Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[the worst]

that much shld be obvious

[the worst]

if rel skitter and korina are all town I can probably solve this. I don't trust korina because I can't think the way he thinks which always leaves me like "this is a wolf right" and after noir I find it really hard to back down from this. so I'm trusting an holistic solve on this; if anyone else thinks they're being Bad and Wrong wrt reading Korina/Vex please lmk and we can resort him together because I can't be bothered solo.

skitter30 I actually think is town. she's exhibited some anti-scum!skitter tendencies which I'm gonna cling to for my own sanity. I'll reassess this later but deal w it

rel i could easily be wrong on so.... wiser heads appreciated. I'll try and sort his preds rather than sorting him for himself but in a vacuum I think he's Just Town

[the worst]

also town on Alonzo for fairly intangible reasons but I feel like I have a tendency to get lazy and start scumreading his posting style when I'm deflated as town

if those assumptions are right there's 2 wolves in {ruru, buj, enigma} which I don't

think

is right but all the same I'll go try and a solve in these curly brackets and see how the cards fall.

[ruru]

here's a fun self meta question by retaliation.

why does town you refuse to jam with me and blindly tunnel me for this long? I'm gonna be quite candid, I think there are transparent signs that you do not believe that I'm scum anymore literally in the thread. does this come from town you before scum you?

the reason I'm not telling you my read on irrel right now is that I think it could be a rolefishing question

my response to him scumreading you in response to your scummy soft claim is probably more dependent on whether I believe irrel is a pr than anything else

[the worst]

It's not a role fishing question. it's an alignment read.

[the worst]

Tbh I'm exhausted trying to soft TPR too hard and eat a nightkill so you lazy fuckers don't have to sort me so I'll go try and solve this the good old fashioned way :c

[the worst]

Early *serious* read alert: Vex is likely town. I did the exact same thing (speculating about what scum might have picked) when I played this setup for the first time. It's not a *strong* TR bc there is a scum motive to do it (and I'd really rather not speaking of that right now) but I'd like to think of him as a townie for a starting point.

yeah i agree overall

Even considering that he’s an alt?

just quickly

anyone who doesn't say enigma is the #1 wolf by end of page 2 is reading the wrong thread

[ruru]

Tbh I'm exhausted trying to soft TPR too hard and eat a nightkill so you lazy fuckers don't have to sort me so I'll go try and solve this the good old fashioned way :c

it occurred to me that you might be doing this but I'm not very receptive to a50 gambits in the current gamestate (where scum could very well just choose not to shoot a scummy pr read)

[the worst]

Answer the important questions ruru. stop fluffing.

[ruru]

?

[the worst]

you have no read on me. you're covering your ears and yelling that I'm a wolf. stop being ridiculous, seriously.

do you want to talk about why my 2412 never comes from scum me here or do you want to explain why it comes from scum me here. stop using blanket scumtells or like... tells that work on.... another player? merged with weasel words?

I am not used to seeing the quality of your posting and reads GO DOWN in later day phases. in my experience you've been like a beacon of lucidity; you're meant to make sense when other people don't. (yes, from both scumming against you and sky's jester game to an extent)

You've dropped back to tunnelling and shitposting. You can't keep a stable vote. When asked to explain your reads you squirm.

What's up with you here?

here's a fun self meta question by retaliation.

why does town you refuse to jam with me and blindly tunnel me for this long? I'm gonna be quite candid, I think there are transparent signs that you do not believe that I'm scum anymore literally in the thread. does this come from town you before scum you?

the reason I'm not telling you my read on irrel right now is that I think it could be a rolefishing question

my response to him scumreading you in response to your scummy soft claim is probably more dependent on whether I believe irrel is a pr than anything else

It's not a role fishing question. it's an alignment read.

any of this............?

[the worst]

like i'd like to sort you around you obnoxiously deathtunnelling me so helping w that would be wild
i'd like to sort Rel and your current read on him is very important so helping w that would be wild

[ruru]

Why are you so sure ruru's town?

believe me I haven't given the read out easily

I'm not arguing against the read I want to know your reasons if you please.

Because from my pov he's been given a case for you being scum but not really pushing it and like I expect you to be suspicious of him for that.

Why should I be suspicious of that?
also sorry to be evasive but ctrl+f of ruru in my iso will probably give a fair bit.

I thought you sorted me already

current scumread feels very agenda-y

[the worst]

i am very angery with myself for survivalistically hammering gamma right now
day two of this game was really fucking stupid. enigma is a wolf.

i'm sorry but opening the game with "intent to shitpost and grab pagetops" is not towny. it's not tonally towny, it's not laissez-faire, it's not carefree, it's an excuse to prodge. it is dead null at most.

first game related comment I can see (barring setup spec bc he said nothing noteworthy during it) is:

Hey guys I'm traitor no shoot pls

VOTE: Almost50

I would be so upset if later this we find out that you weren't joking with this lol

traitor fishing, shortly followed by

Suppose you're a scum at L1 and you have to decide what to claim, you have information that town will probably believe n+1 PRs existing, so you claim PR

a response to the player who he's traitor fishing, followed by

If scum really claimed pr every time then town could just confirm themselves by claiming vt

Hypothetically yes, but unfortunately town has a tendency to lynch VTs claims and let TPRs get off...
Another thing is that there is very little defence once a TPR is outed in this set up. No docs, watchers, JKs, etc. Bodyguard is less than ideal - i.e. very little to discourage scum NKing TPRs if they CC.

Why wouldn't scum just fake claim regardless of our discussion, claiming VT doesn't really help them out at L-1 anyways so at least could just take their chances with a CC bait or potentially get away with it?

a response to the player who he's traitor fishing, followed by

i like ruru's entrance

Explain?

also ....
pedit: sigh

asking someone to explain their read on the player who he's traitor fishing.
like this is literally either "shitposting w ruru bc ruru is funny" or it's a wolf who smells a traitor and is excited.

someone else please tell me if you feel another motivation to his game entrance here. i know it's page 4 but like game mindsets have a tendency to spew a lot about where a person's at entering the thread so if someone wants to work thru what's going on here without being like "but the woooorst it's only page foooour" i'd be super happy ♥♥

[the worst]

derped on quotes, still very very readable

sry fam

[the worst]

im assuming that creature just gets obvtowned early on?

If he steals ma page tops, ima lynch him

pretty funny my pred gets flak for this but Engima gets away with it
whatever i'm just being salty. other important part of his entrance is incoming:

Actually thanks vex that’s quite useful. I was too lazy to look myself, partly because of what you mentioned about mods not flipping on post 0.

What’s interesting is that it’s 15 games, so from glance of numbers the average no of mods per game is quite low.

thanks to vex during setup spec for providing hard figures; not a lot to read into but i'm tryna follow his mindset as below so worth throwing in

Early *serious* read alert: Vex is likely town. I did the exact same thing (speculating about what scum might have picked) when I played this setup for the first time. It's not a *strong* TR bc there is a scum motive to do it (and I'd really rather not speaking of that right now) but I'd like to think of him as a townie for a starting point.

yeah i agree overall

Even considering that he’s an alt?

there's...not really a reason to shade the fact Vex exists here fmpov?
like the fact he's an alt doesn't really inform my read of vex come p4. the only thing it does for me (knowing he's korina) is suggests i'm prolly gonna reach a net wolfread because i don't know how to get into his head.

the shade throw is wonky. but let's be positive and treat it as a #staywoke moment.

responses incoming

Spoiler:

i don't know who he's an alt of, but i think his mindset has been pro-town for this stage of the game

y would me being an alt change people tring me?

It’s likely that you might have experience with such setups. I’m pretty meh towards early reads anyways

also question
how would my experience (or lack there of) change anything about tring me?

Anyways I got my page tops from ofrhz and I’m satisfied so I better stop refreshing this thread continuously

yee it kinda goes without saying something is missing from enigma's presence in this conversation
like...any intent to sort whatsoever

also enigma are u just generally against alts?
im getting that feeling from u

Nah doesn't bother me so much, meta only takes you so far when scumhunting

I think it's like actively antitown because it informs scum's decision of what to claim

Whilst I don't think its super productive, agree with Vex its fine to boot us out of RVS. I wouldn't say its helping scum unless people are literally softclaiming their TPRs, in which case helping scum CC is the least of our worries...

is fine talking w Vex basically 100% NAI interaction with no intent of sorting, and then

pageget

VOTE: Vex

i'm not really vibing that town!igma added the "what if he's an alt!" shade into the Vex conversation and then lolvotes him about 50 posts later. especially when he shows like no active interest in sorting the slot and voteparks this for like a week (ending below)

1. Don't CC any fake claims
2. Vote for who you want to (hypo) vig with hurt tags
3. Hypo cop results tomorrow

UNVOTE:
Waiting a bit

[ruru]

rvsing for a week is not scum-indicative for enigma and you know that

[the worst]

wrt enigma's claim not to care about early reads all that much...okkkkkk

my pypx/y (town!igma), closer to this game but still owe it a decent analytical read (it's hard when modding :C)

the lab 3 (town!igma), literally worlds apart from what we're seeing here in terms of effort presence energy sorting etc. and that's even with allowing for the fact enigma is a stronger lategame player

revenge of the vengeful (town!igma) only quickly glanced but appears closer to the lab 3 energy-wise--still literally dozens of times more engaged than he is here

^^^ i need to dive this harder to give credence to his self-assessment of not being big on early reads
but rn it reads more like someone who randed wolf and didn't feel like getting the game going


more to follow i need to go work for a bit. someone talk to me about this??


pedit: fucking hell ruru read the post. respond with more than a sentence with a throwaway line.
how is the mindset there towny?

[the worst]

rvsing for a week is not scum-indicative for enigma and you know that

actually i think it's non-town indicative
b o o m.

[the worst]

anyway if you disagree just talk to me. if you think there's strong meta against my case point me to it and work thru it with me. if you think i'm just approaching this wrong, tell me why i'm just approaching this wrong.

degrading my attempts to get into enigma's head with "rvsing for a week is not scum-indicative for enigma and you know that" is bullshit. hear me out.

[ruru]

my scumread on enigma in pyp was basically "rvses for a week, makes posts like 'scum or anti-town or noob? hmmm' rather than actually trying to sort people, half of his posts are pagetops/fluff"

it was wrong

[the worst]

Duck - Dunno sky was scummy, he might be scum (and he is good at playing scum so I can't figure him yet). Though he is good company so don't mind hanging around with him a few more days though wouldn't really want to see him in lylo (in this current gamestate)

where did you get this idea from Engima?

pedit: ruru read my posts.

[the worst]

i really need to get back to work but i'm excitededed
ugghgh i wish i had more timeeeee but someone other than ruru talk to me bc she's a wolf or officially being bad on purpose

Spoiler: mentions of cj incoming

I remember reading somewhere that A50 complaining about how he is a prime N1 target as both scum and town, kinda see why now. I've played with A50 a few times, but only with him as scum. He feels a bit different here though ... maybe in the game solving? Though the hypo scum me would do this/that including mod guessing isn't helping his case since there are too many variables for a mechanic play D1. As I mentioned previously, I'm not a huge fan of the V/LA push on MWNN considering it is a site-wide absence rather than this game only, but now that CJ is in the slot and should hopefully be more active (and I've played with CJ before and know his game a bit better) I'm leaning towards overlooking this for D1, though the associative will be interesting late game with more flips. For me, he is kinda a player that is night action bait and if he is alive in LYLO without hard clears you start asking some serious questions.

lawl fine in isolation but not strong either way

do you know why tw is scumreading you?

Uh meta I guess? He never directly read me like this before.

CJ, I know you have played with tw before in ruru's open 722 as scum. Are there any other games where tw plays, where you have been scum? Interested to try to see where tw is coming from (as I only know town CJ).

ruru this was your game ... do you understand where tw is coming from?

coachy, trying to steer wagon off CJ w ruru?

do you know why tw is scumreading you?

Uh meta I guess? He never directly read me like this before.

CJ, I know you have played with tw before in ruru's open 722 as scum. Are there any other games where tw plays, where you have been scum? Interested to try to see where tw is coming from (as I only know town CJ).

ruru this was your game ... do you understand where tw is coming from?

Sorry I meant 733 here.

my creds with cjv incoming

mini normal 2021 - scum!tw & VT!cjv. he was the d1 mislynch
newbie 1878 - I was scum and a late rep in, witnessed d1 cjv lynch as town tracker
open 733 we were s/s with Ircher and had a perfect win and it was very, very funny
open 725 I was town seer cjv was werewolf, I caught his buddy n1 he survived and won
open 720 I was detective killed n1 cjv was VT lynched d2 (we don't talk about open 720)
Newbie 1870 I was vt and endgamed, cjv town tracker killed n1
newbie 1866 cjv was VT lynched d1, I survived and won as VT
Newbie 1882 I read, cjv was town mislynched
Open 730 I spectated, cjv was town RB and survived and won
Newbie 1864 I spectated, cjv was VT and survived and won

So your meta read is based mainly on 733 and 725 then? Before I read them, are you scum reading CJ or not town reading CJ?

not-town-reading
slightly scumread his pred

Well I've played a few town with CJ so I'll look over them a bit (probs tomorrow).
How did you manage to read MWNN as scum with 3 contentless V/LA posts??

The speed at which the CJ wagon formed is a bit off putting .. the VCA will be interesting if/when he flips

CJ and NWMM are so contentless I can barely make a read, and I don't even know if CJ has read the whole thread yet ...
Reading Open 733 where CJ was scum (with tw), CJ actually (pretends) to scumhunt a bit, actively pushes mislynches, and interacts with the gamestate. Open 725 is a bit of a mess to read, but CJ feels also a bit more actively driving lynches (and he was bussing his partner AP).

Maybe part of why I'm hesitant, in addition to CJ simply having zero content, is a lack of CJ voting on someone so far and advancing the game state. I've also mislynched CJ in other games, partly because he was lurky and didn't get a chance to defend himself. But I've also seen town CJ defend himself as the lynch target when he was more active.

So meta wise I don't quite see the picture on CJ.

:THINKING HARD:

Tbh my preference is still frank as he has yet to satisfactory alleviate the scum concerns on him.
Would not be opposed to CJ vig shot, maybe because I'm not convinced about his alignment (and maybe there is/isn't a vig) but also because I'm kinda interested to know how CJ flips just to figure out the deal with wagon dynamics lol.

Need to read Gamma properly.

Would like to see more from Bujaber and HWS as not sure about their slots.

:THHHHIIIIINNNNNNKKKKIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNG:

can we prod BJ

His vote on A50 is useless and I want to see where he puts it and why by EOD

:brain explodes:

Lynch/vig pool: {GE, CJ, Frank}

no vote.

Oh thats useful thanks. Its right for me, time to do this
HURT: CJ
I hope we have a vig after all of this

steering wagon off CJ & vig onto him

I mean I don't think it is possible to get a lynch on duckling happening in <48 hours. I'm pretty sold that I want to see Frank and/or CJ flip at this stage and it would take a bit of convincing to move enough people onto counter wagons before EOD

still no vote, later votes BUJABER!??!

Then who is the alternative for the day? CJ?? Because CJ is also due to be replaced.
That being said, I'm quite over D1 and am becoming somewhat apathetic to who is lynched today (still prefer frank) and rather just want to see a lynch before the deadline.

steers wagon off CJ, then votes with Buj to wagon uppppppppppppppp

VOTE COUNT 1.22

Almost50 (1):

ejjinami

HeWhoSwims (0):

the worst (1):

Creature

ruru (0):

BuJaber (2):

ruru, Enigma

ceejayvinoya (1):

the worst

Enigma (0):

ejjinami (3):

skitter30, Almost50, Vex Vience

Creature (0):

Gamma Emerald (1):

HeWhoSwims

skitter30 (0):

Vex Vience (0):

Not Voting (3):

ceejayvinoya, BuJaber, Gamma Emerald

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

Deadline paused until ceejayvinoya is replaced

Other

:
- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays
- skitter30 also V/LA Sunday night - Tuesday night (9/11)

:thinking with small scraps of explodinated brain which still cling to skull:

[ruru]

I assume you're talking about 2442?

I would expect a meta-case to look something like "enigma does X more frequently as scum than as town" or "X is a general scumtell and enigma doesn't do it as town" and I don't feel like that was either of those

like if you want to talk about ISPing skygazer is a lot worse and I haven't felt much genuine scumhunting from your slot this game either

like, you realize bujaber is the other one pushing the argument that enigma is fluffing too much to be town and I'm scumreading both of you so enigma really strongly feels like designated mislynch to me

[the worst]

someone other than ruru talk to me bc she's a wolf or officially being bad on purpose

this. come at me