Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Gameover]

[ofrhz]

I think you need to reread end of day 2. Enigma was definitely a viable lynch

In fact chickadee wasn’t the obvious lynch; if NSG hasn’t been replaced and her replacement decided to vote chick, then chick wouldn’t have been lynched at all????

And I voted chick over prof Fridays which I think is a good enough towncase for myself given the flips

Or better yet, tell me what feysal has done that’s hard to fake?

[ofrhz]

Why? He hasn't lynched scum.

So what? Neither has GuiltyLion, and he is not scum either. It would be much easier to lynch scum if you knew who they were.

This is an extremely simplistic reason to suspect someone, especially in endgame. I would expect better from town. That guess about something supposedly making me scum was also horrendously vague. And what was that about Kokichi

probably

being the last scum if you're wrong? You of all people should know that with absolute certainty.

You know, my conclusions from interactions with flipped scum are what they are, but that does not mean I should ignore the players themselves. From my point of view, the situation is extremely simple. One of Ofrhz, Kokichi and myself has to be the last scum, so from my point of view it has to be Ofrhz or Kokichi. More importantly, whoever the last scum is, he needs two mislynches to win.

I don't scumread Feysal either. So I'm fine with lynching me and then Ofrhz.

This is

not

scum trying to get two mislynches in order to win. I don't believe scum would have excluded me from the lynch pool like this. Ofrhz however reversed his read on me the instant the fortunates had claimed. Obvious scum motive right there.

As things are, if I'm going to be voted out, I'd prefer it to be today. At least, in light of recent posts, I don't want Kokichi to be lynched.

To Koki, Feysal, Ofrhz, can you all give a bit about why you should be townread?

I'm trying.

It is that simple. I have always been more motivated by town than scum games. I have put more work into this game than I would have as scum, including meta research and analysis. I could possibly fake some of that, but if I were scum I would probably not bother.

Yeah, I like this and I doubt scum makes a post/point like this.

Wtf why

What the fuck is the scum motivation in reversing my read after the flips? And how is this different from other people reconsidering their reads (like Kokichi who is doing the same thing? We can’t both be scum mate)? All I see is bad omgus

He doesn’t even have recent town meta that you can verify

[Kokichi Oma]

There's an argument for Koki!Scum purposely not doing anything yesterday so there'd be no new fortunate, and both Feysal and Ofrhz contributed...

It seemed like everyone knew what they were doing and I didn't wanna mess it up. Besides odds were that even if a fortunate was made as scum I'd be in this position which isnt that bad. Could have also killed fortunate as well

This post is kinda weird because it's like it's a plan that already happened? If you were scum and you're in a position that "Isn't that bad" then......

Exactly why it can't be my plan. Because I would try to help town win if I was scum to be in this spot with more towncred than not

[Myloninja13]

Hiyo, I'm backo!

[Myloninja13]

Let me tell you a funny story that happened to me today. I took my rabbit, Max, to the vet and said, "My rabbit is cross-eyed... is there anything you can do for her?"
"Well," says the vte, "let's have a look at her." So, he picked Max up and examined her eyes, then took her temperature.
Eventually, he said: "I'm going to have to put her down."
Naturally, I was horrified. "You're going to put her down just because she's cross-eyed?"
"No, because she's really heavy."

Here's the enigma solved @Mutant

[Myloninja13]

We have 5 hours left so we may as well end day lol

[Myloninja13]

Let me tell you a funny story that happened to me today. I took my rabbit, Max, to the vet and said, "My rabbit is cross-eyed... is there anything you can do for her?"
"Well," says the vet, "let's have a look at her." So, he picked Max up and examined her eyes, then took her temperature.
Eventually, he said: "I'm going to have to put her down."
Naturally, I was horrified. "You're going to put her down just because she's cross-eyed?"
"No, because she's really heavy."

Just in case the 'vte' was wrong.

[Feysal]

What the fuck is the scum motivation in reversing my read after the flips?

I already explained this. It was embedded in the very post you quoted even. Scum needs two mislynches in order to win, and you downgraded me from town to scum immediately after you found out I was not fortunate.

And how is this different from other people reconsidering their reads (like Kokichi who is doing the same thing)?

Kokichi was

not

doing the same thing, not even close. If he were scum he would need two mislynches too, yet he was fine with the lynch pool consisting of you and himself, ruling me out. Since then you appear to have talked him against me, but his change of opinion was at least in response to points made against me, as bad as they were. You however reversed your read instantly, because you

guessed something

.

Speaking of reconsidering your reads, what exactly have you done? You said I had not lynched scum, and the fact that this also applies to confirmed town GuiltyLion should tell you something about how credible this is. You said everything I had done could be faked, but provided no examples or scum motivation behind any of it. You said Prof Friday flipped town, and conveniently forgot he was your suspect to begin with. You even accused me of bad omgus, while ignoring the scum motivation for your actions I had already explained. You have not done your due diligence. I see no sign of you reconsidering your reads, you are just grasping at straws trying to make me look bad.

The funny thing is, before today I was leaning toward Kokichi being the last scum. I was still thinking that way after looking at interactions with flipped scum. And then Ofrhz opened his big mouth and talked himself into my prime suspect. Nicely done.

If I get lynched today, I expect Ofrhz will do everything he can to evade responsibility. Don't give him the time of day. Just impale him on a stake, pour gasoline over him and light him on fire.

Just in case the solution needs to be in lowercase and without spaces, here it is.

letmetellyouafunnystorythathappenedtometoday.itookmyrabbit,max,tothevetandsaid,"myrabbitiscross-eyed...isthereanythingyoucandoforher?"
"well,"saysthevte,"let'shavealookather."so,hepickedmaxupandexaminedhereyes,thentookhertemperature.
eventually,hesaid:"i'mgoingtohavetoputherdown."
naturally,iwashorrified."you'regoingtoputherdownjustbecauseshe'scross-eyed?"
"no,becauseshe'sreallyheavy."

[mutantdevle]

letmetellyouafunnystorythathappenedtometoday.itookmyrabbit,max,tothevetandsaid,"myrabbitiscross-eyed...isthereanythingyoucandoforher?"
"well,"saysthevte,"let'shavealookather."so,hepickedmaxupandexaminedhereyes,thentookhertemperature.
eventually,hesaid:"i'mgoingtohavetoputherdown."
naturally,iwashorrified."you'regoingtoputherdownjustbecauseshe'scross-eyed?"
"no,becauseshe'sreallyheavy."

"Unfortunates!"

"You have passed."

"Ooo they think they're so clever, don't they!"

"You have passed, therefore one of you will become a fortunate.

But before I award the lucky unfortunate, who do you think the saboteur was?"

[mutantdevle]

The voting phase has begun. You have (expired on 2018-10-06 17:00:00) to answer both of the following questions:

You must now vote for who you think is a saboteur and why?

How would you feel about being trapped?

[mutantdevle]

I'd like to apologise for all these delays and I've decided to abandon flavour in favour of actually getting things out:

Myloninja13:

I vote for

Ofrhz.

AHHHHHH this was so tough. Like, I crossed out the name LITERALLY 7 times and replaced it because there was just so much to consider! Ultimately I went for Ofhrz because I was overall more suspicious of them but there was so many things I was considering. If this is wrong, please please forgive me Ofrhz!

Kokichi Oma:

I'm voting for

Feysal

. I think Ohfiz might be town especially with the chick vote. Coupled with the fact that Feysal voted town each day.

Ofrhz:

I'm voting for

Kokichi Oma,

though I expect to get lynched today so this is mostly a thought exercise I suppose. I'm like 60% Kokichi, 40% Feysal.

I've gone through some of Kokichi's scumgames (not hard to find - he rolls scum like 80% of the time and that may or may not be my primary reason for voting him). I believe some of the earlier stated reasons for townreading kokichi were too easily given out. For example, post Subject: Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Floor 5]

202

Guilty why do you townread me? Unbiased I've been null so far considering I've messed up and I haven't been active because I've been busy. It's a bit of a weird read.

is well within Kokichi's scumrange.

I also think there needs to be further discussion on why he thinks his interactions with Pine were never SvS, because I did find an example where Kokichi did try to distance himself from his partners here: viewtopic.php?t=77105&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

However, while I would say that distancing is a thing he does, I didn't find a case where Kokichi tried to bus one his own partners

this

hard on day 1 out of the ~6 scumgames I skimmed. And that's predominantly why I am uncertain of my scumread on Kokichi. Also because Kokichi tends to be more active and have more game presence as scum, whereas he was, comparatively speaking, less active here.

I also think this was interesting: Subject: Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Floor 5]

For the record I'm back at pine scum after the chick flip

He had Pine as scum partly conditional on a townread of chickadee (I believe the logic was that Pine had an unusual TR of Chickadee which read like scum spewing TMI). So it's interesting that a chickadee red flip would be more indicative of a Pine red flip more than anything else.

I think there's something to be said for him screwing up the post counts on Day 1. This was stated last dayphase as a reason to townread him. However, it's very probable that that may have been a scum strat where there's strength in screwing up in numbers, something to the effect of "if we all make a concerted effort to screw up, then they'll let all of us slide when we screw up."

Lastly, when I was rereading this game, this stood out to me as possibly SvS:
Subject: Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Floor 5]

Fuck it. Rolled a d3 on my dice app. It’s random luck and I don’t trust anyone as much as I trust myself.

Choose: 3

Subject: Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Floor 5]

VOTE: Pine

Subject: Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Floor 5]

VOTE: Pine

Shocker.

Feysal's associations with flipped scum are not great, but he could have just been misguided town the entire game. The only point in his favor are the metareads that he has done, which I do think he would probably not do as scum. Even then, he didn't rely on his metareads very much, so it's hard to quantify for sure how much outside work he has spent on this game.
Subject: Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Floor 5]

I thought some more about Chickadee, and it occurred to me that scum could be concerned about pretending to post their last will, since pretending to break a rule is as bad as actually doing it. I'm still leaning town, though the read is not strong.

He throws out a weak reason for townreading chickadee, later qualifies it by admitting its weak, but maintains the townread anyway despite having her as null near EOD1 and chick's D2 early play wasn't really townread-worthy.

Subject: Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Floor 5]

Wow. I did not read anything yesterday, and suddenly this happens. I've read up on new posts, but I only have time for some quick replies tonight.

Pine has been playing clueless town most of the game... was this meant to get us to re-think Pine's alignment when he makes this mistake?

No. It was my reason for why we should not have picked numbers yet. Pine took a huge risk doing that, and it could have backfired badly.

Like if Irrelephant didn't know whether the day would end or not, he's town. If he's scum then he knew the day

wouldn't

end. So arguing that he's more suspicious because he knew the day

would

end just doesn't make any sense and I'm having a hard time seeing how town-Chickadee would genuinely think that way. Help me out here.

She said that the second number being correct was revealed while she was catching up. I can imagine her noticing that post and finding it suspicious, writing a post about it, seeing in the preview the number was in fact correct, but deciding to leave it in and editing her response.

What troubles me here is the lack of urgency. Irrelephant seems to have dumped everything that was on his mind into the thread, expecting the day to end at any moment. Chickadee shows no indication of having been similarly alarmed.

This is somewhat surface-level towny, but then he doesn't appear to consider chickadee in his lynchpool despite many people scumreading her.

So his associations with Chickadee are not great. On the other hand, his progression on Pine seems fine, albeit it's mostly going with the flow - his low activity makes it hard to say whether his going with the flow reads are because he's always catching up or if he's faking reads.

Subject: Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Floor 5]

246
Our pace has picked up quite a bit. I have no time to read everything now, even if most of it is likely to be just numbers.

I've been thinking more about what I said in my last post about the trick being to get away with interrupting the count, and I don't think it can be done. No matter what excuse you use, repeated interruptions would only get you lynched. It could only work if town was screwing up so much that they become lynchbait, and if the town keeps interrupting itself, there is little reason for scum to put themselves on the line.

I don't think this post aged well considering it was made around the time there were multiple screw ups by confirmed scum, but I also think it'd be suicidal to expend your own towncred in order to make excuses for your scumbuddies here, which makes this slightly more likely to be town.

From Mini 2020, this was one of Feysal's posts:

So, I was hammered. Just like that. No warning, no claim, nothing. Not that I'm surprised mind you, I could see this coming when Kuribo and DGB suddenly turned on me with their idiotic reasons. I wish I could call them the dumbest I was ever lynched for, but I have crossed paths with so many true morons they might not even make the top ten.

Suspected for reading the game after coming back from vacation? And Saturday is how many days after Thursday again? Oh, and I'm sure you've never been uncertain about a read on the first day of a game? I can forgive the other voters for joining the wagon so close to deadline, but those reasons were just

awful

.

At least that saves me from reading the twenty plus pages I missed while I was away. Even if I updated my reads now, you would probably forget them by tomorrow anyway.

Oh, and Staeg... I would not be so quick to defend Fate in this case. For what it is worth, I find Kokichi's claim believable. It would not be the strangest role in this game, not even close.

You have no idea.

This AtE from one of his recent scumgames makes Feysal a little more likely to be town than scum IMO. The AtE was rather unbelievable in his scum game, and I don't think he's done anything like that despite me casting suspicion on him yesterday. The only thing that came somewhat close was:
Subject: Mini Theme 2022: Trapped! [Floor 5]

The funny thing is, before today I was leaning toward Kokichi being the last scum. I was still thinking that way after looking at interactions with flipped scum.

And then Ofrhz opened his big mouth and talked himself into my prime suspect.

Nicely done.

If I get lynched today, I expect Ofrhz will do everything he can to evade responsibility. Don't give him the time of day. Just impale him on a stake, pour gasoline over him and light him on fire.

The bolded seems like a silly reason to scumread me considering if I were scum, I obviously would've just let Kokichi be mislynched like he said right here, but maybe I'm just a little bit salty.

tl;dr GTH I'm picking Kokichi, but I'm not very confident in that, and I certainly don't envy the remaining conf!town tomorrow.

GuiltyLion:

VOTE: ofrhz

Hi guys. Sorry again for dropping off. I really deprioritized this game as RL got busy and that hasn't been fair to the other townies, but I am hoping we pull this out regardless. Here's the thrust of my case on ofrhz, in case they aren't lynched tonight:

- Chickadee's unusually aggressive call out of ofrhz in 172 stands out compared to all the rest of her pushes this game. She swings at ofrhz in 174 as well. Given that the rest of her playstyle with other confirmed townies seemed to be to tread more carefully and hedge and not make too many waves, this particular back and forth looks like it is more likely distancing, since Chickadee knows ofrhz is scum she can be confident that ofrhz won't aggressively play anti-team-win-con by pushing her too hard as a result while still setting herself/ofrhz to look good if/when one of them flips. It's also noticeable that she backs down in 204 and then never really comments on ofrhz again, despite ofrhz becoming a more popular wagon at D2.
- ofrhz was - in my mind - the main reason neither Chickadee or Pine got lynched on D1. 844 was the first post to back up Irrelephant after he asked for NK15 votes. Prior to this post, ofrhz hadn't really been pushing nk15 and had been distancing with Chickadee instead. further, their suspicion on Chickadee didn't really manifest itself in a visible/apparent way throughout D2 - ofrhz pushed on Prof Fridays instead, but then voted Chickadee at the night phase. I think this was an insurance strategy for in case Chickadee got lynched.
- In general, there's not a lot of conversation between any of Pine/Chickadee/ofrhz. Some occasional questions, but no real battles or figuring eachother out. On the other hand, Kokichi directly pushes Pine throughout D1 and D2 and receives a lot of pushback from Pine as a result. I doubt that's scum-scum theater.

Feysal:

VOTE: Ofrhz

Never lynched scum, he said. Time to fix that.

[mutantdevle]

Vote count:

Ofrhz - Myloninja13, GuiltyLion, Feysal.
Feysal - Kokichi Oma.
Kokichi Oma - Ofrhz.

[mutantdevle]

Ofrhz is lynched and they are an unfortunate.

Their final words:

I think I've made it clear that I don't think there's really one person who is significantly more town than the other, so I would strongly advise against quickvoting in lylo or "going with your gut" or whatever.

[mutantdevle]

Night has started.

[mutantdevle]

Guilty Lion died during the night. They are a fortunate:

Spoiler: Fortunate

Fortunate

Congratulations Guily Lion, you have successfully completed a challenge and have become a fortunate.

You are now more trusted. If someone you're voting for has to draw short straws, they will be lynched automatically instead.

Alternatively, if you have the most votes that are tied with someone else, instead of drawing short straws, the other person will be lynched instead; assuming they are not another fortunate that is. This will happen even if you have another fortunate voting for you.

How do you feel about being trapped:

"shitty, because the game isn't over yet. I really don't know who would be scum between Koki and Feysal if it's not ofrhz. My best guess is Koki, he feels town by tone but nothing outside of fakeable range and aside from the Pine tunnel he hasn't done much to push scum. Neither has Feysal tbh, but Feysal feels a lot more overall engaged/genuine? Both of them feel fairly town though so if ofrhz hasn't died and I'm dead I'd bet the game on scum!ofrhz"

[mutantdevle]

The next challenge is: Random.org.

A random number between 1 and 10 is chosen.
The town then has 3 tries collectively to guess the number.
After each guess, I will comment whether the correct number is higher or lower than the number guessed.
Guess the random number within the number of tries and you win the round, if you run out of guesses then you lose the round.
Each round, the range of possible numbers will be multiplied by 10 and the number of tries you have will go up by 3.
Eg. On round 2 you would have to guess a number between 1 and 100 with 6 tries, On round 3 it will be between 1 and 1000 with 9 tries.
Guess a number by typing

!guess #

To pass, you must win the best of 3 rounds.

There is no deadline to this challenge.

If you have any questions then now is the time to ask.


Each time, the mafia are told what the number to guess is.

I'm really sorry about the delays in the game as I'm very ill at the moment. That said, I will still be checking this thread to answer guesses and advance the rounds.

[Myloninja13]

Hi guys!

Spoiler:

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Myloninja13]

Okay so I'm not even going to try with this tonight lol, but basically here's some questions for both of you to answer please

What makes yourself town this game?

What would you have been doing throughout this game if you were scum?

What's your biggest regret of this game so far?

Obviously feel free to start casing each other, but I'd like this questions in particular answered

[Myloninja13]

Ahh my grammar is being affected by my tiredness lol.

Five nights ago I was thinking of this game and was thinking that if Ofrhz didn't flip scum, where would I go? And the answer, after 30+ minutes of uninterrupted thoughts, was uncertainty.

WELP

[Myloninja13]

Ahhh like my gut screams one answer but my head screams the other and like I have no idea which one to pick

I'm going to sleep for now though, I'll be back in the morning!

[Kokichi Oma]

I'm town because if my interactions with Pine cant be scum vs scum. I pushed on him hard day 1 and my progression on him is genuine and was consistent throughout most of the game. Especially when he was lynched. I tried to fool scum into thinking you'd be a potential mislynch to see if they would vote you to save pine.

My if I was scum I'd be more helpful with the challenges, because at a certain point like I was saying yesterday. There is no downside to that, especially when it can boost your towncred late game. Looking back on yesterday how feysal answered the riddle code so fast was more suspicious than I thought considering i was working on it all night and feysal seemed to do it instantly. Scum likely has the answers given to them.

My biggest regret was not forcing people to vote pine day 1. Because he had lots of scum equity at that point but I was swayed by others to vote elsewhere. Also not looking into pine's weird read on chickadee and realise it was weird because they were partners.

[Feysal]

So, here we are. This is not the outcome I wanted, I hoped the game would either end, or I would be dead. But I suppose it is better that I'm left alive, if it had been Ofrhz he probably would have been next.

What makes yourself town this game?

I think I already answered this yesterday, at least in part. I've spent more effort in this game than I would as scum, particularly in meta research. If I were scum I would have no need to do it since I would already know who was town, and since I've never liked playing scum I would probably not have been motivated to go through the trouble just to pretend.

Another reason is Enigma. There is no way I would have targeted him. If you look back at the end of day four, I did not just explain my vote, but I gave all my reads. That challenge had taken very long and I needed to sort out my reads, and at the time I expected either GuiltyLion or myself to be targeted, so I shared them. Also, remember how I said GuiltyLion was above suspicion, while I expressed some doubts about Enigma, as did GuiltyLion. Fortunate or not, I could never have gotten GuiltyLion mislynched, so I absolutely would have targeted him, especially since it would implicate Enigma.

Now I have one more reason, and this might be controversial, but here goes. It involves you.

I started three mafia games this summer. One ended a month ago. Another ended last week, so now I can talk about it. It was Game Throwing UPick, as you should know, since you were also in it. And the fact that you were in it presented me with a problem. As you may remember, you were very lurky and inactive at the start of that game, and Nauci in particular was convinced you were scum for it. You may forgive me for saying so, but you were a mislynch waiting to happen, and I would not even have needed to get my hands dirty. But instead, I defended you based on meta. Did you ever wonder why I did it?

The answer is this game. Here you were cleared by Northsidegal, and I then looked at your meta myself trying to establish solid reads on you both. And having done that here, I could not stay silent in the UPick either. I had to defend you in both games. If I'd only done it here, the inconsistency could have gotten me lynched. That is why my hand was forced, and I had to defend you, even though we really wanted you to be mislynched. Of course, this problem only existed because I was scum in the UPick and I am town here. If I had been scum in both games, I could have just ignored the meta and let your mislynch happen.

What would you have been doing throughout this game if you were scum?

I would have tried to mimic my town play. It is pretty much the only way I know. I would have helped with the challenges too, especially the easy ones, which town was likely to succeed in anyway unless the scum went out of their way to sabotage them, exposing themselves in the process. Simply put I would have tried to survive, and killed whoever was the biggest threat at night.

What's your biggest regret of this game so far?

Listening to Ofrhz yesterday. It has been a week, but I was pretty frustrated at the time, especially after seeing his long analysis with his vote. If he had posted that during the day, I might not have voted him and the game could be over.

Also, I recognize I should have looked at Kokichi more closely. He was town in my other game this summer, and was lynched over me in a truly bizarre turn of events. That may have clouded my judgement.

In response to what Kokichi said, while I recognize that he pushed Pine hard, it is suspicious how Pine never reacted to it. Also, the challenge yesterday really was that easy, at least for me. Besides, the partial solution Ofrhz posted of the first line helped a lot.

[Myloninja13]

Thank you both for answering the questions

But now I have to find scum

[Myloninja13]

Placeholder question just in case I don't get to this today lol:

Why do you think the other person made the night kills?

[Myloninja13]

Placeholder question just in case I don't get to this today lol:

Why do you think the other person made the night kills?

As in, the specific people? Why would the other person have chosed those people to kill?