Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[CheekyTeeky]

Lightning Rods basically always have modifiers. Did they claim unlimited?

No, it's better they don't claim tbh.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Lightning Rods basically always have modifiers. Did they claim unlimited?

For the record, I do not have any flavor between the 1 and 2 RR was looking for.

My Role PM is simply...
"You are

[REDACTED]

. You are a

Lightning Rod

.

[Explanation of Lightning Rod]

. You win when all threats to the Serenity Crew are gone."

I am not Compulsive.

I'll also happily lynch any 3rd party claim, but that's not the same as actively hunting for 3rd party.

That’s all he said about it.

[CheekyTeeky]

Hmm I'm glad tails is here but if he's neutral there's nothing stopping us from lynching that slot tbh. I don't believe he's neutral and based on Chicks posts it would actually point to him being HoB.

[CheekyTeeky]

I hereby declare that I shall die on the 2nd day of 2nd month in year 2022, so I'd get to be with Ace. <2

In fact I can see this being a scumslip, with Nico potentially claiming to be River here. If Nico were River she wouldn't know and therefore wouldn't crumb 22. (River often said two by two hands of blue).

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: Tails

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

@)Humble request to Almost: if Robin doesnt post game-relevant content in say 24 hours, I feel a replacement is necessary considering all the prod dodges with no real content from the slot.

Or we can just flash wagon the slot and be done with it all together. We've been pussy footing around all day, had plenty of "shady" players in sights, and for whatever reason no one cares to actually seal the deal on anything.

Going for the slot Chickadee is saying could be clear RN is a horrible decision, but getting someone who'll be useful to town or basically scare the scum into killing the slot from prior experience with said player is much better then a hang.

+1

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

VOTE: Tails

???

So, you are disagreeing with Chick on Nico/Tails probably being River?

And if you believe their claim. then they can’t obviously be HoB right?

The only thing I’m confused about is why HoB would want to kill a CN?

But it makes absolutely no sense for Tails to be lying about their slot, since Chick had that slot as likely town, right?

So Tails is unlikely to be HoB in any case, and I think lynching them should always be our focus, before 3Ps. You disagree?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Hmm I'm glad tails is here but if he's neutral there's nothing stopping us from lynching that slot tbh. I don't believe he's neutral and based on Chicks posts it would actually point to him being HoB.

I hereby declare that I shall die on the 2nd day of 2nd month in year 2022, so I'd get to be with Ace. <2

In fact I can see this being a scumslip, with Nico potentially claiming to be River here. If Nico were River she wouldn't know and therefore wouldn't crumb 22. (River often said two by two hands of blue).

Oh, this changes things.

But still why claim CN , when he didn’t need to claim or why not claim town?

[ruru]

votecount

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Toogeloo (4):	Aristophanes (2761),	Elsa Jay (2765),	Chickadee (2780),	Gamma Emerald (2792),
McMenno (3):	BuJaber (2082),	Flicker (2613),	Nancy Drew Shogunate (2814),
Nancy Drew Shogunate (2):	Thor665 (2092),	Toogeloo (2774),
Malakittens (1):	McMenno (2535),
Gamma Emerald (1):	Chara (2710),
Tails (1):	CheekyTeeky (2829),
Not voting (4):	Tails,	Reasonably Rational,	Malakittens,	Jingle (2402),

(expired on 2018-10-29 22:00:00) remain.

[Tails]

Tails does it make a difference to know that Jingle has claimed Mason and Gamma has just now confirmed he is the other Mason?

I saw Ari's quote wall, tyvm. And I caught the second, but was keeping quiet in case my gut was wrong on Jingle. Like I said, there's some flavor issues I'm working through, but an ISO read will probably help.

[Tails]

Spoiler:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#alignment

You guys are idiots.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Wtf is a chaotic neutral

I couldn’t find any definition of it on Mafia Wiki but apparently roles with a chaotic modifier do exist.


Manho
Lazarus the Soul Chaotic Compulsive Commuter - Destroyed Day 3 - Loss
4 KB (650 words) - 13:09, 29 June 2012

[BuJaber]

It's used in many many contexts.
I don't know why anyone took your "chaotic neutral" comment seriously.

[Tails]

I know, right! I get asked a silly question. I gave a silly answer.

[Tails]

Nancy is town from this confusion. Not so sure about Cheeky, though. That's too much of a "gotcha" response to me.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Spoiler:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#alignment

You guys are idiots.

Chaotic Neutral, "Free Spirit"
A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn’t strive to protect others’ freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from himself suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it.

Chaotic neutral is the best alignment you can be because it represents true freedom from both society’s restrictions and a do-gooder’s zeal.

Isn’t this a DnD term?

Like I’ve taken that test and usually score neutral good. So, how does this relate to Mafia?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Nancy is town from this confusion

. Not so sure about Cheeky, though. That's too much of a "gotcha" response to me.

Shhhhh . . . the people hungering for my mislynch, won’t be too happy to hear you say this.

[CheekyTeeky]

Tails it wouldn't be a stupid question if you'd actually taken the time to read the thread. But sure add another 10 pages so people can help you catch up.

[CheekyTeeky]

Anyway wtf was Nico crumbing in her first post?

[Tails]

I haven't read Nico's ISO. So no clue.

[Tails]

@Nancy: It doesn't. I was asked what my alignment was, so I gave an alignment from D&D just to be cheeky. CN also happens to be the "I do what I want" alignment, which I thought was funny and kinda appropriate for this game.

[Tails]

Also Cheek, if my predecessor was trying to crumb something, why do you think I would tell you what it was?

[BuJaber]

I kinda think Nico/Tails have a role that wants to die.

I don't think anything as horrible as a bomb or jester but maybe venge or something.

Like we're basically just saving this slot because we're giving Chick the benefit of the doubt.

Can anyone tell me why they think Menno is town?
Sky was really meh compared to town!sky and menno is scummy.

Actually a better question is why isn't ANY wagon getting hammered yet.. don't lynch within the claims YET. That's all there is to it.

We can discuss any fake claim potential later.
Lynching 3p is bad for reasons other people have explained better than I could.
Lynching Jingle, Gamma, Chick, Tails is condemning two slots in one so a cash against one of the two is not enough.
Lynching Toog doesn't make sense. Once we have some idea of night actions his claim gets proven/disproven.

Tora is very probably town. I can't see any scum motivation to claiming his 3p read on Elsa and bragging about it. Maybe if they were both scum together, but if that were the case it will sort itself out if the time comes to lynch Elsa (either by losing a lot of scum and the game is still in progress, or by losing enough town that she becomes a liability). Plus he felt townie to me in the fight with RC.

I've left many clues that I'm town I think.

For now this leaves us with:
Chara
Thor665
McMenno
Reasonably Rational
Aristophanes

Who have neither claimed nor had someone claim for them. We can probably remove RR from the list because of Drixx's role PM stuff.. (though I admit that would be pretty cool scum performance). Thor seems pretty townie overall especially after the TPF flip.
We should lynch Menno, Ari, or Chara.

[Tails]

Jabs, I'll probably end up sheeping today, unless I see something I really want to die. I'd be up for Toog, because what I've seen from other ISOs make me want that slot dead, but it's not really a town/scum read.

Quote the Drixx thing. That sounds interesting, and I don't want to dig for it.

[BuJaber]

Spoiler: For Tails

Chick's probably town, for me the issue is the River-centric posts not always having to point to River. Chick said the cop is supposed to hint at the flavour, not blatantly state it.

do you care if you're lynched?

i'd prefer if I wasn't lynched.

Can I get something better than you'd prefer not? Nobody (usually) WANTS to get lynched.

So I figure at this point the damage is done so I might as well point out what we have. Either A50 just thought we needed some extra special sentences or else most/all town also have some extra flavor they weren't considering flavor since it's a lead in to their role explanation.

We have a redacted character name. Cerb and I believe the best bet for us is Book with an outside chance Inara could fit the bill. Book is much better of a fit because of the next bit we have: This ship is your home and the crew is your family. In an effort to protect them, {explanation of what we do}

Followed by: ROLE NAME and EXPLICIT mechanical description of how it works.

I am unsure to what extent this will help at all, but that's enough to be getting on with I think.


@Malakittens - I'm gonna be up a little while. Then I'm going to sleep for a bit. You have like 9 hours to post something of some substance or I will be voting you and there was already L-1 on you. You can do that math.

~D

So I figure at this point the damage is done so I might as well point out what we have. Either A50 just thought we needed some extra special sentences or else most/all town also have some extra flavor they weren't considering flavor since it's a lead in to their role explanation.

ehhh i.... don't believe any damage had been done until you were unnecessarily explicit.
what does outing this help? you're already town and you won't be lynched.

what's done is done i suppose.

One of two things is true:

1.) All town have some flavor transition into their role mechanics.
2.) Not all town have it. Perhaps only us.

If 1 is true, then any town flip gives scum what I posted (and the day almost ended before I had a chance to post at all). If 2 is true, then there's nothing to learn from the role PM construction that's useful for game solving.

In all cases, my misplay earlier this day phase already alerted all scum that the warning they got about us having redacted role names was not sufficient for them to fake a town role PM ... at least not with 100% security. That means we only have what came before that post to work with in terms of that, given that it was just too implausible for us to arrange a time where town would drop in an answer to the question within 5-10 seconds so it couldn't be quoted and quickly stripped of bad tags by scum.

And even then since timestamps are to the minute, it would have required me to post every 10 seconds or something to note the time passage.

A lot of trouble for ... at best it would have given some near confirms and broken the game in a way the mod didn't want. So ... eh. I kinda shat the bed on this one honestly.

~D

My flavor is retracted also. I'm a 3rd party. In order for me to win I need a player to be lynched. if they are NK'd I lose the game. I'm also apparently full Bulletproof in order to help me survive to meet my win condition

So you're the bounty hunter or the operative. What happens if you meet your lyncher condition? Do you exit the game also?

~D

I mean ... yeah. That makes you the operative. The Bounty Hunter was after River. Maybe some outside chance you're Niska, but someone else is more probable for Niska so ...

Also ... it feels a little weird to have a lyncher in the game. The way the game is constructed, the player who is Mal almost certainly doesn't know that they are unless A50 made an exception and gave them a lot of explanation. But ... being given that extra instruction would put said player on the watch for something like you're claiming so ... yeah. You gotta just randomly hope whomever got that role gets mislynched?

Like ... I guess there's nothing for it. I'll wait a bit for folks to process, but I don't see any EV in letting you live. You're not on our side and have every reason to try and lynch town reads. If you happen to be alive later and Mal eats it, we have an unexpected numbers change. That makes it hard to have any idea where we stand.

I'm sure you can make all the arguments yourself. You know what happens next. Ka.

~D

All, saffron, not scarlet. I had to look that up to remember her “real” name.

Yeah ... Saffron wasn't ever any actual threat to Mal. The Operative would have killed him if not for the war wound. Of the two ... the operative is the one who actually had a true purpose in going after him, while Saffron was just a grifter who showed up repeatedly.

Malakittens does make a good point.

As far as EJ goes: Jay is

absolutely

good enough to make that claim as scum and pull it off. And as town. Cerb and I spent some time talking about it already and ultimately we feel like that slot is just going to resolve itself within a couple phases. If it doesn't, then it has to eat rope for all the reasons already stated.

At this point it's probably actually more EV than I thought to leave Malakittens around. There were two slips in that post and even as much as I respect Mala and believe that could have been staged, it and the following posts are just too dead on exactly what to expect if we're seeing honesty. So scum can try and find Mal and know they get an extra kill out of it which bypasses the swing mechanic ... or they can come after one of a few of us who are probably on their list. It's not great but it's more than a pile of slots are offering right now.

I need sleep but I would suggest we find a better lynch target.

~D

Town players: Look at your role PM. I want you to

LOOK

for now but make no comment in the thread yet. There are three potential outcomes to this, and the best one would be snagging multiple scum, so please bear with me.

Let's look at the sample Role PM and break it down into its components:

Greeting: Hello {Name}

Role Paragraph, broken into several parts:

1.) Character: You are {Redacted but revealed on flip or end of game}. <--- From TPFKAP's flip we see that scum actually know who they are and also get a very hard to miss warning that we do not.
2.) Flavor: A sentence that gives a bit of flavor but isn't really the role.
3.) Role: Role Mechanics

Win Condition

---

So ... that's the sample.

In the part of the role paragraph I numbered "2" above, there's something

very specific

in our role pm. I suspect that it exists for most/all of town. So ... go take a look. It should be wildly obvious to you if you have it. And as a reminder, I will point out that Flicker claimed having a Role PM that went from the redacted sentence

DIRECTLY TO THE ROLE NAME/MECHANICS

when asked.

So ... what next?

1.) Assuming the sample PM and our PM are representative, then those of you who are town are going to see what I'm talking about. The problem is that the moment any of us say it precisely (or one of us flips), then that bit of info ceases to be of any value, other than the obvious part where Flicker appears NOT to have it.

It seems very unlikely that we can catch anyone else out at this point, assuming this actually is the way I think it is. They're alerted now.

But maybe there is a way to perhaps catch someone or perhaps confirm some of you.

I suggest that I make a timer and people prepare a spoiler button answer to what they have and preview it to ensure it's correct and then have that copied and ready to go. When the timer expires everyone posts theirs (and we post ours). It will only be useful if someone tries to fake but doesn't have what we have and/or for the small few people who actually are willing to make a post in a very short window.

Maybe all it does is confirm us to people who have the same thing and give strong evidence of Scum!Flicker. Maybe we get more out of it. I dunno ... I thought about it all day and I couldn't think of a better way to leverage it.

But I do know that from the sample and from the setup spec that has gone on today that it's pretty likely most or all of you who are town with us have some variation of what we have immediately following the redacted character name part of the role PM.

Apologies if it's not super coherent. I'm going to go sleep now. I'll check back in a few hours and see if this made sense to people. I'm open to better ways to try and get +EV out of it but I think there's not many plausible ways really.

~Drixx

I mean ... "You are flying pumpkin that shoots lasers out your arse" or whatever the precise wording of the sample PM is ... isn't actually role info. It's flavor. Specifically ... it's flavor that explains the role.

We have flavor that gives the motivation for our role. I would expect at least 5 or 6 of the characters on the ship to have something very similar to ours.

As far as the mason claim goes: there's two obvious mason pairs who are unambiguously and obviously going to be town if they are used in this game. One doesn't make sense. The other does. If you are that pair of people, I would actually expect that it would have been difficult to give any flavor explaining your mason connection that would not ALSO have given away which characters you are. (The pairs I'm thinking of: Simon and River; Zoe and Wash).

Make of this what you will. I was in a hurry and misplayed so the question now is whether to go anywhere with this. I also already raised the ethical concern of whether going along these lines is even something we want to do. Like ... if it is true that every town role pm was constructed with some kind of flavor statement that transitions into the role mechanics ... then using that would bypass the obvious mod intent of NOT breaking the game by flavor. But ... when I asked this question earlier the only reactions were opposite of this line of thinking.

So I guess we'll wait a bit and let folks check in and decide if they want to do anything with it. If not, I'm personally happy to divulge what we've got. At this point, I can't imagine any town seriously having any doubts about us which means we're probably going to be killed off because I misplayed.

~D

@Jingle can we just lynch Bujaber? They seem to be missing the point, and given the other suspicion of them...it might do well to resolve the entire situation. Either our suspicions about what we've found are wrong, OR this ignorance they're showing actually means what we think it does.

-Cerb

I’m intentionally not leading wagons today as is my right as a claimed mason.

I won’t stop you though and may or may not give you my vote if you go there.

Speaking of this.

You do not have a right ot lead any wagons until 1) your partner explicitly confirms the masonry, and 2) one of you flips as town mason.

Until then, you're just as likely to be ballsy scum as town.

JS.

Like, two games ago Drixx and I won as quasi-scum via claiming mason with our scum partner.

Note, I do not want you to claim etc. I'm just reminding everyone that such claims should not be accepted as truth until there is a flip to support it. I get why you wouldn't want to expose the partner as an actual mason, so I don't want that to happen, but scum fake claiming would do the same.

-Cerb

pedit: Bujaber, it is literally impossible for your flip to prove us wrong on ANYTHING. I don't even have a position on you. The only thing your flip would do is let us know if what Jingle, and Chara, and others it seems, is universal. If it's not, which we don't expect it to be, that doesn't mean it's not something that could be used to confirm some individuals, which was the point. ^^

Sorry the quotes get really jumbled up. Might be easier to just read the last 25 or so posts in their ISO.