’t want to be nominated for it. Yoloing was one thing, but suddenly getting nominated feels like a trap, like I’ll be 2/3 odds screwed, and even picking right could be painted as improbable to frame me. Kind of a damned-if-I-do/damned-if-I-don’t thing.

However, the logic of not trusting anyone other than myself still holds. I’m ready for day end, and will choose a number after everyone checks in following this post. If a 1/3ish quorum insists on prolonging the day farther I’ll holster.

[Pine]

we'll see

I can see why Pine thought you are scum in the 1v1, not least for the incredibly frustrating stubbornness when engaging 1v1 vs you.

we'll see

I'll be sure to leave a nice meme in my will for you to remind how wrong you are.

Wrong tense. I *still* think GL is scum.

[Pine]

Pretty sure NSG is the only one left to check in, and unless I’m forgetting someone Chickadee is the only one who wants the day to keep going. I’ll make the choice in a few hours.

[Pine]

his whole ISO is apparently so townie and jives with your own thought processes as town, and you can't even bother to pick one or two posts in particular that gave you this feeling?

This, incidentally, is classic misrepresentation. Prof Friday is refusing to do the unnecessary thing extra work you’re demanding, and you’re putting words in his mouth.

[Pine]

Mmkay.

I’m not waiting for NSG. She’s been mostly absent and has had time to respond.

Going with 2. It hasn’t shown up yet, and while that is a shit reason for guessing it, there aren’t any good reasons.

Choose: 2

I’m voting Enigma, fyi

PE: My new phone makes unnecessary word-completion guesses all the time. I usually catch them (two in this post alone), but I must have missed that one. Your penchant for latching onto tiny things and making them into conspiracies is weird.

[Pine]

Calling GL (who I still scumread) out for his bullshit and agreeing with you on Enigma are entirely mutually exclusive.

[Pine]

Yeah Enigma is still fucking scum. Everything about their day-open play is low-hanging fruit

[Pine]

Sorry sorry I'm here