SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[MariaR]

Oh this started

Here I come!

[MariaR]

I haven't read the last couple of pages but Maria is getting a ten.

easiest game of my fucking life

[MariaR]

^ good meme don't quote it

[MariaR]

You're asking for content with 6 pages in you'll get content when I feel the urge to post something so far it's a *shrug*

[MariaR]

Thankfully there's 2 players in here who I can read better then anyone on this site I'd say so this will be easy

[MariaR]

You're asking for content with 6 pages in you'll get content when I feel the urge to post something so far it's a *shrug*

So should I just wait for page 12 and hope the deadline hasn't already arrived by then?

Thankfully there's 2 players in here who I can read better then anyone on this site I'd say so this will be easy

Is it anyone within

{Deasvail, Fire, the worst, Espeonage, TehBrawlGuy, Chara}

?

Maybe maybe not. If I see something I wanna comment on I will simple as that if you don't like it don't give me points *shrug*
It's Dunnstral and Chara both should agree that I can read them very well

[MariaR]

I feel regardless I shouldn't answer that question right now and let everyone else get a read on Chara and gauge how genuine I think said read is and then give the correct read

[MariaR]

I need to be rated highly...not for any role reason just for my self esteem

[MariaR]

Ok read up.

I'm giving screenplay a permanent 0 for 105

Other people low on the totem pole are Chara/Deas/Brawl though for Chara/Deas there were different points where each talking about Chara being townread for spurious reasons redeemed them a tad. Also I think it's clear they aren't scum together.

Brawl for this:

fire scums

@dunn and espeonage: do you just need him to be higher/lower than an average, or a certain mark? because we as a town could give him all 0s or all 10s to guarantee one of you gets the power

Thought process here is manufactured

Espe came off as stilted earlier but considering w.e this role mechanic that's going on between Dunnstral/Espe/Vax/FA might explain that somewhat aside from the fact that Espe's continued serious scum read on FA doesn't make sense to me.

2

I'm giving screenplay a permanent 0 for 105

Ok. You caught me. I don’t pay attention and I’m bad town. GG. Move on now.

6

[MariaR]

105 isn't something scum screenplay says imo it's too dumb a gambit to try but his reaction to it was pretty good imo. I dislike Dan jumping on it
The post itself (Dans) isn't that impressive and easy to fake of a catch up if any

[MariaR]

I'm keen on posting/updating my rankings frequently solely to get people's attention and see how they react to them

This doesn't work when you state the reason why you're doing it.

[MariaR]

105 isn't something scum screenplay says imo it's too dumb a gambit to try but his reaction to it was pretty good imo. I dislike Dan jumping on it

Why's it "too dumb" for scum to try? What's your read on Screen's intent with 105?

I liked Dan's jump. I glimpsed over 105 without thinking much but Dan paused to give it more thought in a way that feels pretty town. I don't see scum reading as much into 105 as Dan did.

Really? I think the exact opposite I can see scum seeing something like that and jumping on it right away and pushing someone for it and I think that's what Dan did he just going "this gets you a 0" isn't towny it's scummy if he fully explained it with detail perhaps maybe but the way AD did it no no

Maria, what'd you like about 155? You think it's realistic that townScreen actually thought there weren't scum in this game?

maybe maybe not. I don't think scum screen would do that seems stupid I tr him for it it's wifom for the most part his reaction is what I town read over the post itself

[MariaR]

@mod I'm off to new york should be back by Sat

[MariaR]

What I miss

[MariaR]

>is getting tr and has no idea why.
Whew

[MariaR]

You reread, and then weakly, weakly say that PP isn't scummy. But his post is what made you think this wasn't TvT?

this. Brawl's posts make me want to townread him on gut but his stance of Penguin/Taly just doesn't make sense to me.
what can you point to that tells you it's not TvT if not someone acting in a way that makes them seem not town?

worst: i know you said you wanted to talk about Taly, but if you like my reasoning, i'm not sure if there's anything more to talk about. :>
he's not locktown, but while i don't agree with everything he says, the points being picked at for Taly-scum don't really resonate with me either.

This is kind of a vague, shitty answer, because my initial read on it was just that the interaction between them felt off in a way that TvT isn't usually.

Going back and looking, this pings me the hardest:

This reads like an excuse.

Nobody's stopping you from voting right now, faux votes are legal.

And have no impact, so are worthless.

Then why are you even bringing up votes? If you think there's no point, you're not adding to the discussion by saying

"I want this, but we can't have this"

And if you think votes are worthless, I'm voting you, and is it not catching your attention?

but all the interactions between them seem aggressive, but only just barely, in a way that genuine interactions aren't. I'm having a hard time parsing what the reason for that is, specifically, though. It could be one of them is Scum, and that's why it feels off, it could be both and they're bussing, but I feel reasonably sure that they're not both Town.

giving this guy a 0 as his death gives me info I want and I dislike this post

[MariaR]

Trying to chainsaw a lynch. You think the post is SvT but don't make a solid stance on what one is what gives you options I dislike that. You basically spent the whole post explaining why it

could

be TvS but never took a stance on what one you think it is giving town the option to jump in and do the work for you

[MariaR]

Oh yeah I need to read dunn and chara and tell the thread if we're giving them 0s or 10s

[MariaR]

but I'm so fking tired rn I can only do basic things

[MariaR]

>is getting tr and has no idea why.
Whew

I am not townreading you. In fact I am really unsure of why you are behaving the way you have been.
Care to explain what got you so into the game?

honestly have 0 clue what you're talking about.
I'm just playing a game of mafia man

[MariaR]

Seems like I'm getting past n1 so that feels good too

[MariaR]

honestly have 0 clue what you're talking about.
I'm just playing a game of mafia man

Don't play that with me, I know you better than that.

Play what

[MariaR]

Do you think I have a certain mood when I'm town or scum? That's wrong cause that's what makes me hard to read
Changing your tone is so fucking simple
that you can do it by changing each sentence to fit something
...or by using little sayings to fix it I guess
But please fire-kun what am I playing?

[MariaR]

No I really do like this game
I just had a trip to new york and I'm tired as fuck

[MariaR]

ok fire then take a point to the argument instead of spouting nonsense that means nothing to the topic at hand

[MariaR]

10, Me
10,
10,
9,
8, Espeon
7, Taly
6, Srceenplay
6,
5,
5,
4,
4, Pun
3,
2, TehbrawlGuy
1, Nico
0, Action Dan
0,
0
need to fill in the blanks I see
Pedit: I don't know what you mean by mood based play

[MariaR]

I'm playing mafia. Pretty simple fire

[MariaR]

Like as mafia I do have a plan going into every game.
As town I play mafia and post whatever I want. The ability to freely think without any backlash or drawback is refreshing plus I can get all the reads I want my own way
Although people do hate my reactive playstyle

Gonna go ISP PP but at first glance he gets a 5

[MariaR]

PP gets a 6

[MariaR]

Ratings are hard to figure out because I need to find where to put my townreads, the people I want alive, the people I want dead, and the people I sr.
change PP to a 10

[MariaR]

Claim doesn't =ali
look fhr the way they claimed that's what's important not the claim itself.
Also I hope I'm not the only one openly lying about rankings here

[MariaR]

@fire Taly a 0? I was going to give them a 8-10

@maria. PP a 10. I thought the consensus was the lower half?

Eh PP is prob town
my rankings aren't gonna be 100% honest because I refuse to believe scum doesn't have a power to influence votes
Pedit: Why would I care about his role

[MariaR]

his role doesn't mean shit *yawn*

[MariaR]

How can I convince you all that Espeonage is scum and needs 0s?
Ill take a 0 if thats what it takes.

Fake.

Anyway going to bed

[MariaR]

eh that's nai

[MariaR]

oh no nat in a scum slot feels bad

[MariaR]

That actually gives us a situation where dissonance is actually good for us.

Because if everyone has a solid mix other than some universal reads given 0s. We end up with it very likely those two die. I am however still worried about a vote swapper or set one players average to five.

:/ need to think.

Whoa It's like I said this yet only now people understand

[MariaR]

That actually gives us a situation where dissonance is actually good for us.

Because if everyone has a solid mix other than some universal reads given 0s. We end up with it very likely those two die. I am however still worried about a vote swapper or set one players average to five.

:/ need to think.

Whoa It's like I said this yet only now people understand

where did you say any of this?

this is exactly why I'm lying about my rankings as I said because of vote swappers etc
I doubt they can just swap vote totals cause that's outright op but I do think scum have stuff like Make player X's 10 a 0 or 0 a 10 to mess with numbers

[MariaR]

i like the idea of lying about one's rankings so scum has more difficulty planning than just doing random rankings.

^^^ Chara gets me

[MariaR]

Shoshin is by far the player that interests me the most atm.

[MariaR]

Dunn, I'd like an answer to this:

you can have a 4 though mariar

Why 4? Who's lower?

Nico can have a 1 for being useless, Vax can get a 0 for being my quest and being scummy anyway, other than that I don't know, and don't know if revealing a lot of #'s is even a good idea

Why is Maria a 4?

Yeah what if I wanted to be a 2!
Also why did you ask about my names out of all of these

Shoshin is by far the player that interests me the most atm.

I like her. What's on your mind?

It's really hard to explain the best way to say it is her posts look towny but I don't want to tr them? She's interesting someone I want alive for sure to look at and think about. That's prob the best way I can answer it

[MariaR]

if you want engagement do it yourself and push yourself into the gamestate.

[MariaR]

then vote that instead of just going "engage with me"

[MariaR]

It's really hard to explain the best way to say it is her posts look towny but I don't want to tr them? She's interesting someone I want alive for sure to look at and think about. That's prob the best way I can answer it

Do you think she'll be easier to sort later, or like... it's better to leave her alive on the probability that she's town?

Both for the most part

[MariaR]

k taly spoke not vote
VOTE: end day
ty

[MariaR]

no but people wanted you to speak so

[MariaR]

I'm strongly against ending the day early.

I strongly advise for it before apathy sets in and people second guess there reads
I rather have an early day that everyone feels confident on then a long day that is pathy

[MariaR]

What does QFT mean

[MariaR]

you should give me a 10 because it'd make me feel better at my chances of living thanks.

[MariaR]

I'll probably bump her up a bit then. Why is Nahdia town for suggesting early end but Maria scum for agreeing with it?

You should probably stop treating this day phase as a typical mafia game.

I didn't say Nahdia's town for suggesting early end; Nahdia's done other things that make me think she's town. Maria's done things that are scummy, and her desire to end the day is consistent with reading her as scummy, especially since she wasn't the initial person to suggest ending early. I think scum want to end early but aren't typically going to say so because they're worried it might be seen as scummy - they're self-conscious about appearing to want to shut down a meaningful discussion because it's very easy for that to be taken as scummy, whereas a townie who genuinely believes we should end early would just say it, the way I think Nahdia did.

To be clear, I'm not treating this day phase like a normal game. It's actually why I think ending the day here isn't the right play. The rankings system puts more pressure than normal on scum to be read as town because our collective intelligence via rankings could plausibly lead to scum deaths in situations where we wouldn't ordinarily be able to get a consensus on a scum lynch - so this isn't a typical situation where people care only about who they're lynching - here, every ranking matters so figuring out your top suspect 0s doesn't mean it's time to stop refining reads because the difference between a 9 and 10 might actually be the difference between who dies. I think the desire to end the day here comes more from a scum mindset than a town one because scum are under a lot of pressure to avoid dying, while town have lots of incentive to refine their reads as precisely as possible. In terms of gameplay, I think scum have every reason to try taking advantage of the system by "lying" about reads and claiming it's because of "scum manipulation," whereas townies aren't interested in "lying," they're interested in finding the scum and refining reads to the best extent possible.

you take a lot of things at face value I assume. Am I lying about a few things? Yes of course as I think everyone here should be I'd be shocked if scum didn't have some role to influence votes to counteract the chance they could die at night. Along with other roles we might have in the game? That's really broken and I think just being openly honest is incorrect play here
Every game has the chance to have apathy I feel like we're not even having a huge meaningful talk I feel like a lot of the talk has happened and if we keep doing said talk we'll go in circles and start second guessing and that's exactly what the mafia want. If we make our statements and be confident in them the game can end and we can have long day phases the next day and so on and so forth I don't t think dragging this out would be right if you think I'm scum for disagreeing with you I can't help you there.
Pedit: Thank you for your input Screenplay just like the rest of your content it has been extremely helpful

[MariaR]

Anything to ask me?

[MariaR]

No? Thought not
VOTE: end day
HURRY UP

[MariaR]

10, MariaR
10, Punreader
10, Espeonage
9, TehBrawlGuy
8, the worst
7, PenguinPower
6, Srceenplay
6, Chara
5, Dunnstral
5, DeasVail
4, Taly
4, Shoshin
3, Fire Assassin
2, Pine
1, Vaxkiller
0, Lovebird
0, NicoRobin
0 Nahdia

[MariaR]

Can we get a list of all claims ty

[MariaR]

Btw I'm sick.

[MariaR]

Charaaaa we need to decide on a pool of votes lmk what your list is and I'll pick some too ^^

[MariaR]

Taly I'm pretty confident on Vax being town can you pick someone else?

[MariaR]

Maria: i haven't decided yet, what's your pool? as long as it's not my townreads, i don't care at the moment.

TehBrawlGuy
5. DeasVail
7. Dunnstral
8. Nahdia
11. Shoshin
12. Fire Assassin
17. PenguinPower

I tr everyone not on this list

[MariaR]

I invested him.

[MariaR]

it's like 80% chance for vax town.

[MariaR]

I have no reason to talk about it. Chara and me know full well what it is.

[MariaR]

You just let me handle Chara for a little

[MariaR]

You better duck face

[MariaR]

um I think fire's claim is bs btw

[MariaR]

VOTE: fire
My invest was a cop as well I don't think we have 2 cops

[MariaR]

VOTE: fire
My invest was a cop as well I don't think we have 2 cops

Stop fake claiming.

I'm not fake claiming

[MariaR]

I have 0 reason to fake claim this

[MariaR]

k gl with that

[MariaR]

Maria, can you please outline why Fire's claim is BS and why it's odd to have 2 cops here?

I just dislike the way he went at it for the most part and since I used a cop check myself and I can't even do anything now it's like ???

[MariaR]

What are all the claims we have atm?

[MariaR]

Ok so I think I should just claim this
After the night I cop someone I become BP for that night so I doubt we have that many bps

[MariaR]

I don't think I would've been a night kill target so I think it was ok to claim that

[MariaR]

What do you think of

PP/Pun

,

Maria

?

I really want to know your thoughts revolving around their play and claim.

They need to prove there a vig and they haven't done so yet.
if they don't prove it tonight they prob are scum ye

[MariaR]

ik.
we don't question it

[MariaR]

Why is

PP

town to you?

I've been debating cause I have a bp too you know? Unless scum has like strongmans roleblockers city that aren't shot based all this power seems broken

[MariaR]

nope vax is 100% town

[MariaR]

Awwww Chara trusts me <3

[MariaR]

weeeeee

[MariaR]

10, MariaR
10, Punreader Role.
10, Espeonage Towny town
9, TehBrawlGuy Towny town.
8, the worst he interests me
7, PenguinPower wanted him to survive
6, Srceenplay tr
6, Chara Big tr but didn't need that many points
5, Dunnstral place holder
5, DeasVail place holder
4, Taly ehh someone I need to keep my eye on
4, Shoshin Felt was gonna live anyway so gave a low ratings
3, Fire Assassin Didn't mind if they died
2, Pine People wanted him low
1, Vaxkiller forgot
0, Lovebird Poe
0, NicoRobin Will never be useful
0 Nahdia is scum

there ya go taly

[MariaR]

I'm not answering that

[MariaR]

1) I still don't get your read on Dunn
2) I don't know why you were OK with Fire dying?
3) Why give Lovebird a 0 at all??? There really wasn't a lot of content to judge from there.
4) If you believe Nahdia is scum, why is your vote on Fire, and why is this the first time you explicitly say Nahdia is scum?
5) ....Why did you ever put Pine low? "people wanted him low" is not a reason conducive to gamesolving?...
6) So you forgot about Vax and then copped him? Why not Nahdia, who is scum to you?
7) Why did you want PP to survive?
8) Do you think Fire/Nahdia are associated?

1) Dunn is town
2) I don't know why you wouldn't be
3) Why not?
4) I've...openly said Nahdia is scum before
5) It is for me just because I don't beat to your drum doesn't mean you can try to discredit mine.
6) You should never cop people who you think are scum you should cop people who are gonna be hard to read lurkers etc Nahdia would be much easier to read than Vax and get lynched. Why would I cop someone I'm confident is flipping scum?
7) His role because it has part of my role and it interested me
8) I don't look at teams.


Chara come around so we can talk about readss

[MariaR]

VOTE: MariaR

VOTE: PP
You put me high and chara too so why if I say "don't do this" because I clearly don't want to give the answer would you try?

[MariaR]

Like you're not lynching me or Chara today so why give the info to scum on if this works or not

[MariaR]

Shoshin actively avoiding talking to there scumread and pointing out why I'm scum is pretty shady also. Like you've called I believe 2 posts of mine scummy with 0 reason why I believe correct me if I'm incorrect
Pedit: Thank you UNVOTE:

[MariaR]

Shoshin needs to actually be productive and state reasons but they could just be lazy I'll wait a little plus I can't vote em if Chara hard nopes me

[MariaR]

I don't know why everyone asks me for my Dunn read 24/7 like can I read him like a book yes. But why would I be honest unless he was about to be lynched? I don't want everyone just trusting my read and dismissing Dunn that's not helpful at all because people can simply go "Well if Maria says Dunn is X then he's X" and that's a lazy excuse.
Pedit: I've never played with Shoshin before and I'm trying to see why they sr me like after I answered there post with valid reasoning they just called it scummy and never did anything after that. Wait PP we shouldn't be agreeing omg you're so scummy!

[MariaR]

Funfact I hate how Taly and the worst are being and it makes me question the read a little but then I go "ehhh prob not" plus I'd never get them lynched anyway. Like I know buddying is a thing but you guys make me sick I tell you.
Nahdia Sho Deas Fire PP deaths prob win us the game anyway

[MariaR]

Taly I feel half your posts should go into your own little notebook of "Taly thoughts" and you just keep em there.

[MariaR]

I want to lynch Dunnstral than Maria.

Laughed

[MariaR]

Not a normal cop but I didn't believe fire not because of the cop itself but because of the result.

[MariaR]

You're hard to read and I wanted to pick someone I didn't see dying. Pretty simple when I cop someone I go for lurkers hard to read people and not good nk choices

[MariaR]

I wanted to cop shoshin at first but they might've died

[MariaR]

VOTE: Nahdia

[MariaR]

you only make cases in LyLo?

Maria, i don't like the Nahdia vote at the moment, you'll have to convince me. :>
(or force it, but you wouldn't do that to me.)

I wouldn't? ....Gr you know me too well
Ok I will later

[MariaR]

Hm?

[MariaR]

cases ewww w/e fine later I will for chara

[MariaR]

So you won't make a case against your scumread but you're also frustrated that nobody is voting

There's a nice Nahdia wagon forming

I never said the 2nd part of that statement

[MariaR]

So you won't make a case against your scumread but you're also frustrated that nobody is voting

There's a nice Nahdia wagon forming

I never said the 2nd part of that statement

The whole thing is directed at Penguinpower

Better be bitch

[MariaR]

I like you too <3

[MariaR]

Going out to eat tonight will catch up later

[MariaR]

Connect eh?

[MariaR]

I think one of the big reasons Nat is scum is because of Actiondans post at 154 it doesn't seem like it comes from a town mindset he just said Screen is a 0 and not explaining why. I feel like they were trying to also shade Chara and Brawl 2 very towny people it doesn't come from a town mindset trying to solve the game more so scum trying to mislead
Then we got Nat here:

I think trying to find some way to optimize the ranking phase is folly. Like Chara said, if we have some universal scumread and they slip by that phase, we can always lynch them. IS there even anyone whom people are in total agreement should get all 0's though?

Can we talk about that? This conversation seems like a lot of futile fluff that's really easy for scum to blend in during. Scum thrive when mechanics is the focus of the game rather than scumhunting.

@Punreader when you say pun do you mean scum..?

This talk never happened. Lack of thought going in here

Alternatively, we just don't publish our lists before the ranking phase, we do so afterwards. Giving everyone a pass to lie about their reads is just shooting ourselves in the foot and randoming makes zero sense. Even if scum are able to save themselves in this phase, we'll still clean out some scummy town.

In other news, we should VOTE: End day sooner rather than later, though we can wait for some people to craft reads lists first if they really insist. I would advise against outright ranking them though and publishing who you're giving what score. I don't believe there's much to be gained from a prolonged day 1. From experience, spending a long time just chatting with no information doesn't necessarily lead to better reads. Watching the chaos that was Civilization Mafia certainly taught me that.

Realtalk, that's enough about mechanics. Let's get talking about reads. I think Pine's shit he got warned by the mod for was towny, so I'm eager to see Punreader's assessment to the contrary. Dunnstral's content is lame, particularly his response to my opener; extremely LAMIST and doesn't track considering he's barely playing the game himself. Chara looks like its townself (have I ever played against you as scum tho?) but its read on DV's opening doesn't track with me at all, and the thing it pointed out tends to be something I look for.

TBG really needs to stop talking shop and get back to scumhunting.

Funny nat should've been doing the same thing besides posting this. The reason for the Dunntral read is outright shallow and bad I don't see how mod warning is towny and a very blah reason.

I hereby declare anyone after this point who makes a post purely mechanical in nature will provoke my eternal ire and I will campaign for their death forevermore.

Holy crap are punreader's posts actually important or can I just like... do some skimming?

Posting for the sake of posting.

TBG fwiw i dont know EP's personal feelings on it but using stuff like google sheets that you cant embed into the forum tends to get you in trouble, since you can alter it irrevocably after posting it and during times you shouldnt be able to post.

PenguinPower - 8
Taly - 5
MariaR - 3

Nahdia why PP so high and Taly/Maria so low?

pretty sure i made my PenguinPower read clear yesterday.
Taly I just had mixed feelings on since i didnt see anything super towny despite a huge mass of posts but i still wanted them around because people who post a reasonable amount help the game, town or scum.
Maria I'm just fucking incapable of reading and she was low by process of elimination because i'm mostly just townhunting here because my scumreading abilities are absolute fucking shit, as she can attest to from our last game together.

Taly's posts today have been solid though and we seem pretty much on the same page on stuff for the moment.

I can conf that Nat has a hard time reading me but I find it hard that she'd just go "lol nope" and ignore me as town.

[MariaR]

If it was just nat she'd be null/lurk poe but with Action dans posting Nat is scum. Sorry not sorry Chara can I move our vote back now?

[MariaR]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76221 - me as scum
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76303 - me as town

Gustavo was in both games. He should know better than to vote me here. The way he's misrepresenting what I'm saying shows a pretty strong desire to characterize my play in the worst possible light. No way he's town here.

The ironic part is the tone in this post is dif then every other post sho has said js.

[MariaR]

PP is def on the easier side of lynches imo

[MariaR]

Holy shit Dunn is angry

[MariaR]

ik Chara wouldn't hammer without my consent <3

[MariaR]

They givin you a problem Chara?

[MariaR]

Sho/PP

[MariaR]

But then Fire claims and he's scum because there can't be two cops? I thought claims weren't AI... I thought Maria was open to crazy setup stuff... but nah, guess not.

I said this before and I'll say it again. I didn't believe fire was a cop because of his invest result more so then him claiming cop itself.

[MariaR]

Her posts feel more defensive than scumhunting oriented.

Can you show me what defensive posting you're talking about? That could just be more playstyle given I'm a very reactive player but I'd like to see what you're on about.

On D1, she said she was openly lying about reads/rankings in a way that makes me think she's trying to avoid commiting to any positions, a pretty typical scum pattern.

I don't see why this is an issue when scum me can just give you reads and stick to them for the most part because it's kinda easy to do that. Well at least for me given I find scum easier than town but you wouldn't know that if you didn't know me

She quickly jumped onto Nahdia's reasoning to end the day without wanting to scumhunt.

I have no idea where you're going with this? Yes I did agree with Nahdia that the day should end early but I don't get where you got the "without scumhunting" part I wanted the day to end early so people didn't second guess reads.

And the way she voted Fire today after he claimed didn't square with the way she was thinking on D1 about the game's roles/setup (i.e. on D1 she's going on about how the scum might have roles to screw with our rankings, which is a really speculative position, but then when Fire claims, she's suddenly can't speculate about multiple cops?),

Na more cops isn't the problem godfathers can be a thing etc etc I really disliked his result and the way he went about it. The fact he unvoted after my claim was...interesting

[MariaR]

You thought a guilty on Esp wasn't plausible?

Check my rankings esp was one of my top townreads and his reaction felt legit to me. I felt it was more likely fire was bsing in some way IE gambit or just fakeclaiming then having a srs guilty on one of my top townreads yes. If it was on someone I was scumreading I wouldn't have had an issue.

But then Fire claims and he's scum because there can't be two cops? I thought claims weren't AI... I thought Maria was open to crazy setup stuff... but nah, guess not.

I said this before and I'll say it again. I didn't believe fire was a cop because of his invest result more so then him claiming cop itself.

Thus begs the question, why aren't you voting Fire? And why aren't you looking for Fire's partners if you believe that? Why is this day not a 1v1 between you both if you believe he can't be a cop.

He took it back because his is based on rankings that we can not conf and that means the base of the strong sr is gone. I can still see fire flipping scum easy because I would like to think he's decent at the game when he tries. For now he's just in a base of a scumread while I sr your slot

much

more

[MariaR]

Her posts feel more defensive than scumhunting oriented.

Can you show me what defensive posting you're talking about? That could just be more playstyle given I'm a very reactive player but I'd like to see what you're on about.

On D1, she said she was openly lying about reads/rankings in a way that makes me think she's trying to avoid commiting to any positions, a pretty typical scum pattern.

I don't see why this is an issue when scum me can just give you reads and stick to them for the most part because it's kinda easy to do that. Well at least for me given I find scum easier than town but you wouldn't know that if you didn't know me

She quickly jumped onto Nahdia's reasoning to end the day without wanting to scumhunt.

I have no idea where you're going with this? Yes I did agree with Nahdia that the day should end early but I don't get where you got the "without scumhunting" part I wanted the day to end early so people didn't second guess reads.

And the way she voted Fire today after he claimed didn't square with the way she was thinking on D1 about the game's roles/setup (i.e. on D1 she's going on about how the scum might have roles to screw with our rankings, which is a really speculative position, but then when Fire claims, she's suddenly can't speculate about multiple cops?),

Na more cops isn't the problem godfathers can be a thing etc etc I really disliked his result and the way he went about it. The fact he unvoted after my claim was...interesting

Why would it matter if people second guess reads? Making sure reads are solid is a core foundation of the game.

I think the moment town goes into apathy and starts second guessing reads and gives less effort is the moment town loses games. If you keep questioning yourself you'll never get results. Debating reads between players is a base part of mafia but if you keep going "what if" every 5 minutes on a read you don't get anything done.

[MariaR]

So you scumread more than someone who to you is mechanically confirmed scum? Seems legit.

No one is mechanically confirmed scum.

[MariaR]

Check my rankings esp was one of my top townreads and his reaction felt legit to me. I felt it was more likely fire was bsing in some way IE gambit or just fakeclaiming then having a srs guilty on one of my top townreads yes. If it was on someone I was scumreading I wouldn't have had an issue.

Okay... why would that make Fire's claim fake rather than the result flawed?

When I called the claim fake he was just claiming outright cop not "my cop result can be incorrect" and that is much more believable then an outright cop with a result on my top tr

[MariaR]

VOTE: MariaR

Fire Shoshin MariaR
Punreader SK

This game is coming together beautifully.

Pedit: If he can't be a cop >> You're a cop >> Ergo confirmed scum. It's a counterclaim. That's a thing.
That's also hyperbole. Examining reads is something everyone should be doing.

You can lynch me tomorrow but not today take your vote off me because it's taking info away from scum about Chara/me if you keep it on I'm considering it a scumclaim (even if I already sr your slot)

[MariaR]

Maria, what I mean is you had a lot of posts that didn't have any scumhunting purpose, like, "give me a 10," "nice to see I'm townread," "this is why I haven't been posting," "I'm town," type of posts.

Ah ok that's fair enough then. That's just how I act for the most part but I obv can't give any reason why it's more likely to come from town me (cause it's not)

[MariaR]

And yeah I believe there's no cop claims right now. Neither of them are acting like cops should act. I think they're using too much information and

trying to ride the cred.

Neither of me or fire are doing this. Fire is also not mech scum and the fact you keep ignoring that is telling

Cops don't usually say their results might be wrong when they claim, especially when they've been scumreading the person they got a guilty on.

You do when it's a guilty and the guy is getting run up to L-1 very fast. Cause then you get lynched when they flip town.

[MariaR]

Shepard unvote me in your next post I'm linked to Chara that is all you need to know we're not giving scum anymore info then that so unless you sr both me and Chara unvote.

[MariaR]

Pedit: If you're a cop then you'd be counter claiming or arguing there'd be two cops. It's pretty straight forward. Either vote Fire or you're full of shit.

I outright claimed that I'm not just a cop in the post you

claimed

to read.

Pedit2: Chara said your votes are linked. Are you linked some other way? I don't see a reason I shouldn't be voting my top scumread, especially when you don't actually vote who you scumread and instead vote me.

That's what me and Chara are trying to do hold the info we don't answer. We are linked vote wise maybe that's it maybe it's not we're not saying and if you tr Chara you should hold off on voting me. I also sr your slot hard I outright cased the slot you replaced into a page before you came in

[MariaR]

I don't really think that's true, Maria. I've never seen a cop qualify their result when its a guilty on a scumread. I'm also having trouble believing that you'd think Fire was scum just because he didn't qualify his result by saying it could be wrong, as if any result ever needs that qualification.

He handled the claim incorrectly Sho he gets a guilty or an inno depending on the rankings of the playerlist that is outright fact that the result can be wrong. So when fire comes up claims a guilty and only retracts it

after

I cc him you don't see the issue in this? I didn't believe he was a straightforward cop because I had that part of the role a rankings cop makes much more sense yes but at the time he was just outright saying he was a cop with a guilty.

[MariaR]

I don't really think that's true, Maria. I've never seen a cop qualify their result when its a guilty on a scumread. I'm also having trouble believing that you'd think Fire was scum just because he didn't qualify his result by saying it could be wrong, as if any result ever needs that qualification.

In this situation, it does need the qualification, though. It's strange not to, when you know that your result is going to be wrong depending on the rankings.

^^^^^^

[MariaR]

I said I'm not

just

a cop.

[MariaR]

Stop dodging my questions Commander thank you I'll restate them
1) Do you get how fire is not mech conf scum to me
2) Do you get why you shouldn't be voting me today
3) Do you now get that I'm not just a cop so me and fire aren't a cc.

[MariaR]

3) No I don't. If you used a cop ability then you're still counter claiming Fire.

How long have you played mafia?

[MariaR]

1) No I don't. If you think Fire is scum then you should be voting him. You're a claimed cop/invest/whatever. It's a fucking counterclaim.

2 Of the same role in a game isn't a counter claim first of all. Second of all that isn't even happening here because I'm not just a cop. Third of all I scumread you much more I cased your slot.

[MariaR]

3) No I don't. If you used a cop ability then you're still counter claiming Fire.

How long have you played mafia?

Long enough to know you're full of shit. This game is too small to support two cops and Fire's makes more sense than yours if I have to pick. I'd rather just use my machine gun to kill you but the moderator took all my bullets (sniff).

Pedit:
Yes it FUCKING IS WHEN IT'S A COP. Other roles fine. But a cop and a cop both the same night is crap.
yes you "cased" my slot. Waaaaaaaaaah you should be voting Fire. And until you do I want your fucking head.

So not long at all to know stuff about set ups ok I'll take this as NAI from you thank you.

[MariaR]

Maria, why'd you read Esp as town?

Before the cop claim? Honestly I forget I'll have to go back and look at quotes but his reaction to the guilty made any doubts I had go away

[MariaR]

He's scum pretty simple

[MariaR]

It's possible he's also faking how dumb he's acting and considering he's an alt that's the line of logic I'm leaning on at the moment

[MariaR]

You've made no point. You've said that 2 cops can't be in the same game where 1) there aren't even 2 cop claims I've said I'm dif then a cop boom your argument is wrong 2) there could be 2 cop claims.
Pretty simple

[MariaR]

lol I'm not attacking your points because they don't rise to the level of merit required of them to be attacked.

^^^

[MariaR]

Chara why can you never read me correctly like I can you

[MariaR]

You're breaking my heart </3

[MariaR]

I can't cop again Taly.

[MariaR]

I told you I auto bp myself tonight I have no choice

[MariaR]

VOTE: Penguin

[MariaR]

Cya all in the night.

[MariaR]

Reasons.

[MariaR]

don't give me that babe I'll tie the rope for you <3

[MariaR]

Chara why you looking at other people like dat..

[MariaR]

I CAN'T BELEIVE THIS

[MariaR]

anyway pp is flipping town

[MariaR]

MariaR, do you know if you were roleblocked?

I don't know. All I know was I was auto bp'd

[MariaR]

Do the number of 10s and 0 match up with what's been said so far? Perhaps we can catch a liar

[MariaR]

Vax is my cop inno Shepard you vote me before you vote my inno.

[MariaR]

This is a game that I am in yes.
Don't know where I want my vote out of CS or Sho I liked Sho more than CS the day before but CS is much better today

[MariaR]

all actions target the player who uses the light rod

[MariaR]

I'm voting commander if it's over shoshin but
VOTE: Fire

[MariaR]

Jokes on you EP you can't prod me I'm at 1 23

both wagons are good keep at it.

[MariaR]

and so the apathy sets in

[MariaR]

VOTE: Shepard

[MariaR]

no..just no

[MariaR]

. MariaR - non-consecutive night cop maybe??? BP after copping

you got that right

[MariaR]

For?

[MariaR]

Isn't fire's cop result random?

[MariaR]

I would rather lynch Commander today as I tr half the playerlist I don't really know what else we're waiting for and I'm rather bored at this point Shoshin still has explained only once in a single paragraph on D1 why I'm scum and when I answered back she said "wow that's pretty scummy too." so as much as I felt she's being towny she needs to step it up and get something done.

[MariaR]

The biggest selling point is Sho and Shepard don't seem like partners because if they were they'd fake the push and then both go after me and it doesn't seem like that's happening.
Pedit: Wouldn't it be better if I checked fire's cop result to see his sanity?

[MariaR]

I honestly haven't read a single DeasVail post so I have no words on that slot I just saw they voted me and I'm like "k"

[MariaR]

Fair

[MariaR]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

I kinda wanna give Shoshin a day and lynch Vax or DV here. Both get closer to what the fuck happened and are likely scum. I kinda wanna see what Shoshin is thinking and that doesn’t work if she is lynched.

Vax is my inno.
no touching

[MariaR]

If you want to lynch a vig your options are pun or pun.

Good thing Vax probably isn’t a vig thanks to my guilty

Unless you flip town sane cop I don’t give a damn about your inno when 3 vig isn’t a thing

Like Dunn or Vax conf scum
DeasVeil has his hands in all sorts of shit and just pops up whenever.

Like we need a flip in those three to figure this out or Maria.

If people need more to know why this slot is scum look no further

[MariaR]

zzzz why is sho scum?

[MariaR]

Pun is prob sk
Vax is my inno
only 1 of dunn/esp can vig

[MariaR]

If I had a drink for everytime Sho has said I'm scum without any reason I'd be in my grave at least twice

[MariaR]

Mfw I clear vax and everyone forgets it

[MariaR]

Also, @Maria, sorry I suspected you, you were actually awesome in retrospect and I was unfair to you. I started to realize when Shepard came into the game that you two couldn't be aligned but I was conf biased at that point, something I'll be watching out for in the future.

It's fine! We got the shep kill in the end so it all worked out I was gonna be rly salty if you got lynched with how obv town you were.