Oh sorry I misinterpreted your wording of "requires one to be the watcher" I get it now and agreeIn post 1498, Toranaga wrote:he claimed watcher, remember?In post 1492, Nauci wrote:areIn post 1446, Toranaga wrote:knowing volxen is scum requires one to be the watcher, or scum.In post 1432, Eragon wrote:why would he be killed for giving off TMI??In post 1410, Toranaga wrote:I'm impressed you weren't NKed n1 with the amount of TMI posting that volxen was scum at that EOD
isnt TMI bad?
are you a time traveler
so if you're the watcher you might behave like TW
Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!
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In post 1495, Nauci wrote:Not enough time to rally a keyser wagon
I'll save you time: I'm not scum.In post 1499, Nauci wrote:NO ONE HAMMER DUNN I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF MY KEYSER POST
You don't know me.
I know you though.- Nauci
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Finally reading Keyser scum games lol
Subject: Mini Normal 1888 - TwoFace Mafia - Game Over
Gosh this post feels familiarKeyser Söze wrote:
I currently have one uncompleted game with him.In post 164, Eddie Cane wrote:you haven't played with transcend much have you
I am currently on this page as part of my catch-up.In post 173, Barleycorn wrote:i like transcend and want to sheep him. i don't like reading keyser's posts and get little from them when i do. i also don't like that keyser didn't interact with my 159
I will 'interact' with you as part of my natural catch-up.
I have not ignored anything/anyone so far.
Keyser Söze wrote:
"Weird"?In post 174, Barleycorn wrote:keyser's interaction with dog was weird. everyone reading really far into dog's reaction to the fire wagon is weird.
I think my analysis on that was explicit and insightful thank you very much.
Lot's of dialogue has been expressed on dog's reaction/fire's wagon, so me sharing my own stance on it is not "weird" or irrational.
Is this scum-keyser lampshading how he makes LAMIST posts as scum? There's SO much self meta in Scum Keyser games wowKeyser Söze wrote:
Yes, I was wondering why you were projecting your newb-scum-tell on him - if you dug up his "past games" this could explain why you didn't follow up with your suspicion with a VOTE. IN general, 'LAMIST' is null for me (I get s/read alot for people thinking my pro-town posts are meIn post 43, DogWatch wrote:I'm saying if he's scum then it's NOT a noob scum tell, as evidenced by his past posts. that's just his style of posting regardless. It just initially caught my eye because Lamist in my experience often is a noob scum tell.. but I also haven't played a game in 9 years, so my readings can be outdated.trying-to-look-townie).
The game has only begun.In post 44, DogWatch wrote:Fire has three votes now with zero reasoning behind them.Can the three of you explain?We're getting out of the rvs stage at this point.
I think the above can be catorgorized as LAMIST
We are in RVS.
Why did you expect those three to have deep/supporting reasons for their naked RVS votes?
I agree here, in theory, 'scum' will more likely choose to defend a 'townie' when the wagon/scum-case has more reasoning and substance (then they reap the greater town-cred). Thinking scum would defend an empty RVS wagon on town is a bit too far-fetched for me. I'd be more concerned with players defending players at the meaty end of the game.In post 54, aronagrundy wrote:Exactly, which is why his defense lacks substance. If it's going to dissipate anyway, is anyone really going to give him towncred for defending your wagon?
I also never said dog was scum. I've wanted to start a wagon and felt like fucking with him
He's super not shy about town reading/defending scum teammates (Eddie Cane and DogWatch) in this game. It's honestly amazing how bold-faced it is. Even his case on another player is a defense of his scum partner?
Not to mention all the defensive or LAMIST posts almost to the point of gaslighting and misrepping (here, Transcend said the stalled wagon on keyser meant he's scum because scum would love the chance to wagon town-keyser, and keyser says he was making up a narrative because there were multiple stalled wagons. Except they weren't on scary tryhard players like keyser, which keyser actively ignored as transcend's point).
I ran out of words to link to his gaslighting, defensiveness, et al so here are some more because every other post is defensive.
Oh and being suspicious of anyone who scumreads him even a little
Keyser do you always quote other people's scum cases of you as scum in attempts to undermine them, because I'm getting deja vu hereKeyser Söze wrote:In post 288, Barleycorn wrote:what was this case?
I think I am the only person reading the threadIn post 289, Barleycorn wrote:i think you're full of ****!
"171 is a scum claim btw"
"i don't like reading keyser's posts and get little from them when i do. i also don't like that keyser didn't interact with my 159"
"keyser's interaction with dog was weird."
"i didn't understand your motivations"
"I'm paranoid he's buddying up to me"
"Excellent. Two obv town here. Massive resistance. Scum would love to run up a town!keyser"
"gerryoat - Keyser Söze (L-6). Lol"
Then your recent suggested/hinted scum-feel to add as the cherry on top of the cake:
"keyser feels slimy"
All items that players were trying to suggest were scum-indicative. I'm so "slimy" none of those accusations stuck
[FYI: I refer all scum-feels, observations of suspicion/paranoia/VCA/scum-read reasons as a growing/developing 'scum-case' on a slot]
I think I have answered all allegations on my slot efficiently, with comfortable fluency and articulation
I took most offense to the"Massive resistance"accusation Transcend was trying to portray.
...or use the term "teammate"Keyser Söze wrote:
In regard FireScreamer's point:In post 300, Barleycorn wrote:ok you're not full of shit. but i don't think transcend is either.
would you agree this is an example of resistance?In post 219, FireScreamer wrote:
You are not going to get 6 other people to agree with Gut. You know this and are not trying. Which means you are putting on a show and I wonder why.In post 161, Transcend wrote:Gut
- I actually agreed with him there. No one will support your push on player if you're only saying "Player X is scum. Why? Gut lolz." If you don't add the supporting argument to your case you're not going to convince your teammates to lynch your scum-read.
- Plus, Transcend's play this game is an easy playstyle to hide behind as both town AND scum, so I understand the "putting on a show" observation.
I.e keep posting short and cute reads/votes... but not offer anything tangible along with it.
I feel like FireScreamer shared my suspicion on Transcend's intentional null/hard-to-read playstyle.
In regard the 'massive resistance' point:
- Re-reading it, I can see how this could be indirect DEFENSE (FireScreamer changing the focus from me to Transcend)
- HOWEVER, "massive resistance" is still too much of an excessive/OTT/hyperbole expression.
I agree that my lynch was not mass-supported.
However, lack of support does not equal "massive resistance".
Agree?
TL;DR of just that one game: Keyser plays a beautiful scum game that's totally counter to site meta. Spends tons of time being defensive, prefers to not bus teammates unless necessary/inevitable, OMGUS votes a lot, shades people with extremely skilled manipulation and questioning, and has a... gaslighty tone?
Up next: examples from this game of him doing these things (that condescending/accusatory/defensive tone just constantly agitated me, even when I didn't have logical reasons to dislike a post). I didn't react to ANY of his American Presidents posts this way, while almost every post he made in that game and this game feel exactly the same.- Nauci
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I like when you post a condescending gaslighty defensive comment at me right before I was about to point out that scum-you does thisIn post 1501, Keyser Söze wrote:In post 1495, Nauci wrote:Not enough time to rally a keyser wagon
I'll save you time: I'm not scum.In post 1499, Nauci wrote:NO ONE HAMMER DUNN I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF MY KEYSER POST
You don't know me.
I know you though.
I think this makes things easier- Nauci
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Everything about Keyser's pushes and cases in American Presidents felt like reactions and analysis to me, while those 2 games (oh and this one) I'd describe his pushes more as "shading." Oh and for some reason he uses way more :emoticons: andformattingI think- Keyser Söze
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So after pages and pages and pages of defending Dunnstral, you're willing to do a total 180 for no reason right after I said I am in the middle of casing you?In post 1497, Keyser Söze wrote:
I may need to go back on my promise.In post 1359, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: Eragon
Probably gonna stay here for the rest of D2.
Dunnstral vs Eragon wagons competing makes most sense in my reads universe. Not going to give any town-scum, scum-scum association theory until we see a flip.
VOTE: Dunnstral
Sorry mate. I needed more tangible town motivation in your ISO to defend you with. In the end, I’ll have to concede and say WIFOM isn’t going to outweigh the surface level scummy actions in your D1/D2 behaviour. I hope to play again with you, but hopefully it’s in a game that engages/excites you.
Let’s end Day 2.
Really?
Let's be real: that was not a thought out and cased flip on Dunnstral. That was a black and white obvious switch to Dunnstral because I'm willing to lynch there instead of you and even said so.
I can't even see a universe where town Keyser makes 1496 here, with the threat to replace out.
Guys, this is caught scum and you know it. VOTE: Keyser Söze if he flips green I'll use whatever non-forum-rule-breaking avatar Keyser chooses for the rest of 2018.
PEdit: Keyser you can fake the things you do as town, like evaluate each players' cases one by one and make nuanced observations, but almost no one can change tone and attitude. That'd be a more convincing defense if I didn't see you as town for a long time and see a completely different personality.
Calling me pathetic and telling me to save my time and NOT case you is pro-town... how?- Keyser Söze
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The only person who knows my true scum and town game replaced out (Kop).In post 1503, Nauci wrote:
I like when you post a condescending gaslighty defensive comment at me right before I was about to point out that scum-you does thisIn post 1501, Keyser Söze wrote:In post 1495, Nauci wrote:Not enough time to rally a keyser wagon
I'll save you time: I'm not scum.In post 1499, Nauci wrote:NO ONE HAMMER DUNN I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF MY KEYSER POST
You don't know me.
I know you though.
I think this makes things easier
Don’t think you know me through these limited games.
This is me helping you, not me trying to survive.- Nauci
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I have allowed you to case me. . But you’re now scraping the barrel talking about emoticons and formatting. You are diseased with confirm bias Nauci.In post 1508, Nauci wrote:
So after pages and pages and pages of defending Dunnstral, you're willing to do a total 180 for no reason right after I said I am in the middle of casing you?In post 1497, Keyser Söze wrote:
I may need to go back on my promiseIn post 1359, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: Eragon
Probably gonna stay here for the rest of D2.
Dunnstral vs Eragon wagons competing makes most sense in my reads universe. Not going to give any town-scum, scum-scum association theory until we see a flip.
VOTE: Dunnstral
Sorry mate. I needed more tangible town motivation in your ISO to defend you with. In the end, I’ll have to concede and say WIFOM isn’t going to outweigh the surface level scummy actions in your D1/D2 behaviour. I hope to play again with you, but hopefully it’s in a game that engages/excites you.
Let’s end Day 2.
Really?
Let's be real: that was not a thought out and cased flip on Dunnstral. That was a black and white obvious switch to Dunnstral because I'm willing to lynch there instead of you and even said so.
I can't even see a universe where town Keyser makes 1496 here, with the threat to replace out.
Guys, this is caught scum and you know it. VOTE: Keyser Söze if he flips green I'll use whatever non-forum-rule-breaking avatar Keyser chooses for the rest of 2018.
PEdit: Keyser you can fake the things you do as town, like evaluate each players' cases one by one and make nuanced observations, but almost no one can change tone and attitude. That'd be a more convincing defense if I didn't see you as town for a long time and see a completely different personality.
Calling me pathetic and telling me to save my time and NOT case you is pro-town... how?
Me changing my vote to Dunnstral is not scummy. I have tried to put my points across in a clear manner.
I clearly expressed why I was not town reading Eragon.
It shows my frustration at this game. I’m allowed to do a 180, it’s called being humble.
It shows my frustration at you calling my defence of Dunnstral “shallow”.
This game is only interesting for me if Dunnstral flips scum now. Otherwise, I’m out.- Keyser Söze
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I’ll take you up on that avatar bet thoughIn post 1510, Nauci wrote:VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze- Nauci
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Btw this is one of those posts that put Reundo firmly into never-lynch territoryIn post 387, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.
His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.
Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.
Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.- Keyser Söze
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I agree that I shouldn’t have made this post (it’s not pro-town)In post 1501, Keyser Söze wrote:In post 1495, Nauci wrote:Not enough time to rally a keyser wagon
I'll save you time: I'm not scum.In post 1499, Nauci wrote:NO ONE HAMMER DUNN I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF MY KEYSER POST
You don't know me.
I know you though.
It’s childish but it’s exactly what I’m feeling.- Nauci
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TW could be scum, taking the opportunity to counter-wagonIn post 308, the worst wrote:you have me so pocketed rn
VOTE: Sesq
i think i owe E a meta dive, i might have my read on him completely upside down- Keyser Söze
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Yep, I noted 3 great uppercuts from Reundo on Volxen from D1. #pivotalIn post 1513, Nauci wrote:
Btw this is one of those posts that put Reundo firmly into never-lynch territoryIn post 387, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.
His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.
Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.
Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.
Spoiler:- Nauci
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In post 981, Nauci wrote: -395 based on vc 1.13 I want to say that I don’t know how I feel about the sesq wagon but am going to re-skim for who became complacent/quiet after the cw popped up (sadly, this is most relevant to Volxen)[/spoiler]
Not sure if I can really evaluate who was complacent during the sesq wagon, but I credit Reundo and Toranga with hard steering it back onto volxen highly unnecessarily, with Reundo having the full credit of creating it in the first place. TW's vote made it officially a flash wagon, but I don't give it as much credit.In post 344, Flicker wrote:Votecount 1.11
Sesq (4)- Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, the worst 308, volxen 330
volxen (4)- Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Ausuka 239
Toranaga (1)- Irrelephant 255
[2 718281828459] (1)- Kop 194
Not voting: Toranaga 110, [2 718281828459] 151
The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).
I gave ausuka credit because she first joined it in a very normal town empty vote to make pressure wagons manner, and same with sesq, before joining the flash wagon at the end of the day. Not sure if I should give as much credit as I do here, but it's what my gut feels?- Nauci
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That was a super minor side note in my overall case. If you want to refute it, you'll have to link me town games where over half of your posts were defensive to the point of manipulation.In post 1511, Keyser Söze wrote: I have allowed you to case me. . But you’re now scraping the barrel talking about emoticons and formatting. You are diseased with confirm bias Nauci.- Keyser Söze
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Defensiveness is not scummy.In post 1519, Nauci wrote:
That was a super minor side note in my overall case. If you want to refute it, you'll have to link me town games where over half of your posts were defensive to the point of manipulation.In post 1511, Keyser Söze wrote: I have allowed you to case me. . But you’re now scraping the barrel talking about emoticons and formatting. You are diseased with confirm bias Nauci.
I may write a book on this, after this game.
[I will reply to all your points before the day finishes though in ONE post (as a bookmark you can refer to for this game and all future games).]
For now, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Dunn/TW/Eragon (not me).- Nauci
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=30260]The scum game from Toranga I skimmed didn't really help me read him. Seems like he is active and posts very genuine sounding scum hunting as scum, so my read of him is basically entirely due to volxen interactions/votes. :<- Nauci
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I hadn't fleshed out my notes on TW but otherwise commented on all 3 already.In post 1520, Keyser Söze wrote:
Defensiveness is not scummy.In post 1519, Nauci wrote:
That was a super minor side note in my overall case. If you want to refute it, you'll have to link me town games where over half of your posts were defensive to the point of manipulation.In post 1511, Keyser Söze wrote: I have allowed you to case me. . But you’re now scraping the barrel talking about emoticons and formatting. You are diseased with confirm bias Nauci.
I may write a book on this, after this game.
[I will reply to all your points before the day finishes though in ONE post (as a bookmark you can refer to for this game and all future games).]
For now, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Dunn/TW/Eragon (not me).
PEdit: GUH the way ISO links are sometimes formatted breaks tags and I have to manually edit them but I didn't catch that one and now it's an ugly post :<
Mmmk it's 6 AM apparently and I should sleep good luck y'all- Nauci
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This is true, but it can be scummy in the context that it was the bulk of your posting in lieu of scum hunting, with the tone you used while doing it, and compared to other gamesIn post 1520, Keyser Söze wrote: Defensiveness is not scummy.- Irrelephant11
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I'm sliiiightly overgamed but I will answer this as soon as I'm ableIn post 1518, Nauci wrote:Irrelephant since it's no longer the weekend: I expect effort posts again! By which I mostly mean, what do you think of my case on Keyser? - Irrelephant11
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- Keyser Söze
- Keyser Söze
- Nauci
- Nauci
- Nauci
- Keyser Söze
- Nauci