Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)


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Post Post #3600 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:41 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 3594, CheekyTeeky wrote:
In post 3583, Jingle wrote:
In post 3580, Reasonably Rational wrote:@A50: I...feel like that number of 3 should not have been given to us...
Nope. It's the number above the threshhold. If he'd said 4 it would have meant something.
That means theres only one groupscum faction right? 2 max from the group scum, and 1 from the 3p.
No lol XD

Likely 9 town, 2 HoB + Traitor, 2 3P, and 3 left for the other scumteam.
Prolly Niska and his cronies for the other 3.
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Post Post #3601 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:42 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

In post 3596, Jingle wrote:No, it means it's possible for 3 nontown players to die, assuming three nontown players exist.

This is a parsing problem.

3 can doesn't imply 4 can't.
Yes, I get that. The clarification by the mod that they intended to say 3 or more is what was necessary. This isn't a parsing problem, it's a precision problem. 3 or more is not the same as 3.
In post 3597, Flicker wrote:
In post 3589, Aristophanes wrote:Why not?
Not getting rid of the competition still goes against their eventual win!
Actually, it's heavily implied/explicitly stated by the win condition that different scum factions can win together:
In post 0, Almost50 wrote:4-
The game ends when either all threats to town have been eliminated or all town members have been eliminated.
Yep. I wouldn't assume that some scum can't win together.

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Post Post #3602 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:42 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 3597, Flicker wrote:
In post 3589, Aristophanes wrote:Why not?
Not getting rid of the competition still goes against their eventual win!
Actually, it's heavily implied/explicitly stated by the win condition that different scum factions can win together:
In post 0, Almost50 wrote:4-
The game ends when either all threats to town have been eliminated or all town members have been eliminated.
Oooo interesting catch actually!
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Post Post #3603 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:44 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

In post 3600, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 3594, CheekyTeeky wrote:
In post 3583, Jingle wrote:
In post 3580, Reasonably Rational wrote:@A50: I...feel like that number of 3 should not have been given to us...
Nope. It's the number above the threshhold. If he'd said 4 it would have meant something.
That means theres only one groupscum faction right? 2 max from the group scum, and 1 from the 3p.
No lol XD

Likely 9 town, 2 HoB + Traitor, 2 3P, and 3 left for the other scumteam.
Prolly Niska and his cronies for the other 3.
A50 said only 3 kills outside of town are possible IF theyre not the same alignment.

If we had what you're proposing then we could have 2+1+2 = 5. So lol you.
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Post Post #3604 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:44 pm

Post by Jingle »

While that is true, Flicker, it doesn't mean they're not threats to each other.

Scum benefits from dropping the number of potential incoming shots just as much as town does. Unless they're literally the scummiest players in the thread, there's a chance they'll be shot. If they're the scummiest players in the thread, we're probably going to win anyway.

Cerbs is using the wrong logic from the prisoner's dilemma.

If both parties are trustworthy, both parties benefit. If either party isn't trustworthy, they benefit more. If both parties aren't trustworthy, both parties benefit.

You never benefit from being trustworthy. You benefit from convincing the other party you're going to be trustworthy.

If I was scum, I'd 100% be trying to convince the other team that holstering their shot is the optimal play. I'd also 100% not be holstering my shot.
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Post Post #3605 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:45 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Unless there's only 3 killing roles?
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Post Post #3606 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:46 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 3599, CheekyTeeky wrote:So now I'm thinking 3scum+1traitor + 3p
You know that TPFKAP's PM explicitly says HoB is a 2 man group with a traitor, right?
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Post Post #3607 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:47 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

But then how does it make sense?
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Post Post #3608 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:47 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 3604, Jingle wrote:While that is true, Flicker, it doesn't mean they're not threats to each other.

Scum benefits from dropping the number of potential incoming shots drop just as much as town does. Unless they're literally the scummiest players in the thread, there's a chance they'll be shot. If they're the scummiest players in the thread, we're probably going to win anyway.

Cerbs is using the wrong logic from the prisoner's dilemma.

If both parties are trustworthy, both parties benefit. If either party isn't trustworthy, they benefit more. If both parties aren't trustworthy, both parties benefit.

You never benefit from being trustworthy. You benefit from convincing the other party you're going to be trustworthy.

If I was scum, I'd 100% be trying to convince the other team that holstering their shot is the optimal play. I'd also 100% not be holstering my shot.
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Post Post #3609 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:49 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Well Ari let me know if you're going to shoot me so I can claim.
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Post Post #3610 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:49 pm

Post by Jingle »

9v3v3v1v1 remains the most likely imo.

9v1v1v1v1v1v3 is theoretically possible, as is 9v3v2v1v1v1.

10v3v2v1v1 also a vague possibility.
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Post Post #3611 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:51 pm

Post by Jingle »

I'd rather you not shoot CT or RR, because both have softclaimed and thus are likely to be solved (or partially solved) in massclaim. Which I believe should happen tomorrow.
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Post Post #3612 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:51 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

So by the mods logic we only have 3 killing roles otherwise he errored.
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Post Post #3613 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:52 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

Also, for the record: I think I'm done here for the night. Make your deliberate mislynch if you'd like. It's foolish to do so, but you're welcome to continue being foolish, and I don't believe there's any benefit to be found in continuing to try to talk people who are doing something dumb and are obstinate in their defense of doing it.

Have a good night everyone. I have no idea who the optimal shot is if Ari is lynched and is town. It depends on how many targeted shots town have. I do know that town *should* use all their targeted shots they can tonight if two town die in this phase, and that no protectives should be used by anyone.

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Post Post #3614 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:54 pm

Post by Flicker »

In post 3591, Almost50 wrote:
In post 3580, Reasonably Rational wrote:@A50: I...feel like that number of 3 should not have been given to us...
It's the least number above two. :lol:
3
or more
non-town players can die, provided that no more than 2 are of the same faction.
@Cheeky:
No, that's not what the mod said.
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Post Post #3615 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:54 pm

Post by Jingle »

Nope. Cerbs is applying more precision to the statement than is implied by the statement.

"3 kills is possible" does not in any way imply "4 kills is impossible"

Cerbs is right that 3 or more (which A50 clarified was the intended meaning) is more correct, but 3 remains correct.
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Post Post #3616 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:54 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

To elaborate: If town have 4 targeted shots or more to use tonight, then venging Jingle or Gamma is optimal, because doing so clears an additional slot. If all the shots got used without overlap, that's 5 conftown, and probably enough to just win the game with.

If town have 1 targeted shot, then venging elsewhere is better, because you're not trading one "conftown" for another.

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Post Post #3617 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:55 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Oh goddammit
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Post Post #3618 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:55 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

Sorry A50. You're never wrong :P
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Post Post #3619 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:01 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

You people hurt my head.
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Post Post #3620 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:02 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 3611, Jingle wrote:I'd rather you not shoot CT or RR, because both have softclaimed and thus are likely to be solved (or partially solved) in massclaim. Which I believe should happen tomorrow.
Prolly is gonna be one of the two.
In post 3609, CheekyTeeky wrote:Well Ari let me know if you're going to shoot me so I can claim.
I'll let you know asap. Gonna do a quick read of you both first.
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Post Post #3621 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:02 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

You're shooting the biggest obv towns. Ugh.
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Post Post #3622 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:04 pm

Post by CheekyTeeky »

If you're going to shoot a blatant towny you may as well shoot gamma so you confirm jingle :lol:
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Post Post #3623 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:06 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

Why are you two obvtown??

I have not read either of you as obvtown!
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Post Post #3624 (ISO) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:07 pm

Post by Flicker »

@Ari:
What, no, don't shoot Cheeky or RR! I was gonna vote you, but not if you're gonna make a mistake like that...

I'd shoot in the unclaimed/unsofted pool - which I believe is just Thor, Nancy, and Light at this point.

I'm gonna go down the whole list again, just to be sure:

Toogeloo - Lightning Rod
Jingle - Mason w/Gamma
Tails - Bodyguard
Chara - softed town something via role PM convo?
Nancy Drew 39 - nothing?
Chickadee - flavor cop
Flicker - priest
Thor665 - nothing?
BuJaber - softed town something via role PM convo?
CheekyTeeky - softed town something via role PM convo
Light Ethos - nothing?
Elsa Jay -
Neutral
Town Aesthetic Bulletproof Doctor
Reasonably Rational - softed town something via role PM convo
Malakittens - lyncher
Gamma Emerald - Mason w/Jingle

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