Forgotten Hourglass [Game Over]

[Moment]

Well now, seems I'm late to the party once more. I'll catch up as soon as I get free chance.

[Moment]

Right then, I've finally got a chance to sit down and take a look through things. If anyone else is around, feel free to let me know if you want my thoughts on something or if there's something in specific you think I should pay attention to.

[Moment]

do you have reads?

Oh, I guess I wasn't really clear in my wording; I didn't mean that I had past-tense "gotten" a chance to look through things, I meant that my chance started right then (and is now completed).

No strong reads as of yet, but I've got some leans going either way. Kokichi, you (matt), Dunnstral, Nancy and

perhaps

Sakura (pending taking a look back at the last game for comparison on something) all seem town enough to me for now. I agree with others on Ankamius' posting just in general not being the best so far, but that's not really a strong scumread at all.



I haven't liked some of what Spiffeh has been saying; specifically, it was these two lines that really stuck out to me:

Nancy, you admit yourself that your early game is inconsistent but when you're wagoned you say that they shouldn't be scum reading you here because of how you acted in the beginning of Necromancer.

Some would argue that there won’t be any meaningful contribution before votes actually count.

The first line from 157 is logically correct, but it's the kind of logically correct thing that someone could point out regardless of alignment, and I feel like a scum Spiffeh would be more apt to take that opportunity to point it out than a town Spiffeh. When it comes to Nancy Drew, that kind of logical inconsistency really doesn't seem particularly alignment relevant - at least, that's how it seems to me - and so pointing it out would be more of an attempt to look like you're doing something than actually doing something.

The second quote really just stuck out to me for the wording. He wasn't making that argument, he was just saying that "some would argue" that. It's weasel wording which, in all honesty, is probably not scum indicative, especially for such a tangentially alignment-related issue as the starting of the day. Even still, it stuck out to me upon reading through and I felt it worth mentioning.

[Moment]

And despite all those words spent on Spiffeh, I think the best place for my vote is actually on Nosferatu. His series of posts starting at 292 strikes me as forced, and I feel more confident in that actually being scum indicative than any of the other thoughts I've mentioned so far.

I'll also be keeping my eye on Mylo and MariaR.

VOTE: Nosferatu

[Moment]

Right then, I've finally got a chance to sit down and take a look through things. If anyone else is around, feel free to

let me know if you want my thoughts on something

or if there's something in specific you think I should pay attention to.

I'm taking a look back at the last game right now, so stay tuned, and I'll say more after. In the meantime, mind elaborating on the whole picture gimmick? Is this something you've just decided to do for fun, or is it a genuine restriction?

[Moment]

Alright, I think I've seen enough, at least for what I was looking for. While reading I noticed that Sakura really didn't seem all that invested in her scumreads, but it seems that the same thing held true in Minuet's Trio. That being said, even if it's not scum-indicative, that doesn't necessarily make it

town

indicative; where my mild townread comes in is from 282:

my new goal is to receive no more than one vote this game

please help me accomplish this goal

no no NO NO NO.
This is literally the kind of posting you like to make as scum
VOTE: muffin

This seems to be a very genuine conviction / reaction. That's it. I can't really come up with much else to describe my thoughts there; it just looks genuine to me.

[Moment]

They say that trying to explain your intuition actually destroys it. I wonder - perhaps the less I can explain something I feel, the more I can trust it?

Eh, obviously won't hold true for everything. Might be worth thinking about, though.

[Moment]

@moment thoughts on Katsuki. He is playing so very different this game.

Different in what sense?

[Moment]

He just posted spam until he suddenly became GOAT in Minuet.

First, there’s this weird dynamic with Mufffin and then he votes me for suspicious sounding reasons without ever scumreading me in approximately the first 8 or so pages. I thought his reaction to Muffin’s Alice posts were kind of overblown.

I'm failing to see where the "difference" part of what you're saying comes in. Apart from thinking that he had an overblown reaction - a valid reason to scumread someone - none of what you describe seems relevant. As far as I remember the thing with MuffinMan happened in the last game as well, and as for his vote on you; I really doubt it's all that meaningful. I mean, it really is just possible that he scumread you but didn't say anything about it.

I think you really ought to stop trying to scumhunt solely off of people's interactions with yourself. (Remind me to come back to this later.)

------
By the way I see all of you posting in other games. Come chat, why don't you; I'm bored, I've got time right now and I might not have this much time again soon.

[Moment]

But if someone townreads you for similar behaviour in a previous game, should I just ignore that?

So, to be clear, you're saying that you find it suspicious that Katsuki scumreads you here when he townread you in Minuet's Trio and you think you've been acting similarly? Well, in the first place having just looked back at Katsuki's ISO in MT I don't actually see him townreading you early on; the exact opposite, in fact.

I don't think it's something you should necessarily ignore, but I think maybe you should just mentally put more distance between the the ideas of what people's reads on you are and what their alignment is. People can be wrong and still town.

I noticed you make a comment seemingly along that exact same fallacious line earlier, and I cringed reading it. It was this:

Spoiler:

Some would argue that there won’t be any meaningful contribution before votes actually count.

Also why?

WE CAN FINALLY LYNCH PPL

VOTE: NANCY

Why?

Your PM says you're scum.

No it doesn’t. You’re either lying or trolling here.

------

To be clear, none of this is me townreading Katsuki. I'm just trying to explain that I think that your reasoning for him being scum is flawed.

[Moment]

Guys Cupcake-suki might be scum

What makes you say so?

[Moment]

It's possible that we're simply on track in terms of scumreads and so that's what could be leading to the lull in content. Perhaps unlikely, but still possible. Alternatively, we're totally off and so scum don't care to do anything.

If people seem to agree on scumreads, then what about townreads?

[Moment]

It's possible that we're simply on track in terms of scumreads and so that's what could be leading to the lull in content. Perhaps unlikely, but still possible. Alternatively, we're totally off and so scum don't care to do anything.

If people seem to agree on scumreads, then what about townreads?

TBG, Matt, Wisdom are likely town.

I’m the most suspicious on Katsuki, Nos.

Iffy on Spiffeh, Muffin, Ank

Feeling okay about everyone else so far.

I'm interested in your reasoning on townreading Wisdom.

------

start by voting spiffeh

Thoughts on Nosferatu?

[Moment]

idk what Ank is trying to pull with her whole "it's cool to not care" schtick, but I don't think she would be this unresponsive as scum.

I've played with and correctly identified scum!Ankamius several times (admittedly years ago) and as scum she tries to sound important/helpful which is completely absent here.

She could be playing like this deliberately to counteract my ability to read her but for now it's not worth exploring that

This is almost exactly the same thought that's been rattling around in my head for a while. I might be one that's prone to fall trap to scum intentionally going for the "too scummy to be scum" look, but it just never makes sense to me when people seemingly don't care about making themselves look towny.

------

On an unrelated note, I'm concerned with people townreading TBG. This isn't in just a "interested in the reasons behind a townread" fashion, as I asked Nancy with regards to Wisdom, where I don't really have many concerns myself about the person in question and yet I'm interested in the reasoning regardless; no, for this I distinctly believe that it is a bad idea to be townreading TBG at the moment. Going off of the assumption that his posting restriction is self-imposed, I find that while what he's posted so far has actually managed to be more game-relevant than one might expect from someone with his restriction, his restriction in the first place shifts expectations, so to speak.

By that I mean to say that seeing what's contained in say, 331, someone might be inclined to townread TBG for something along the lines of "making an effort" or some such, whereas if someone made the exact same post but expressed textually, I sincerely doubt that anyone would consider it a reason to townread someone. Expectations, or perhaps more accurately,

standards

for where a reader might draw the line on what's considered town-indicative are shifted. That's why I think it's in some sense dangerous to be townreading TBG at the moment; if his posting resitrction

is

self-imposed, then that simple choice has made him a much easier townread.

I hope the point that I'm trying to get across here is understandable.

[Moment]

And while I'm on the subject of voicing perhaps somewhat far-fetched concerns, I think MariaR may have been trying (is still trying to?) pocket Nancy Drew. I first noticed it upon my first readthrough of the thread where it seemed like much of what Maria was saying was engaging with Nancy. When I put it like that it doesn't sound so bad - especially as Ms. Drew is quite the content producer - but I think that reviewing Maria's ISO may help illustrate my point for anyone interested.

To give a few quotes to illustrate my point:

I have nancy as town
my dunnstral read

and that's it.

Who else are you looking at nancy

I believe it was these two quotes that first caused me to realize this while reading through. Something about the singularity of the read as well as the question made it look to me like Maria had the goal of tying to get Nancy to strongly townread her; anyone who played in or has read Minuet's Trio (or, I assume, other games with Nancy) should realize that it's not much of a difficult task.

I decided not to bring this up initially in order to observe if the pattern of behavior would continue, and I think that it did with this quote:

Nancy Drew is pretty transparent town like it almost hurts
Wouldn't you agree @MeowriaR

I sure would.

The lack of response to anything between this post and the last post in Maria's ISO "pings" me in a way that I find hard to describe. Perhaps that goes back to what I was thinking about earlier.


Any thoughts?

[Moment]

Goodness you all post fast.

[Moment]

Moment what do you think of Dunnstral?

He hasn't really stood out to me much as of yet, although if my memory serves me he "hung back" in Minuet's Trio as well. I thought that was he was trying to do with the deadline was genuine, for what it's worth.

------

Ok I believe you because I doubt you'd lie about something you're literally asking me to find.

I'm a little surprised you let me off the hook this easily?

I thought it made sense that you would be hard on me based on your experience with town!me, but immediately letting it go doesn't really jive with how you were pressuring me before. Can you explain why you moved on so quickly?

To be fair, I think I'm also going through kind of a quick turn on you; there's somewhat of a stark contrast between what you were posting just days ago and what I'm reading right now. Town or scum, you've certainly upped your game.

[Moment]

I think he’s right to townread you though. You don’t seem to be pushing any agenda and are genuinely trying to solve things.

Very little of what my point was revolved around his townread on me. Actually, nothing of what I had to say revolved around his read on me.

------

All caught up

VOTE: Dunnstral

I think this is very worthy of a wagon

I'm town reading Nancy and Purrcocet pretty hard. Ank and kind of Maria are town leans atm

I'm pretty underwhelmed with Muffin and that could be a byproduct of the game being really slow but I feel like I remember him at least TRYING to be more helpful in his town games?

I'm interested to hear your reasoning on Maria being town.

------

moment could be scum for using fast as an adverb - it feels icky

I'll have you know my grasp on the English language is imperfectable.

[Moment]

Sure, Nancy.

[Moment]

I know. My point was that his reads weren’t off. I don’t see any reason to scumread at this time.

Having reads that aren't off isn't a reason to townread someone. The simple act of posting reads itself really shouldn't be a reason to townread someone. My main point was that for the sake of "saftey", I suppose, I don't think it's a good idea to townread TBG. I'm not saying there's reason to scumread him; I'm saying there's reason to

not townread him

, as I went over.

------

This didn't load for me so I had to look at the URL manually; if anyone else had that same problem, the image says "I like it".

------

I was trying to buddy Nancy yes. What's your point?

Well, my point was that that would make you scum.

[Moment]

I didn't mind the fact that he wasn't starting the voting, I have a problem with how he devoted a whole long post to how pro-town it was to make sure everyone contributed before starting the real Day and in the meantime doing nothing himself to actually contribute

@TehBrawlGuy my reason for voting Dunn

Do you believe that the hypocrisy that you're pointing out is more reason to believe that Dunnstral is scum? I think in and of itself hypocrisy isn't a very reliable scumtell.

------

except for moment [the GOAT]

[Moment]

By the way, just for the sake of this not getting lost to the noise: I'd really like everyone's thoughts on this.

I was trying to buddy Nancy yes. What's your point?

[Moment]

tbf I'm buddying myself pretty hard

Please spoiler such comments in the future; there are children watching.

[Moment]

well that's not actually what I meant

but thanks

(Sorry, that was my attempt at humor; probably should've added a wink or something to get that across better!)

[Moment]

By the way, just for the sake of this not getting lost to the noise: I'd really like everyone's thoughts on this.

I was trying to buddy Nancy yes. What's your point?

i mean ironically its closer to a town post than a scum tell or anything like that but maria flips red

which means that she may not flip red?
but nothing else from her is really towny

also i know she's not really nice and she's a bully maybe that's why i scumread her

Eh, I'm not entirely convinced. It seems entirely reasonable to me that scum!Maria who was trying to buddy Nancy would simply say that that's what she was doing upon being accused and make the argument that it doesn't make her scum; it may be a more tenable position than trying to argue that she wasn't buddying Nancy.

------

Well, my point was that that would make you scum

Oh okay than

Glad you understand. Are we in agreement, then?

------

Do you believe that the hypocrisy that you're pointing out is more reason to believe that Dunnstral is scum? I think in and of itself hypocrisy isn't a very reliable scumtell.

It's more the amount of words he devoted to saying it that bothers me. It seemed like he needed to look like he was doing something so he decided to put a bunch of effort in explaining the pros of waiting to vote which is ultimately pretty useless and he hasn't done much since

It's not a read I'm married to he's just the player I'm most willing to vote for rn idk

That's an understandable position. In terms of other reads, what are your thoughts on Nosferatu as scum? I talked a little about my own reasoning for him being scum in 307, if you're at all interested.

Also, if you care or are in an explanatory mood, I would be interested in your thoughts on these people:

zMuffin
Brian Skies
Wisdom
Katsuki
Mylo

[Moment]

And despite all those words spent on Spiffeh, I think the best place for my vote is actually on Nosferatu. His series of posts starting at 292 strikes me as forced, and I feel more confident in that actually being scum indicative than any of the other thoughts I've mentioned so far.

I'll also be keeping my eye on Mylo and MariaR.

VOTE: Nosferatu

[Moment]

Glad you understand. Are we in agreement, then?

You find buddying people scummy than I understand why you're reading me like you are right now. Nothing I can really do to change that but do you scumread me for other reasons besides the buddying?
Pedit: Quote said stance

I don't think that a town player typically devotes time to getting someone else in specific to townread them instead of trying to find scum, no. I also don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

The pocketing attempt would be the main reason, but the way you've dealt with it also doesn't really sit well with me.

------

I'm interested to hear your reasoning on Maria being town.

It's just gut really

My most recent completed game had scum!Maria in it and she was disengaged and pretty transparent so the fact that I feel the exact opposite on both accounts here is enough reason for me to town lean her for now

Well, I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "transparent" or what that would look like, but I think "disengaged" would describe Maria decently well - at least, before today, maybe. Either way, I don't expect to be able to argue against your instict; only to show what I see that makes me feel otherwise.

[Moment]

In the last 12 hours we've had more content than in the previous 3 days.
Im happy.

It is nice, isn't it? What I'm really glad for is that I'm here for it and not playing catch-up in the aftermath.

------

u can buddy as town

Eh.

Even if I were to accept this position - that town can buddy just like scum can - can you agree that buddying someone as your primary goal and then doing pretty much nothing else is scum-indicative?

[Moment]

well that's not actually what I meant

but thanks

(Sorry, that was my attempt at humor; probably should've added a wink or something to get that across better!)

I think that would've just made it sound condescending

I should probably just leave humor and all that to the professionals, honestly.

[Moment]

I don't think that a town player typically devotes time to getting someone else in specific to townread them instead of trying to find scum, no. I also don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

No buddying and pocketing is 2 dif things. I was trying to buddy Nancy and get ideas off her because I townread her. If she townreads me great that's a bonus but Nancy isn't a player that town reading me or scumreading me would make me perk my brow unlike someone like maybe Dunn or Kokichi

Hm, I think that's pretty transparently false, as a look at your ISOs show. You only ever asked a single question to her: the nonspecific "Who else are you looking at", which was never followed up on. Yes, you

talked

to her, but in my view more of your content was about making a show of interacting with her and having a strong townread on her in order to pocket her.

Like I pointed out earlier, I think a post like this doesn't come from someone who just wants to "bounce ideas off of someone"; I think it comes from someone who wants to make a show of their read. (Especially as considering the timing between this post and the last in your ISO and the content ignored between those two posts; for someone who claims to have wanted to get ideas from her, you certainly ignored a lot of what she posted)

Nancy Drew is pretty transparent town like it almost hurts
Wouldn't you agree @MeowriaR

I sure would.

But of course, I don't expect to convince you that you're scum; what's important is what other people think. So: thoughts, anyone?

[Moment]

are you trying to lynch her lmao cause we need to organize this wagon im js
otherwise i dont really see what the point to this approach is

Well, I think there's a pretty decent chance that she's scum, so organizing a wagon is something I'm interested in. Apart from that I'd like to hear from people I trust if I'm totally off track on what I'm saying.

[Moment]

Well Purr directly asked this question to Maria.

It's not so much

just

the answering of the question that I'm trying to highlight; it's the fact that, 100+ posts (as far as I remember) after her last post in the thread,

that

was what Maria responded to before disappearing again. Not only is it suspicious in itself with regards to pocketing, but it's entirey inconsistent with a supposed desire to "bounce ideas off of" you; after all, Maria skipped plenty of posts you made she could've responded to in order to respond to a post

about

you.

And, all that being said, I think this is where I'll leave my vote for now, while still keeping an eye on Nosferatu.

VOTE: MariaR

[Moment]

The reason I disappear is that I do other things while I post and sometimes forget about the game. Dunn can vouch for me on this I do agree that I could've asked Nancy more but my day really wasn't the best and mafia was the last thing on my mind. I do think you're towny because I can fully understand where you're coming from. Can you go into more detail on your Nos scumread? Would you lynch Spiffy here?

There's not much more to my Nosferatu scumread than I said in 307, especially considering as he hasn't actually been around since then. Spiffeh I'm starting to come around on; perhaps it's just me being fooled by scum starting to put more effort in, but I would need more convincing to lynch him at the moment.

And, as much as I believe you in what you say, I'm afraid it doesn't really change anything with regards to my read on you. I don't think that it could.

[Moment]

Well, you were beyond convinced I was scum in Minuet. I’m not comfortable lynching there yet. I liked her comments about the Mylo wagon because she’s right about that.

1) No, I wasn't.

2) Using that as a reason to not believe me here is a logical fallacy.

3) Scum can be right about something just as easily as town can.

[Moment]

Pedit: Would you join a Dunnstral wagon Moment? I'm pretty confident on that atm prob 60% Why is the Nos wagon a thing too like I joined that to save Spiffy but I don't know what the whole thing for him is being scum.

Most likely not; I don't think I really recall any reasons for him being scum outside of Spiffy pointing out his apparent hypocrisy, which I don't think would be a reliable scumtell.

[Moment]

Well, you were beyond convinced I was scum in Minuet. I’m not comfortable lynching there yet. I liked her comments about the Mylo wagon because she’s right about that.

1) No, I wasn't.

2) Using that as a reason to not believe me here is a logical fallacy.

3) Scum can be right about something just as easily as town can.

I actually want to expand on this because - and I really mean you no offense - Nancy is so wrong that it deserves far more words devoted to the subject.

1) No, I wasn't "beyond convinced" that you were scum in Minuet's trio. In fact, multiple times I expressed the opinion that, although I was not yet convinced that you were as town as others seemed to believe, I was more than willing to look elsewhere because there were scumreads that I were more confident on. This isn't an argument. It's not something that you can

possibly

dispute. It's literally the words that I wrote.

Speaking of those scumreads that I was more confident on, one of them happened to be Ginngie; so

even if

the idea that my reads from Minuet's Trio were reason to disregard my logic in this game, you're ignoring my reads that were

correct.

2) Your response to my entire line of reasoning was "well, you were wrong here". This is a logical fallacy. That's not to say that I'm entirely disregarding the concept of looking at someone's long-run read accuracy; however, not only is that not what you're doing, but on a case-by-case basis that wouldn't even apply here, especially given your massive sample size of one game (one game that, I might add, you selectively choose a misrepresented incorrect read from while ignoring a correct one).

If you want to directly refute what I said regarding Maria's pocketing of you, I would love that. If you want to just say "eh, I'm not convinced", I wouldn't really enjoy that, but on some level I could still understand it. Please don't insult me by responding to me with something like this.

3) This part doesn't really need that many words; if you think that agreeing with someone on a comment like "policy lynches are bad", an obvious comment on a wagon that's destined to go nowhere, or something to the same effect is a reason to townread someone - well then, perhaps you aren't so difficult to pocket as you think.

[Moment]

Alright. How do you feel about Purr Sakura and Brain?

Town, town, undecided. Why those three in specific?

------

I think you misunderstood my point or I didn’t explain it clearly. No clearly being wrong about me in Minuet doesn’t make you wrong about Maria. My point was that you seemed pretty convinced of my alleged scummyness in that game. I’m kind’ve on the fence but I’m not really getting scummy vibes from her.

I should hope that what I'm saying speaks for itself such that it would remain true regardless of who was saying it. Who I am shouldn't even factor into it.

[Moment]

For the record, I'm coming more around to town Dunnstral and back around to scum Spiffeh.

------

Town, town, undecided. Why those three in specific?

It's the 3 people I'm trying to sort the most at the moment.

Is that because you scumread them, or...? I'm not sure you got to the core of my question. Why are you trying to sort those three the most right now?

[Moment]

Did you read my reponse to this where I clarified what I meant? I also had forgotten about your Gingie trad when I made that post, so for you to suggest I am somehow deliberately twisting anything you said is simply not the case. Your comment about my not being as easy to pocket as I think, is also inwarrented because I said, I’m on the fence. I’m not at all dismissing your points either about her taking “easy stances”. So maybe I do need more convincing because I’m not seeing it yet.

You're right; I think somewhere in what I said I implied that it was a deliberate misrepresentation. That was wrong of me. I got perhaps more than a little upset when I saw your initial response.

So, I'd like to clarify; if you're "on the fence", does that mean that you agree with my reasoning regarding her attempting to pocket you and yet that alone doesn't convince you that she's scum, or is it that you're not convinced of something within the argument itself?

[Moment]

Also for the record if I were scum here none of you would know it

If it makes you feel better, I realize that I may have been building up a false dichotomy in my head between you and Dunnstral and have hopefully stopped thinking that way. That is, I'm more open to the idea that you're simply both town now.

[Moment]

I'm deeply scared to go to sleep lest I wake up to 15 pages to catch up on.

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707 is patently untrue unless this were a 1-scum game

please don't make me invoke LAL spiffeh

Perhaps he's traitor-signaling.

[Moment]

This may be the same potential mistake I'm making with Ankamius, but I don't believe that zMuffinMan as scum would be somehow unable to produce content. Now, that's not a reason to townread him; I'm not saying "Muffinman as scum could just fake content, so he's probably town here". I think this is a situation where it's the type of thing to come from either alignment, so if you're going to scumread him, I don't think it should be for that.

------

On a separate note, I would support an actual lynch wagon on Myloninja right now. I got somewhat of a strong instinctual feeling that he was trying to

look

like he was contributing with his most recent posts.

[Moment]

Actually, purrcocet; there's something I'd like to ask you; when did your read on Dunnstral go from town to scum?

[Moment]

(Maybe I overuse semicolons.)

[Moment]

For the sake of coming together to actually get one of my preferred scumreads lynched...

VOTE: Nosferatu

I'd like it to be known that my main lynch targets are still Nosferatu, Maria and Myloninja, in no particular order. The amount of people disengaged with the game is, in my view, making it difficult to get meaningful wagons going. So, I suppose I should take what I can get.

------

(Maybe I overuse semicolons.)

Like semicolons - dashes too

Are you saying I overuse dashes as well? Well, I will admit; that's one of my "tics", so to speak, but I've been trying to cut back on it.

[Moment]

hey guys

maybe Moment is scum

I don't really feel like thinking about that rn but you never know!!!!!

Did something in specific impel you to mention this, or...?

------

I meant "I like semicolons - dashes too"

Yes, they're quite nice.

[Moment]

Moment not really

It's been a fleeting thought of mine a few times throughout the game when reading your posts

And I don't have a specific reason for it

Well, I'm always up for being randomly lynched Day 1 for no discernible reason just like in Minuet's Trio, so if you want to get that going again then just let me know.

[Moment]

Spiffeh, you haven't mentioned Nosferatu at all ever since your one naked vote on him. What are your thoughts now? Any reason in specific for the silence? And, would you join his wagon?

[Moment]

Thoughts on Maria being scum and the whole pocketing thing, Brian?

[Moment]

Thoughts on Maria being scum and the whole pocketing thing, Brian?

What pocketing thing? Nancy? Idk.

This isn't really what I expect from Maria when I play with her, although she did state she was trying something new.

I'm mostly curious why she had an issue with me trying to wagon Mylo (who I skimmed and thought the content looked okay, but didn't really see anything that convinced me he was town).

This pocketing thing:

Spoiler: Relevant quotes

And while I'm on the subject of voicing perhaps somewhat far-fetched concerns, I think MariaR may have been trying (is still trying to?) pocket Nancy Drew. I first noticed it upon my first readthrough of the thread where it seemed like much of what Maria was saying was engaging with Nancy. When I put it like that it doesn't sound so bad - especially as Ms. Drew is quite the content producer - but I think that reviewing Maria's ISO may help illustrate my point for anyone interested.

To give a few quotes to illustrate my point:

I have nancy as town
my dunnstral read

and that's it.

Who else are you looking at nancy

I believe it was these two quotes that first caused me to realize this while reading through. Something about the singularity of the read as well as the question made it look to me like Maria had the goal of tying to get Nancy to strongly townread her; anyone who played in or has read Minuet's Trio (or, I assume, other games with Nancy) should realize that it's not much of a difficult task.

I decided not to bring this up initially in order to observe if the pattern of behavior would continue, and I think that it did with this quote:

Nancy Drew is pretty transparent town like it almost hurts
Wouldn't you agree @MeowriaR

I sure would.

The lack of response to anything between this post and the last post in Maria's ISO "pings" me in a way that I find hard to describe. Perhaps that goes back to what I was thinking about earlier.


Any thoughts?

I don't think that a town player typically devotes time to getting someone else in specific to townread them instead of trying to find scum, no. I also don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

No buddying and pocketing is 2 dif things. I was trying to buddy Nancy and get ideas off her because I townread her. If she townreads me great that's a bonus but Nancy isn't a player that town reading me or scumreading me would make me perk my brow unlike someone like maybe Dunn or Kokichi

Hm, I think that's pretty transparently false, as a look at your ISOs show. You only ever asked a single question to her: the nonspecific "Who else are you looking at", which was never followed up on. Yes, you

talked

to her, but in my view more of your content was about making a show of interacting with her and having a strong townread on her in order to pocket her.

Like I pointed out earlier, I think a post like this doesn't come from someone who just wants to "bounce ideas off of someone"; I think it comes from someone who wants to make a show of their read. (Especially as considering the timing between this post and the last in your ISO and the content ignored between those two posts; for someone who claims to have wanted to get ideas from her, you certainly ignored a lot of what she posted)

Nancy Drew is pretty transparent town like it almost hurts
Wouldn't you agree @MeowriaR

I sure would.

But of course, I don't expect to convince you that you're scum; what's important is what other people think. So: thoughts, anyone?

[Moment]

Moment not really

It's been a fleeting thought of mine a few times throughout the game when reading your posts

And I don't have a specific reason for it

Well, I'm always up for being randomly lynched Day 1 for no discernible reason just like in Minuet's Trio, so if you want to get that going again then just let me know.

That’s not happening this time. Meta is a wondrous thing. Lol

(I don't think meta should be needed to see that I'm town: here or in Minuet's Trio...)

[Moment]

I'm mostly curious why she had an issue with me trying to wagon Mylo (

who I skimmed and thought the content looked okay

, but didn't really see anything that convinced me he was town).

Also, for the record: I came to the distinctly opposite conclusion as the bolded. Just don't want my scumread on Mylo to be understated or ignored.

------

is maria scum?

I think so, yes. What makes you ask?

[Moment]

This pocketing thing:

You may be right, but two mentions and a third that was prompted by another hardly constitute pocketing for me.

I'm still not a huge fan of her complaints about my Mylo wagon, and her Dunn push is just meh to me (but that's mostly because I just haven't cared enough to analyze that in any depth).

Eh. I think her reaction to my pointing it out is also reason enough; I think the point she made about wanting to "bounce ideas off of Nancy" was patently false. I could agree with you on the dunn push, though.

------

Also, for the record: I came to the distinctly opposite conclusion as the bolded. Just don't want my scumread on Mylo to be understated or ignored.

I said it looked okay (as in I can click a post and go like, maybe). I didn't say that I thought it was town.

Also, I skimmed it.

Oh, don't get me wrong; I wasn't disagreeing with you or anything or saying that you had it wrong. Your mentioning of it just reminded me that I wanted to say something about it.

[Moment]

Eh. I think her reaction to my pointing it out is also reason enough; I think the point she made about wanting to "bounce ideas off of Nancy" was patently false. I could agree with you on the dunn push, though.

Perhaps "reason enough" was a poor choice of words; I think "is also worth consideration" gets across what I was trying to say better.

[Moment]

Brian SKies [1] - MariaR

(Hm, is this some kind of hint that Brian Skies is a serial killer?)

------

So, should we vote elsewhere? He still has contributed the least to the gamestate, so . . . \_0_/

It sounds like you're basing your decision on who to vote for off of something other than who you think is likely to be scum...?

[Moment]

Brian/Moment you don't have a read on Wisdom?

Not really. He hasn't been much of a presence, especially as compared to his presence in Minuet's Trio (which I distinctly, distinctly remember). If that in itself is indicative one way or the other, I couldn't really tell you.

[Moment]

seems nonchalant like he usually is
doesnt seem to be looking to score mislynches
even if spiffeh is a mislynch he doesn't really care how he looks on that wagon or at all

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I don't exactly think it's something worth going all that much into today, unless someone thinks he has a good chance of being scum.

[Moment]

I've seen Nos act like this as town in a previous fakegod game, so this is disappointing.

If you're not interested in voting Nosferatu, I'm always open to voting Maria or Myloninja.

[Moment]

He even said that the only reason he voted for me is that I scumread him.

Where?

[Moment]

Why is he being difficult? I would prefer that wagon. Katsuki’s overereaction to the Muffin Alice thing, sounded really defensive.

nai i think

He even said that the only reason he voted for me is that I scumread him.

not scummy tho

(This post describes my thoughts strangely well...)

[Moment]

I'm completely fine with this as a lynch wagon, as I've explained before.

VOTE: Myloninja

[Moment]

Nancy, I appreciate the sentiment, but my name isn't actually Brian anyway.

Really? That's surprising, I thought everyone used their real names here: Matt, Maria, Nancy Drew, Sakura Hana... zMuffinMan...

(Happy birthday!)

[Moment]

no

he's town because the wagon on him is scum-motivated

Whose scum motivations? The only person I really have any concerns about on that wagon would be Nosferatu. It's made up of mostly the same people as the previous Nosferatu wagon, which I also had few concerns about.

[Moment]

mylo isn't town because of his iso

Funny - depending on how you interpret this sentence, I could actually agree with you here.

------

Why is Kokichi scum?

why is he town? at all?

I thought he had a few decent posts early in the game, but that's largely gone "stale".

[Moment]

VOTE: Nosferatu

Nancy Drew + Moment, do you believe in the dream?

It's mainly a matter of numbers for me, but even then all things being equal I still think I'd prefer Mylo over Nosferatu.

------

Err. I wouldn't vote Mylo. I think she is actually just busy. Just saying.

It's not really about the inactivity for me. In fact, it's the two content posts that he

did

make that I find scum-indicative.

------

Sorry I've been busy. I'll post more tonight. Top 3 srs and trs?

No need to apologize. My top three scumreads would be Nosferatu, Maria, and Myloninja, in no specific order. My top three townreads would be Nancy Drew, Purrcocet, and Dunnstral.

[Moment]

I'm at Purrcocet, Nancy, Maria, Sakura Hana, Moment all at town, Moment maybe just a town lean

since maybe this isn't out of what they can do as scum

What leads you to that conclusion?

[Moment]

That Katsuki wagon is really interesting. Both Katsuki and Nos, both initially placed weird votes on me (and ?os has yet to give a reason for it) and now one of them is voting the other. Possible bussing here?

This is a stupid thought process. Full stop.

For what it's worth, I agree with what Nosferatu is saying on this.

[Moment]

Hammer, please. The suspense is killing me.

------

He probably flips villa though, does anyone care at this point? Probably not because we need a lynch. Lol.

[Moment]

Dunn, Ace, Brian are probably conf town from that flip. It's clear scum tried to shift the lynch somewhere.

You think Nosferatu is conftown from the flip? Admittedly, I'm starting to doubt my earlier scumread on him, but if anyone were to have bussed, I would consider him as a definite suspect.

------

mylo isn't town because of his iso

If you're pointing that out to say that it makes Ankamius suspicious, I actually came to the opposite conclusion. I don't think scum Ankamius would make that sort of weak defense of a buddy that looked like he was about to be lynched. Again, this could just be me falling prey to overthinking things again (specifically with regards to Ankamius), or it could be me overestimating how much it looked like Mylo was actually going to get lynched and making false conclusions from there. I'm not actually sure.

[Moment]

I don't think there's a bad chance matt is scum.

[Moment]

I personally think we should all be slowing down a bit. Will try to elaborate better later.

[Moment]

nah the moment lynch was awesome because else id scumread him for all eternity

yeah i mean for the duration of the game

see the katsuki scumread that followed it, for example
it made me be useless for the whole game

Derp or possible scum slip?

What the hell are you talking about?

[Moment]

Then again, why wouldnt scum wisdom just hard bus mylo there.........

This is what I'm currently thinking, by the way.

[Moment]

At least I k

now Moment won't be

tray me. ;-;

Hm? I'm right there with you on this Wisdom wagon really not being that great of an idea right now.

[Moment]

Do you really need me to spell that out?

Humor me.

[Moment]

The first bolded is clearly a contradiction.

[Moment]

I wonder if Kokichi could explain the "scum slip" to us.

[Moment]

nah the moment lynch was awesome because else id scumread him for all eternity

You would have found that out anyway post-game, wouldn’t you?

yeah i mean for the duration of the game

She means this part.

Where exactly does the "scum slip" part come into this?

[Moment]

i have never laughed so hard reading a mafia thread in i think all my life

[Moment]

I don't want to "shut you down", I just wanted to know what on Earth you were talking about. My saying that there isn't actually a scumslip or contradiction isn't something I

want

to say, it's just the truth as I see it.

[Moment]

Yo @Momentum @Brian Skies
kokichi red pm yes no maybe so?

It's something I've been considering.

[Moment]

It bothers me that Matt isn't on this wagon.

that's fair. for full disclosure, ive been spending the last day re-thinking my reads because im pretty positive my initial assessments were wrong and that my reads are off. i'll post more of my thoughts on this later.

i'm not super opposed to this wagon but i don't think it's really going to garner that much information, regardless of the flip. i'll hammer on it before the deadline if we need.

Matt, would you mind elaborating on why you weren't opposed to the Mylo wagon?

[Moment]

Oh, I kind of skipped over the Maria discussion. Having read back through the game during the night, I didn't think that scum Maria would talk about the Mylo wagon the way she did. I'd imagine that scum, seeing their partner go down, would almost always choose to try to gain some kind of credit from it rather than make a defense that would certainly be futile. Some of these quotes should show what I'm referring to:

Spoiler:

Sakura I still have as a scumlean but not as hard as before because I feel like she's voting anything that walks.

yeah that's what i'm doing, kinda.
Dunno why that lowers your scumlean tho.

I don't remember you being as reckless as scum.

Also the mylongninja wagon is bad it's a 3 person lurker that will give no info regardless of the flip.

Will vote Mylo if it reaches 16 hours or less and then when that flips town Brain Muffin and Dunn all go in the grinder

If you explain yours I'll happily do the same. Even though I've done that about twice already (besides muffin)
Pedit: Mylo is the easy lurker lynch that scum are going to grab onto for a free mislynch. Nothing Mylo has done looks that towny or scummy to me but the way votes are happening it's telling all in itself.

Like I kid you not i'd bet money scum prob in there head be like "oh shit partner getting wagoned let's wagon mylo" I don't see Mylo flipping scum although it is a great info lynch to see where everyone makes an excuse to scumread next so I don't mind them dying per say
Pedit: I already explain mine kind of to friend!
Pedit2: Never said that

The fact wagons have tried to get started and then lead back to Mylo is telling in itself that we were wagoning scum most likely at one point and then it just went back to Mylo but hey go nuts and wagon town I'll hear all your excuses D2

In contrast to scum betraying their knowledge of everyone's alignment, I feel like comments such as these betray a

lack

of informedness.

[Moment]

that said, he was nowhere near my top scum-read and he seemed like the definition of an easy lynch, which is why i assumed his lynch wouldn't give us much information or interactions to read off of.

Who were some of those stronger scumreads that you had? Why didn't you mention preferring them over the Mylo wagon if you thought that he was just an easy lynch?

[Moment]

Alright, then. For the sake of disclosure, I got bored and decided to do a bit of reading and came across a previous game of yours where the lynch of a lurker was a hot topic and you had this to say, among other things:

Spoiler:

I feel as though there's been a pretty clear misinterpretation on what I've said versus what you guys are trying to make it look like I'm saying.

Can lurkers be scum?

Absolutely.

If someone is lurking, does this mean they are scum?

No.

Currently, the way I see it - there is no logical justification to vote BJC other than for the idea of a liability lynch (which I disagree with strongly) or because he is lurking. Lynching someone solely on the basis of lurking is not a good idea. I am not, nor have I ever implied that because certain people (like Aptil!) are lurking, that they are town. This shouldn't be hard logic to follow, thank you.

And in terms of the bigger fish I mean that literally as I have indicated, I think that BJC is very likely to be town and there

are

better things to do than vote someone out of policy. As for the mafia? Dunno, I'm working on it.

It made me wonder if this previous viewpoint was a contradiction to being okay with Mylo's lynch here despite his low amount of content to actually go off of when forming a read.

Do you have any previous experience with Myloninja or do you know his meta in some way? I suppose I should've asked this earlier.

[Moment]

Well, as long as TBG, Katsuki, and zMuffinMan are still "playing" the game like they are, my list of suspects pretty much just boils down to Kokichi, matt and maybe Spiffeh. So...

VOTE: projectmatt

------

I was thinking about your Maria buddying comments D1 and now I understand why nothing she did actually looked like buddying to me. Because, it just seemed quite natural to me and I doubt I would have even considered it, had you not suggested it first. Usually if I’m being pocketed, I’ll get pinged in some way. There will be something about the way they’re reacting to me that either seems insincere or over the top, and I didn’t get that sense at all from Maria.

Sure.

[Moment]

I wasn't saying you were.

[Moment]

I noticed something curious in the ruleset for this game. Anyone else notice it?

[Moment]

This game is just become a meme at this rate.

I mean fun and everything is fine, but all the memeing is making it hard for me to sort the stances from the noise.

"I'm scum" "No i'm scum"

All these is making my job harder.
Sorry but if this is how it's gonna be i rather not play.

The fact that everyone just seems to go along with these memes is making me think im the one in the wrong for even daring to go "No fun allowed" so...

Wow, you have no idea how much I can relate, especially with the second quote.

[Moment]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MariaR

[Moment]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MariaR

it was at this moment that i died inside.

Sorry to do that to you. I think I've got a lot to say but I'm not really looking forward to writing it all. I guess the summary of it would be that I think matt's recent content has been town enough for me to want to look elsewhere, and having reflected on my own reading for townreading MariaR I think I was overthinking things.

[Moment]

Brian, talk with me a bit. Let's say (for now) that matt is town, that Dunnstral is right about Maria, and that people can read between the lines when it comes to Katsuki and MuffinMan. Who's scum? Ankamius? Kokichi? Spiffeh?

[Moment]

moment give more detail on your sr on me. If you voted me at the start of the day it would've been a huge towntell but the fact you do it after I made a comment on it is *perks brow* So I wanna know how you got to "Maria town" to "Maria is scum"

I had a lot of calm time to reflect on my own reasoning. Even now I'm still not sure whether I'm overthinking things or if I should just take them at face value.

[Moment]

(For the record, I still think her trying to pocket Nancy Drew and the conversation surrounding that is also scum-indicative.)

[Moment]

Brian, talk with me a bit. Let's say (for now) that matt is town, that Dunnstral is right about Maria, and that people can read between the lines when it comes to Katsuki and MuffinMan. Who's scum? Ankamius? Kokichi? Spiffeh?

I'm quoting this again and putting it out there to anyone.

[Moment]

I think Ankamius would make a better investigation target.

[Moment]

Why exactly do you all scumread Muffins anyways? The Nancy Drew push?

[Moment]

Why exactly do you all scumread Muffins anyways? The Nancy Drew push?

It’s not my push. I didn’t even lead it. I endorse it however.

I was referring to his push on you.

[Moment]

Why does mafia neighborize their nightkill?

Didn’t Cupcake say he was neighborized D1? That means the action occurred in different phases so I don’t think it would be that weird.

I also don’t buy that Katsuki was shot because no one would do that

No, Katsuki said he was neighborized last night, not during the day. If you don't buy that Katsuki was shot, what do you think actually happened? It's possible that there's some blocking role out there, but I think if that were the case that person probably should have claimed already. It's possible that there's some other protective role out there that hasn't claimed yet, yes, but taking that

possibility

as reason to disregard the information that we already have seems fallacious. If it should come out later that there

are

other possibilities for what happened last night,

then

it would make sense to reconsider. Until then, it seems needlessly stubborn to remain on Muffins.

Unless you think that Brian is fakeclaiming as well...?

[Moment]

We have roughtly 24 hours from this point to lynch so if I want to get any sort of outcome that I'm happy with I should probably start talking.

First order of business: if you're voting Muffins right now, you really probably shouldn't.

Even if

there's some scenario where he's actually scum here (which I can't really imagine at the moment after all of the claims), it would be stupid to lynch him today. The opportunity cost is far too high. If multiple people are fakeclaiming, given time the truth will be revealed. Until then, it seems to me that the potential payoff from the theoretical scum lynch is far, far outweighed by the downsides of Muffins theoretically flipping town.

If there are people who still dispute this then I'd like to hear their ideas of exactly how that would work; who's lying and why and all that. I'm serious; I would be interested to hear and respond to any of those theories if anyone has them. Until then, I'd unvote.

[Moment]

Second order of business: if not Muffins, then who? My main preference is still MariaR, but from the amount of people who seem to townread her I doubt that I convince enough people to actually make that a viable wagon; at least, for today.

Of what seems to be the two viable alternatives, I think I would prefer to lynch Prof Fridays. Though I don't townread TBG, I haven't really gotten all that many scum pings from what I've read there. In contrast, Ankamius played more to her scumgame and never really actually contributed anything before replacing out. The only thing that might come to mind in her favor would be whether or not scum would talk about the Mylo wagon like she did, but I've already overthought that once before and I'm not keen on doing it again. Of course, none of this is helped by Prof Fridays also not really doing much in his short time here.

Either way, of the wagons that seem viable at the moment, that one seems like the best to me.

VOTE: Prof Fridays

[Moment]

dunn spiff has pretty obviously read and has the same opinion as me on the matter

What is that opinion, exactly?

[Moment]

Are you saying that scum Muffins neighborized the same person that scum shot last night?

[Moment]

Ankamius was 100% not scum so prof fridays is by far the worst vote rn

Why was Ank town and who should we be voting?

[Moment]

for muffins to be scum, it would not only require a scum neighborizer which is ???

but it requires katsuki, brian, and muffin to all be lying rn

On further reflection, I think that it would actually only require Katsuki to be lying; about both the cop innocent and the neighborhood, as he was the first one to bring it up. That being said, any potential motivation for him to be lying seems nonsensical, and there's evidence that his innocent is real (as Brian pointed out earlier).

[Moment]

Even if Katsuki were lying about everything for some reason just to protect his best buddy Muffins, I'm not sure where - if the innocent were removed - scum!Muffins comes in in the first place. What's the case there? That he was being useless? That he was being antagonistic and mean to people and using caps? I guess the Nancy Drew push could be scum indicative.

Like, even ignoring all claims there are people I'd still lynch before Muffins.

(Or maybe this is a massive gambit from a 4 person Katsuki-Muffins-Brian-Mylo scumteam?)

[Moment]

any potential motivation for him to be lying seems nonsensical

lmao

Why don't you enlighten me? I'm open to being convinced I'm wrong.

[Moment]

Scum Neighborizer Poisoner?
Nah even if i stretch it like that it doesnt make sense.

Thoughts on voting TBG vs Prof Fridays?

[Moment]

I was more wondering why you're voting one over the other, but... okay?

[Moment]

VOTE: Moment

Don't like him/her or MariaR rn. Hard townreading Katsuki, Brian Skies, and Dunnstral. Town lean on zMuffin, Wisdom.

Mind elaborating on the reads on me and Maria? I agree with you on Maria, and I'm interested in what pinged you about me.

The wagon on me is bad and seems opportunist. It's hard to catch up on the 100+ pages I've missed, so naturally I've been quieter.

I'm voting you more off of Ankamius' play, if it means anything to you.

[Moment]

Well, Ankamius' play, scumreading it more than TBG's play, and the fact that I don't think I can convince people to vote Maria in however many hours we have left.

[Moment]

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

I tracked him to the kill.

------

There's no poisoner

If you're just saying that based off of the lack of two kills, I might not be so sure.

[Moment]

The possibility of dueling town wagons yesterday made me think that someone who seemingly didn't care about the outcome was more likely to be scum.

I'm interested in Kokichi's explanation if he has one but I think the reality is that he's just scum.

[Moment]

Do you hard claim this. Yes or no. No going back.

Is that legally binding? Hold on, let me call my lawyer first.

------

(he cant have been poisoned since he was a doc)

Uh, how do you know docs can't be poisoned?

At first I thought it might have been a joke about real-life doctors or something, but if you check the setup it's correct. Doctors and posioners can't be poisoned.

[Moment]

By the way, I got cut off from making a post by the locking of the thread yesterday. I'm not sure how relevant it still is given what's happened since then, but here it is:

I don't see why people are scumreading TBG? Take away the fact a few people I scumread are on the wagon I don't get what he's done that's scummy? The post restriction? What is it

What happened to your Ankamius scumread? For someone who supposedly scumreads Prof Fridays (or at least, his slot) and doesn't understand why TBG is scum, you haven't really made any effort to get your scumread lynched over your not-scumread.

------

VOTE: Moment

Don't like him/her or MariaR rn. Hard townreading Katsuki, Brian Skies, and Dunnstral. Town lean on zMuffin, Wisdom.

Mind elaborating on the reads on me and Maria? I agree with you on Maria, and I'm interested in what pinged you about me.

The short of it is you remind me of scum!me. I think a lot of what you've said recently is rather fluffy without all that much 'figuring out', and I still think the wagon on me is bad and poorly reasoned through.

Really? And here I thought I was being less verbose lately. Would you mind pointing to a post in specific that made you feel this way? I really feel like my recent posts have been mostly to the point.

[Moment]

Moment do you hard claim yes or no

What if I say no? I don't really see the difference, personally. I'd still like you to claim.

[Moment]

Yes, very convincing.

[Moment]

I'm not sure how anyone could have gotten me admitting that I don't have a guilty out of what I've said. To be clear: I haven't said that.

[Moment]

What are the reasons to scumread him in the first place that are apparently so strong that it takes an innocent to deny? I don't townread muffins, but like I've said; his play doesn't scream "scum" to me.

[Moment]

On an unrelated note, does anyone else think that a Non-Consecutive Night Doctor seems somewhat weak for a main character? At least, it seems that way to me, in comparison to the main characters from Minuet's Trio.

------
P-Edit: Isn't that in reference to Nancy Drew?

[Moment]

If you're dying at the end of the day, is there any harm in fullclaiming?

[Moment]

If you're dying at the end of the day, is there any harm in fullclaiming?

I already more or less fullclaimed it it wasn't clear.

My role name is neighbourizing jack of all trades. I'm DEEMO if it wasn't already obvious from my avatar. The role name is rather silly though as I just have 3 different one-shot abilities that all are cop shots.

What are those three cop shots, and what's the nature of your guilty on Maria (i.e. an actual Cop guilty, a Gunsmith "has guns" results, a rolecop "Poisoner" result, etc.)?

[Moment]

If you're dying at the end of the day, is there any harm in fullclaiming?

Are you going to hard claim or no. Why are you scared?

Funny - I could say those exact same words to you!

[Moment]

I'm a gunsmith. Kokichi Oma has a gun. I thought I'd try to catch him in a fake claim.

[Moment]

we have three investigative claims

Somebody is fake claiming

Not that I'm necessarily saying that the three people who have results on them are all scum, but I'm not sure we should disregard the possibility of a four-person scumteam. Based on what FakeGod said in the dead thread of Minuet's Trio and from the flipped main character, it's entirely possible that this game's balance is different than expected and as such it's 13:4.

Not

all that

relevant right now, but it's worth keeping in mind.

[Moment]

hm. So kokichi and nos have guns, meaning the poisoner isnt in there

Assuming they're both scum.

[Moment]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MariaR

[Moment]

hm. So kokichi and nos have guns, meaning the poisoner isnt in there

Assuming they're both scum.

Err, wait. Nevermind. Not sure what I was thinking here.

I should slow down.

------

gunsmiths have guns, poisoners and docs don't, and it's a mass gunsmith game is what i'm assuming

(and there's probably a scum gunsmith)

My thoughts exactly.

[Moment]

Would there really be a scum gunsmith? Trying to find the balance aspect with poisoner and roleblocker

Why do you think scum have a roleblocker?

Dead

1. Myloninja13, who was
   Miracle of Daybreak
   , and
   Mafia

   Roleblocker
   , has been
   lynched
   in
   Day 1
   .

[Moment]

Can we all agree that Wisdom and Katsuki's guilties are correct so that I can have been three for three on Day 1?

No need to apologize. My top three scumreads would be Nosferatu, Maria, and Myloninja, in no specific order.

[Moment]

Anyways, I was going to ask about this earlier, before Katsuki's guilty; Dunnstral, would you mind elaborating on your townread on MariaR? I think it was Spiffeh who asked for reasons for her being scum and I wanted to talk a little about that and I think it would be useful to also hear why people townread her in the first place.

------

Katsuki's guilties are correct

dude. Still believing katsuki?

Well, that post was mostly a joke, but I'm not sure why I should be

ignoring

Katsuki here. Even if I take it that he's lying about his guilty, I still believe that MariaR is scum; it doesn't actually change anything for me when it comes to my willingness to vote her.

[Moment]

We wait for nos to claim

What's to be gained by waiting? If he's scum he's just going to lie anyways. I would start writing about Maria but I'd like to hear what Dunnstral has to say first, and I think I'm going to sleep soon.

[Moment]

When you flip we're ignoring your reads - because that's what they are, they're not investigative results and you're being toxic by insisting that it is

Why? I think we should consider the opportunity cost of disregarding Katsuki.

I'm trying to approach this from an objective standpoint despite my preexisting scumread on Maria. I don't think it's naive of me to say any of this.

I don't have time right now to respond fully to your other post, but hopefully I should soon.

[Moment]

Just do me a favor and completely ignore katsuki today, lynch someone else, then see what Katsuki flips, then we can talk about it

Suppose Katsuki dies and flips exactly as he's claimed. Does that actually change anything for you? I don't get the sense that it would. That, along with the possibility that I die during the night make me somewhat averse to just putting it off a day.

[Moment]

If he flips cop I'll look at Maria

I don't think he's going to

He's already said that he won't explicitly flip cop (Neighbourizing JOAT, if I recall correctly). I'm not sure how this is meant to be convincing me to wait until tomorrow.

[Moment]

Nosferatu, why are you voting Kokichi?

[Moment]

Hm. The person who claimed this guilty asking why you're voting there doesn't give you pause?

[Moment]

OK. But I don't, so I'm not going to let us lynch MariaR. We can sit here until deadline and see who gets rushed up or we can talk about other people, your call

By my count I'm pretty sure there are enough people willing to vote Maria for a lynch to go through there. It depends on how 2 out of 3 of Nancy, Nosferatu (who has been interestingly silent on the subject of MariaR; maybe I really could have been three for three?), and Matt are willing to vote.

[Moment]

I also would still like this answered, for what it's worth.

I don't see why people are scumreading TBG? Take away the fact a few people I scumread are on the wagon I don't get what he's done that's scummy? The post restriction? What is it

What happened to your Ankamius scumread? For someone who supposedly scumreads Prof Fridays (or at least, his slot) and doesn't understand why TBG is scum, you haven't really made any effort to get your scumread lynched over your not-scumread.

[Moment]

@Nosferatu

: When did you go from believing Katsuki's claim to not believing it?

[Moment]

Maria was my Night 1 check. She has no guns.

@Mod: Could you prod projectmatt and Prof Fridays?

[Moment]

Huh.

[Moment]

Ugh, lost a post I was typing to some copy + paste shenanigans. Here's the short version of it: I'm not sure whether or not I want to unvote yet. I also don't entirely understand the apparent importance of pre-announcing and organizing our checks; I doubt that anyone will be caught out in a lie from it.

[Moment]

Ugh, lost a post I was typing to some copy + paste shenanigans. Here's the short version of it: I'm not sure whether or not I want to unvote yet. I also don't entirely understand the apparent importance of pre-announcing and organizing our checks; I doubt that anyone will be caught out in a lie from it.

to clear people when we lynch poisoner?

Yes, I understand the purpose of dividing people into groups when it comes to having a gun and not having a gun, going off of the commonly accepted setup spec. It just seemed to me like people were taking the organization of the investigations more seriously than seemed warranted.

[Moment]

ok

Meanwhile, I gave numerous reasons why MariaR is town, people said I was wrong and moved on

I was going to try to respond to that alongside my own reasons for Maria being scum, but it began to look like it wasn't necessary.

[Moment]

Sure. I think I'll be doing this in pieces, both because I've been feeling less verbose lately and because I think it'll just be easier to digest.

It began back with her strange focus on Nancy Drew early in the game.

Spoiler: Pocketing?

And while I'm on the subject of voicing perhaps somewhat far-fetched concerns, I think MariaR may have been trying (is still trying to?) pocket Nancy Drew. I first noticed it upon my first readthrough of the thread where it seemed like much of what Maria was saying was engaging with Nancy. When I put it like that it doesn't sound so bad - especially as Ms. Drew is quite the content producer - but I think that reviewing Maria's ISO may help illustrate my point for anyone interested.

To give a few quotes to illustrate my point:

I have nancy as town
my dunnstral read

and that's it.

Who else are you looking at nancy

I believe it was these two quotes that first caused me to realize this while reading through. Something about the singularity of the read as well as the question made it look to me like Maria had the goal of tying to get Nancy to strongly townread her; anyone who played in or has read Minuet's Trio (or, I assume, other games with Nancy) should realize that it's not much of a difficult task.

I decided not to bring this up initially in order to observe if the pattern of behavior would continue, and I think that it did with this quote:

Nancy Drew is pretty transparent town like it almost hurts
Wouldn't you agree @MeowriaR

I sure would.

The lack of response to anything between this post and the last post in Maria's ISO "pings" me in a way that I find hard to describe. Perhaps that goes back to what I was thinking about earlier.


Any thoughts?

I don't think that a town player typically devotes time to getting someone else in specific to townread them instead of trying to find scum, no. I also don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

No buddying and pocketing is 2 dif things. I was trying to buddy Nancy and get ideas off her because I townread her. If she townreads me great that's a bonus but Nancy isn't a player that town reading me or scumreading me would make me perk my brow unlike someone like maybe Dunn or Kokichi

Hm, I think that's pretty transparently false, as a look at your ISOs show. You only ever asked a single question to her: the nonspecific "Who else are you looking at", which was never followed up on. Yes, you

talked

to her, but in my view more of your content was about making a show of interacting with her and having a strong townread on her in order to pocket her.

Like I pointed out earlier, I think a post like this doesn't come from someone who just wants to "bounce ideas off of someone"; I think it comes from someone who wants to make a show of their read. (Especially as considering the timing between this post and the last in your ISO and the content ignored between those two posts; for someone who claims to have wanted to get ideas from her, you certainly ignored a lot of what she posted)

Nancy Drew is pretty transparent town like it almost hurts
Wouldn't you agree @MeowriaR

I sure would.

But of course, I don't expect to convince you that you're scum; what's important is what other people think. So: thoughts, anyone?

I still don't think it's true that Maria was trying to bounce ideas off of Nancy or anything of the sort. Also, looking back, I have to wonder; why Nancy in specific? I would imagine there would be other people in this game that Maria could have asked to get ideas off of; people she may have more history with.

[Moment]

I think the next thing to consider would be the Mylo interactions. This is something that other people actually noticed more than I did.

Spoiler: Purrcocet

sure?
i think town maria would do the buddy thing but shes been behaving in a scummy manner
not sure what to feel about the other inconsistencies
like she scumreads dunn for the mylo lynch when literally everyone on that wagon has said it's a pressure vote and they're not going to lynch him so that doesn't make sense

Spoiler: Brian Skies

Also, for the record, I have no idea what Maria's issue with me is or why she can't fathom me voting a contentless lurker.

Thoughts on Maria being scum and the whole pocketing thing, Brian?

What pocketing thing? Nancy? Idk.

This isn't really what I expect from Maria when I play with her, although she did state she was trying something new.

I'm mostly curious why she had an issue with me trying to wagon Mylo (who I skimmed and thought the content looked okay, but didn't really see anything that convinced me he was town).

also, do you think your comment to maria yielded anything worthwhile? has your read on her progressed at all since that point?

I think she's scummy, and would feel more confident in it if Mylo were scum.

Beyond that, not really, because I haven't had a chance to interact with her since.

WALK ME THRU MARIASCUM BS

I DONT KNOW ANY BRIANS ONLY ISSAC

She's scum because she had zero reason to oppose my lurker wagon in the manner that she did and the posts that Moment was townreading for 'betraying a lack of information' or whatever it was actually seems like she was trying to fearmonger the players on the Mylo wagon so she can derail it.

In fact, I think the entire conversation between Brian Skies and Maria - starting from about here - is worth rereading.

I'm sure there are more quotes from other people noticing similarly strange behavior that I simply missed. For the record: everything I said about why I didn't focus on Maria at the start of Day 2 was completely fabricated. This was before I considered the possibility that my "no gun" result didn't mean she was town.

Here are those quotes that I was looking at earlier, if anyone cares to look at them. Like I said, I'm feeling less verbose than usual, so there's no play-by-play commentary; the long and short of it is exactly as other people have pointed out previously. I find it hard to imagine that Maria, if town, had that much of a reason to interact with the Mylo wagon in the way that she did. If someone can pull some kind of history of her doing the same thing with regards to lurker wagons in other games I would be interested to see that; if no such history exists, I would wager that that's meaningful.

Spoiler: Maria talking about the Mylo wagon

Sakura I still have as a scumlean but not as hard as before because I feel like she's voting anything that walks.

yeah that's what i'm doing, kinda.
Dunno why that lowers your scumlean tho.

I don't remember you being as reckless as scum.

Also the mylongninja wagon is bad it's a 3 person lurker that will give no info regardless of the flip.

Will vote Mylo if it reaches 16 hours or less and then when that flips town Brain Muffin and Dunn all go in the grinder

If you explain yours I'll happily do the same. Even though I've done that about twice already (besides muffin)
Pedit: Mylo is the easy lurker lynch that scum are going to grab onto for a free mislynch. Nothing Mylo has done looks that towny or scummy to me but the way votes are happening it's telling all in itself.

Like I kid you not i'd bet money scum prob in there head be like "oh shit partner getting wagoned let's wagon mylo" I don't see Mylo flipping scum although it is a great info lynch to see where everyone makes an excuse to scumread next so I don't mind them dying per say
Pedit: I already explain mine kind of to friend!
Pedit2: Never said that

The fact wagons have tried to get started and then lead back to Mylo is telling in itself that we were wagoning scum most likely at one point and then it just went back to Mylo but hey go nuts and wagon town I'll hear all your excuses D2

[Moment]

No comment.

[Moment]

If I was going to pocket someone I would pocket someone that's easy to pocket.

Actually, what makes you think Nancy Drew is hard to pocket? I'm not debating whether or not she is, I just want to know what makes you think that she is.

[Moment]

I don't think it's terribly unlikely that Prof Fridays is scum. Spiffeh seemed to disagree though (at least, regarding ankamius' play), so I'd like to see what he has to say there.

[Moment]

honestly ima make a bold statement and say we can lock that slot scum just for ank's read on mylo

What about Maria?

Also, Purrcocet does have a gun.

[Moment]

Someone call me if lynching in Prof Fridays, MariaR and Nosferatu doesn't win the game. Oh, and don't lynch Muffins. I think he's (probably) not scum.

By the way, crazy idea I've been considering that I feel like just floating out there: scum Purrcocet?

[Moment]

Nosferatu - Man of relatively few words but has remained engaged. Slight town for me.

Why? Just because of "engagement"?

------

I'll call you

Prof Fridays looks like town in his recent reaction to pressure - MariaR you know my read there, Nosferatu softed his investigative result on day 1 which is a weird angle to take if he were scum faking gunsmith

In order:
1) Why? Mind elaborating on that? It didn't really do anything for me; not like matt's reaction did.
2) Gotcha.
3) Mind quoting that for me?

[Moment]

I will agree that I don't think that scum in Prof Fridays' situation would claim Vanilla Town, but I think it's incorrect to give everyone a free pass because of that. It would make me willing to lynch elsewhere first, at the very least (elsewhere, say, on MariaR).

With regards to those quotes, they don't do anything at all for me. It's more of a reactionary comment than a deliberate crumb and I don't actually see how this specifically comes from a town gunsmith over a scum gunsmith, or even just a scum player faking a townread. What's more, it ignores the possibility of Spiffeh being the scum poisoner; that's not entirely unreasonable, of course, but I would consider it towny if he seemed to consider that somewhere along the line.

[Moment]

And what are u expecting the poisoner to claim?

Something other than Vanilla Town that doesn't have a gun, presumably. Hadn't really given a lot of thought to the specifics. I'm not sure how much creativity it would really require, if any at all.

[Moment]

First of all, all 3 MCs are dead, we have 5 gunsmiths running around, and a dead JOAT with presumably cop similar abilities.
I dunno but it feels like Poisoner claims VT here 100% of the time.

Sure. Like I said; it wasn't a huge indicator to me. I will say, however, that Minuet's Trio had the main characters, the "mass" role as well as one other town role separate from both of those; it's not entirely unreasonable. Although, as I type that, I realize that that "other" town role is probably just Dunnstral.

Eh, yeah. I suppose it's probably not really indicative one way or the other actually.

[Moment]

1) Why? Mind elaborating on that? It didn't really do anything for me; not like matt's reaction did.

It looks more like they're resigned to their lynch and are giving out last reads than they're trying to set up associatives or change the lynch

That can come from town or scum. In fact, it might even be

scum

indicative if Prof Fridays is a town player that normally fights tooth and nail against getting mislynch.

------

Can't claim doctor because we already got an MC gated Doctor.
Can't claim poisoner because obviously
Can't claim Gunsmith because no gun
Can't claim Cop because no gun and an MC with a gated cop shot (or more).
Can't claim any other investigative because they'd likely be found lying sooner rather than later.
Can't claim BP because we lynch them anyways.

Seriously what are you expecting a scum poisoner to claim here.

I already said that I hadn't given it much specific thought; I get the point.

[Moment]

So why do you feel nosferatu is scum?

Seemingly inconsistent or made up positions, the forced posting from the beginning of the game, and a realization that some things that I was townreading him for earlier - mainly frustration with Nancy Drew- would probably still come from scum in the same manner. That's the short version of it, at least.

Oh, and also the way that he dealt with the guilty on MariaR. This isn't an associative read, it's a scumtell that I've found myself guilty of sometimes. If you go back and look, he just didn't really talk about it at all. You could call it TMI on knowing that it's a fake guilty and being awkward to deal with it or you could call it a partner associative (I'm not calling it one way or the other), but either way I think that sort of skirting around an issue is a scum reaction.

[Moment]

The fact you're just letting a prof friday lynch go through thinking they're town and I am clearly pushing it doesn't raise alarm bells to you? If I were you I'd be calling that wagon off I doubt is bussing right now since the other scum is likely in gunsmiths so what are you doing right now? This is a really big scum claim

Where did I say that I townread Prof Fridays? (Don't bother looking, I didn't say that.) I said the exact opposite about one or two posts earlier.

If it still means anything to anyone, I consider reading comprehension failures like this to be scum-indicative. I know that's worded in a rude way but I couldn't really come up with any other alternative wording that still got my point across; I don't intend it in a rude way.

As for bussing, it had occurred to me. Going off of memory, I think if Prof Fridays were to flip scum that his partner would be on his wagon, just based on townreading everyone off-wagon (barring someone I'm forgetting).

[Moment]

Kokichi and moment can't both be scum and the way moment is reacting to the prof wagon doesn't seem like partners to me it feels like him knowing prof is town and trying to set up a ML for me the next day. So where the fuck am I incorrect

It's not exactly a huge secret that I've been trying to get you lynched. As an accusation I'm not even sure exactly how to respond to that. Yes, I would like you lynched. I'm not using Prof Fridays to set it up - I'm not sure why I would need to do that or even how I would do that.

------

You can see at the start moment goes "Prof could be scum" in his very first post. So why isn't he voting?

A vague sense of ambivalence. A desire to lynch you more. And yeah, still waiting for Spiffeh. It didn't seem (and still doesn't seem) like my vote was/is necessary for his lynch.

Because he's waiting for Spiffy? But that doesn't make much sense to wait for a scumread to voice there thoughts.

I don't scumread Spiffeh. I'd love to go into more detail but I'm posting from phone right now. Those posts you quoted were from ~Day 1.

[Moment]

Neither of those quotes are "I townread Prof Fridays". In fact, those were things I said while directly arguing with Dunnstral over why I -don't- townread him.

Did other people think that that's what those posts meant? I don't think this problem is on my wording's end, but it could be.

[Moment]

Moment I just don't get the same vibes from before he outright locked Nancy as scum cased them and never left them pushed it over and over etc.
So we have this game case me check. push me over and over...um no check he just kinda says I'm scum and is doing nothing about it. Sure he cased me but I don't get the fire like the other game. I don't get why town moment is letting me live right now when from his pov shouldn't I be the poisoner I know for dam sure I wouldn't let my poisoner read just run free. He's kinda taken a back seat and I just don't get why that's happening here. Along with the stuff I cased before I'm fairly sure moment is scum. What makes you think they're town

Huh, someone other than Nancy is overstating my scumread on her from Minuet's Trio. Anyways:

1) It's patently false that I pushed Nancy in that game more than I pushed you here.
2) Letting you live? Letting you run free? Make no mistakes - I would still like you lynched. I guess lately it's just been kind of hard for me to give it my all.

[Moment]

Huh, looks like I was wrong, this might actually need my vote.

VOTE: Prof Fridays

[Moment]

Still waiting to hear from Moment, as her sudden vote swap to me seems suspect.

Waiting to hear what? Despite my self-admitted concision recently, I was under the impression that I was pretty upfront when it came to my reads. Does my scumread on you come as a surprise or something?

[Moment]

Why not spiffy

Why the hesitation? Don't you scumread Prof Fridays?

[Moment]

That's quite the confidence.

[Moment]

What's got you so confident in that scumteam to the point where everyone else in the game is a townread? I thought I might have been tunnelling some reads and even I'm still willing to lynch outside of my main scumteam targets. I mean, this is quite the shift from what you seemed to be saying just a bit earlier, when (at least, speaking from memory here) you thought Prof Fridays had a pretty good shot at being scum.

Is it those quotes you pulled up a bit ago?

[Moment]

VOTE: Muffin
Since Spiffy isn't happening.

Huh? Isn't everyone else a townread given that me and Spiffeh are scum? Why is Prof a townread because of preflip associations but muffins isn't?