Mini Normal 2030: Day 8

[Mister Rogers]

I am always willing to lynch fakeclaims. THe only argument I have seen in thread to lynch Crimson is how a claim of Doc interrelkates with other unconfirmed claims and the game setup. That will NEVER be the reason to lynch a claimed town PR. If there is a better case that I have missed I need to hear it.

How can YOU ask this question when you see how scummy The Worst's claim is? Don't you obviously agree that The Worst is a better lynch than Crimson?

I mean (I am not saying this) EVEN if we just loke at the two claims on proveability, The Worst is better because he never has to prove his role until LYLO with all sorts of WIFOM results available at his choosing -- REMEMBER he chose this as a fake claim before and that's the reason.

With all the heat I am getting over this, what am I missing here, I mean seriously?

[Mister Rogers]

Ok I get how Vig and GS go together. So I get how we can very quickly prove the vig part and that is a good reason to leave Worst alone now at least for the day.

I have actual scum suspects apart from a claimed town PR based on their actual play this game.

WTH would anyone want to lynch a town Doc today, I mean seriously. There is ZERO evidence that he is fakeclaiming. Look I heard someone else say the same thing I have been thinking: "He is a great D3 lynch if his role has not yet been proven". Lynching him today is simply FAIL.

[Performer]

a50: you made a super specific "if creat is scum or mason, he plays like this" before his mason claim - this just sounds fabricated. creat later claimed mason unprovoked on d1 - still scummy with tw as far as I know, based on play alone.

As for why rogers would go after krazy his neighbor instead of pocketing him , my guess is LAMIST. Asking for people to reduce # of posts could be another LAMIST attempt. His continued push on my slot's death is scummy for sure.

Your point of him picking a fight with FL & tw is NAI to me . Anyone could do that.

I've gotten very uncomfortable with your slot, I thought you were town a50 . Are you town this game??..
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as for all these claims on d1
absolutely there is someone L Y I N G. ABSOLUTELY.
this G A I M is messsed U P

[Performer]

To where I was caught up, my strongest town reads are Rogers and almost. I'm fine with doing what you want here.

You were not like this in the 2 town games, I recall you being proactive, sort of a town leader.

Whoa disregard posts 3027 and 3028 entirely please. I completely forgot that we got a time extension. Those two posts were in the context of expecting that the deadline was within the next few minutes. Going to catch up now and finish this day out normally. Again, please disregard 3027 and 3028.

Your play in those games was not like this, I don't recall posts like this...the whole posting 2 posts and then asking us to disregard, that you didn't fully catch up. Scum busywork maybe?
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Alright. I got back in from work a lot later than I had hoped, and I had to take work home with me that needed to be completed by the morning. Rogers. You're here. I haven't caught up since I've left. Can you give me a quick summary since the day is almost over. Also I see a wagon going on the Doctor claim. Do I hammer it or not?

Lynching the town Doc is scummy as all heck. There is nothing about his claim that should lead anyone to doubt it -- THERE IS NO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE TO DO SO.

I personally cannot fully trust Almost, I think its too soon. He is just a clear town-leaning slot. His vote on the Doc shows either incredible mental weakness (WIFOM claim speculation) or scum motivation, IMO.

Somebody prove to me how working with unconfirmed claims that could be made BY SCUM should be used in town analysis of slots. This is just like FAIL. Seriously.

I can't see a town a50 voting claimed doc on d1 in this manner, either. Hm.....

[Mister Rogers]

Y a I don't like how he shows up on the TAIL end of that wagon. :shrug:

[Performer]

Before I make this post, something interesting I noticed here is that even though Performer substituted in for Saudade, he’s reading the game completely differently than the way Saudade did. Saudade was adamant that the worst and Sashaddin were scum together. He did not buy the worst’s claim, and he did not buy Sashaddin’s Newbie excuse. Performer has become somewhat of a carbon copy of Flavor Leaf with respect to Saudade. He buys green!Sashaddin, and he buys green!theworst. Completely different players in the same slot. I haven’t seen that happen in replaces before, but I’m sure it does happen.

Ok I just finished looking over your wall post, that's understandable. I do like that you're developing your play, I had to do a lot of that in earlier games and still do in current day. Regarding me and ex-slots playing differently, that's to be given for any replacement. I absolutely don't buy green tw or green creat based on play alone.

How have you not seen different play in replaces before?? How can you say this, light?
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This is my green list :Naomi, FL, Performer. I'd be hesitant to lynch Crimson, having found nothing of interest in his ISO a couple of times. The others have claimed so they're untouchable it seems. Although I don't really believe The Worst's claim at all. I think he did a solid mistake and that he just abandoned after that.

But why are you townreading me ?
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@everyone can someone find somebody to come into tw slot? I asked someone already but no reply.
If he really is a gunsmith, we risk a modkilled pr.

[profii]

as for all these claims on d1
absolutely there is someone L Y I N G. ABSOLUTELY.
this G A I M is messsed U P

I agree but I just don't know where to go:

Creature and FL - it's a ballsy scum play but I can see the motivation = FL was going to be shot by Krazy (allegedly) so he may know that is bad news for scum. A mason claim might see him through the night given the doc may protect.
On the flip side of that:
FL hard defended Manatee.
FL has given us 2 scum if he gets caught
Why give that up on day 1 for the sake of 1 night, when if Krazy shoots Creature anyway, we are speed lynching FL. It's a huge risk.
On the flip side of that:
See FL's signature haha.


Krazy - Neighbour Vig, someone pointed out there is no multiball in 13p new normal rules, so I guess he isn't going to turn out to be a serial killer. So if he is a legit vig, his survival depends on scums assessment of how likely he is to shoot a towny and help them - he may not die tonight, despite having the ability to shoot scum, as he is interesting in me somewhat :p IDK how likely Krazy is going to flake claim ala FL.


Rogers - neighbour - no mechanical reason for this to be lock town, but his play seems ok ish. I don't recall seeing that level of effort/frustration from scum any time recently.


Crimson - I did not like the claim, it scared people off the wagon and is hard to prove currently.

TW - Gun smith, seems logical given at least 2 shooters

The question on my mind is would it be normal/balanced enough to have a way of detecting shooters and stopping shooters? (Crim and TW)
Also -the point of 1 of these roles can be scum PRs would also make sense - we have a lot of power so far and I don't think this is role madness.


I feel like the "safe" bet is TW - I know this is a pre-designed setup and I don't know who made it, so do we think that game designers are mean enough to lead us to this way of betting TW might be scum - I mean I don't think so because they don't know who is going to claim when but it's a dangerous path to go down because if we start lynching PRs because one is surely lying and we are wrong, when do we stop?

I really don't know what to do.

[Performer]

@prof I concur with the logic. I want to add that I won't put it past a50, fl, and krazy to not fake claim whether scum or town. In fact if they're all scum, I'm sorry to say but this game is over lol.
I want to see crim's wagon defense. I don't see it as a town move for him to not be around near deadline.

I can't believe I'm offering this idea but what if we no lynch? With so many claims going into d2, if scum all fake claimed, it's next to suicidal. And with out playerlist, I'm thinking we're ready to weed out the lies regardless of a lynch. I'm very much for a lynch in a general game but this what's happened in this one has obviously made it an atypical game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lol, if Almost, Krazy, and Myself were the scum team here, but not Creature.

Also, @profii bringing up my sig.

On my Boonskiies account, I say the exact same thing, except the flip of it. I WOULD do that as town!

[Flavor Leaf]

Crimson being alive later as scum gives them a potential no kill gambit as well

[Krazy]

Fl -- look at 2023 setup. Doc, roleblocker, gunsmith, mason-like lotal neighborizer vs all goons

Balance has not been good in ny lately and this setup was probably approved before people started complaining

Not saying I believe every claim but if there are unstated limitations it is not impossible every claim is real

Just because it does not look balanced does not mean it could not get passed by nrg

[Flavor Leaf]

Fair. Towns haven’t been too strong lately, and I think they’re compensating.

However, a lot of games PR’s don’t even matter or change the game too much unless a lot of confirmed players can get in the game.

When i mod games, I always have to give town more power to get it passed, so i have to throw in like “Tracker” which does little in upping actual power. It just adds something else to the game.

I’m willing to go Rogers instead of Crimson.

[Performer]

you guys need to wagon and lynch scum d1.
you need to get off me asap because this is a bad lynch.

I'm not being lynched today, absolute end of discussion.

this wasn't how he played when I was scum v him town, in the mini normal hosted by schad. way too defensive so unlike his town self

yeah TW, Krazy, Sasha can be scum.
I think Voyagers slot is a crucial key to solving this puzzle

*sigh*

hmm looking back at my slot's ISO....hm. tw, krazy, sash as scum. That actually may not be farfetched.
2 masons, 2 neighbors (krazy as vig too), doc, gunsmith.
I actually want crim to be on FL instead of anyone else. If krazy really is scum, makes sense he'd push for prof & his neighbor roger to die. Vig neighbor & gunsmith are easy to fake claim. Hm...........

anwyas

VOTE: Naomi
I feel bad for townreading the effort originally.

His push for naomi & manatee/dough/a50's deaths - if tw is scum - then these 2 are likely town.

[Performer]

pedit: too many replacements - his push for naomi & manatee/creat's deaths - if tw is scum - then those 2 are likely town

[Performer]

Spoiler: long post about krazy

So you're an alt right? Is this a meme account or a real account?

Pedit: @dough

No I’m not an alt.

Neighborhoods always have scum and the worst always fakeclaims pr... these are things you say with one game from newbie queue? Are you doing hard meta on the duck or wtf is with your posts? These are not things a new player says.

I almost did but then I remembered you're the worst

Btw the duck is town so y'all can back off a touch. Scum duck does not get this tilted. He loves fakeclaims and wouldn't seem angry giving one.

Duck you have permission to lynch the manatee or frank, light is off the table

aka Creature & a50

Dewd I dont see how all you guys can make all this speculation based on unconfirmed claims. Its super dangerous, we need to sort this out tomorrow and then start doing setup spec. The only exception is if we have an obvious fakeclaim like we do with Worst.

fine with lynching this

anyway here's a crimson TPR game -- viewtopic.php?t=76171&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

one thing I notice here is that he has a reads list by 297 -- viewtopic.php?p=10183925#p10183925

which was on d1

so Crimson was super disengaged this game when usually he is actually a bit more engaged as tpr than he is as VT

but this game has also been a clusterfuck so idk for sure, but there is a case to be made for crimson scum

you know what, fuck it, let's make it a thing

Vote Profii

So, krazy wanted prof/rogers/a50/creat dead.
a50 townreads creat & rogers, has sr on crim.
I might be going crazy here but his interactions with worst are so incredibly weird. Also, tw as town didn't fake claim when I played with him before - so krazy's point about that, is odd at the least.
prof stated he could go for tw, krazy, crimson.

VOTE: the worst

[Almost50]

The mod had just announced that Crimson was planning to replace out. Only then, did Krazy ask for the hard claim. I took offense to Krazy not leaving it to the person who would replace in to claim.

I had to go back to verify my memory wasn't playing a trick on me:

Mod Notes

Crimson97 has requested replacement. Now seeking.

Mod Notes

Crimson97 has requested to not be replaced and may now resume posting.

Crimson hardclaim now

There are no edit remarks at the bottom of 2111, meaning it was edited before 2112 was posted, and thus 2113 by Krazy was made in response to Crimson pulling back his replace out request.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Mister Rogers

Let’s keep all the PR’s alive for now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not counting Neighbor there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, you think Crimson thought scumhim was done for the realized he had a chance?

[Mister Rogers]

VOTE: Mister Rogers

Let’s keep all the PR’s alive for now.

I agree and am willing to go to accomplish this because as Krazy says, we are more than likely to have caught scum in the claims.

@Profii: The moptivation for scum FL/Creature was that Creature was the OBV lynch for D1 and the Mason claim was the only way to derail that. Obviously I do not hold Creature as scum but if they are scum together, that was the reason. If Creature holds a particulasrly powerful scum role, a gambit like this could be seen as warranted.

Obviously however I am the wrong choice for the day not only because I am town but because we have genuinely scummy players that should be voted.

[Almost50]

@Rogers: Let me put it this way.. I do not mind lynching the (town) doctor on D1. Why? Because the doctor is much more valuable towards the end of the game (and Crimson won't be living that long if he is town), and because they don't function well at the early stages (chances are dim for him to actually protect the person the Mafia are shooting). In short, assuming he is indeed a Town Doctor he is now effectively a VT, and shall still be for the next 2 game days.

That said, I am very skeptical of the claim itself in light of the setup spec FL provided, so that adds to my "not minding" lynching Crimson.

Finally, it's such an informative lynch. It has become an info-rich one because of this very debate we are all having. I mean, if he does flip red everyone who pushed for his lynch is virtually confirmed a townie because there is absolutely no reason for scum to hard bus Crimson with this game status. If he flips green, those who drove the lynch + the other claims become suspicious, and if all were true then we should expect a very strong Mafia team.

Now let's assume we lynch TW, What info do we get from him flipping red/green? Let's assume we lynch from the pool outside the claims. What info do we get from any of them flipping either way? I want as much information as possible from today's lynch to be able to read the interactions, and so do all active PRs to decide their target(s).

The only point against that Crimson lynch was the TW/Krazy survival, but now we also have 2 Masons, so even assuming we leave Crimson alive there's only a 25% of him protecting the right NK if he is town (33% assuming TW is fake claiming) and scum!Crimson can very well get away with that anyway, so keeping him alive only keeps us guessing.

[profii]

VOTE: Mister Rogers

Let’s keep all the PR’s alive for now.

I agree and am willing to go to accomplish this because as Krazy says, we are more than likely to have caught scum in the claims.

@Profii: The moptivation for scum FL/Creature was that Creature was the OBV lynch for D1 and the Mason claim was the only way to derail that. Obviously I do not hold Creature as scum but if they are scum together, that was the reason. If Creature holds a particulasrly powerful scum role, a gambit like this could be seen as warranted.

Obviously however I am the wrong choice for the day not only because I am town but because we have genuinely scummy players that should be voted.

i know what the scum motivation could have been - I don’t think Creature was going to get lynched though


Do you think that was the scum claim then?

[Almost50]

creat later claimed mason unprovoked on d1

Creature didn't claim. FL claimed when I voted Creature. I also don't recall saying he plays anything before FL explicitly outed they're masons.

[Almost50]

@FL:

Explain Crimson's approach to Manatee at the start of the game. Could it be that Manatee knows Crimson's play well enough that Crimson wanted to take the initiative to make it look like OMGUS when Manatee calls him out??
Also why is Crimson defending Horror against Saudade?
I'll admit 346 coming at the back of [post]345[/pos] doesn't bode well with me, so if Crimson is scum Saudade is likely his p (which in today's terms translates as Crimson+Performer, btw).

[Almost50]

Are you town this game?

I am town and I suspect you're not. I now want Crimson lynched more because I think you are his p.