Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Shiro]

You didnt question it day 2 despite him bringing it up and Titus being suspicious that he didn't empasize it enough

[Sakura Hana]

Was that really discussed D1?
All i remember of D1 is that i thought Cerb was scum, and that Titus somehow got a strong TR on me, and Muffin started the Numbers wagon. And something about an argument of Tora shading me.

P-Edit: D2? D2 i was faking mason.

[Titus]

The problem is that if Shiro actually has the ability and is town, then scum will shut it off the moment the scumbutt who can do it shows up. Cerb won't have the 48-72 hours to put an infodump together. He has to do it as rapidly as possible.

I read this part 5 times but still confused

[zMuffinMan]

orrrrrrrrrr crazy theory

he thinks proving right now it is meaningless and wants you all to shut the fuck up about it for a while

hmmm

actually, nah, sorry, jig's up shiro

you're caught now

[Frozen Angel]

Devil's proof gambit is this:

You can't prove a devil -in this case cerb- doesn't exist by asking thousand questions. That theory that devil doesn't exist blows away when a devil apears right in the middle of the game.

What are the benefits for claiming devil exists when you can't deny that possibility? to give a false clear - confusion and discord. But in this case it's just too much stupid gambit cause the person who fails to prove the devil existance just got on the blade edge for doing such gambit. I think scum titus is calculated but I'm not sure if they fake this much for so little gain. I doubt scum shiro does this gambit willingly

I would give shiro and cerb a second chance in proving they are in chat.

[Titus]

orrrrrrrrrr crazy theory

he thinks proving right now it is meaningless and wants you all to shut the fuck up about it for a while

hmmm

actually, nah, sorry, jig's up shiro

you're caught now

Ok, why does Scum!Shiro lie here?

[Frozen Angel]

orrrrrrrrrr crazy theory

he thinks proving right now it is meaningless and wants you all to shut the fuck up about it for a while

hmmm

actually, nah, sorry, jig's up shiro

you're caught now

Why do you say it doesn't matter? It's the best lead we have for finding scum who is responsible for ank death

[Frozen Angel]

orrrrrrrrrr crazy theory

he thinks proving right now it is meaningless and wants you all to shut the fuck up about it for a while

hmmm

actually, nah, sorry, jig's up shiro

you're caught now

Ok, why does Scum!Shiro lie here?

Pretty sure it was sarcasm

[Shiro]

Was that really discussed D1?
All i remember of D1 is that i thought Cerb was scum, and that Titus somehow got a strong TR on me, and Muffin started the Numbers wagon. And something about an argument of Tora shading me.

P-Edit: D2? D2 i was faking mason.

You day 1 typo

[Sando]

Like ... if the world we're in has a town!Shiro who is a medium who is really talking to Cerb ... then scum either can or cannot do anything about it. Cerb confirming it doesn't impact that in any way.

And Cerb is way beyond smart enough to know that.

QED: Cerb isn't talking to Shiro.

Or he's talking to Cerb who is pretty sure Shiro is scum. But then Cerb can't have any more info on Shiro than we do?

[Titus]

Devil's proof gambit is this:

You can't prove a devil -in this case cerb- doesn't exist by asking thousand questions. That theory that devil doesn't exist blows away when a devil apears right in the middle of the game.

What are the benefits for claiming devil exists when you can't deny that possibility? to give a false clear - confusion and discord. But in this case it's just too much stupid gambit cause the person who fails to prove the devil existance just got on the blade edge for doing such gambit. I think scum titus is calculated but I'm not sure if they fake this much for so little gain. I doubt scum shiro does this gambit willingly

I would give shiro and cerb a second chance in proving they are in chat.

FA, you're universal town. We want you alive tomorrow and the leader to trust you.

[Drixx]

So, you can ask something only you and Cerb know. Like a comment in a hydra pt. Remove me from the equation.

He has...Cerb is refusing to answer...apparently

Yes. Which then makes Drixx whole I'm coaching Shiro by Cyrano absurd so I decided when he does talk, just remove me from the equation to reduce noise.

Ummm nope. It doesn't work that way.

YOU cannot tell anyone how many times Cerb butt dialed me on Slack recently and which day it happened on. You also cannot tell anyone what I gave him a list of tonight. Only he can answer those, and he would have already. Confirming that Shiro is a medium in contact with him costs nothing and lets us settle that question and move on.

As long as it remains an open question, we're not moving on. There's no way Cerb would refuse to spend nothing in order to avoid us wasting 2-3 days.

He says you should all go back to playing mafia and stop giving unknown alignment! Shiro ways to hide by talking to him.

Not a thing he would say. Answering my questions doesn't confirm your alignment. It only confirms that you have the medium power and lets us know to expect an infodump from him later this day phase.

It

ALSO

builds in a mechanism for him to confirm you relayed his infodump accurately. I ask him 2 more questions only he could possibly answer.


But here we are and Titus is trying to pretend there's no way this could be a gambit (not a good look), and we have a supposed refusal to confirm by a person who simply would have worked out the angles even before I did (especially since the game was open for hours before I checked in) and thus wouldn't see any value in allowing this to remain an unanswered question for days. He would confirm it immediately so we have concrete info.


Knowing for sure that Shiro has medium and Titus took precog narrows the possibility space for how ank ended up dead... especially since power negation being an available thing greatly diminishes the idea that Scum started with a factional strongman.

The more of this puzzle we have, the more we can get done while we wait for his infodump ... if he were actually in communication here. And he knows that. And he knows scum will break his communication off before he ever gets to an infodump in all possible worlds. So it bears repeating:


QED: Cerb isn't talking to Shiro. Cerb would already have passed the answers to my two questions so we could get on with extrapolating from known info.

[Sando]

Ok, why does Scum!Shiro lie here?

Theory: Scum!Shiro isn't lying, is talking to Cerb, who took his opportunity to get us information by being an unreasonable dick to get Shiro lynched.

[Sakura Hana]

Was that really discussed D1?
All i remember of D1 is that i thought Cerb was scum, and that Titus somehow got a strong TR on me, and Muffin started the Numbers wagon. And something about an argument of Tora shading me.

P-Edit: D2? D2 i was faking mason.

You day 1 typo

Day 1 huh, I remember it being talked about I guess, but at that point i was like "it's in the fucking rules that everyone's vanilla this discussion is useless", didn't give it much attention, nor exactly remember what was the spat Cerb and Titus had. I did remember Titus having different reasons than me to suspect Cerb tho.

[Sando]

Ok, why does Scum!Shiro lie here?

Theory: Scum!Shiro isn't lying, is talking to Cerb, who took his opportunity to get us information by being an unreasonable dick to get Shiro lynched.

Also if this is true, holy fuck well played Cerb.

[Titus]

Ok, why does Scum!Shiro lie here?

Theory: Scum!Shiro isn't lying, is talking to Cerb, who took his opportunity to get us information by being an unreasonable dick to get Shiro lynched.

In that setup though, it's more that town!Cerb thinks it is Scum!Shiro rather than it needing to be Scum!Shiro. Theoretically valid but not likely sound. Cerb doesn't frame people like that. He's timid on expressing reads.

[Frozen Angel]

if the theory is true its nothing more than a lie cop check just in a way that shiro can't even answer or react to it

[Sando]

As for being mediumed by anyone else, he says he would never answer such a question, especially if he was suspicious of me.

This makes zero sense, even if you wanted to, you can't lie about it, you'll get CC'd and die. I didn't ask for who else was medium with him, just if they existed.

[Titus]

if the theory is true its nothing more than a lie cop check just in a way that shiro can't even answer or react to it

Which probably means we just move on and scumhunt. Which means VCA in the morning.

[Sakura Hana]

Actually I believe now that Shiro's talking with Cerb.

[Shiro]

@Drixx

Cerb says that maybe he wants everyone to suspect me so he can create associatives like he would do if he was alive by acting scummy/arrogant.

Or maybe he doesn't trust me enough to confirm me so I dont start saying shit he isn't telling me after I confirm the link.

[Drixx]

Like ... if the world we're in has a town!Shiro who is a medium who is really talking to Cerb ... then scum either can or cannot do anything about it. Cerb confirming it doesn't impact that in any way.

And Cerb is way beyond smart enough to know that.

QED: Cerb isn't talking to Shiro.

Or he's talking to Cerb who is pretty sure Shiro is scum. But then Cerb can't have any more info on Shiro than we do?

Even if Cerb believes that Shiro is scum, he STILL answers my questions. That still means Shiro absolutely has medium, stops this pages long debate from going on for days, and adds to the known info we can work from. There's also no downside because: IF Shiro is town and telling the truth then a scum team with the ability to power negate Shiro will do it ASAP to shut down any communication from Cerb to the game. Doing that would also make Shiro look really bad. So if scum CAN shut it down, they will do so the moment the person who can do it shows up.

Cerb would have realized this before I even showed up to the thread.

This means that confirming Shiro as medium by answering my two questions has no negative utility.

It also means we have an elegant test to ensure that Shiro passes along what Cerberus wants to communicate to us. I simply ask another set of questions and the correct answer to said questions means Shiro relayed the info accurately. Wrong answers means not.


Trying to handwave and say "Shiro wouldn't have lied about this as scum" is absolutely meaningless. Shiro has a wide range as scum. Titus is basically universally scumread and this kind of thing is right up her alley.

AND SHE TRIED TO GET ME TO MAKE MY QUESTION ONE SHE CAN ANSWER

. Like ... it's plausible that this is a gambit.

It's very implausible that Cerb refuses to give us concrete info to stop us going round and round about this.

[Sakura Hana]

Shiro just asked me a question that i dont see Shiro asking in a million years, so i believe it.

[Titus]

@Drixx, I don't think I can get any clearer than doing a test that removes me from the equation. Cerb should only be able to talk today anyway soooo

[Drixx]

Ok, why does Scum!Shiro lie here?

Theory: Scum!Shiro isn't lying, is talking to Cerb, who took his opportunity to get us information by being an unreasonable dick to get Shiro lynched.

Also if this is true, holy fuck well played Cerb.

Nah ... Cerb would just give the wrong answers if he was in convo with Shiro and wanted us to rope Shiro.

Actually I believe now that Shiro's talking with Cerb.

Based upon what evidence?

@Drixx

Cerb says that maybe he wants everyone to suspect me so he can create associatives like he would do if he was alive by acting scummy/arrogant.

Or maybe he doesn't trust me enough to confirm me so I dont start saying shit he isn't telling me after I confirm the link.

Nope. That doesn't cut it. There's literally hundreds of questions I can ask which only Cerb can answer. He knows this. Therefore if he were talking to you he would be fine confirming you because we can check every bit of info you pass along at any time we want.