In post 91, Thor665 wrote: In post 84, Lady Angel wrote:That being said, the possibility of lynching a mime actually makes me kind of scared to lynch. How viable would no lynch be as an option?
The fear of lynching a Mime Day 1 is so tiny it should barely be considered - the only danger comes on a day *after* we lynch a Mime and no Mimes are nightkilled.
Since we're not in that situation I fail to see the issue - can you describe why no lynching is beneficial in catching the Mimes and Mafia? If not - that sort of answers your question for you, yeah?
In post 87, FA_Q2 wrote:If you think the case is meh then do you think it is a better or worse case than 'did not create a wagon with first post?'
I would consider it roughly equivalent.
I feel this is NAI to Aristophanes
hmmm...
questioning a single read on this, especially when It flips mime, seems like it
could
be distancing, but I feel its more likely to not have Mafia!GL
-1 scum equity
In post 130, Thor665 wrote:
I'm not sure if he is - but thus far the extent of his efforts have been a very aggressively pedantic and misrepresentative series of questions/attacks on me and then kind of awkwardly stepping back on it when called on the issue.
I would think, at the very least, the question of whether it was an intentional misrep would keep him in the null category and am at a loss as to why you have him in a town lean category.
Clarify?
ye, this doesn't really feel like SvS
-2 more scum equity for GL
could be SvS
+1
In post 173, Thor665 wrote:
Sure, but you know I've seen you go into a hard tunnel based on standards before - it doesn't always end well.
You have straws - the straws might mean something, sure, but you're extroverting their meaning at a level way beyond what they deserve.
In post 162, Almost50 wrote:This is more or less where I am eight now, so make a case on someone I'm not Mime reading and I'll follow.
What's your take on my Lane case?
In post 163, innocentvillager wrote:since for some reason Almost doesn't want to push my wagon despite me being his most confident scumread, can you explain his argument to me? It seems like you kind of understand where he's coming from but I don't
Where do you get that he's not pushing it? He is absolutely pushing it - maybe not in the most efficient way humanely possible, but he's pushing it as much or more than basically anyone else is pushing their cases at the moment. This feels like an empty attack, yeah?
I would say the quickest way to explain it is to say "go do a search for games where Almost is town, and just read how he plays" Yes, he does the same as scum, but that's beside the point. The core revelation is that he tends to (much like myself, which is why I'm sympathetic to his position) get a burr up his backside when people "are not playing right".
You did something he considers inherently poor play, so the working theory from that is you're scum.
It seems like a fairly clear case even if you don't agree to it - why is his stance coming across as confusing and not being pushed to you?
In post 163, innocentvillager wrote:also your post gives me the shudders but people are townreading you for some reason I'm probably just not seeing so i'll let that go
If my case gives you shudders then address me about the shudders - otherwise you're not scumhunting and certainly avoiding trying to sort me.
I'm pretty sure people are towning me for a mix of activity and me being willing to state some opinions clearly.
Sesq seems like an easy lynch.
I'm personally more down for DT or Lane at this stage, but I'll admit to not hating the Sesq lynch because...hey, it's an easy lynch for a reason.
Most of the deadness is lack of activity and people not really planting on cases. I support you helping to combat that.
hmmm I dont know here.
this could be good SvS interaction but its also kinda pushy, but from what I've heard that doesn't mean much
0 +/-
In post 204, Thor665 wrote:
Can't really clarify unless you hone in on where I'm losing you.
Okay, let's babystep it (because my answer is 'yes, it is fairly clear')
Where is his vote on you being lost exactly? Are you claiming you have no idea at all what his issue is?
In post 182, innocentvillager wrote:what I mean by not pushing is basically just empty voting and proclaiming im scum but (1) not caring about other people voting/not voting me and (2) not explaining/refusing to explain to others why I'm scum. If he does either one of those I'd call it a push but if he's doing neither then imo it updates negatively for him
I'll agree he's doing 1.
He's not doing 2 unless I've missed something - I'll note that I just got dinged by Rocky for not describing a case when literally no one had asked me to yet, and might suggest that there is a noted lack of interest in people this game to ask questions prior to hurling suspicion, yeah?
In post 183, RockyHorror wrote:I don't know where you're getting that from. I specifically said that I was okay with a lane vote because of his lack of activity, and even mentioned that I saw him potentially buddying me with his sesq vote. I just think my vote is better positioned as is at the moment.
I was being fairly clear I thought - I quoted you describing your primary Sesq suspicion and made a direct compare/contrast of it to Lane's play and asked why one was a primary suspect and the other was kind of a "meh" read by your own words.
It's great that you suspect him, I think you *should* suspect him. What I want to know is why I can't get your vote on him when the case is basically identical to your other case - and the extent of your answer is "my current vote is better positioned" which is nonsense because the best you've argued for that is "pressure to get content" and, frankly, Lane could do with that just as much as Sesq could, so again - what's the point in not moving if asked?
Clearly I do, I've expressed a case on Lane, have called Lane one of my prime scumreads, and have suggested that the case on Sesq could be applied to Lane (or DT) whole hog.
Do you have an issue that locks you to Sesq so hard that can actually be described?
In post 187, innocentvillager wrote:you have a good reputation for scum which obviously makes me slightly more skeptical when everyone townreads you. but everyone else also knows that, but they're still townreading you anyway, and I assume they know your meta better
I've actually not played with a fair chunk of this player base.
I would like to think I also have a rep as decent town, no?
In post 187, innocentvillager wrote:that one post you wrote that I felt weird about felt oddly manipulative but im not sure i have more than that gutshot. Maybe you're coaching Almost or something although i hate positing these low probability scenarios.
What did I try to coach Almost on outside of advising him not to rage tunnel you?
And wouldn't that suggest I'm as much potentially your partner as I am his?
this is a lot of commenting about IV, which is interesting
but he also pushed a lot of town so ugh im not really sure here
I think this could be -1 scum equity tho
In post 209, Thor665 wrote:
Well, feel free to have my admission I did exactly that for your case needs.
In post 207, innocentvillager wrote:what i mean is im less inclined to TR you from everyone else TRing you, like you're pretty null for me rn ill keep you around for now
Very hipster
Do you dislike the DT or Lane wagons particularly? Or do you like the Sesq one for some reason I'm missing?
still a lot of focus and questioning of IV
-1
In post 334, Thor665 wrote: In post 277, innocentvillager wrote:can you state your scumreads based on that reasoning? sounds like you're ruling out quite some teams with that
I don't rule out teams Day 1.
If I had scumreads I felt were remotely worth sharing I'd do so, I'm content with the three I've already offered. And considering I'm only offering two (and both of them pretty soft) town reads I really see little value in discussing who I'd be willing to lynch.
In post 278, innocentvillager wrote:okay he addressed this self-case thing I think but whats your read on sesq, given the bolded that you said?
Sesq is basically a scum read with a slight "hurm" based on him deciding to panic push GL.
Generally I'm thinking he's a Mime right now. It explains a lot.
In post 287, Almost50 wrote:The downside is if Mafia decide to hunt for TPRs instead, but that can be dealt with by assigning the kills, and if Mafia do not shoot the proposed target then I'd be alright siding by the Mimes over them (it's like "I came to you first and you refused to cooperate, so it was your choice").
I rarely support no lynches - but let's at least be honest with ourselves that this is a laughable threat to try to leash Mafia with.
If you're endorsing a no lynch you have to recognize Mafia are going to shoot for a PR just as likely as they are to shoot for a Mime because both matter to them roughly equally at this stage. You also assuredly don't have my support in the idea of game throwing for the Mimes if Mafia on Night 1 shoots somewhere random.
even more more talking w/ IV
this could be signaling, stuff like "im thinking sesq is probably mime"
to make it so that IV doesn't vote sesq
In post 276, Thor665 wrote: In post 267, Sesq wrote:id rather someone just Smurfing respond to my read on guiltylion. nobody has. not even him
Generally it helps when you ask some*one* to do something.
Group asking, or not asking and then being annoyed at lack of response to either situation is strangely common.
I stand by my previous commentary - I find him null. I don't see much meat in your case, and frankly considering how I could flip your name into his name and have the case make just as much sense I'm worried that you do find meat in it.
Even taking out the people who I think are lurking for legit reasons this game's pace is glacial.
There is a strategy at play here, and it's called lurk.
I am also of the opinion in two player scum teams generally there is a active/active enough teammate and one who opts to lurk. Expand that with two teams and you've got a solid explanation for why this game is extra slow soup.
The only bother is the number of town helping to occlude it.
In post 275, GuiltyLion wrote:can the three voters restate the case on him because I really don't think he's done anything scummy and I'd like a fresh take on why he's the best place for your vote
viewtopic.php?p=10406398#p10406398
this talk to IV makes it seem like not buddying, but also pushing
very verbose talking to IV, then all he has for GL is a single link...
interesting
In post 356, Thor665 wrote: In post 354, GuiltyLion wrote: In post 344, Thor665 wrote:Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here; how do Sesq's Mime status and FA_Q2's scum status connect in your mind?
They're both not showing me any evidence of being town
Sesq is aggressively playing scummy whereas FA_Q2 looks a lot more like he's trying to avoid the spotlight while sheeping onto the convenient wagon
It's not a connection between the two necessarily, it's just how I feel about assessing their slots and a possible explanation for the gamestate
What makes FA_Q2 stand out from the other lazy voters on the lazy wagon?
I mean, basically half the game is lazy votes, so why him over, say, Fink doubling down on an RVS position, or IV voting Sesq because Sesq gets reads when voted, or me sticking to cases I last described eight pages ago?
these could definitely be SvS distancing
In post 403, Thor665 wrote: In post 359, Nero Cain wrote:Is is strange that ppl want to lynch scum over Lane? Also, you seem content sitting on a not scum wagon so your whine that we aren't lynching Lane seems odd.
It is not strange that people want ot lynch scum over Lane and I never said anything of the sort - what I did say was that Lane perfectly matches a large number of cases people are pushing, yet I'm the only one looking at him and *that* is suspect (which it is). Want to debate my actual statements instead of a straw man?
You haven't done mch to convince me you're not a scum slot - your predecessor was scummy and this has been very lacksidasical Nero play thus far. Are you claiming I should have a town read on your slot for some reason? Why?
In post 389, Jingle wrote:Thor, my wagon has just as much steam as yours, a loud mouthed asshole who actually cares about pushing it through, and managed to destroy two vanity wagons. Can I interest you in the sweet smell of actually progressing the game?
I like the idea of progressing the game, but the A50 run is pretty weak.
Do you actually townread Nero and/or Lane right now? If so - why?
everyone I've seen him SR has either flipped town or mime...
this is weird
In post 451, Thor665 wrote: In post 409, lane0168 wrote: In post 408, Thor665 wrote: In post 406, lane0168 wrote:@thor, why is it suspect that either A) people disagree with you or B) people agree that the case is equally strong as several others and don't see the point in starting a new wagon that is equally likely to flip scum?
Who is doing B?
Couldn't tell you. Is there another possibility of why people aren't following you? If you think it's exclusively that people disagree with you, why is that suspect?
I think the possibility I'm currently seeing is you're arguing the point from emptiness just to try to beat it down. Bringing up counterpoints youc can't support is not an interesting or pro-town conversation.
In post 415, Jingle wrote:I do think Nero is likely town, although it's a weak read at best. 1st, his jump to A50 reads as a genuine scumread. 2nd, his reads progression about a50 matches up with mine fairly nicely. 3rd, the posts in which he does content (particularly 299) feel like they're actually going somewhere.
So basically the town read is mostly predicated on the value of your A50 read?
That's a silly stance.
In post 415, Jingle wrote: Regardless, I think that my A50 wagon is clearly superior to your Nero wagon.
It certainly is in size and support...for...some reason.
@Sesq
- hi, I think A50 is town and you're a Mime.
I'm stating Mjolnir intent on you.
Please claim.
I'm also willing to take non-presence as a scum claim, so keep that in mind.
I could see "a silly stance" as being distancing here, it could also discern why thor is being so free with being able to SR town, because a scumteam of thor and jingle never lose by dayplay
In post 473, Thor665 wrote:@Jingle - That tell is as valid as saying 'people that agree with me are town and people that disagree are scum'.
It's a stance, sure, but I don't think it's less silly than the above.
this could also be distancing
In post 593, Thor665 wrote: In post 583, Jingle wrote:We do still have to come to a consensus over the three possibilities Watcher wise.
Watcher outs if they have useful information.
Watcher hypoclaim.
Watcher holds cards close to chest regardless and we pray for mafia to miss.
I oppose option three, personally and endorse option 2, but it is theoretically a valid course of action. Very high risk, possibly very high reward. If we commit to one of the courses, everyone needs to agree to abide by it.
The theory benefit of choosing option 2 over option 1 is that, if Mafia kill the Watcher we still get info if they have useful info.
The reality negative of option 2 over option 1 is it increases the ability of the Mafia to locate the Watcher regardless of the Watcher having useful info.
Wouldn't that make #1 the better option hands down? The only benefit requires the info to be useful to begin with, yeah?
What am I missing.
I'd advocate doing a faux vote where we can at least provide info on who we would lynch today if we were to lynch.
I'd probably be looking to lynch FA_Q today - I think lynching on the wagon makes immense sense and think any Vig and Mafia shots targeted at the wagon would benefit town.
will have to look at the wagon, but again, looking to Lynch town
In post 612, Thor665 wrote: In post 604, Jingle wrote:In hindsight, yeah, a single result on A50 is probably just immediately out, because trading the watcher for one of the scum is great for us.
Unless the scum are daft they shot for Mime - what makes you think A50 is the Mafia shot as opposed to Sesq?
In post 608, Fink wrote:Aside from the thing from yesterday, the fact that he thinks he'd be an NK target seems like a standard assumption that's easy to have as mafia. I think if he were as good as people seem to imply and he'd been trying to solve the game, he'd be thinking about things like A50 potentially being Vig and Thor being a more likely Mime candidate.
I would be confused by anyone thinking A50 is the Vig at this stage.
this is daft distancing from thor, he tells jingle "why would A50 be the mafia kill"
like...
??
why would A50 be the fucking vigilante kill!
In post 659, Thor665 wrote: In post 643, Aristophanes wrote:I'm not really caught up, but Thor, do you think that case by Rocky makes him scummy or makes him just laughable?
I didn't really want to say till he had a chance to respond to me calling it laughable - that he doubled down on it reads as scummy to me.
Basically his case is 'Thor is scum more than other people voting Lane because Thor tried to get me onto Lane"
Which is all well and good as a theory case - except, as I pointed out in my defense, i also tried to get him onto DT.
He then counters it by quoting me doing *exactly what I said I did* but then handwaves it by pointing out that in debating him I used Lane as my example as opposed to DT as my example which...somehow means really I was clever Lane Mime partner, mwah-haha...?
It's really bad and shows blindness/not actually caring.
I think he's probably some value of scum for that play.
Do you read that interaction as town from him in any particular way? I'd have a hard time outside of arguing he's really blind and tunneled town for no reason, yeah?
In post 644, Fink wrote:So does anyone have any thoughts at all on what I'm saying about GL?
I would tend to pack it in very similar to my personal response towards IV and Eragorn for their non-responses as justified from who died.
I didn't like any of it, but I'm not sure it's a clear indication of scum mentality over the already apparent lazy mentality of this game state.
hmm actually kinda defends GL here
In post 696, Thor665 wrote: In post 693, Fink wrote:Why is this Rocky laziness scummier than GL laziness? I think you're saying that it's manipulative and so more of a scum mindset, right? But why is GL not pinging you as manipulative?
I would counter that question with one of my own - describe the GL goal if his current manipulations.
Therein lies my answer, I don't see a goal beyond being lazy, which makes the best case on him one I can apply to a lot of the game. Is there meat to it? Maybe, sure. Is it unique enough to stand out to me - not so much.
Also, Rocky is intentionally twisting actual provable facts - which always feels more like scum to me than someone just apparently signing up for a game they don't care about.
How is Rocky not pinging you?
In post 693, Fink wrote:Like you put GL on the level of IV and Eragon and I don't get it.
I at least think IV is town.
Eragon is assuredly being as lazy and useless as GL - he couldn't even handle a 'describe your top scumspects' question.
But then there's also posts like this;
In post 694, Jingle wrote:
That can't be it, I owned up to it with a one liner.
This has been Jingle, reading along and seeing nothing worth calling out.
Hey, look, you and Jingle just discovered that the DL/Nero (I'm combining them so Rocky might notice) isn't doing gak and is being scummy.
Wow.
Shock.
I wish I was a Dayvig with five shots right now - we might not win the game, but at least we could trim down to the people playing it.
then comes back and calls GL lazy
In post 699, Thor665 wrote: In post 697, Jingle wrote:I also wish we could somehow trim the playerlist by putting bullets into players who aren't obviously town. If only there was some way of doing that...
It's almost like my point was I wanted to do it faster than the slow grind we are getting to look forward to.
In post 697, Jingle wrote:And I agree that Nero isn't really doing anything. I disagree that that is inherently scummy. Hell, in this particular set of circumstances, it might not even be antitown.
If he didn't waste time by attacking Fink over it I could see your point.
But since he did...what are you smoking?
In post 698, Nero Cain wrote:I'm not sure why me missing/not understanding part of the game is causing such a big upset.
Yeah, you'd think they would have listened to me yesterday and saved time.
Maybe Rocky is right - I must have only had those thoughts in my head and am hallucinating them when I look at my posts
again, this feels like distancing to me
In post 706, Thor665 wrote: In post 703, Aristophanes wrote:Why are we no lynching wgen it is likely we can avoid a mime hit? We only increase the chances of it each day.
VOTE: Rocky
We're no lynching because a Mime lynch equates to a loss for Town and Mafia - and we can flip basically two people each night until we kill the last scum at which point we can start lynching again.
I dont think Aristophanes would do this as a mafia buddy?
In post 707, Thor665 wrote: In post 701, Jingle wrote:It's almost like my point is that the way to make flips happen faster is to no lynch and look at the thread again after flips.
It's almost like that wouldn't be an issue if people were playing the game.
this is kinda like scum theatre
In post 734, Thor665 wrote:Why join in on this game if you believe that though? It's a pretty heavy night play game to begin with, compounded sharply if a Mime is lynched.
I dont think this comes from SvS
In post 745, Thor665 wrote: In post 743, Aristophanes wrote:Sure there is! If we scumhunt wothout lynching we either let scum guide the Vig or show our hands and get NK'd.
How are scum guiding the vig? The vig is guiding the vig.
If you're fine with the idea of lynching, I fail to see why you're scared to 'show your hand' without a lynch. Express scumreads if you want them to be considered, or stay quiet - but don't act like only a lynch would allow you to express reads.
the irony
but I also think this isnt SvS too
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)- JingleAri has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking