Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!
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northsidegal Survivor
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i can't even fathom how hypoclaiming watcher results would work
i mean, could you explain it to me - investigation innocents i can understand hypoclaiming. watcher results in an open setup like this i can't.-
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northsidegal Survivor
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why does it bother you to be townread for what you perceive to be the wrong reasons when you're town? even if the methods are incorrect, inaccurate or unreliable, aren't they arriving at the same correct conclusion either way? what's more, it would only beneft you in the games where you rolled scum, no?In post 22, GameNBurger wrote:Also nobody dare TR me for that I did a bunch of shitty math only to come to the conclusion that its business as usual as far as claiming goes
in my last game a bunch of people town read me simply for effort and It blew my fucking minds as to why
I put up with it because I was town and people were having a hard time reading me but I'd like to get it out there that effort is not a one to one correlation with scuminess
a lack of effort is a good indicator of scum but a presence of effort does not indicate town
i find it hard to understand your mindset here. i've seen people townread me in previous games for reasons that i would consider questionable but given that i was town anyways there i brushed it off. if i thought that the way someone townread me was suspicious then that would be something else entirely, but that's not what you're talking about here - so what's the deal?
it's not about whether or not sesq thinks that that question is AI or not - it would be about sesq thinking thatIn post 25, Keyser Söze wrote:
This was a page one question intended to be answered before we enter serious/non-RVS gameplay.In post 16, Sesq wrote:
please Please townread meIn post 13, Keyser Söze wrote:Anyone played this setup before?
I.e what’s the best way to play it... does hypoclaiming help town or scum?
And while we’re all saying hello, what are your opinions on how to deal with lurkers.
You shouldn’t see it as an attempt to look ‘townie’: it’s as non-alignment indicative as say a player asking if there is scum day chat - why are you being lazy/shortsighted?youthink that that question is likely to get you townread. i feel like your question misses the point.-
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northsidegal Survivor
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even if you take the position of not liking people townreading you for just doing math, wouldn't it make more sense to you to not make that comment right away and wait and see if someonedoestownread you for the math, to potentially scumhunt off of it? unless you think that it couldn't be AI, in which case i would ask again - why would you care about people (theoretically) being correct in townreading you but for the wrong reasons?-
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northsidegal Survivor
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there's no way i could possibly answer this question - it would come down to your own thoughts on the playerlist and whether or not you would think it would be townread, or just your thoughts on scum philosophy in general. i can't read your mind.In post 28, Keyser Söze wrote:Why would I think that question is alignment indicative and that it would win me town cred?
it's not so far outside the realm of possibility - i've seen plenty of comments of "he's getting us out of RVS, decently towny, don't see why scum does that, etc etc" before.In what universe do I win town points via those ‘LAMIST’ questions?
I’m not missing the point, I’m struggling to see how sesq is reaching for that scum-narrative.
i don't think it's that far of a logical stretch to see a post like yours and say that it's just a reach for town cred. i'm not necessarily agreeing with it - i'm just saying that it's not really unreasonable. can you at least agree that it's a valid thought process to have?-
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northsidegal Survivor
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something like that. it just rings kind of fake to me.In post 31, Keyser Söze wrote:Are you saying GNB is suspiciously being overly-conscious about being t/readfor a townie?
meh. i guess i don't really disagree, although i still think that what you said in 25 misses the point.In post 32, Keyser Söze wrote:“can you at least agree that it's a valid thought process to have?”
Northsidegal - I’ve already stated it was a lazy and shortsighted opinion to have. Unsure of the word “valid” though.-
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northsidegal Survivor
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what? i thought i was pretty clear, although looking now i guess i was less verbose than i had thought. yes, his thought process doesn't make sense to me as a real one, which would naturally imply that it's something made up - hence my saying it "rings kind of fake".-
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northsidegal Survivor
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would you mind giving me the short versIon before i take a full look through it?In post 52, GameNBurger wrote:Ya’ll can skim thru my last game if you want to see why what I said was a concern
this still feels pretty hollow as an explanation. again - you pointed it out before anyone even had the chance to say anything. i would understand pointing it out if someone else were being townread for what you think are bad reasons, but i sill can't understand saying it about a townread on yourself.I’m a firm believer in that a strong smart town is what wins games so I try to point out things I think are idiotic-
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northsidegal Survivor
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don't you think it's a little early to be saying something like this?In post 79, Irrelephant11 wrote:It's the lack of content from a player that has shown up that I find interesting-
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northsidegal Survivor
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in moments like that i find it best to just sit back for a little bit and let the people who you're waiting for / looking at just enter the thread naturally, without any idea that they're being scrutinizedIn post 83, Irrelephant11 wrote:just trying to find anything to talk about, really-
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northsidegal Survivor
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if you're trying to catch someone, isn't it best to not let them know that you're looking in the first place?
eh, probably doesn't matter much.-
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northsidegal Survivor
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hello everyone! sorry, been a little bit busy and i'd rather sit down to look at this game than just skim it and try to respond from my phone
i can say right now that i'm fairly confident in ausuka being town-
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northsidegal Survivor
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dunnstral seems kind of scummy right now, so that's a good a place as any for a vote.
i remember someone asking or pondering upon why i wasn't voting GNB if i was apparently scumreading him, and while i didn't and still don't really understand the mindset of what he was saying, it didn't really ping me as all that scum indicative on an instintcutal level.
anyways,
VOTE: dunnstral-
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northsidegal Survivor
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how accurate would you say you are when it comes to reading keyser? i just want to know your degree of confidence here.In post 155, Kop wrote:I think Keyser is town from the quick glancing I made. I have played with Keyser quite a bit under a different alias on another website, and kinda know what his town game is, and what his scum game is. Unless his game play is different over here compared to over on the other website I play with him, but at the moment, I am getting his town game play from what I've seen so far.
on a different note, kop's staccato sentences with all of the commas are standing out to me. from memory i don't really remember him talking like that, although i could certainly be wrong here. i'm going to check for myself soon (if not right after this then this should serve as a reminder), but does anyone else who's played with kop remember that?-
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saying that my opinion is "commas are scummy" is an utter misrepresentation of what i'm trying to sayIn post 173, Dunnstral wrote:For real though I've got no clue what Kop's normal posting style is like - why do you think the commas are AI?
he's typing in an awkward manner and it's an awkward manner that i'm not sure i remember him doing in the games i've seen him as town
not sure how you could frame that as my opinion being "commas are scummy"-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i quite plainly said that from memory the commas were different than what i remember him talking like normally
if someone's posting differently as compared to how you expect them to, how wouldn't that be AI?-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i began a response to this a day or so ago but never finished itIn post 176, Dunnstral wrote:I mean, that looks like exactly what you're saying here, except replace that with "Kop's commas are scummy"
the statement "kop's commas are scummy" implies that in a vacuum i think that the use of commas is scum-indicative (patently absurd). the punctuation itself is secondary to my main point - i noticed a stylistic difference between the way someone was typing here and the way that i remember that same person typing in a previous game as scum. i don't think anyone would possibility dispute that that has a very good chance of being in some way meaningful.
-shrug-
you're being far less reasonable than i typically expect you to be, and i'm not sure if i should take it as scum-indicative or not-
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northsidegal Survivor
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In post 182, 2 718281828459 wrote:I see nothing that is worth my attention.In post 183, Irrelephant11 wrote:then make somethingwhy do you think that comment warrants a vote? very interested in your thought process here - perhaps this won't hold true for e*12 as a person specifically, but i would always imagine that scum in that situation would either post nothing at all or would try to come up with something they don't actually care about to talk about in order to look engaged. i actually townread him for that comment.
it reminds me of the way blackstar played in open 728, if anyone cares at all. if someone wants me to elaborate on this i can.-
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northsidegal Survivor
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wasn't much of a "theory" in the first place, nor something to "buy into" before more research was done. despite how dunnstral may want you to look at it, it was really only ever something that stuck out to me as being potentially a thing / relevant, hence my asking anyone else for information. honestly, i still haven't done the meta on kop that i wanted to.In post 187, Keyser Söze wrote:Not sure I buy into NSG’s “staccato sentence/comma” theory - unless you can clearly show Kop only posting this style as scum, I think it’s too reachy for my taste.
ah, the mathdino-style reads. i love it!In post 206, Irrelephant11 wrote:Because NSG is hard townreading you and one of the following is true:
-She's town and probably correct
-She's scum and correct
-You're both scum <--- in this situation, I have no useful reads on any players, so I'm assuming it's not this-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i vaguely remember irrelephant having a very good scumgame which makes me hesitant to do this but i think i'd like to townread him for the string of posts starting at around 200 maybe-
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northsidegal Survivor
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it angers me the way dunnstral has framed my argument, genuinely.-
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mainly i felt like -nothing- he was saying early was actually town indicative, which on its own might not make that much sense (not noticing towny things = scum?) but i feel like it's relevant. if someone is town thwn i would expect that they would show it in some way. here's what i mean (aka my shitty mathdino-style "lolcase" that will, going off of previous experience, get me either scumread or into a very stupid argument that lasts longer than it should):In post 277, the worst wrote:
wHYIn post 170, northsidegal wrote:dunnstral seems kind of scummy right now, so that's a good a place as any for a vote.
Spoiler:-
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northsidegal Survivor
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-shrug-
i think there are a few posts in his iso that might be vague towntells (going off of previous experience from mini normal 2005) but i'm not actually sure if they're reliably town-indicative for dunnstral-
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northsidegal Survivor
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anyways, i feel as if this game i'm just going to try to get a towncore and go off of poe mainly
town:
northsidegal
2.718281828459 (unfortunate you didn't replace into this slot ducky, i think it's town)
Ausuka
Keyser Söze (presuming i can trust kop on keyser's alignment and just for now - keyser is someone who i plan to do more meta on when i get the energy or when someone bothers me about it enough)
Irrelephant11
that leaves:
{volxen, the worst, Dunnstral, Reundo, Toranaga, Kop}
which feels vaguely alright in terms of a poe-
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northsidegal Survivor
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oh yeah, i echo this,
@mod. i think a deadline extension is warranted, not just the freezing.-
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northsidegal Survivor
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another thing (sorry for the spamposting:)
@volxen:how much mafia experience do you have? do you know the ducky...?-
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northsidegal Survivor
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next up onIn post 286, Reundo wrote:but for now I'll say that I think volxen's case against active lurkers is hypocritical considering he's been active lurking as well for the most part.™ - we'll be taking a note out of mathdino's book and we'll be townreading hypocrisy!nsg's guide tolazylow-effortvery accurate reads!!!
after all, i would personally imagine that newbie scum (assuming volxen is a newbie) would feel self-conscious about trying to push someone for something that he himself knows he's doing. of course, that's assuming that volxen recognizes his own inactivity, but i think we can take that to be true given this:In post 216, volxen wrote:I've been busy with work, I will respond more tomorrow.-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i could definitely see sesq being scum hereIn post 296, the worst wrote:I quite liked 117 from Dunn, I feel he's like totally capable of more as town and I'm looking forward to a lot more from him but I felt like his vote on Sesq was kinda bold at that point. I'm not really seeing anything town indicative in Sesq's ISO and kinda grumpy-poe-scumreading them though so maybe we're just on opposite ends of a swing saw there.
i wouldn't exactly say i have much experience with sesq but from the one game i read from her as town there was a lot more aggression i remember (like alot)-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i still think e*12's not caring about his image makes him town (like blackstar in that game you were scum in)In post 299, the worst wrote:I kinda want to swap Dunn and E/2.71 in your PoE but otherwise we're pretty close stance wise. I can't find a reason to like E yet.
though maybe you're scum for putting your name in your town list.....
hmm interesting take on Volx/Reundo. I want to read them as not scum together fwiw
speaking of that game, if you're scum here i'm going to make up for being too vauge in my scumread of you in that game. watch out
anyways, this is as much for myself as it is for anyone else who cares, but here's a scumgame from e*12:
scum
here's two towngames (both replacements it looks like):
town1
town1-
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northsidegal Survivor
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seems as good a vote as any to meIn post 302, the worst wrote:Yeah same here from Uhhhhhhh Viomi's fire and ice Sesq was memorable and I tr'd them almost as much as I tr'd skitter there at one point. it definitely feels like they're playing it safe here
shall we?
VOTE: sesq
interested in your reasoning on keyser being townIn post 303, the worst wrote:Kop is an interesting slot for me to parse rn
I kinda have this unspoken "mmmm alright" response to all of his posts. I guess he's probably unlikely to be scum with Keyser but Keyser is probably just town so I'm so comfortably numb there.
In post 304, the worst wrote:
comfortably null*In post 303, the worst wrote:comfortably numb
I phone post slower than I get distractedSpoiler:-
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northsidegal Survivor
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by the way, just realized i accidentally deleted sesq from thisIn post 293, northsidegal wrote:{volxen, the worst, Dunnstral, Reundo, Toranaga, Kop}
so it should be:
{sesq, volxen, the worst, Dunnstral, Reundo, Toranaga, Kop}
i guess it could be possible. one of those things to look at post-game, i supposethe worst wrote:though interestingly while reading page 11 for the first time, before i read the rest of the game, i had this weird prophetic insight that {Keyser, Rel, Kop} was T/T/T
having said that i'm a waterbird not a prophet so the fuck do I know-
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wouldn't that have just made things easy?
although i guess it'd be more fun if i was town, assuming you're town, of course-
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northsidegal Survivor
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there were a few mini normals, but that was ruby and not me, so you're right
didn't think it had been that long!-
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-shrug-
i'm not particularly concerned about him yet, so i think it's probably fine. i might just tunnel sesq for today and leave it at that.
the worst wrote:shame there's no trackers in this setup
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by the way, can we um talk about this:In post 151, 2 718281828459 wrote:(the 6 is not related to anything in particular)Code: Select all
Neutral ___________ Scum / 3 4 5 \ Town Lean / 2 6 \ Lean / / \ / 1 / 7 \ | / | Scum 0 / 8 Town ---------O---------
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northsidegal Survivor
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so when you say "on this site", do you have off-site experience (if you don't mind me asking)? have you read a lot of games on ms?In post 321, volxen wrote:
This is my second game on this site, with the other game being a newbie game. And I've played Mafia twice IRL. Yes, I've briefly known The Worst.In post 295, northsidegal wrote:another thing (sorry for the spamposting:)
@volxen:how much mafia experience do you have? do you know the ducky...?-
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northsidegal Survivor
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yeah, haven taken another look i think i'm pretty alright with calling the e*12 slot town.
it's fine, you just seemed very used to a lot of the terminology so i was wondering.In post 324, volxen wrote:No, I don't have any offsite experience. I'm new to this. I have spent quite a lot of time reading (and rereading) through theory and articles on the MafiaScum.net wiki, but I haven't actually read through a completed game from start to finish. I'd like to, but right now I really just have time for this game.-
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northsidegal Survivor
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nice! i myself was a frequent reader of old games before i played my first game. when i started playing it was kind of surreal (and still is, honestly) getting to interact with these people who were in the games games i had read who were like characters right out of a book, always in unique and usually funny situations and always with an intriguing mystery to try to figure out before it got revealed at the end.In post 326, volxen wrote: That's all thanks to the MafiaScum.net wiki
In post 327, the worst wrote:wolfy-
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northsidegal Survivor
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you seem hesitant / noncommittedIn post 359, Irrelephant11 wrote:I’ll vote Sesq if that’s the lynch
why vote sesq if there are people you prefer? or, if sesq is your top preference, why so noncommittal?-
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northsidegal Survivor
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also, hello huntress! it's been too long!
i can relate. to the second part, mostly.In post 346, Sesq wrote:the reason i was aggressive in earlier games is because i was an angry weird child and now am i unable to put passion into anything at all
including this game
volxens town
UNVOTE:-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i've definitely gotten angry here before. and i am young.-
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????In post 385, Dunnstral wrote:tinfoil theory: Eragon is scum and his partner(s) felt the need to welcome him in thread to try to seem like they're not talking in pt
Not a serious theory jsut something to consider I guess-
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honestly i've still yet to actually look into it to confirm, so if you're asking if my memory has suddenly changed, it hasn't.-
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you mean to wash up on shore again? (the joke is that i'm washed up)In post 726, the worst wrote:waiting for Nauci to catch up and nsg to descend from the heavens once more
anyways, hello. i'm somewhat disappointed in myself for not voting scum, but it's alright. updated reads (mostly from memory) - i think the ducky is town because i think scum ducky would go for more distancing from volxen, which i don't remember seeing. i think maybe i townread ausuka too quickly, though i'm not sure (again, entirely from memory).
um, i think that's it for what i wanted to say, at least before i read anything.-
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northsidegal Survivor
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oh, uh
i think dunnstral is scum again (again? still? honestly cannot remember what conclusion i came to yesterday)-
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northsidegal Survivor
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@keyser soze, what's your game experience with huntress like?-
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from day one? don't really remember it much, honestly.In post 740, the worst wrote:Nsg nsg nsg what did you think of Ausuka's vca and interactions with volxen? but also her posting?-
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-shrug-In post 747, Toranaga wrote:but in a post that's overrall towny and from a perspective that NSG has no reason to believe it comes from scum.
it sounds like we just disagree on whether or not that's actually towny. that's to say nothing of my current read on tw or even what my read on GNB was - just whether or not GNB's original posts were town indicative or not.-
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i mean i made it clear later that i never voted GNB because nothing of what he said ever actually seemed scummy to me - it was just something that didn't make sense to me. is it unreasonable to try to elicit more from a statement that you don't think makes sense? i don't think so - even if i don't end up scumread that person, it at least gets the game moving.-
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where did he say that it made things harder for him? as far as i understood it, it was just something that bothered him, and something that he didn't think would hold true for anything. which raises the question (at least, in my mind), if someone comes to a correct conclusion but through an incorrect method, should you really bother making a huge deal about it?In post 749, Toranaga wrote:GNB just said that, in last game when he was town, everyone started just townreading him on effort and that made things harder for him in that game. so naturally he doesn't want the same thing to repeat itself and end up in a similar situation. why is that fake? and why would he fake it? he is already being pretty LAMIST-y without saying he doesn't want a townread, so adding this part and referring to a game in which the same thing probably did happen just doesn't read at all like something he is faking, and IDK why that's how you're reading into this.
obviously if someone uses that method to townread someone else that'd be something to raise alarm about if you don't think the method is valid. however, you know your own alignment (presumably town), and so the reason for someone townreading you doesn't really matter much as long as they're right (and as long as you don't think the reason that this hypothetical person has come up with is scum-indicative in itself, if that makes sense).
i think you may have misinterpreted my use of the word "fake". i didn't use it to imply that he waslyingor misrepresenting the situation in some other game - not at all. i used it in terms of describing his thought process, which didn't make sense to me as actually coming from town. i have no doubts that what he said about getting townread in that other game was actually true.-
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-shrug-In post 751, Toranaga wrote:you're townreading TW yes?
i'm not scumreading him at the moment, and like i said i would imagine that if he were scum who bussed volxen he would've gone for more scum theater, which i don't recall (speaking purely from memory)
i think dunnstral's day one could easily be seen in the context of being partnered with volxenIn post 752, Toranaga wrote:NSG, why do you think dunn is scum and why are you townreading ausuka?
i think he has yet to do anything actually town-indicative
i think he's disengaged in a way that may be more scum-indicative
and, on more specific levels:
i think this post is scum indicativeIn post 385, Dunnstral wrote:tinfoil theory: Eragon is scum and his partner(s) felt the need to welcome him in thread to try to seem like they're not talking in pt
Not a serious theory jsut something to consider I guess
and i still think that he was being entirely unreasonable when it came to representing what i was actually trying to say regarding Kop. i think town dunnstral is normally pretty reasonable, so the lack of that raises alarm for me.-
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getting townread and people ignoring your posts are two entirely different issuesIn post 754, Toranaga wrote:also... I was in that game. I know why he was bothered. basically, no one liked much of what GNB said but it was so many words it was hard to think it ever came from scum. I think that annoyed him cause people started to clear him without interacting with his posts in any meaningful way.
if your posts getting ignored is what upsets you then it makes sense to make comments regarding that. getting townread for reasons you believe are invalid is entirely unrelated to that subject matter.-
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if there's somewhere specific you want to end up with in this debate then i would be interested to hear it
barring that i don't think it's actually particularly productive to continue this discussion.-
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what is your actual read on dunnstral? it's seemed to jump around quite a lot recently.In post 782, Toranaga wrote:so good at mafia, this kid
I'll literally let you tell me which one of dunn/ausuka is best today, I think you're leaning dunn and that's fine by me tbh
I did like his ausuka wolfread a lot on d1/today and I like that he mocked NSG as a towny thing to be doing
speaking of which
VOTE: dunnstral-
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northsidegal Survivor
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bolded is unambiguously wrongIn post 788, Dunnstral wrote:I think the one being unreasonable is you since I don't think you ever went back and checked if what you were saying was truebut kept pushing for it
furthermore the discussion was regarding whether or not what i was looking atcouldeven be ai in the first place, which you said / implied could not be the case - your argument was never one regarding kop specifically, and neither was mine beyond my initial post-
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northsidegal Survivor
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did you miss the part where i said i hadn't caught up on the game until then?In post 789, Dunnstral wrote:
I don't even think I was posting so it's weird that you bring this up here to be honestIn post 734, northsidegal wrote:oh, uh
i think dunnstral is scum again (again? still? honestly cannot remember what conclusion i came to yesterday)-
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northsidegal Survivor
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what makes you think i'm notIn post 794, Irrelephant11 wrote:nsg are you caught up yet-
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northsidegal Survivor
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northsidegal Survivor
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not exactly townreading him but don't have all that specific reasons to scumread him either. waiting on his explanation for his dunn readIn post 798, Irrelephant11 wrote:Okay hi great I'm catching up what do you think of Tora rn?
how did your golf tournament go?In post 799, Eragon wrote:oh my god im the most awesomest FM player ever(complete /s)
i definitley didnt fall asleep at my desk, wake up and shut down my computer, losing all the open windows, then went to my golf tournement and forgot about everything.
Truly, none of this actually happened. (/s)