Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Sakura Hana]

I have a question. How does one use a BP power? Like they are given a BP and make themselves bulletproof for that night or the rest of the game?

Single kill during that night and the next day phase, must be reused the following night regardless of whether it was spent or not the previous night.
To put it simply it's a self doc that lasts into the following day phase but only blocks a single kill.

[Sakura Hana]

Btw Nero if you

REALLY

think Nancy has high chance of scum, she's been in the townbloc and has gotten about 3 powers by now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh boy this has me a little topsy-turvy because those are the exact slots I thought BBmolla was shady for pushing
I'm thinking it's gonna be bye-bye previous theory, because it looks like distancing
so yeah tl;dr, if toog flips scum I'm gonna be looking at Nero and Theta rather than away from them

Hey that’s right, I forgot about that. Molla was heavily pushing Muffin as well - even claimed a fake guilty on him iirc? or was it Katsuki?

However, when questioned about his Muffin push by Stun, Toog renounced his predecessor’s read on him. Yeah that is really interesting.

[Nero Cain]

RIP TOWN

[Nancy Drew 39]

what if we just plan one or two suicide bombs that will give us a fair amount of information? like having theta alpine use it on a player like having theta use it on... kokichi
and the worst use it on... hebichan?

Long story short cutting out a lot of math here
Assume Toog is green and next day lynch is green for worst possible scenario
Also assuming no BP/HT/PN/freezing/what not for easier math
Deaths include via petrification or NK

This puts us at 11 town and 3 scum going into night.

Assume three scum get powers — 4 deaths 7 town 3 scum
Proper lynch outed scum — 3 deaths 4 town 2 scum
Proper lynch outed scum — 2 deaths 2 town 1 scum
We win at lylo only if the other bombs aren’t fired. Max safe bomb 3.

Assume two scum get powers — 3 deaths 8 town 3 scum
Proper lynch outed scum — 2 deaths 6 town 2 scum
Proper lynch outed scum — 1 death 5 town 1 scum
So if a bomb also went off then it’s another 1v3 lylo

Assume one scum gets powers — 9 town v 3 scum
Proper lynch outed scum — 8 town v 2 scum
However two bombs went off so it would be 4 town v 2 scum lylo

So the same number is three not four @Drixx?

Is this what you were seeing?
Apologies for the hurried typing i am typing up what I did last night before I go to work.
I adjusted my stuff to account for that. Did you see anything I could have missed?

My eyes glaze over at literally anything math related.

[Kokichi Oma]

You're assuming I've read nearly 350 pages. I said I'd actually get into the game if I'm given an ability.

Wrong you read it enough to see a guilty claim.
Ergo you would read the responses to that. So even if you missed all the previous you would still look at the bare minimum responses.

Not reading everything understandable not reading responses to the reason you’re voting is still sketchy.

Am I being unreasonable here?

Yes. So because I happened to be on when nos claimed the guilty, I'm sketchy. Got it

[Nancy Drew 39]

the only caveat of that plan is that we’d have to choose town players that are not utilizing the bulletproof vest, right?

Sakura (or less likely backup) would be the only one who wouldn’t need it tomorrow night.

[Kokichi Oma]

titus could not be voted day 2 because she was leader and leaders cannot be voted.

Voted her leader. Are you reading my posts? I said earlier only reason she wasnt lynched was because we couldn't

[Kokichi Oma]

because you kokichi moved over to katsuki when you had the opportunity to move from sando TO titus. you did not vote titus last day phase

This guy cant read English or hes scum. Which is it, Nancy

[Nancy Drew 39]

yuck. that is a definite neg we can talk about next day phase

like, if we choose that plan, we just give it to obvtown period.

because scum could try clearing one another

Yeah suicide bomb imho is safer and worse comes to worse we choose less bombs to give out.
Max safe is three I think but if people are really scared less works too. Mainly we need to use the townblock to our advantage.

Agree, the more trusted townies, the better IMO.

[Kokichi Oma]

I think titus is scum but unfortunately nothing we can do now. I'll look into the top 3 wagons since we have 1 day left

lol, you even acknowledged we could not vote for titus. are you trolling right now?

Again. Can he not read English or is he scum

[Kokichi Oma]

like if all 3 scum are not here.


Creature
Gamma Emerald
hebichan
Kokichi Oma
Nancy Drew 39
Toogeloo



then there has to be atleast one scum in

Drixx
Frozen Angel
MathBlade
Nero Cain
Nosferatu
Sakura Hana
Sando
stungun0404
Theta Alpine
the worst
Toranaga

I guess that's a bridge we'll cross when/if we get there though. At that point, we'd prob be flipping Nos/Theta though.

Wow this really narrows it down. Thanks

[Kokichi Oma]

Only reason I haven't replaced out is cause I dont want someone to have to read 350 pages lol

[Nero Cain]

Wow this really narrows it down. Thanks

always glad to be of service.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I also reread the last page of titus iso and now I think it could be distancing. Like titus was thinking: if they end up lynching me this guy might get a chance because of this and if they actually lynch them I get a bit of cred.

plus people were not going anywhere else so it was her only opening. I can't see any refrence to creature before that or am I missing anything?

YES!
This is exactly what I've been saying.

Makes perfect sense for scum!Titus to go after the lhf/likely mislynchbait to save herself.

[Kokichi Oma]

Nancy I'm pretty sure stun isnt this stupid. And can read English. Do you think he can be scum?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nero - Dude. Snark and rhetoric are

NOT

the same thing as abuse. Everyone who knows Titus (and Mathblade for that matter) knows how to wind them up personally. That's abuse. Me being tongue in cheek is NOT abuse.

Every single "point" in your case against me as a bunch of NAI shit. Obviously if I were scum, I did and would do those things. I didn't even try to say otherwise.

So if you have a bunch of stuff that is literally (by your own definition) WiFoM, then you look at the overall picture. In what world do I even at all go along with doing anything to try and help Titus after day one if I'm scum with her? You know (or should know) how ruthlessly I will cut bait on a scum partner who screws up and is an inevitable lynch. You've just spent an inordinate amount of time pointing out that I did none of the things I would normally do as scum with a doomed teammate. Like ... 1+1 is not hard man.

Drop the tunnel goggles if you're town. You're wasting a lot of effort to no good end. If you are as good as you think, I dropped a pretty strong town tell quite awhile back. I'm certain at least two people caught it. If I count Math who was already sure before I did it, then that would be three ... but I'm not sure Math was actually bothering to look at that point.


@math: you're missing a huge problem in terms of being able to determine if any scum make it into the team. You're assuming that you can isolate them in a way that you can't. I really don't want to say more and I shouldn't have even said this I don't think. -- You did catch the math problem though which is good. I'm pretty sure that we lose a little EV with the suicide vest plan, with the upside obviously being a faster win.

So ... do we want to play mafia and leverage a strong position to maintain a near 100% EWR or do we want to gamble a significant amount of that to try and win sooner? I mean ... I've not had to work as hard this game to get to this state. You and a couple others have done the heavy lifting. What I

can

tell you from past experience where Cerb and I solve the game and we tell the game exactly what's going on and we have it set up for a win and then people do dumb shit and we lose ... that is crazy frustrating and has gotten super old. I highly do NOT recommend it.

All it would take is for one of the scums to have played a strong game so far and be in a super trusted spot and using 2-3 suicide vest takes out 4-6 townies. That takes away 2-3 cycles where they have to keep playing a really strong game. In this case I really feel like time is an ally. It's really hard to be scum but keep up a realistic narrative that you are town for real time months on end. Believe me because I have done it before a few times and it takes a toll. (Smite and SU2 are the games that come immediately to mind where I played alone as last scum for months in real time; I enjoyed both games but needed to recharge mentally after each one).

You know me well enough to know that I have very strong reasons behind what I'm saying. If there were some way for us to freaking neighborize I would really love to do an unfiltered thought dump right about now.

@Drixx
First I really wasn’t looking for any sort of tells. If I happen to find them (like in regards to Nancy and what power she took) then I note it and move on. I have been focusing on now having town self implode. Between that and work and everything else this has been an insane game. Secondly dropping a town/trust tell (e.g. something you only do reliably as town and not as scum) intentionally and then not replicating it (or trying) in scum games is either illegal or angle shooting so I don’t want to discuss the “tells” angle.

Secondly yes I can be wound up. However calling it ABUSE is a bit of a stretch. I have gotten a lot thicker skin since taking some mediciation to help bring my hormones in equilibrium. I know people who are actual abuse victims and I hate the characterization. I understand your point and would say “low blow” or something similar.

In regards to your maintain a near 100% winrate comment, that is simply wine. Let me explain how.
Assume that we don’t do the suicide plan and you FA and Sakura are scum. (Again I do not believe this)
Then all three of you pick up petrify and track people without powers. Then after one/two/three mislynches whatever the required townies is mass petrification happens and you hit me and some other townie with powers.

At that similar point there is no way we then go for the townblock before that point.
What suicide bomber does is gives us control over the clock.

We have to make a decision whether we trust the town block. We are at 14 town 3 scum. If Toog is town and NK successful (which in 3 townblock would be) we are at 12. The next day. Mislynch is 11. If there are three scum in the town block we are already fucked if we play traditionally based on the numbers.

The suicide bomb is only risky if we hit three scum exactly with the bombs but in that case they are outed.

Playing conservative or traditionally we are going to have to take it on faith that the town block is town.

However that leap of faith is not really a big leap. If FA or myself or Sakura were scum it would have been advantageous to actually kill with power negate and be outed as then due to the gamestate Nancy and you get lynched. When I was scum in Shadowrun I used this specific idea in Shadowrun when I was forced to kill the traitor and then had just barely enough to get the resurrection at the end of the game.

Furthermore we know that assuming Titus gave powers to someone that night and killed Ank for that reason then this necessarily means she taught scum how to play the long game and therefore would not attract attention to the buddies. All three would have to be alive. Therefore Kokichi and Creature are likely not scum. Furthermore there have been seemingly no negate kills in the townblock. This also seems to be stealth scum.

Do you see where I am going with this?

When did Titus spew Kokichi?

[MathBlade]

Sando - VCA says lynch
Toogeloo BBmolla* - Lean town, need to verify if whiteknight
stungun0404 Brandi* NicoRobin* - Hostile, can't get in his head
MathBlade randomidget** - Sibling rivalry blocks read
Kokichi Oma - Lurker
Nancy Drew 39 - Town early now MIA, weaker read
hebichan - Still think this needs pressure to sort
zMuffinMan - Clear by VCA
Creature* Human Sequencer* - Needs to be lynched, scum
Katsuki - Policy
Sakura Hana - Cleared by VCA
Toranaga** - Townish, We did have the interactions I was looking for
Frozen Angel - Town, Needs power tomorrow
123456789 - Dead scum
Shiro - Town by medium
Gamma Emerald - Gun to my head town, no memorable posting but felt town objecting to me saying it
Ankamius brassherald - Dead town
Nosferatu Chickadee - Gun to my head town
Cerberus v666 - Sads
Myloninja13* - Dead
the worst - Opportunistic. Gun to my head scum.
Titus
Drixx* - He reveals himself later but I didn't like his reaction to not getting a power.

Here. Titus calls out Kokichi for lurking and Creature again for being scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I wanted titus since day 2 when she was picked leader when literally no one voted for her. Also only voted sando at that time cause nos claimed a guilty on him

...It’s shit like this that makes me wonder if Titus was stupid.

People claiming guilties or masons has been refuted so many damn times. It was also refuted many times day one and two this simple doesn’t fly.

I think Nos is still hinting at this. I honestly don’t know why anyone thinks they can get away with that in this setup but I was in a game, where people didn’t think there was as SK, eventhough, it was mentioned right there in the setup.

[MathBlade]

I also reread the last page of titus iso and now I think it could be distancing. Like titus was thinking: if they end up lynching me this guy might get a chance because of this and if they actually lynch them I get a bit of cred.

plus people were not going anywhere else so it was her only opening. I can't see any refrence to creature before that or am I missing anything?

YES!
This is exactly what I've been saying.

Makes perfect sense for scum!Titus to go after the lhf/likely mislynchbait to save herself.

Lhf?

[Nancy Drew 39]

you're a pretty weak townread @stun

prolly rather just thrown my vote to someone I'm hard tring if I can't vote Sakura ngl

at least the core townblock townreads me though, right? just the scumpool does not strong townread me at this point

and you are still there... so is gamma emerald... so is hebichan... so is kokichi. so is literally all the opposition against hard townreading me right now and even possibly scumreading me is firmly entrenched in my and consensus scumpool. and i feel like sakura hana and sando have backed it up a little.

creature townreads me from the non-townblock, hebi supposably “wanted to townread me” at one point hut never did

Yeah, I’m heavy townleaning you. You’re not being able to read me correctly yet, is concerning.

i have you as a current heavy townlean, though, myself.

you have not been in my primary scumpool this entire day phase or even necessarily in my null zone :p

i just had to talk with toog that if he is so confident there is scum in the pool of fa, sakura, myself, you, mathblade, and drixx then it would have to be the ones that i cannot put 100 percent confidence on, which would be only you and drixx, who are 80 percent plus confidence. and i’d honestly risk the game both of you flip town tbch. i just do not honestly see there being scum in that pool

Okay, thanks for clarifying.

[Nancy Drew 39]

but where were they when i had to defuse that sando town wagon to get some votes on titus? they were not on that wagon and this is proveable

Lol. Do you not remember my deal with shiro? Likely why shiro was killed by the way

I wanted titus since day 2 when she was picked leader when literally no one voted for her. Also only voted sando at that time cause nos claimed a guilty on him

have you even paid attention to the mechanics of this game at all?

titus could not be voted day 2 because she was leader and leaders cannot be voted.

nos cannot have a cop guilty because there was no such power ever given out, and everyone started as vanilla that is town at least. and plus nos was never given a power

+1

[Nero Cain]

lame.

of course, Nos wasn't telling the truth. It wasn't a hard observation to make though I think Stun is town anyways it seems a little nonsensical that you think that's some amazing good point.

of course, you can say that Kokichi is scum/dumb for believing that though.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I was given a power.


Do I really have one or not?

You were not given one and won’t be I already sent in my list

You need to start playing with your head and stop playing with your ego. Like I don't really care if I get a power or not but I am really really obviously town fo in my mind any power that's not going to me is going to a plausible scum slot. You say that I'm not playing/working with the town and that's not true at all. I'm going along with the Toog lynch, I'm down with the bomb plan and my reads mirror most of the town, I think. The only diffrence is that I'm suspicious of Drixx and Tor and I (I think Stun too?) are scumreading Creature. If anything, I'd say that it's

YOU

that's going against the town.

Drixx is numerically possible to not be scum b/c there are more than 3 scummy slots if the game isn't over after we kill all of (toog) Creature,

Nancy

, Kokichi, and Hebi then I'd campaign for his lynch. A lot of people are saying that he took BP and that makes him town but I'm not really understanding that.

I’m really beginning to see Math’s point. You have no goddamned basis for scumreading me and I’m starting to think Drixx could actually be town here. If you’re deliberately targetting me, why not Drixx? I think I was right to be suspicious of Katsuki slot. Have no idea what I ever townread you for. If Toog flips green, I’ll be keeping a close eye on you.

[Nero Cain]

What would a green Toog flip say about me?