micro 816-I: spaam (normal game) (gambe over)

[RadiantCowbells]

according to who?

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, RC said i should prioritize a lynch on him not Gemeni. I was doing that. As soon as I saw RC as scum, I went after him. So that is a misrep right there.

Lynching Gemeni increases the chances of lynching RC next. It makes no sense as scum to go after Gemeni here, because if Gemeni were to flip town, I’m fucked.

That objectively clears me as town.

[Flavor Leaf]

according to who?

According to the person who you’ve incorrectly read game after game. That is actually a tell on your part. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.

That’s hilarious. I see that according to who? Comment of yours, it actually caught you out. That’s hilarious.

[Flavor Leaf]

YOU DONT WALL CASE ME EVER WHEN YOURE TOWN!!!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

I don’t even care anymore. Lynch me for all it matters. I caught out ScumRC. That’s a personal win in my book.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Gamma/Irrelephant - hammer Gemeni for me, will ya? It’s gonna prove me right. If you think Gemeni will flip town, meh, just see it as it confirms me as scum in that case.

I guarantee you I’m right with the scum team at this point.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, RC said i should prioritize a lynch on him not Gemeni. I was doing that. As soon as I saw RC as scum, I went after him. So that is a misrep right there.

Lynching Gemeni increases the chances of lynching RC next. It makes no sense as scum to go after Gemeni here, because if Gemeni were to flip town, I’m fucked.

That objectively clears me as town.

what else are you supposed to do? you're fucked, your best play is to lynch gemini nightkill me and say whoops I was wrong and go back and try to get the irrelephant lynch.
you know what objectively clears me as town? the fact that I'm an enabler to a restricted watcher.
the idea that scum would be informed about an already limited watcher is meme tier and schadd has shown no indication that he uses roles like watcher.

but you know that you're never going to get my lynch through that and you're not trying to because you

don't have to.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like honestly, I don’t make it out of this game if I was scum. And as town, this is likely my last day anyways, so let’s at least hit ScumGemeni, and you guys can figure out a way to deal with ScumRC tomorrow.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, RC said i should prioritize a lynch on him not Gemeni. I was doing that. As soon as I saw RC as scum, I went after him. So that is a misrep right there.

Lynching Gemeni increases the chances of lynching RC next. It makes no sense as scum to go after Gemeni here, because if Gemeni were to flip town, I’m fucked.

That objectively clears me as town.

what else are you supposed to do? you're fucked, your best play is to lynch gemini nightkill me and say whoops I was wrong and go back and try to get the irrelephant lynch.
you know what objectively clears me as town? the fact that I'm an enabler to a restricted watcher.
the idea that scum would be informed about an already limited watcher is meme tier and schadd has shown no indication that he uses roles like watcher.

but you know that you're never going to get my lynch through that and you're not trying to because you

don't have to.

That’s not my best play. I already said that if you die tonight, kill me instantly.

And I’m more likely to get your lynch through, than you are mine today.

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re just repeating the same flawed fluff you already stated.

I REPEAT IF RC DIES TONIGHT, LYNCH ME IMMEDIATELY.

That stops me from doing the only thing RC says I would go and do.

[RadiantCowbells]

like it's all lynch gemini lynch gemini lynch gemini gemini lynch doesn't get me lynched, as scum I just nightkill you and am still confirmed town because somehow I guessed that the watcher existed

you're just trying to remove me from the game.

Spoiler: Nero PBPA

I'm not getting the Wilky hate. Like at all. Why in the world would scum fakeclaim miller to 1v1 a useless powerrole. Everyone on that wagon gets -10 town cred.

What does seem possible to me is that Dave fakeclaims miller and then CC'd.

vote:Dave

This position that he's taking feels too strong: it feels like a TMI townread. It was already known that the miller claim wasn't a 1v1 and he chooses to ignore that in favor of taking a very confrontational stance. Not a fan.
Not actually literally something that never comes from Nero town, but the position does feel kind of forced.

VOTE: Nero Cain

This seems good

Because focusing on negative utility roles is a distraction and is the kind of thing I'd expect scum to be doing if both millers were town

VOTE: Nero

this is scum sheeping dumb town.

vote:Maria

Again: why? Rather strong position to take, feels TMI. This one is more strongly TMI since I think that dunnstral was not towny at all at that point in the game.

no no no. Hiders are

OBJECTIVELY

weak. We don't call them weak hiders b/c that's redundant. You're basically claiming that you don't know how a hider works which I think is bullshit. You are

ALSO

twisting and/or putting words into my mouth

Again this entirely sequence feels like he's playing dumb. It's not difficult to understand what we're talking about with regards to the hider not being weak but he chooses to go off on Maria for 'not knowing what a hider is?'
This is similar to the first situation with the miller where it obviously wasn't actually a 1-1 CC and this had been discussed but he chooses to ignore that in favor of confrontationally taking a stance that dummies out a lot of the situation.
I went through a strong period of thinking that this was SvS and if I die tonight you should probably lynch Maria before endgame, but this does say more about Nero than it does about Maria, so.

Also just because you point to wiki and find a role weak doesn't mean it can't be in the game

I don't get what this is, like at all. If you are saying that I'm saying that TChill has to be lying b/c the role is not as the wiki lists it then its putting words into my mouth.

that's not the issue at hand here. The issue is you're saying 3 roles 1 has to be a fake claim in them via scum and that's the agenda you're pushing that I have a problem with it's not me saying you don't think hiders are weak I don't really care about that. I just don't get why you closed off the thought of "oh maybe they could all be town"

That really wasn't your original argument though. Like Tchill claimed that he was a hider but GIF had taken away the weak modifier. You then claimed that I think "

without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.

Its putting words into my mouth.

I guess the real question is why can't I, as town, think there's a fake claimer in 3 neg utility roles? I guess the other question is why do you think all 3 are town and they aren't fakeclaiming.

Do you sr people in the group besides the claims? I see you tr wilk because you don't see scum him ccing but what do you feel about dave and tchi play wise?

I DO! I think you are scum and the RC hydra is scummy and Khade. Dave and tchill are null, it's pure WIFOM paranoid.

again: totally misses the point of the discussion.

thought I do like this I just didn't like how RC seemingly was talking out of both sides of his mouth about Wilky.

And your going from "I think Wilky is scum" to "guys lets all believe the the 3 neg utility roles" makes your Wilky vote seem pretty bandwagony.

Read on me is weirdly waffly: calls it good then says that I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. Also the inclusion of 'seemingly' is scummy, was I or wasn't I talking out of both sides of my mouth about Wilky?

RC, if your town and your whole thing is "I'm going to get Nero lynched as punishment!" then that's p immature bro.

Though the thing about the Wilky was meant to be about MARIA'S vote. I reread it and see how it was confusing so my bad on that.

Again this is... weird. The reaction to me getting nero lynched as punishment is pretty underplayed, just calls it immature, but he still felt like including that when there was a clear reason I was scumreading him that he corrected?

ewww @ the Nero is lurking argument. Though I can't tell if its normal Ram idiotcy or opportunistic scum hopping on a growing bandwagon.

This is a super scummy post on it's own right, and its super indicative that Ram is scum as well.


Also not going to include all the quotes about Maria but his weird insistency that Maria is scum to the point of tying a bunch of people to her feels scummy regardless of darling Claire's alignment.

your top scum read is town as fuck Wilky while you also blasted me for thinking that there's scum in the fake claimers? This is hypocritical as fuck.

Again: Wilky feels TMI, the other bit is just awful.

I doubt i can get anything more from you, if no one else is joining me, but i'll keep eye on you

mayhaps no one joined us b/c the grand total of ur case is "Nero is lurking" which isn't true anyways.

Feels SvS once again. Super shallow engagement that doesn't actually make an effort to sort each other, just to have an interaction and stop talking to each other.

I don't really buy into this "I'm playing my d1 sheep game." I don't feel like a meta dive but this is probs null as they do it as both alignments. Still, the scum motivation in sheeping is there.

Again: really waffly. Nero is not a waffly person.

So TL;DRs of Nero.

1) His reads on several people, including Dunnstral, Maria, and the millers, feel TMI.
2) He shallowly engages with several major topics of the day to the point of failing to engage with the actual questions and taking a strong stance not based in the reasoning. I don't think Nero's that dumb.
3) His intercourse with Ramcius feels incredibly SvS. Maria I'm also concerned about but I would actually put her as more likely to be town post Nero-townflip than Maria.

I am not going to do a PBPA of Matt because I haven't had the same level of tiem to distill what I don't like about individual posts but

1) His obsession with the question of mechanical vs not mechanical feels like a scum posturing to me. He doesn't actually try to change it, he just makes fun of OTM for it.
2) He AGAIN feels really TMIy with several locktownreads that he doesn't explain, insulting several readslists with no indication of what's wrong with them, and his poorly explained Davesaz tr.
3) Back with 1: he repeatedly gets mad at townies for doing 'bad' things but makes no effort to change them, he just insults them and continues to sideline the game.
4) At no point in the game does he actually scumhunt or explain a read. Go through the game again, it literally never happens. He just has this Dunnstral scumread and pushes it, no explanation, insults a bunch of the popular wagons, no explanation, explains why Tchill is included in his scumpool earlier in the game but no explanation of why anyone there is scum.

I don't do wallcases though.

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re not a town enabler. You’re coasting off your fake claim.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, RC said i should prioritize a lynch on him not Gemeni. I was doing that. As soon as I saw RC as scum, I went after him. So that is a misrep right there.

Lynching Gemeni increases the chances of lynching RC next. It makes no sense as scum to go after Gemeni here, because if Gemeni were to flip town, I’m fucked.

That objectively clears me as town.

what else are you supposed to do? you're fucked, your best play is to lynch gemini nightkill me and say whoops I was wrong and go back and try to get the irrelephant lynch.
you know what objectively clears me as town? the fact that I'm an enabler to a restricted watcher.
the idea that scum would be informed about an already limited watcher is meme tier and schadd has shown no indication that he uses roles like watcher.

but you know that you're never going to get my lynch through that and you're not trying to because you

don't have to.

That’s not my best play. I already said that if you die tonight, kill me instantly.

And I’m more likely to get your lynch through, than you are mine today.

things no one would ever say to scum me for 500$

[Flavor Leaf]

As scum, you night kill me, yes. EXACTLY.

I’m okay with that plan.

[RadiantCowbells]

You’re not a town enabler. You’re coasting off your fake claim.

since when do I coast off of fake claims? since when do I not have the follow through to close out games? since when do I let myself get tied to buddies when I'm basically confirmed town?

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, RC said i should prioritize a lynch on him not Gemeni. I was doing that. As soon as I saw RC as scum, I went after him. So that is a misrep right there.

Lynching Gemeni increases the chances of lynching RC next. It makes no sense as scum to go after Gemeni here, because if Gemeni were to flip town, I’m fucked.

That objectively clears me as town.

what else are you supposed to do? you're fucked, your best play is to lynch gemini nightkill me and say whoops I was wrong and go back and try to get the irrelephant lynch.
you know what objectively clears me as town? the fact that I'm an enabler to a restricted watcher.
the idea that scum would be informed about an already limited watcher is meme tier and schadd has shown no indication that he uses roles like watcher.

but you know that you're never going to get my lynch through that and you're not trying to because you

don't have to.

That’s not my best play. I already said that if you die tonight, kill me instantly.

And I’m more likely to get your lynch through, than you are mine today.

things no one would ever say to scum me for 500$

I would only say that to scum you.

[RadiantCowbells]

that doesn't make sense given that scum me is a lot better at pushing lynches and generally controlling the game

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re not a town enabler. You’re coasting off your fake claim.

since when do I coast off of fake claims? since when do I not have the follow through to close out games? since when do I let myself get tied to buddies when I'm basically confirmed town?

You aren’t confirmed town. I’m conftown! Objectively.

You’re just WIFOM’ing and ignoring the fact that that was easily a ploy to get you towncred for the game, and now you’re getting caught out.

[Flavor Leaf]

that doesn't make sense given that scum me is a lot better at pushing lynches and generally controlling the game

You already did push through a lynch.-

And you’re fighting town me, and I always got your number. :shrug:

It’s just generally us TvT, you’re just scum here.

[RadiantCowbells]

"easily a ploy to get you towncred for the game"

how did I know the watcher existed unless I'm an enabler and why does schadd give scum an enabler to a town restricted watcher?
you're trying to act like me getting this role is something that I consciously did.

[Flavor Leaf]

Now you’re just self meta’ing and WIFOM’ing to attempt a discredit or halt the momentum.

[Flavor Leaf]

"easily a ploy to get you towncred for the game"

how did I know the watcher existed unless I'm an enabler and why does schadd give scum an enabler to a town restricted watcher?
you're trying to act like me getting this role is something that I consciously did.

Gamma already explained this. Informed role, or you’re a Scum Enabler.

I’m leaning towards the Informed, though. It was a good scum play, I’ll give it that.

[RadiantCowbells]

I see a future where you go oh I wouldn't have killed RC after saying that I should be lynched after he dies, the rest of the town nods along reluctantly and mutant throws down another gamethrow vote tomorrow.

Gamma already explained this. Informed role, or you’re a Scum Enabler.

I’m leaning towards the Informed, though. It was a good scum play, I’ll give it that.

you can't rationalize the existence of an informed role on scum telling them about an odd night watcher.

[Flavor Leaf]

And now you’re bringing up Mod Meta, but yes, I don’t see why that is a thing he wouldn’t do.

He had a Night 3 Vigilante in the last game I played in that he nodded and a weak fruit vendor.

[Flavor Leaf]

I see a future where you go oh I wouldn't have killed RC after saying that I should be lynched after he dies, the rest of the town nods along reluctantly and mutant throws down another gamethrow vote tomorrow.

Gamma already explained this. Informed role, or you’re a Scum Enabler.

I’m leaning towards the Informed, though. It was a good scum play, I’ll give it that.

you can't rationalize the existence of an informed role on scum telling them about an odd night watcher.

Sure not Odd-Night, just the Watcher bit. Could just be a Watcher Enabler on the scum side. I like how that was just let go.

They can just lynch me anyways if I say that.

But putting it on record, if I was scum in that scenario, I can’t even deny that. I hella would do that as scum, and Gamma here knows it.

Gemeni will flip scum, though

[RadiantCowbells]

What correlation does any of that have to the mod putting an informed role which are almost unheard of in normals?