A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Vecna]

Not sure on that one, my role pm just states that anyone visiting me hears the music im listening to. If its blockable or not.....id have to ask the mod.

Regardless, such questions make it all the more unlikely a roleblocker would try to roleblock me to confirm that part.

[Vecna]

Did you ever learn Porkens role NR? Or got any useful result there?

[Vecna]

Right. I always keep fucking up on how that works over here.

[Vecna]

I really cannot think of a scumteam in this setup that would actually let NR dictate the NK here lol.

Also, they really have to deal with Mastina and the clears she's generating. Unless ofcourse.....yeah.

[Vecna]

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

So youre not a role-cop, but Mastina got a demand to show her your role?

These claims are getting wilder and wilder

[Vecna]

Scum day chat in combination with how shit went down would really explain a lot here.

Or maybe its just good ole Vecna being a human, and seeing conspiracy where its a good old case of coincidence.

Legion kicks ass fyi

[Vecna]

Guys, my previous musing wasnt just random fyi. Dont get too stuck in deep.

[Vecna]

Porkens rejected the thing and so NR got the triple vote

Well, now that the cat is out of the bag, that's why I scumread him. Given the consequences of rejection, town have no reason to reject. The only reason to reject is if the pros outweighed the cons ie. that giving up his role would get him lynched for sure.

So what is it, tracking or role cop?

[Vecna]

And did you get the same message on Mastina as you received from Porkens?

We need details, accurate ones. Stop being dodgy or youre getting lynched.

[Vecna]

Ive scumread Porkens the entire game, that is not what were discussing here.

Answers

[Vecna]

I am giving you 24 hours to explain why you didn't follow the instructions, or I will re-vote.

I don’t want to trust

Relevant. Clearly indicating its about role id say.

[Vecna]

Jailkeep only roleblocks.

Factually Incorrect.

Jailkeep prevents all actions taken by or targeting the target.

Mastina specifically wasn't Jailkept.

Also, pizza is delicious.

The mafiascum wiki actually says it roleblocks the target and prevents all killing actions against the target. Apparently the standard version on this website allows other actions to still target whomever is jailkept.

[Vecna]

Im really quite interested in wtf happened, since NR stated a no result, while Mastina (seemingly) panickingly stated that she got asked about her role, and wanted Porkens to confirm. Mastina does not strike me as the type who would get the two confused while explaining what happened.

[Vecna]

VOTE: NicoRobin

[Vecna]

I strongly feel that these role shenanigans surrounding NR warrants a gladiate from Mastina at this point, and I really dont see how any ammount of talking or arguing about topics is going to change that little tidbit, or result in a more important gladiate target today.

So like, pull the that trigger imo and get that verdict in here.

[Vecna]

You can help me run up Porkens tomorrow if this clusterfuck somehow reveals that you are town NicoRobin.

[Vecna]

Question: does your role specify that the person youre targetting gets asked to reveal their role, but then that it gives you tracker/watcher powers on that person instead?

Is there any indication in your role pm that hints at the prompt lying to these people about what is actually being asked of them to surrender?

[Vecna]

In other words, is what Mastina and Porkens claim to have been asked a lie here, or is your role just functioning very weird. Whats the story there?

[Vecna]

So youre saying people are indeed asked to reveal their role, but instead you watch/track them?

[Vecna]

What's the flavour for your different abilities called

Make the damn uPick and You Promised

@Vecna I looked at my role PM again, and it seems that I am not a Watcher after all, but a Role Cop.

Guess this is what happens when I don't read my own role PM thoroughly..... :O

At this point, I deserve to be lynched for sheer stupidity......

Luckily, we have just the thing to check if this was stupidity, or just scumlicious.

[Vecna]

Noone else is making us content to engage with Varsoon. Theyre all just like, absent.

Get us something else to discuss in the meanwhile, and Ill gladly discuss it.

You actually think Porkens is town here? Regardless of the stuff that happened around NR?

[Vecna]

We'll see about that.

[Vecna]

I meant we'll deal with that -if- it becomes an issue. I have no reason to assume itll become an issue, since youre pretty much a slam-dunk target for her ability with all the nonsense you've drowned us in over the last 25 pages.

[Vecna]

I do feel strongly that there is no way that NicoRobin and Porkens are scum together here though. The ammount of fakery required......nope.

I also have no idea how this play from NicoRobin comes from town though.

Its like a triangle that doesnt match. One of the three assumptions has to be wrong. Either Porkens is town, or NR is town, or they both came up with a very very out there plan and a shitton of dedication to make it believable.

But at the same time I do not believe for a second that both of them are town.

[Vecna]

im fairly sure she is scum, and got told in scum chat to change her story when I implied that Mastina mightve been untargetable last night. Gave her an excuse to get away with not clearing her for us. After they failed to kill her last night, and have their gambit to mislynch her fail after fakeclaiming a rolecop guilty.

[Vecna]

But that might be once again my brain deciding to spot conspiracy where none exists. I tend to do that, all too often.

[Vecna]

We totally could. But that option is still there if Mastina is actually town here, and she uses her ability on NicoRobin.

[Vecna]

I understand

[Vecna]

VOTE: NicoRobin
Right?
If every conversation is just going to come back to this
Or Mastina
Let's solve it.

Aye, my vote is there

[Vecna]

I mean but still, either Mastina is lying and scum and should be lynched.....or her ability is the most optimal way for us to cruise to victory until she gets got.

The fact people are committing suicide to try and get her lynched on a faked guilty right after a no-kill night, makes me kinda lean towards the latter.

Its boring and dangerous. But effective

[Vecna]

Yep, the result is definitely a more drawn out game. Hence why especially Mastina needs to consider that and she should hurry up more and duel people more rapidly, so people dont burn out.

Regardless, she'll have to die at some point, for both alignments sake

[Vecna]

@mod - can you do another update on the p1 playerlist with replacements?

[Vecna]

I never left the game mastina, so you going to replace our or what

Nope! I will however move my vote from one scum to another.
VOTE: Firebringer.
Could still vote for V tho.
Also Lady Angel.

I realize that there's more than 3 scum, but I'd need to do a readslist and unpack my thoughts in order to name the other 2/3. Some players I can tell you aren't scum, e.g. jjh, Jingle, Nico, but I can't remember all the players in the game so. Can't give a read on someone who I don't even remember is in the game!

But right now. Since a top townread is being wagoned, my priority is dismantling that wagon so that we can vote for the REAL scum.

On that note. Since I'm phoneposting, there are some things that I can't do, e.g. link to games. (In particular, I want to link to Lynch the Wolves, because it is hands down bar none the best possible reference for understanding why Nico is town this game. Jingle may be able to guess what I'm going for here, as it's both a town and scum example simultaneously.)

But what I CAN do. Is explain where I am coming from.

Early in the game, I scumread Nico, because she was playing to her scum meta: lurking, doing nothing. Near the end of D1, she started aggressively pushing me. A promising sign, because she uses Burden of Proficiency on me; she knows that I can read her better than any other player on site, so my scumreading a town-Nico, in her eyes, would be a scumclaim from me.

It is not beyond her ability to fake, but it was a step in the right direction. Then you get her D2 antics, which ARE beyond her capacity tofake. A certain level of stubborn indignance, where she pushes hard on ideas that drive people crazy and want to policy lynch her.

But as Jingle so rightly pointed out. We can't policy Lynch this game and even if we could, I'd never abide by it because I am vehemently against the idea. We aim to Lynch scum. Not people who are annoying.

The town motivation lies in her being a particularly quirky human, prone to certain behaviors, including misreading roles and/or fakeclaiming. It's obviously always detrimental especially in games combining both, but it is a hard, solid towntell no matter how much you don't like it.

Even by Nico's own admission, this is faulty meta use though. She actually can be extremely active, and do all the things she does here as scum as well. Read her behaviour in Spring fever - pretty sure that had an alt in her that nearly solo won the game for scum - by doing the exact same thing. She was death tunneling me in that game all game long, and because people used the exact same logic that you are using right here, everyone just kept her alive and kept townreading her.

Your analysis is faulty, and too simplistic. Its comparable to the standard creature read, where people are just being lazy and looking at activity level (although granted this goes further, but as I said, not 100% town indicative).

[Vecna]

Thank you for engaging with me here, appreciated. I like most of your points. I still have mechanical worries, and the point that she could very well be coached to use the ability to look good (which is always a better use of your skillset) but that indeed doesnt fit with the other things that she's been doing.

[Vecna]

Btw Mastina, can I not convince you to just pull the trigger on one of your reads? Or on Porkens? Even though the motivation might not be completely pure, its to the towns detriment to not just keep going and clear stuff at a decent pace.

As long as the targets isnt something that is likely to get nightkilled soon, its a good target regardless.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Porkens

[Vecna]

Im almost prone to say that townclears > scum catches at this point.....even though having a confirmation scum caught to confirm that loyalty modifier would put a lot of minds at ease.

[Vecna]

Yo RC, answer those pm's boi

[Vecna]

So who has mastina 'cleared'
And why aren't those players dead from nightkills?
Do you people even stop to think
Do you?

N1 a towncleared person was killed
N2 we do not know what happened

[Vecna]

FWIW, from not my perspective I'm the optimal clear.

Confirming town me confirms the presence of a loud doc in the game.

The mechanical implications of that are really weird though:
-Why have a town mastina-role and a town loud-doc in the same setup? Extremely broken at face value
-If the last point is still true; why have scum not used the power that can offset that balance to kill Mastina last night?
-Why on earth was this loud doc on you?

Leads me strongly to believe that one of several of the following has to be true:
-Either Mastina or the loud doc have to be scum
-Or scum was not trying to kill JJH but Mastina last night, and this is a scum jingle rolefishing.....
-Or scum decided to not kill Mastina, or any of her clears, to raise suspicion and mount a massive lynch attempt on Mastina today
-Or scum has a watcher-type role that is meant for them to eliminate any protectives on Mastina

[Vecna]

Also, im not a big fan of Firebringers "your reads suck balls" against Mastina. I felt those reads were actually pretty decent overall, minus a bunch of tidbits. Sure were a lot of townreads though.

[Vecna]

Anyways, I am back to wanting Nico gladiated. Her role will be super useful if she is confirmed town, and nearly everyone is suspicious of that slot, so its a very useful gladiate. If mastina town-firms her, people also have a lot less reason to not show their role to her that way.

The flipside is: I doubt she'll be town.

The way she handled the guiltying does not sit well with me. Why would you push that wagon -that high- if you know you will get a result to your query in 48 hours that will confirm whether your suspicions are right or not. I went through some of those games Mastina's linked and I do not see such crap as her normal play. She just stamps her feet if people ignore her generally, not go to that length to get what she wants.

The second point is the fact she suddenly got no result. Mastina -WAS- targetable last night. RC finally came back to me, and even though I have no clue wtf happened, Mastina stated she did get the msg of my visit in the end, so it did work. She also got the visit from Nico. There is no mechanical reason whatsoever that she wouldnt have gotten a result.

There really is no bad outcome of gladiating NicoRobin.

VOTE: NicoRobin

[Vecna]

If were not gladiating Nico, we should do Whemestar

Noone is gonna convince me they can read into that bland drivel with just factional/opinional stating without reasoning

[Vecna]

ZzzzZzzZ

[Vecna]

FWIW, from not my perspective I'm the optimal clear.

Confirming town me confirms the presence of a loud doc in the game.

The mechanical implications of that are really weird though:
-Why have a town mastina-role and a town loud-doc in the same setup? Extremely broken at face value
-If the last point is still true; why have scum not used the power that can offset that balance to kill Mastina last night?
-Why on earth was this loud doc on you?

Leads me strongly to believe that one of several of the following has to be true:
-Either Mastina or the loud doc have to be scum
-Or scum was not trying to kill JJH but Mastina last night, and this is a scum jingle rolefishing.....
-Or scum decided to not kill Mastina, or any of her clears, to raise suspicion and mount a massive lynch attempt on Mastina today
-Or scum has a watcher-type role that is meant for them to eliminate any protectives on Mastina

1) Stop beating a dead horse. Tell me why I'm wrong, succinctly, or STFU. Nobody town wants another 10 pages of mechanical discussion.
2) Useless speculation is useless.
3) The least town question a player can ask in a game. This is literally blatant doc hunting, and people are somehow townreading him.

Maybe respond to my other post on Nico then? Instead of this weak-aggressive "im so much smarter". U cant read between the lines, so the discussion is over. Its ok.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Varsoon

Time to speedpush a wagon so we can get this stuff a little bit further along I guess

[Vecna]

Ill glady switch back to Nico, but noone is around to vote and do stuff apparently, so wooptiedoo.

Ill also completely fine with Gladiating Porkens, FB, Jingle, Nero, Wheme - roughly in that order of how much id like it.

[Vecna]

Regardless, all this talk about Mastina's ability is nonsense. From a gameplay pov it makes hardly any difference whether we get a townclear or a scum reveal since to scum both are almost as bad. They both mean theyll have to deal with Mastina. They obviously cant or dont want to. Speed this shit up to give them a clear signal they will have to, or they will simply loose. There is very little incentive to actually show preference, because theres no real consequence to voting here. Even if Mastina is scum theyll be fine to bus one of their own at a certain predetermined point in time.

Speed the shit up.

[Vecna]

Id be more concerning if people start tailoring their daily routine to JJH threats

[Vecna]

Who cares, youre either scum thatll be revealed, or you'll be towncleared. Being towncleared is awesome since you can do and say stuff and have more weight attached, and your ability is not a enormous loss if the towncleared status forces scum to NK you in due time.

[Vecna]

Is Vecna scum

Happy to see youre still boosting your postcount with wonders such as these.

[Vecna]

Oh, I thought people were voting me to try to lynch me.
See that's the problem I was having.
People don't seem to be scumhunting, but town-clear-gladiate-voting, which doesn't seem as fruitful to me.
I'm also confused because your list of people to gladiate on this page didn't mention me?

its just the universal mafia thing. Large game, with double votes, hard to get to any treshold. Youre so far down the list of proper targets, but noone is really responding to anything or trying to change my mind and lynching mastina here is stupid.

[Vecna]

Because I did not wanted to get lynched or gladiated (mostly the former though, since the gladiate was not really on my mind at all at that time).

[Vecna]

Because I did not wanted to get lynched or gladiated (mostly the former though, since the gladiate was not really on my mind at all at that time).

So you're okay with it happening to others, but not to yourself?

Noted.

Correct.

[Vecna]

Also, Skygazer can go into the pile of people that are able to obv-town, but have only done so in very small ammounts (which are at the level of fakeable). that combined with a scum-role, im not so sure.

[Vecna]

You're not limited to 3 on mine either fwiw

I'm also probably gonna stop even though mine look cooler and you're not reminding people of the deadline

Just.....dont use that crap

[Vecna]

Good effort btw Jingle, people are actually doing stuff.

Gladiating me is a terrible idea. Ill explain more about this later if its still required, but I doubt itll come to that.

HURT: Jingle , NR , Porkens

Only consider my vote on Varsoon if I somehow become a contender.

Reasons for these three choices:
NR, obviously, explained in a previous big post (which I still want your response on Jingle)
Porkens: A guess for scum, showing the scum catching workings of Mastinas ability is the best possible outcome here above all else.
Jingle: Let him prove his alignment. Confirms his loud doc visit claim. Removes my suspicion. Good for overall game state. Also have some doubts because he's failing to see the obvious, while he really should. Maybe he has and thats why he continues to push for me to be gladiated. Ramblings discontinued.

[Vecna]

HURT: Varsoon, jjh, Jingle, Porkens

See, now why would NR not want to get gladiated here while she knows everyone is extremely suspicious of her, and she will have full role access if she gets town-cleared. Suddenly the vote on Varsoon appears.

Fakeclaim a guilty.
Probably fake-claim a no result.
Change and walk back your claim three times.
Trying to avoid being towncleared while under so much scrutiny, while your role requires cooperation.

And people are somehow still voting to have Varsoon gladiated over this. I know I was guilty of it for a little while out of boredom, but c'mon.

Feels really fucking iffy, especially considering all these weird votes for me over the IC thing.

[Vecna]

Jingle, please remove the information that you gathered from posts, and only count actual hurt tags here. I want to know the actual score on Varsoon now that people have to take a stance. I want to know who is ignoring this NR thing. The varsoon number is hyper-inflated, with at least people like Porkens not being willing to take a stance and some other votes that are not actually there.

[Vecna]

there would be no reason to gladiate if she confirmed mastinas claim. the only reason nr would be scum with mastina then is if they both are.

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: NicoRobin

(this has no implication for my desires to see him gladiated, just in case JJH really is gonna do his shit)

Oh and JJH, if you do do it, im lynching you full stop. Its cute you wanna pressure Mastina and all, but useful shit is actually finally happening.

[Vecna]

HURT: Jingle, NicoRobin, Vecna
Honestly these are slots I’d want cleared up, I’m setting aside personal reads at this point because that’s not gonna happen with where my focus is at

The point of this exercise is that you share your actual personal reads with us ya scumbucket

[Vecna]

Like ive called you a she in 99/100 of my posts concerning you, and I make a mistake once and you flip out? Wtf is your problem.

[Vecna]

Ok I might be getting played good here, but whatever. Jingle's willingness is played out so well it either means he's flat town (most likely) or scum with Mastina meaning his result here is far less usefull than a potential scumflip. Its pretty clear to me were not gonna get that from gladiating Jingle here.

HEAL: Jingle

HURT: Varsoon

This should really be between NR and Varsoon. My strong preference is still for it to be NR, but im fine with either given the resistance.

This should put it at 8/8/8 I think?

[Vecna]

So my question is: Are people voting for Jingle because they want him to townflip? Because thats pretty nonsensical in the given situation. If were not lynching Mastina, we need her ability to produce a guilty. Which clearly is much more likely to happen in NR/Varsoon given that we allready know their role, and theyre still extremely resistant to getting towncleared. Might be because they also just want to find a guilty, but that really isnt the case since theyre voting Jingle without having given much reason as to why he's scum (well NR is scumreading him, but thats just because of the team with Mastina scenario she is going after).

[Vecna]

(and im actually with Jingle here that people need to step up. Lets not whine about this game continuously, lets try to make it better. There are other ways to do that besides lynching Mastina - even if the criticism there is valid).

[Vecna]

I am the almighty CORNHOLIO. Is this Nicaragua? I will take this land for my bunghole! Long live the almighty bunghole!

[Vecna]

PAY TRIBUTE TO THE ALMIGHTY BUNGHOLE AND BE REWARDED

[Vecna]

Still think it's a lousy idea to no lynch several times in a row in a game where we aren't getting any mod-confirmed clears from it.

Except we will after Mastina dies and it turns out she wasnt lying.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Firebringer

Choo-choo

[Vecna]

how you doing vecna?

Quite good

[Vecna]

So tell me, you guys really believing that was a scripted varsoon bussing theatrical performance? Because it seemed to me like it was a pissed off varsoon trying to desperately get rid of a powerfull town PR.

Dude deserves an Emmy if he is scum with Mastina here.

[Vecna]

So you wanna lynch a strong town PR?

If Alisae was here he'd be stating the open-wolfing season has started.

[Vecna]

So you wanna lynch a strong town PR?

If Alisae was here he'd be stating the open-wolfing season has started.

i don't know how often i have to say this without being a broken record:

I don't give a shit about any fucking roles or roleclaims.

Well clearly you dont think she's scum either.

[Vecna]

Nah, ima just scumread you for it and try to get you lynched.

[Vecna]

Whats your thoughts on Nero and Creature given this new info JJH?

[Vecna]

You are totally not being the cool zen-pirate-dog as portrayed in your avatar right about now fb

[Vecna]

the most likely answer: Scum started killing the clears instead because Jinglo claimed theres a doc in this game

[Vecna]

Or just like, find scum if youre town? Being anti-town just because you think its the more fun option is just gonna drag this shit out, so there really is no point in doing it.

Constantly humoring this notion of lynching Mastina, while its highly likely she is a day-cop and there are likely protectives in this game saving her, is probably the only thing still keeping scum from conceding in a game that might have had some design over-sights resulting in this scenario that is most likely near auto-win for town (if mastina is indeed town).

Fuck scum over -> win game.

[Vecna]

yo, good luck with that.

not going to happen regardless, but w/e

[Vecna]

*yawn*

[Vecna]

So good to have motivation to play this again

Why does the Varsoon death make you motivated?

Whats your thoughts on Nero and Creature given this new info JJH?

Or maybe you could explain why you are misreading me again instead of hedging like a coward.

Maybe im asking others because im actually aware I suck at reading you? So much unnecessary aggravation in this post.

[Vecna]

I actually scumread mastina

VOTE: mastina -shiro

-rh

VOTE: mememen

Damn Porkens. Why you so good at making me question myself

[Vecna]

Jingle
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna
Mastina

The MEME Men
Northsidegal
Firebringer
Nicorobin
Gamma Emerald
Invisibility
Porkens
Whemestar
Lady Angel
Nero Cain
Creature
jjh927
Aristophanes

Claim votes for EoD yesterday in your next post.

Varsoon.

Also, it's really cool how instead of not sheeping dead players, you guys are sheeping dead scum. It definitely sounds like a great idea.

VOTE: Firebringer

Wait, how did I suddenly become a townread? I probably know the answer, but I still would like to hear it from you.

[Vecna]

All right. Time to reveal my cards. mastina could be town.

VOTE: Fire

I want Firebringer out of the game for my own sanity.

You got a lot of explaining to do

UNVOTE: Firebringer

[Vecna]

Oh, btw. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep the thing under your hat for a while. It's kinda useful if scum don't know.

oh

[Vecna]

Jingle - V
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna - V
Mastina - V

The MEME Men - V
Northsidegal - V
Firebringer - M
Nicorobin - V
Gamma Emerald - FB
Invisibility
Porkens
Whemestar
Lady Angel
Nero Cain
Creature
jjh927
Aristophanes - M

We're missing 7 claims. Also, I guess Vecna should probably confirm that he did in fact vote V.

I really dont see the point of this exercise. Just feels like busywork. But sure? Its rather obvious I think.

[Vecna]

Yeah I voted Varsoon

I wanted to vote NicoRobin but there was a risk of a bunch of tools voting Mastina and Varsoon scumclaimed

Pretty much this ye

[Vecna]

Yeah, the real interesting question is how scum wouldve behaved leading upto that varsoon ability being triggered.

On the one hand, it was very easy to make yourself look good there by pushing on Varsoon, knowing that he could trigger his ability regardless where you have a chance for a sneak attack on Mastina with the entire scumteam (assuming she is indeed town). There is bound to be at least some town that wouldve voted Mastina (and claimed to have done so).

On the other hand....it really seemed like scum did not want to use it yet, and did not have a proper plan set up. Maybe they were hoping the gladiate would go onto jingle so Varsoon could use it to force a lynch on Mastina? But that would mean putting pressure to get Varsoon gladiated there was really stupid (which is what Porkens and Meme Men were doing effectively).

[Vecna]

Kinda annoying Wheme did not confirm who he voted for last night.

WHEMESTAR, WHOM DID YOU VOTE FOR LAST DAY DURING VARSOON's ABILITY?

[Vecna]

Also, Jingle - your numbers are likely to be even more positive, given a certain someone's last post and the fact you didnt add varsoon himself yet.

[Vecna]

Also, this setup could potentially feature 6 scum, which would also have quite some implications given that vote. But I guess that shouldnt be taken into consideration too much.

[Vecna]

I still do not understand the purpose of claiming our votes during paranoia. Could someone explain this theory?

Itll be explained, but wheme should claim his vote first (even though it likely was Mastina, given that he was calling for her death before it was activated)

[Vecna]

The real takeaway is that:
{Creature, Firebringer, Aristophanes, Vizzy, Nero, Gamma Emerald, Whemestar} contains at least 2 scum
{Jingle, JJH, NicoRobin, Meme Men, Porkens, NSG, Lady Angel} contains at most 2 scum

Granted that Mastina is town and Wheme voted for Mastina

[Vecna]

The real question is about the double voters im guessing. Ive forgotten who they are at this point, but there were some people doing that nonsense I believe?

[Vecna]

Meme Men, could both the Sora and Shiro head vote during the paranoia thing? Or was it a singular vote?

[Vecna]

We dont need to pretend that youre exhibiting scummy behaviour doggo

[Vecna]

-Am town
-Have no night action
-By extension no gun
-Role PM says evil mastermind I guess but it's written in green

Interesting reaction lol. My first assumption was that it was porkens bullshitting, but you straight away jump to this.

Whats your flavour?

[Vecna]

Why did you vote Varsoon instead of mastina? Why are you voting mastina now?

a) he has been our consensus scumread through the entire game and he basically claimed scum with his action (denying the gladiate)
b) I'm annoyed at her taking years to gladiate. She acts as though it's a foregone conclusion that it will succeed, when if it fails, town will need time to discuss. So her argument that "it's best to use all the daycycle" is absurd.

here is the speed I would like this game to go:


here is mastina speed:


-rh

I am in love with this post

[Vecna]

I read everything

I don’t get the claiming votes theory but I can claim mine if you want

So you read everything..........but then you missed all of these?

Spoiler:

Kinda annoying Wheme did not confirm who he voted for last night.

WHEMESTAR, WHOM DID YOU VOTE FOR LAST DAY DURING VARSOON's ABILITY?

I still do not understand the purpose of claiming our votes during paranoia. Could someone explain this theory?

Itll be explained, but wheme should claim his vote first (even though it likely was Mastina, given that he was calling for her death before it was activated)

Jingle - V
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna - V
Mastina - V
Gamma Emerald - FB

Nicorobin - V
The MEME Men - V
Nero Cain - NSG
Porkens - V?
Creature - M
Firebringer - M
Invisibility - NR
Aristophanes - M
Whemestar -
Northsidegal - V
jjh927 - V
Lady Angel - V

Okay, so the reason this is important, is because as people flip we can put things together.

Varsoon - (10)

Jingle, Vecna, Mastina,

NicoRobin, Meme Men, Porkens, NSG, JJ, Lady Angel,

Chickadee

Mastina - (3) Creature, Firebringer, Aristophanes
Nico - (1) Vizzy
NSG - (1) Nero
Gamma - (1) FB
Didn't vote- Adalbert Steiner, Skygazer

5 Scum, none of which would have voted for Varsoon. All of which had the opportunity to vote anonymously, and thus would have chosen whoever was most likely to be a viable mislynch. If mastina is town, that's mastina. That means, at most, the Varsoon wagon can have had 3 people claiming to be on it as scum, mathematically. Additionally, people who weren't voting Varsoon, or who were voting mastina, etc. can be asked to justify their votes.

You may have noted that Chick is presumed to be on the Varsoon wagon. That's because that is the possibility that gives scum the least opportunity to manipulate the information later.

Skygazer and Adalbert on the other hand were both pending replacement, so neither could have voted.

Who did you vote yesterday.

No, not role claims.

Claims of who you voted for in paranoia.

Jingle - V
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna - V
Mastina - V
Gamma Emerald - FB

Nicorobin - V
The MEME Men - V
Nero Cain - NSG
Porkens - V?
Creature - M
Firebringer - M
Invisibility - NR
Aristophanes - M
Whemestar -
Northsidegal - V
jjh927 - V
Lady Angel -

This is roughly reads order.

Dead Men What Can't Tell Tales:

Varsoon
Chick
Skygazer

I need confirmation from Porkens and claims from Wheme and LA before I can explain why this is useful.

And I stopped after finding these, but there are many more.

ok then

VOTE: Whemestar

[Vecna]

HURT: Gamma Emerald, Whemestar, Nero Cain, Firebringer, Creature

[Vecna]

Im also sort of surprised we didnt hear anything else from our loud doctor.

[Vecna]

The only rationale for lynching Mastina here is to kill the boredom (not like itll solve it)......and its even becoming tempting again just to move this slog along.

[Vecna]

Anyways, all the <redacted> that are voting Mastina right now, how about you instead vote for the gladiate target? After the gladiate you can still lynch her. Even though I love the idea of pressuring her to hurry up, it clearly hasnt worked very well so far.

Get a target to a decent range, if she refuses to gladiate it in a swift manner, then you can flashlynch her. For now just pretend to actually be town, and find a target for that stupid ability.

[Vecna]

Because regardless of what allignment you believe her to be, not using the gladiate first is idiotic.

[Vecna]

Also, the fact im still alive makes me really lean towards Mastina being scum, or scum being full of people like Whemestar that have no clue what is even going on in this game.

[Vecna]

And since im pretty bored by now, and totally do not care about keeping Mastina alive for much longer:

My day1 post restriction (if succesfully completed) gave me 3 shots of jailkeep. The flavour, is obviously, that Beavis breaks into their house and steals their toiletpaper, which incidentally locks them in their toilet. Yes, I do in fact need all of your TP for my bunghole.

For those paying attention, these were used on Kuroi/Mastina/Mastina during the last few nights.

Im like 99% certain that the jailkeep on N2 saved mastina, or roleblocked her from doing the kill. I have no idea why she announced again today that I visited her, did not see much town logic in it, but whatever.

I have no idea whatsoever why I wasnt killed last night. Any scum paying attention, that noticed me visiting Mastina, then talking about jailkeeping on Mastina, then being confused how Nico couldv gotten anything there, then noticing that a jailkeep would in fact not mess with her result.......Yeah I dno.

This is also why I flat-out do not believe that a LOUD JAILKEEPER (yes, duh, that is what I was) can also exist with a town LOUD DOCTOR and a town whatever-the-fuck you call Mastina's abomination of a role or fakeclaim.

So figure it out for me will you? Either Jingle has a scumclaim in his inbox, Mastina is scum with a fancy fake-claim or RC really did design the most unbalanced setup ever. Or im fake-claiming, which ofcourse is also highly possible, but not this time.

Scum, you can stop trying to get Mastina lynched now. You can likely just kill her tonight. Or maybe she needs rope. I really dno. Can I die tonight? Please?

[Vecna]

Now im sure you also understand why gladiating me, was a really really bad idea.

[Vecna]

Im not feeling you this game Creature. Having a guilty on Mastina, then believing Wheme is frozen scum alongside it.....just doesnt mash at all for me, and just makes me think youre not actually reading the game and spewing genuine thoughts on what is happening.

[Vecna]

Just trying to ride that wave of "oh creature is posting, must be town".

The disconnect is real

[Vecna]

If I had more jailkeeps id definitately not let your weird arguments (that make no sense whatsoever) influence my decisions NR.

A town redirector that is targetting you? What?

Mastina visiting someone that would make her appear scummy while youre announcing that you'll be tracking her? What?

Scum letting Mastina do the kill after its become apparent that I jailkept her twice in a row? What?

I really have no idea what youre expecting here, but the sense you're making can only be expressed in the number zero

[Vecna]

Besides, the way its going now, Mastina probably wont live through the day (regardless of protestations to the intellect in said decisions).

[Vecna]

Yeah, this seems rather...unusual. Exciting. Mystery.

Someone call in shaggy and scooby-doo

[Vecna]

Is it really so important it keep it secretive and vague? Because the way youre claiming it, we really cannot act on it in any reasonable way.

It just sounds super-scummy to try and get the lynch through by poking the doubters, without committing to you being scum if she does flip town.

[Vecna]

Also, noone even rethinking any part of their thought process with the fact that Mastina was jailkept on N2? Kinda odd there was no discussion whatsoever, except for Jingle attributing the claim to Nero with a misquote

[Vecna]

What was mastina's claim again?

Loyal gladiator (aka, her gladiate will fail if targeting someone of a different faction than hers).

[Vecna]

I was expecting a troll role when I submitted my picks, and hoh boy did RC not disappoint.

I am Ginngie, Hated Loyal Gladiator

.
Outside of lylo/mylo (which is purely by the numbers, per the role wording), I take one less vote to lynch.
I can gladiate anyone by claiming a guilty on them, but if they're not town-aligned, it'll fail.

I can maybe, MAYBE use this as a conditional cop, IF we can no-lynch after a gladiate (I need to ask RC about this), but if not, yeahhhhh...

Oh and also hated. So yeah, be careful with these votes, no L-1 shenanigans, pretending to not be aware.

[Vecna]

Obviously it was a mixed up quote with you pasting it into scum chat.

Busted. Scumslip.

[Vecna]

Obviously it was a mixed up quote with you pasting it into scum chat.

Busted. Scumslip.

How did you know my access to the scumchat thread is why I might need to be replaced?

Yes Nero....that is suspicious as fuck

[Vecna]

mastina's flavor isn't Ginngie

VOTE: mastina

Now were talking

[Vecna]

She's not Ginngie, so she should have some fitting flavor for her mafia gladiator role

To lock out the possibility of a redirector, simply claim your result. Then people will tell you if you got their flavour (by redirection or w/e).

[Vecna]

HurtCount 4.4:

Ineligible Players:

Adalbert:
Mastina: (4) Firebringer, Creature, Meme Men, Aristophanes

Eligible Players

Nicorobin: (6) Invisibility, JJH, Meme Men, Jingle, Lady Angel,

jjh

Firebringer: (5) Vecna, Lady Angel, Mastina, Meme Men, Vecna
Creature: (5) Meme Men, Vecna, Adalbert Steiner, Jingle, jjh
Whemestar: (4) Meme Men, Vecna, Creature, Jingle
Nero Cain: (3) Meme Men, Vecna, Shoshin
Northsidegal: (2) Nero Cain, Meme Men
Aristophanes: (2) NSG, Meme Men, jjh
jjh927: (2) Porkens, Meme Men
Gamma Emerald: (2) Meme Men, Vecna
Shoshin: (2) Meme Men, Jingle
Jingle: (1) Meme Men
Vecna: (1) Meme Men
Lady Angel: (1) Meme Men
The MEME Men: (1) Meme Men
Porkens: (1) Meme Men

Invisibility

: (1) Meme Men

With 18 alive, 10 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

FB has two of my votes and NR has none of my votes. Not sure if I indicated NR before, but NR is a fine gladiate target.

[Vecna]

The use of his ability there was a literal scumclaim which I could go into more detail on but see no reason to

Please go into detail. Your explanation for voting Varsoon over Nico still doesn't make sense to me.

VOTE: jjh

It makes complete sense for anyone that was there at the time. Not that that in itself is AI, but it was very obvious that it was between Mastina and Varsoon at the time.

[Vecna]

I have no idea why she announced again today that I visited her, did not see much town logic in it, but whatever.

My reasoning was because you needed to know you succeeded. Yesterday, because RC had a delay in telling me, and I had a further delay in telling you, it was almost disastrous, because we were going down a wrong train of thinking, thinking that you had failed, when you hadn't.

If I didn't claim, wouldn't you be wondering why I wasn't mentioning it? Wouldn't you think to ask RC, and if he confirmed, wonder if your action failed?

Oh, guess it wasnt clear that I was trying to trap NR then. Which she kinda felt for, stating she got a no result on you, probably under the assumption my claims would let her get away with it (check out the order of events here, its pretty interesting id say). I never really was in doubt whether my action succeeded on you. I was pretending the mod told me my action failed.

[Vecna]

this game has some of the worst mechanics i have ever seen in a mafia game.

like next to undertale mafia actually where there was zero scum.

Can we please just insta-gladiate this slot? How is this not a scum-claim fed up with Mastina's role? Just like the varsoon anger.

Really, we do not need to have this dragged out much longer, do we?

[Vecna]

I wanna see if mastina will change her flavorclaim or argue there's a redirector

Nope!
Because I know my fucking flavor.
I am Ginngie.
You are barking up the absolute worst tree possible because there are ZERO worlds where you win this fucking fight.
Because I can pretty definitively prove that was not only my pick, but also the role I got. The evidence is pretty conclusive and stupendously self-evident. It's right there in your face.

Plus I don't lie about flavor, ever.
I never lie about flavor as town because I never have any reason to tell that sort of lie. There's never been a game where I've seen reason to need to lie about my flavor as town, because simply put I've never had a flavor that I'd want to lie about.

I never lie about flavor as scum because I have EVERY reason to tell the truth about flavor, short of flavor being actually alignment-indicative.
Sure, yeah, if you're running a game where the Crew of Serenity is all the good guys and their enemies are all the bad guys, flavor becomes alignment-indicative (I abandoned ship on that review for good reason ), but in any competently designed game where flavor is alignment-indicative the nontown have safeclaims for flavor. In a game like this one though, role is done separately from flavor.

I don't know when exactly alignments are rolled in a UPick, but the process isn't "Oh hey this player picked exclusively bad people, therefore, they are scum"; it is more along the lines of "Oh this player rolled town/scum, now with that flavor I'm going to design this to give them powers for that alignment" (more or less).

There is never a scenario where I ever lie about my flavor and you fucking know it.

I am Ginngie because that is literally one of the only two roles I would pick.
And good luck trying to fit my role into the other one I'd pick.

So, then INSTA-GLADIATE creature, if he's confirmed to be lying to you? Show us that your role produces guilties in the claimed way, and all this whine about your slot will go away. People will settle into hunting down the remaining scum tomorrow.

We dont need a democratic process if you know he's lying. Your role gives you that power. Fuck what we agreed before, people have changed their mind and appreciate some speed.

[Vecna]

Okay, I've got the result that my target has:
- 4 As in role
- 1 A in flavor

Oh, I suddenly believe creature 100%

[Vecna]

LoyAl hAted glAdiAtor - that fits

[Vecna]

how do you know he hasnt?

[Vecna]

tundunsun

[Vecna]

lets speedlynch the guys that need replacing? fb is scum regardless.

[Vecna]

scum probably complaining like mad about op role design, while it shouldve been super obv who was keeping mastina alive.

[Vecna]

just a generic question for due dilligence for those who have played with a scum mastina before. is she even remotely capable of coming up with plans like the varsoon charade to make her look super good, and then have a scum creature pretend to have this role and make this claim in the way he did?

itd require sich creative thinking.....but that is pretty much what some people must be tjinking.....

[Vecna]

FB or NR gkadiate is in order. preferably fb so we can just destroy the slot and require a replacement less.

Or, y'know, scum can jist concede instead of mass replace out.

[Vecna]

yeah, you know, or proof that scum tried to kill her and failed.....resulting in the realization they have to lynch her to get rid of her.

[Vecna]

yeah, you know, or proof that scum tried to kill her and failed.....resulting in the realization they have to lynch her to get rid of her.

So what makes that possibility more likely? If you haven't noticed, I am the only one who wants to get her lynched, because I know what she is capable of when/if she is scum. No one else is trying to lynch her, at least not as vocally.

Lol, this is the biggest joke of all terrible statements you have made this game. Even in the offchance she does turn out to be scum that has pushed most of her teammates to orchestrate the perfect cover, you need to learn to form rational arguments.

[Vecna]

part of me really feels like Creature and Fire wouldn't double down so hard. I mean they just saw their buddy Varsoon get lynched for it. Its real ballsy and WIFOM.

3) Firebringer Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)
11) Invisibility
13) Whemestar
20) Creature

lol if this is the scum team.

I think you missed a bunch of creature's recent posts?

[Vecna]

What makes all of you think think that Varsoon is incapable of bussing?

It goes far beyond bussing, it involves a level of planning and hollywooding/acting that is extensively well prepared. Not saying its impossible, just that it is extremely risky in a role-madness game.

[Vecna]

I think you missed a bunch of creature's recent posts?

the whole "Creature is posting so Creature is town" is stale old meta. Do you mean his "guilty" on Mastina?

No I mean the part that came after the guilty, namely him realizing it wasnt actually a guilty, but more likely a confirmation that Mastina is telling the truth. Strange you'd miss that

[Vecna]

Why is that JJH?

[Vecna]

Also, still would be interested in Creature's other results. Just getting/sharing one on Mastina seems....insufficient.

[Vecna]

The way the naming and all that works, I strongly doubt it. It does help us figure out whether you were bullshitting or not though.

[Vecna]

(also, im just completely fine with modkilling whoever replaces out at this point, instead of calling the game).

[Vecna]

Yeah actually, I withdraw my earlier statement. Just call this game. Pretty much done with this website at this rate.

[Vecna]

Also, firebringer, wtf are you doing. Either youre replacing out, or youre not.

[Vecna]

Here's a

tinfoil

The reaming scum are

JJ, NSG, Mastina

and

Jingle.

ITT Mastina is just a normal gladiator (no loyal modifier) with the option to no lynch. The no lynches are helping the scum team and both JJ and Jingle are fighting tooth and nail to A.( Keep Mastina alive and B.( keep on no lynching. Also, remember that Mastina was hard town reading Gingie b/c she claims she can "read her" Despite hard town reading Mastina, Jingle plans on lynching her. (planned late bus excuse)

This also means that the Varsoon lynch was also a planned bus to make Mastina and NSG look better

Good rule of thumb for me is if NSG hasn't obv-towned by D4, it's scum.

I think you need to ask NR whether this isnt infringing on her pattern.

[Vecna]

Also, still failing to take creature into account Nero. If Mastina is scum, its pretty much confirmed that creature is scum along with her (unless there is some other weird reason that her role has all those A's that match up exactly with what she claimed).

The more realistic scenario, is that the scum team is Firebringer, plus a bunch of his pals that are now jumping onto invisibility. Top contenders being you yourself and Meme man (whose reads are also either very right or very scum).

[Vecna]

Anyways, im probably biased in how im viewing the game because of my jailkeeping knowledge. I had the same level of paranoia before N2.

[Vecna]

We still need a gladiate on Firebringer if the slot is out of the modkill dangerzone.

[Vecna]

But im sure you get what I mean.....There was quite the sudden exodus from Firebringer onto invis, while both were in the same boat more or less. It was pretty odd.

[Vecna]

i am going to full claim right now because 1) i haven't even used my role all game 2) to give scum more information because i am pro scum

i am maid cafe barrista
i am a temporary neighborizer. I need to pick someone at end of day and then they come to my "cafe". this has only happened once in the game when beeboy/maria i guess invited jjh. (probably the stupid reason he tr me earlier)
Everyone i neighbourize will be able to choose to take limited watcher, tracker, or voyeur actions until all have been taken, then the availability resets. You will perform these actions, but not receive the results: your customer will receive the results directly.

i am sided with the town.

All of these really weird roleclaims that would interact so oddly with a jailkeeper....

[Vecna]

Also, you have that role, and then you just decide/claim to not use it? Super uncool

[Vecna]

So firebringer, whose actually scum this game? FYPOV this game should be decently solvable at this game......the rest of us still have to struggle past your weird, incredibly anti town slot, but you dont have that problem.

[Vecna]

at this point in the game*

[Vecna]

and at this moment i only care about solving this game in the sense of:
why are you people not on the side of lets cancel this game?

i think if anyone should want to cancel this game its any scum player who is sick of the game mechanics (which many of you say is me). and the environment it has caused and how anti fun it has all been (which should be any non masochist town player).

I am going to continue framing this game as a push to cancel it.
I am not here to solve the game for a sense of winning a game. I am here to avoid the uneeded frustration for all involved.
Which unfortunately is causing us all to have more uneeded frustration.

So where is everyone on the vote?

Why should we really continue the game?
So far no one has disagreed with me that the game is not fun.
Many people in this game have been anguishing and pushing themselves just to post and most aren't engaged in the game to begin with to justify them even posting to begin with.

VOTE TO CANCEL!

The reason people are frustrated are just 3 things:
-People being anti-town and whiny as fuck
-People being inactive and replacing out all the time
-Mastina being way slower than people would like, and taking the dumb stance of "you all need to agree on a lynch, but I DGAFF that you all want me to be faster, I only care about democratic nonsense when it fits my views".

Now, you yourself were responsible for two out of three. So instead of spamming for a cancel, try to make it better instead?

[Vecna]

Its not like its hard to point at a bunch of other people that also want Mastina dead and name them your likely co-conspirators. Or point at a bunch of other people that are in on the "bus mastina to make the rest look good"-plan

[Vecna]

Jingle, youre gonna tell us about that loud doctor now.

[Vecna]

Because either you or JJH was covering for the Mastina kill getting jailkept on N2.

[Vecna]

Also, im assuming the way Mastina's role is described that we can rule out a 3rd party.

[Vecna]

Read it, the disloyal description of the gladiate.

[Vecna]

Except from the scum pov it couldve also been a doc-save (depending on whom the target was) or a roleblock on Mastina.

[Vecna]

Vecna who have you been targeting at night?

Ive already claimed this. If a town stopped the kill during this night, it wasnt me.

[Vecna]

N1 jailkeep on Kuroi slot, N2 and N3 on Mastina

[Vecna]

And yes, you can clearly see that my view on whether to lynch Mastina or not drastically changed after N2. I figured scum would have had to be pretty dumb to let Mastina do their kill, but seeing how her role worked, letting her slot take all the risks makes a bit more sense.

[Vecna]

Also, Im afraid I have to feel that there is a very decent likelyhood that scum did in fact try to make NR look really good by bussing Mastina hard. Either that, or scum really went full-out to make it look that way (although NR herself sure helped them a LOT then).

[Vecna]

Why did your view on Mastina change on after n2?

Because my jailkeep on her coincided with the no kill? Followed by a massive tunnel on the slot? I interpreted it as most likely scum trying to desperately get rid of her slot. To which degree this still holds, and how many people were actually bussing the liability-role remains yet to be seen. Not sure whether Mastina would want to go all in on trying to make her teammates look good, because with that role that play would be rather obvious.

[Vecna]

Vecna who are your top 5 reads, of either alignment?

-rh

Ill let you know when I do.

im highly suspicious of NR and Porkens (although they sure have started the bussing early again today if this is a thing). I guess its hard to not look at JJH and Jingle and suspect there is at least one scum in there.

My radar is pretty busted right now, but im quite sure that most of the stuff that has happened so far was pre-planned to some degree by scum, so id expect their members to be decently positioned right now. Or maybe not.

[Vecna]

Why did your view on Mastina change on after n2?

Because my jailkeep on her coincided with the no kill? Followed by a massive tunnel on the slot? I interpreted it as most likely scum trying to desperately get rid of her slot. To which degree this still holds, and how many people were actually bussing the liability-role remains yet to be seen. Not sure whether Mastina would want to go all in on trying to make her teammates look good, because with that role that play would be rather obvious.

Why dd you think it was more likely that you blocked the shot instead of saving Mastina from a NK and then watching scum try to get her lynched? Surely town would more likely to think the latter.

That is exactly what im saying? Unless im wrongly interpreting this mess of a sentence.

[Vecna]

NR and Porkens are almost certainly not scum together.

From everyone else's PoV, they should only be able to be scum together with me.

All scum have been hyper-bussing eachother so far. Whats to say Mastina didnt have her entire team in her highest scumreads?

[Vecna]

NR and Porkens are almost certainly not scum together.

From everyone else's PoV, they should only be able to be scum together with me.

All scum have been hyper-bussing eachother so far. Whats to say Mastina didnt have her entire team in her highest scumreads?

? Not sure what that has to do with what I said.

NR provably targeted Porkens N1.
NR presumably targeted mastina N2.
NR targeted me N3.

All of us corroborated the use of the role. The mastina event was fucked up from the start, but I very seriously doubt that scum gave up their rolecop for 2 consecutive nights in a UPick in order to distance.

I swear theres at least two semi-scumslips in this post

Also, you would say that as scum, duh.

[Vecna]

i think nico is probably town.
jjh get of that.

scum are likely lady angel and porkens.

Scapegoat, or too obvious scum. im 50/50'ing it again

[Vecna]

Note to self: Meme and GE are definitely not scum together

[Vecna]

In what way? The rolecop vs tracker/watcher nonsense you mean?

[Vecna]

I will take that as an explicit denial of being third party.



Dear unknown friend, thank you for fixing our pinball machine

Attention, town.

NicoRobin and NorthSideGal are not aligned with each other.

-rh

Also, I wanna ask so many questions, but I probably shouldnt. Interesting claim though.

[Vecna]

"

N1 jailkeep on Kuroi slot, N2 and N3 on Mastina

"

Since the thread states it's d4 and we just lynched mastina the day before - this is highly, highly suspect from Vecna.

-LH

Yes, RC not updating shit really casts a lot of doubt on me.

(Its D5)

[Vecna]

NicoRobin and NorthSideGal are not aligned with each other.

oh man, the paranoia of loosing to a scum that fake claimed parity cop and then having someone that was in that game claim parity cop.

If anything, your reaction to that should be more evidence to others that you're town.
-------

Vizzy flip

no need, rc said he'll modkill that slot .... isn't that right, RC??

Okay, so what was your plan for the point where mastina would have tried to use her charisma and convince everyone not to lynch her?

I want to point out that no matter how charismatic mastina comes across, she's not a50 or bbt level of charisma. So she would have been lynched anyway, which finally did happen.

-LH

She actively WANTED to be lynched here. Scum was counting on Varsoon's ability to lynch Mastina if it came down to it. Mastina was probably stalling every dayphase just to piss everybody off enough to give her partner credit for her death. Her role on a leash was extremely anti-scum. I have no idea if there was any plan for a payoff somehow, but id imagine large parts of any potential plan went up in flames.

[Vecna]

The only thing we should conclude is that we really shouldnt look much at the interactions that Varsoon and Mastina had with people. There really is no predicting on whom they decided on was going to to bus or buddy their teammates. If Mastina has a role that has to die, you can count on her trying to setup her teammates in a good way though.

Noone really is looking really good atm though.

[Vecna]

Noone really is looking really good atm though.

Specially you

Youre just not paying attention

[Vecna]

"

N1 jailkeep on Kuroi slot, N2 and N3 on Mastina

"

Since the thread states it's d4 and we just lynched mastina the day before - this is highly, highly suspect from Vecna.

-LH

Yes, RC not updating shit really casts a lot of doubt on me.

(Its D5)

RC can you update that , thanks. Who'd you jail on n4?

The only thing we should conclude is that we really shouldnt look much at the interactions that Varsoon and Mastina had with people. There really is no predicting on whom they decided on was going to to bus or buddy their teammates. If Mastina has a role that has to die, you can count on her trying to setup her teammates in a good way though.

Noone really is looking really good atm though.

Really. What are your stances on nico & nsg?

-LH

Like I stated before, fulfilling my post restriction D1 only gave me three uses

[Vecna]

"

N1 jailkeep on Kuroi slot, N2 and N3 on Mastina

"

Since the thread states it's d4 and we just lynched mastina the day before - this is highly, highly suspect from Vecna.

-LH

Yes, RC not updating shit really casts a lot of doubt on me.

(Its D5)

RC can you update that , thanks. Who'd you jail on n4?

The only thing we should conclude is that we really shouldnt look much at the interactions that Varsoon and Mastina had with people. There really is no predicting on whom they decided on was going to to bus or buddy their teammates. If Mastina has a role that has to die, you can count on her trying to setup her teammates in a good way though.

Noone really is looking really good atm though.

Really. What are your stances on nico & nsg?

-LH

My stance on NSG is that she's been extremely bland and I dont really remember anything she's done this game or any stance she has taken. Ive seen her do that as town before though, but my read is completely null on the slot.
Ive already stated my issues with the NR slot a lot of times. Her read progression has felt extremely artificial. The way she went about her "guilty" on mastina, only to then backtrack when I claimed noone couldve gotten such a result just looked like a bus for cred gone wrong. Regardless, I still have some doubts, but most of that is just ego in that I do not want to give Mastina the satisfaction of believing she somehow tricked us into lynching NR if she somehow is town in this mess.

[Vecna]

So Mr parity cop, why is there only 1 result? And how come you were unaware that there have been 4 nights so far?

[Vecna]

Also, why didnt you decide to include one of the townclears in your ability usage for a full-on cop effect?

[Vecna]

i don't know, i think i need more to be convinced. sell me on it?

Why would you be asking scum (FYPOV) to sell you on an idea? Or do you think Meme is lying?

[Vecna]

So Mr parity cop, why is there only 1 result? And how come you were unaware that there have been 4 nights so far?

Our ability only became available after someone fixed our pinball machine

we chose NSG+Nico because having a "same alignment" on both had the potential of giving us a second guilty if we flipped the first, this way we have to settle for a townclear after we flip red

-rh

Right, the pinball machine thing

[Vecna]

Pork's strong town because I just played with him as scum and this is NOT his scum game. Not even close. As scum, he's blatantly pro-scum. He doesn't bus. He defends his partners blatantly and pushes lynches on town blatantly. He doesn't seem to care enough about the game as either alignment to actually try hiding his alignment as scum. He's also sort of trollish enough that he can actually get away with this as scum. But trust me, Pork is town. And anyone else who was in that recent scum game of Pork's (Gamma, NSG, Creature) can speak to this as well. If any of those three aren't townreading Pork (something to check), then I'd say there's a problem with one of those three before I ever suspect Pork here.

As for Lady Angel, I think her play around Mastina and analysis of the wagon afterwards feels very townie. I didn't like her play earlier in the game, but there's actually a lot of depth to her thought process that I don't think is easy for scum to fake. I don't know her that well, but my impression is that she wouldn't be strong enough to fake this level of thought as scum. I could be wrong on her, though. My weakest townread by far.

I strongly disagree with all reasoning provided here on Porkens btw, and in -my- last scumgame with Porkens he played exactly as how he has been playing this game.

Check the autobots vs Dinobots game. Im surprised Creature hasnt been bringing this up. But then again, this creature role just feels all kinds of made up, in a scum strategy kind of way.

[Vecna]

What are your reads on the other players?

i pretty much agree with all ur other townreads.

kind of think ari is scum here also. he keeps doing his cheerful happy face but i think he is just trying his best to keep it what he thinks is natural which makes it look awkward.

Also sort of agree on this. This game has way too many scummy slots.

[Vecna]

I also think the majority of scum bussed Mastina, since they needed her out of the game to have any fighting chance at winning this. Most the players who weren't voting Mastina are likely town.

Like, the gladiate was resolved in such a fast manner that I really wouldnt stoop so dumb as try to do vote analysis on it in such a manner.

Id say im pretty damn active this game, but I wasnt around for any of it.

[Vecna]

I'd lynch Meme before I lynched NSG.

Can you explain this strong read on NSG some more?

[Vecna]

I'm a protective role, actually. A bodyguard.

And this matters how?

I dunno if it matters. But upon reflection, I think the right play as bodyguard is to claim it. Because I think it messes with scum's night actions in a way that benefits town.

Theres apparently a roleblocker out there though.

I feel like im pretty damn behind on all the claims by now. There is such a shitton of stuff floating around there.

Jingle, can you do some more busywork, and put all these claims in a nice thingy maybe?

[Vecna]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

I think you are vastly underestimating that role that Varsoon had when used properly.

[Vecna]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

For your point on the protectives, dont forget all of them have drawbacks.

My role was a trap that was supposed to be lynched on D1 (and almost was).

The bodyguard doesnt actually save a town from dying since it dies itself

The loud babysitter allows scum to do a double kill if it ever visits scum (or have the weird outcome of killing themselves along with the babysitter).

But ill happily agree we shouldnt automatically assume theyre all town.

[Vecna]

I mean, maybe. But not really. We already have two mechanical semi-clears and we wanted to lynch in {NSG, Nico} anyway. So {Same alignment} would have given us two guilties over one (although not 'confirmed guilty'), so the risk of getting {unaligned} and having to do some sorting seemed fine if we were wrong on one of the two. In retrospect, we might have played suboptimally, but I can't say I'm 100% sure I would actually have done it differently even now

-rh

The question is a trap, your play was obviously optimal.

[Vecna]

Gamma, do you have experience with NSG? I have heard the conventional wisdom is that if she is trying she is town and if she is not she is scum; do you feel like she has been trying over this game, and do you think that conventional wisdom is accurate for her?

-RH

This conventional wisdom is bullcrap, she didnt really do much the last two games I was in with her, and she flipped town in both as well.

I dont really think NSG is the type of player that will ever be easy to read, no real meta to use and her play always seems eerily similar (to me).

[Vecna]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

For your point on the protectives, dont forget all of them have drawbacks.

My role was a trap that was supposed to be lynched on D1 (and almost was).

The bodyguard doesnt actually save a town from dying since it dies itself

The loud babysitter

allows scum to do a double kill if it ever visits scum

(or have the weird outcome of killing themselves along with the babysitter).

But ill happily agree we shouldnt automatically assume theyre all town.

Huh???
It looks like you mixed up something but the stuff in parentheses says otherwise. Wtf is the meaning of the bolded?

If scum nightkills the babysitter, it kills both the babysitter and the baby. If the babysitter ever visits scum, due to the loud modifier, the scum can kill her + her baby the next night.

[Vecna]

Because it allows you to resolve the playerlist at double the speed Gamma. Good ability usage + good followup allows you to both get a guilty and an inno.

The slots that are usually targetted by it were potential mislynches already, so getting double the information is a lot better. Having to commit to a lynch there doesnt matter as much, as long as you get it right.

Besides, there will usually be more information to combine it with.

The only doubt I have about optimal play here was whether it shouldve been claimed already. I have no idea why Meme thinks he's a likely kill when theres two townclears, a jailkeeper and whatnot claimed. Especially since he apparently wasnt even aware that I claimed to have ran out of uses. Also, roleblocker. Getting only 1 usage out of a skill such as that is such a terrible shame.

[Vecna]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

For your point on the protectives, dont forget all of them have drawbacks.

My role was a trap that was supposed to be lynched on D1 (and almost was).

The bodyguard doesnt actually save a town from dying since it dies itself

The loud babysitter

allows scum to do a double kill if it ever visits scum

(or have the weird outcome of killing themselves along with the babysitter).

But ill happily agree we shouldnt automatically assume theyre all town.

Huh???
It looks like you mixed up something but the stuff in parentheses says otherwise. Wtf is the meaning of the bolded?

If scum nightkills the babysitter, it kills both the babysitter and the baby. If the babysitter ever visits scum, due to the loud modifier, the scum can kill her + her baby the next night.

That’s not bad thinking, but it’s wrong. Why would Jingle play around it like he did if the person who did it was outright stated? I assume that assumption of the babysitter’s exact ID being revealed is influencing your analysis.

I didnt really analyze anything, I just stated that the thought of "town cannot have three protectives" -might potentially be wrong-, since all three roles aren't unconditional protection.

Regardless, that babysitter targetting Jingle and NR (thats what the claims were right?) already shows that.....it might not even exist or just be scum.

[Vecna]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

For your point on the protectives, dont forget all of them have drawbacks.

My role was a trap that was supposed to be lynched on D1 (and almost was).

The bodyguard doesnt actually save a town from dying since it dies itself

The loud babysitter

allows scum to do a double kill if it ever visits scum

(or have the weird outcome of killing themselves along with the babysitter).

But ill happily agree we shouldnt automatically assume theyre all town.

Huh???
It looks like you mixed up something but the stuff in parentheses says otherwise. Wtf is the meaning of the bolded?

If scum nightkills the babysitter, it kills both the babysitter and the baby. If the babysitter ever visits scum, due to the loud modifier, the scum can kill her + her baby the next night.

That’s not bad thinking, but it’s wrong. Why would Jingle play around it like he did if the person who did it was outright stated? I assume that assumption of the babysitter’s exact ID being revealed is influencing your analysis.

I didnt really analyze anything, I just stated that the thought of "town cannot have three protectives" -might potentially be wrong-, since all three roles aren't unconditional protection.

Regardless, that babysitter targetting Jingle and NR (thats what the claims were right?) already shows that.....it might not even exist or just be scum.

Why do you think those targets imply that?

Those targets only make sense really if (censored) is the babysitter and just wanted those people to die in the offchance he was killed that night. Taking that risk to reveal yourself on people you want to die is really stupid though.

Just ask yourself; was scum EVER going to kill Jingle or NR with townclears aplenty? Ofcourse not

[Vecna]

Gamma Emerald, I do not approve of your new avatar

[Vecna]

Its like staring at me and mocking me

[Vecna]

Are you scum this game GE? Youre feeling so weird