Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Creature]

Mind control can't be used for leader votes either.

[Nancy Drew 39]

p sure you were supposed to vote me. @Nancy

I’m pretty sure I was supposed to vote Ausaka because she was supposed to dayvig.

[Sando]

You can take one super power and use another one, you already own, SS can be used together with another superpower

Nero: Ausuka, Sakura, Tora, Nancy
Ausuka: Nero, Creature, Drixx, Gamma, hebichan, Kokichi, Math, Nosferatu, Sando, Theta, TW. (Just remove whoever gets lynched)

I kind of want Nero to be main, because that might remove attention towards trying to kill Tora.

Found it.

No Nancy, here's the list, I and others quoted it towards EOD specifically for this reason. You're either scum or you gamethrew.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I voted Ausaka last night, not Nero. Wasn’t I supposed to do that?

because she was supposed to dayvig safely and Nero was supposed to be the backup?

Nope, you were supposed to vote Nero, it was pretty clear.

Can you please stop being an ass while we're at it, you're either scum or don't understand the gamestate, either way you shouldn't be being an ass towards people.

No, I’m very sure it was Ausuka, which I did.

Stop fucking insulting me or don’t fucking talk to me!

I don’t have to listen to this. I did what I thought I was supposed to and more to help town in this game. I totally don’t fucking deserve any of this crap.

[MathBlade]

but I'm town reading Math too based on mechanics. Math needs 3 votes and assuming he can't vote himself there was only two scum that could vote him or he's not scum and all 3 scum voted him. Right?

Since you were off the mislynch, Math could only be leader over you by getting more votes. Even if you had been on the mislynch you would still win ties because Math was leader previously.

My only other thought is that scum have a factional ability of

Mind Control: Target another player. You may move their vote once before the end of the next Day Phase. You may change its position by PM'ing the Mod (me).

that works on the leader votes, idk.

I really think that scum only has a kill as a factional ability. It otherwise breaks the entire point of the setup. Earn a plurality of votes to gain powers for you and whomever you choose.

I don’t really think that is the case Drixx.

Mainly because it forces town imho to play antiwin con to do anything. Plus if they don’t give powers to the townread then it is a scum claim. With all the good powers and circle jerk potential scum have to have something.

Except no they don't because we saw power negate and petrify go off last night and we were operating under the assumption that only one possible scum had snuck in under Titus the night Ank died, but what we observe tells us differently.

And of course the fact that you are leader means that at least two people were in the very trusted group tasked with ensuring Nero was the leader if Ausuka got killed during the night.

The entire way the game has played out demonstrates that the setup rewards scum for fooling town. (Which is the actual basic point of mafia; consider mountainous for example. This is a themed powered setup which effectively mimics the basic game really well in terms of what it rewards and punishes).

Who claimed to be negated? I missed that.

Even if so, it could be quite possible that it is freezing and petrify which means Nancy takes freezing and Tor takes petrify.

We have been operating under assumptions that Titus as scum killed to give a power to someone in the PoE. It could have just as easily been Tor. Mainly the kills seem to serve a narrative until this moment.

Furthermore fooling town is just one way to play scum. The other is to just let town eat itself alive.

I think we are in the former but I know really good scums who do the latter. Forcing scum to not play UTR is weird.

[Drixx]

unpetrify sakura, nancy

If Math is the one who petrified Sakura and all signs point to that, then you know I am powerless to heal tomorrow. Do you really think scum!Math doesn’t petrify again tonight?

I am the only one who can reverse this? What if scum has an echo? Then, there will be 1 NK and 2 petrifies. Don’t you honestly think it better that I wait until we can safely lynch him?

I will obviously do what town wishes but I honestly don’t think it’s the best plan for town, to have their healer powerless to reverse any possible petrifications the following night. We can’t kill Math now, which we could have had you waited until either no lynch, night or the following day to use your bomb.

So, if the majority actually think my healing Sakura now and being powerless tomorrow is best, I’ll of course do it but I won’t be able to reverse any more possible petrifications until D7, at the earliest.

It's irrelevant when you do it. You're making a specious argument here. You're literally arguing "Scum could petrify TWO MORE tonight AND KILL SOMEONE, so you guys should let me leave someone petrified until AFTER all that happens".

Time to put up.

So let's assume that dying removes your vote.
So let's assume that Petrify removes your vote.

They don't.

And from a later quote neither does death. So we now have FOUR votes for Nero, with Nancy supposed to vote there and playing dumb and pretending she didn't know she was supposed to vote nero. That gives us a pool of: {

Ausuka

, Tora, Gamma, Nancy, Sakura}

Literally the entire scum team has to be in that pool or else Math couldn't be elected leader.

Ausuka plus any two others in that list and there's only two left who could have voted for Math. Vote would be Nero 3 and Math 2.
Ausuka plus one other and then it's Math 3, Nero 2.

This heavily implies that Math is town.

p sure you were supposed to vote me. @Nancy

She was. I don't buy the act that she didn't know that. I doubt you do either. It took her WAY too long to claim she voted elsewhere. Pages after I had already put her in the pool of voting Math repeatedly.

Math doesn't win a 3v3 tie against Nero because of the tie rules.

So let's assume that Petrify removes your vote. That leaves {Gamma, Tora}.

Math still can't be scum because Math needs THREE votes to get elected due to losing ties against Nero.

Petrify does not stop the vote, I just confirmed with mod.

So we have 3 "claimed" votes for Nero in Gamma, Tora and

Sakura

(we just kinda have to assume town aren't stupid and will follow the plan at this point).

Scum voting for town can't even beat that, so there absolutely MUST be a liar in those 3.

See above. Sanity check the logic please.

So let's assume that dying removes your vote.
So let's assume that Petrify removes your vote.

They don't.

@Drixx, Petrify isn’t a day action.

I never said it was.

Nancy would be locked up to the heal Sakura gambit and iirc Petrify says target another player.

All I know is someone has petrify and it was only available Days 3 and 5.

It’s not me obviously, so someone other then me picked it on D 5. You are the only one to have actually claimed it.

I took HT on D3 and Echo last night.

How do we know that you took HT on D3 and echo last night? You so far haven't healed Sakura and we literally can't know whether you took echo.

[Sando]

See above. Sanity check the logic please.

Is this Sanity checked enough? I think we're coming to a conclusion here?

Petrify does not stop the vote, I just confirmed with mod.

Death doesn't either.

Wait so in Ank+Sak+Gamma+Tor, Math somehow got more votes?

Impossible for there not to be 2 liars in this list and it not be town-Math in that case.

[Drixx]

I voted Ausaka last night, not Nero. Wasn’t I supposed to do that?

because she was supposed to dayvig safely and Nero was supposed to be the backup?

Nope, you were supposed to vote Nero, it was pretty clear.

Can you please stop being an ass while we're at it, you're either scum or don't understand the gamestate, either way you shouldn't be being an ass towards people.

No, I’m very sure it was Ausuka, which I did.

Stop fucking insulting me or don’t fucking talk to me!

I don’t have to listen to this. I did what I thought I was supposed to and more to help town in this game. I totally don’t fucking deserve any of this crap.

The vote assignments were repeated a bunch of times. You literally have no excuse. If you are town (which I seriously doubt), then you didn't pay attention at all and you have severely hurt town.

I mean ... I assume this is just scum theatre but if you flip green then you need to pay attention post game because I'm pretty sure the whole town is going to have some critique for you. You don't get to freelance and do your own thing and then lash out at other people like it's their fault.

But again ... I'm PRETTY SURE you're just scum here so ... nice ATE.

[Nancy Drew 39]

But why does town!Math lie about precog? How does that make any sense?

but why does he lie about it? I asked before but hasn't he been doing precog lists b4 and weren't they all correct?

Can you please stop being an ass while we're at it, you're either scum or don't understand the gamestate, either way you shouldn't be being an ass towards people.

She's not? Now Tor....

I know. Has Math explained that yet?

Anyway, Thanks for that. <3 I don’t see why people feel it’s okay to be so nasty. First UFO calls me an “airhead” and now Sando is attacking me, for I don’t even know God what. I haven’t done anything wrong. I don’t even know who I can trust anymore in this game other then you, because I believe Sakura. The only other people I was confident are town are either petrified or dead, and if I knew I wouldn’t be powerless to heal anymore petrifications tomorrow, I would heal her right now.

[MathBlade]

I voted Ausaka last night, not Nero. Wasn’t I supposed to do that?

because she was supposed to dayvig safely and Nero was supposed to be the backup?

Nope, you were supposed to vote Nero, it was pretty clear.

Can you please stop being an ass while we're at it, you're either scum or don't understand the gamestate, either way you shouldn't be being an ass towards people.

No, I’m very sure it was Ausuka, which I did.

Stop fucking insulting me or don’t fucking talk to me!

I don’t have to listen to this. I did what I thought I was supposed to and more to help town in this game. I totally don’t fucking deserve any of this crap.

The vote assignments were repeated a bunch of times. You literally have no excuse. If you are town (which I seriously doubt), then you didn't pay attention at all and you have severely hurt town.

I mean ... I assume this is just scum theatre but if you flip green then you need to pay attention post game because I'm pretty sure the whole town is going to have some critique for you. You don't get to freelance and do your own thing and then lash out at other people like it's their fault.

But again ... I'm PRETTY SURE you're just scum here so ... nice ATE.

Drixx if Nancy is scum what you are doing is not helping.

Furthermore Nancy if scum with Sakura has to use HT to save her lose lose
Nancy if scum without Sakura has to use HT to save her
Nancy if town and Sakura is town win win
Nancy if town and Sakura is scum lose lose

Mainly we only have issues if Sakura is scum and if Nancy is scum with Sakura scum are down a PR.

So I am thinking Tor needs to be the lynch in that case because Tor would have to be the one to petrify Sakura.

[MathBlade]

Pretty much Nancy if scum is leashed especially if Tor is red. Then we have like no petrifies tonight in Tor/Nancy/Sakura.

So Nancy’s action would speak for itself in that case and we reduce KPN by lynching Tor.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Math doesn't win a 3v3 tie against Nero because of the tie rules.

So let's assume that Petrify removes your vote. That leaves {Gamma, Tora}.

Math still can't be scum because Math needs THREE votes to get elected due to losing ties against Nero.

Petrify does not stop the vote, I just confirmed with mod.

So we have 3 "claimed" votes for Nero in Gamma, Tora and

Sakura

(we just kinda have to assume town aren't stupid and will follow the plan at this point).

Scum voting for town can't even beat that, so there absolutely MUST be a liar in those 3.

Why is Sakura even in that list? It makes 0 sense for scum to have petrified her unless she’s town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Toranaga

I will be so fucking escatic if this flips red.

The only thing I don’t understand if he he used a bomb, why is nobody dead?

[MathBlade]

So the smart play here imho is lynch Tor and then evaluate Nancy based on the actions given.

If she is scum and refuses to use HT on Sakura then we do not eliminate the person with Petrify because scum planned this out. Surely scum would account for Nancy having to use HT.
If she is scum and does actually do it and there is no petrify then Nancy is still outed.

Mainly if Nancy is scum she has to keep the person doing the petrifies alive and per your theory the only person that can be is Tor.

So rather than arguing with scum and trying to put a leash around them just make them accept the consequences.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Toranaga

I will be so fucking escatic if this flips red.

The only thing I don’t understand if he he used a bomb, why is nobody dead?

Then you understand a hell of a lot more than me.
How exactly am I leader pray tell?

[Theta Alpine]

VOTE: tora
tora is not dead because tora never took sui bomb
i should have died by now if he had

[Drixx]

But why does town!Math lie about precog? How does that make any sense?

but why does he lie about it? I asked before but hasn't he been doing precog lists b4 and weren't they all correct?

Can you please stop being an ass while we're at it, you're either scum or don't understand the gamestate, either way you shouldn't be being an ass towards people.

She's not? Now Tor....

I know. Has Math explained that yet?

Anyway, Thanks for that. <3 I don’t see why people feel it’s okay to be so nasty. First UFO calls me an “airhead” and now Sando is attacking me, for I don’t even know God what. I haven’t done anything wrong. I don’t even know who I can trust anymore in this game other then you, because I believe Sakura. The only other people I was confident are town are either petrified or dead,

and if I knew I wouldn’t be powerless to heal anymore petrifications tomorrow, I would heal her right now.

The bold and underline part is just fucking atrocious. You can heal once today/tonight (using it now counts against your night action upcoming). If that means you cannot use another action until tomorrow night, then you only get one heal either way.

So please explain why you want to leave someone you believe is town in a position where they can't talk and don't count for parity. It's

IRRELEVANT

what happens tonight. That won't change when and how often you can heal.

Failure to explain reasoning will be viewed as a scum claim. I'm done with you pretending to be clueless when it suits you and then showing a sharp mind at other times.

[Drixx]

Math doesn't win a 3v3 tie against Nero because of the tie rules.

So let's assume that Petrify removes your vote. That leaves {Gamma, Tora}.

Math still can't be scum because Math needs THREE votes to get elected due to losing ties against Nero.

Petrify does not stop the vote, I just confirmed with mod.

So we have 3 "claimed" votes for Nero in Gamma, Tora and

Sakura

(we just kinda have to assume town aren't stupid and will follow the plan at this point).

Scum voting for town can't even beat that, so there absolutely MUST be a liar in those 3.

Why is Sakura even in that list? It makes 0 sense for scum to have petrified her unless she’s town.

Because that list contains all the people who were supposed to vote for Nero. Also you have certainly heart of a gambit before, yes?

[Drixx]

So the smart play here imho is lynch Tor and then evaluate Nancy based on the actions given.

If she is scum and refuses to use HT on Sakura then we do not eliminate the person with Petrify because scum planned this out. Surely scum would account for Nancy having to use HT.
If she is scum and does actually do it and there is no petrify then Nancy is still outed.

Mainly if Nancy is scum she has to keep the person doing the petrifies alive and per your theory the only person that can be is Tor.

So rather than arguing with scum and trying to put a leash around them just make them accept the consequences.

You're literally arguing for the same thing I am. Nancy needs to heal Sakura. Like right now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

but I'm town reading Math too based on mechanics. Math needs 3 votes and assuming he can't vote himself there was only two scum that could vote him or he's not scum and all 3 scum voted him. Right?

Since you were off the mislynch, Math could only be leader over you by getting more votes. Even if you had been on the mislynch you would still win ties because Math was leader previously.

My only other thought is that scum have a factional ability of

Mind Control: Target another player. You may move their vote once before the end of the next Day Phase. You may change its position by PM'ing the Mod (me).

that works on the leader votes, idk.

I really think that scum only has a kill as a factional ability. It otherwise breaks the entire point of the setup. Earn a plurality of votes to gain powers for you and whomever you choose.

I don’t really think that is the case Drixx.

Mainly because it forces town imho to play antiwin con to do anything. Plus if they don’t give powers to the townread then it is a scum claim. With all the good powers and circle jerk potential scum have to have something.

Except no they don't because we saw power negate and petrify go off last night and we were operating under the assumption that only one possible scum had snuck in under Titus the night Ank died, but what we observe tells us differently.

And of course the fact that you are leader means that at least two people were in the very trusted group tasked with ensuring Nero was the leader if Ausuka got killed during the night.

The entire way the game has played out demonstrates that the setup rewards scum for fooling town. (Which is the actual basic point of mafia; consider mountainous for example. This is a themed powered setup which effectively mimics the basic game really well in terms of what it rewards and punishes).

Who claimed to be negated? I missed that.

Even if so, it could be quite possible that it is freezing and petrify which means Nancy takes freezing and Tor takes petrify.

We have been operating under assumptions that Titus as scum killed to give a power to someone in the PoE. It could have just as easily been Tor. Mainly the kills seem to serve a narrative until this moment.

Furthermore fooling town is just one way to play scum. The other is to just let town eat itself alive.

I think we are in the former but I know really good scums who do the latter. Forcing scum to not play UTR is weird.

What? There isn’t even any evidence that any form of negate was used last night. The only power we know for sure that was used was petrification, and the only one to claim that so far was you. No, I picked echo last night and used it on you.

N1- SC
N2 - bp
N3 - HT
N4 - SS
N5 - Echo

[Sando]

Ok I just annoyed the crap out of the mod I'm pretty sure with a barrage of questions but yes, both Aus and Sakura could have voted last night for Nero and that vote would have counted, totes totes confirmed.

So 4 "claimed" votes for Nero, I think we have to assume Aus/Sak didn't gamethrow:
Gamma
Tor
Sak
Aus

These are A's.

2 scum + 1A on townMath results in Nero-leader
1 scum + 2A on townMath results in Math-leader
2A on scumMath results in Nero-leader

As far as I can tell, there's no way for us not to have 2-3 scum in the A's and a town-Math. The only way would be some scum-mechanic to change the leadervote around, which would seem bastardy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

unpetrify sakura, nancy

If Math is the one who petrified Sakura and all signs point to that, then you know I am powerless to heal tomorrow. Do you really think scum!Math doesn’t petrify again tonight?

I am the only one who can reverse this? What if scum has an echo? Then, there will be 1 NK and 2 petrifies. Don’t you honestly think it better that I wait until we can safely lynch him?

I will obviously do what town wishes but I honestly don’t think it’s the best plan for town, to have their healer powerless to reverse any possible petrifications the following night. We can’t kill Math now, which we could have had you waited until either no lynch, night or the following day to use your bomb.

So, if the majority actually think my healing Sakura now and being powerless tomorrow is best, I’ll of course do it but I won’t be able to reverse any more possible petrifications until D7, at the earliest.

It's irrelevant when you do it. You're making a specious argument here. You're literally arguing "Scum could petrify TWO MORE tonight AND KILL SOMEONE, so you guys should let me leave someone petrified until AFTER all that happens".

Time to put up.

So let's assume that dying removes your vote.
So let's assume that Petrify removes your vote.

They don't.

And from a later quote neither does death. So we now have FOUR votes for Nero, with Nancy supposed to vote there and playing dumb and pretending she didn't know she was supposed to vote nero. That gives us a pool of: {

Ausuka

, Tora, Gamma, Nancy, Sakura}

Literally the entire scum team has to be in that pool or else Math couldn't be elected leader.

Ausuka plus any two others in that list and there's only two left who could have voted for Math. Vote would be Nero 3 and Math 2.
Ausuka plus one other and then it's Math 3, Nero 2.

This heavily implies that Math is town.

p sure you were supposed to vote me. @Nancy

She was. I don't buy the act that she didn't know that. I doubt you do either. It took her WAY too long to claim she voted elsewhere. Pages after I had already put her in the pool of voting Math repeatedly.

Math doesn't win a 3v3 tie against Nero because of the tie rules.

So let's assume that Petrify removes your vote. That leaves {Gamma, Tora}.

Math still can't be scum because Math needs THREE votes to get elected due to losing ties against Nero.

Petrify does not stop the vote, I just confirmed with mod.

So we have 3 "claimed" votes for Nero in Gamma, Tora and

Sakura

(we just kinda have to assume town aren't stupid and will follow the plan at this point).

Scum voting for town can't even beat that, so there absolutely MUST be a liar in those 3.

See above. Sanity check the logic please.

So let's assume that dying removes your vote.
So let's assume that Petrify removes your vote.

They don't.

@Drixx, Petrify isn’t a day action.

I never said it was.

Nancy would be locked up to the heal Sakura gambit and iirc Petrify says target another player.

All I know is someone has petrify and it was only available Days 3 and 5.

It’s not me obviously, so someone other then me picked it on D 5. You are the only one to have actually claimed it.

I took HT on D3 and Echo last night.

How do we know that you took HT on D3 and echo last night? You so far haven't healed Sakura and we literally can't know whether you took echo.

I can prove either one but not in the same cycle, as long as scum doesn’t negate or redirect me.

I said I’m willing to heal Sakura but I’m far more worried about not being able to heal any possible petrifications the following night

, which if echo is available, we could have 2, since we don’t know if scum has that or freezing or something else. So far all we have confirmation of is Petrification. No evidence of either some form of vanillaizer or echo yet but scum likely probably has at least one of those powers.

[Drixx]

scum used power echo on a power negate ofc

so both me and ausuka were negated and then ausuka died

Oh look ... Tora is claiming to have been negated here. For whomever asked.

[Sando]

scum used power echo on a power negate ofc

so both me and ausuka were negated and then ausuka died

Oh look ... Tora is claiming to have been negated here. For whomever asked.

He retracted that afaik and claimed misread of PMs.

[MathBlade]

So the smart play here imho is lynch Tor and then evaluate Nancy based on the actions given.

If she is scum and refuses to use HT on Sakura then we do not eliminate the person with Petrify because scum planned this out. Surely scum would account for Nancy having to use HT.
If she is scum and does actually do it and there is no petrify then Nancy is still outed.

Mainly if Nancy is scum she has to keep the person doing the petrifies alive and per your theory the only person that can be is Tor.

So rather than arguing with scum and trying to put a leash around them just make them accept the consequences.

You're literally arguing for the same thing I am. Nancy needs to heal Sakura. Like right now.

I am actually arguing something slightly different but very close.

I am arguing that the leash is already there. Yelling at scum generally just makes a thread toxic. So if Nancy is scum then yelling at her to do something is the wrong play. Furthermore Nancy very likely could be bringing scum back.

Furthermore if we lynch her today then we still end up wrecked by petrifies based upon the prior argument. I am arguing the leash is present but in a different place.

Pedit: Why would you be taking scum’s word they were negated?