Limbo l Victory!

[Kokichi Oma]

Yeah still think Alonzo is best lynch

[Alonzo]

He has replaced out of 2 games as scum and 0 games as town

As scum, he makes weird bullshit votes and then sits on them for weeks at a time

As town, he does weird reaction tests and then responds quickly to those reaction tests

Based on meta, Manatee is incredibly likely to flip scum. Honestly it's the strongest meta-based case in the entire game atm

manatee scum meta

Honestly this should be reason enough to lynch Manatee, especially since his play this day phase wasn't all that town motivated, but let's pretend this doesn't actually exist and shift through his ISO.

This is a terrible read, but my arguement is that I have zero replace ins to scum slots. As Manatee isn't here and I am, my meta will trump manatees for the remainder of the game.
With foundations this poor what can the rest of this arguement be based on??

why would VT or Toxic Goo claim?

Pointless question, I've talked about this before.

How is being unsure of the motivations for claim in the early game a scumtell? not every payer has the same experience with complex setups. Noob questions are not scummy, I dont care how hard you twist it.

^ Scummy

VOTE: Dunnstral

Naked vote, which is not bad in and of itself but I didn't like his positioning on the wagon either.

Again this is a very personal reason to you, what was his position out of interest? missionary?

Mostly waiting for Manatee to pop back into the thread.

what

Theres at least 1 wolf on my wagon, town takes more time to think through a post and the alignment which cannot be done with a what post.

Dumb reaction test. Town would be frustrated at his lack of activity just as much as scum would pretend to, and its mostly a deflection from posting actual content.

Quite Clearly manatee has a dim view of the gamestate at this point and is starting to tell in his confusion. I'm not aware of his wagon at this point, but its not unreasonable to believe scum could be pushing him.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

1. people are voting her
2. the trying on a new lurker meta is just weird..

Plenty of players already said something along these lines about Elsa, so it isn't anything new. Also the second time he's jumped on the new and trendy wagon.

So jumping on new and trendy wagons is a bad thing? oh no
is point 2 talking about elsa or performer? both are wierd, so its a good observation.

Hey, ManateeDudge/Almost50/Kokichi, why are Elsa Jay/Lady Angel better lynches than me from your perspective?

Elsa pings me when you bother me more I guess

if dunnstral flips town then i'll be the fucking first one on performer's wagon (hell, even if dunn flips scum it's a possibility)

dunn should still go first

VOTE: dunnstral
Town

The transition between these two posts are awkward. He never does explain how Dunnstral went from simply "bothering him" to actually being scummy. At this point it's also clear he doesn't care about voting anything but the popular wagons, which is pretty safe play and perfect for someone hoping to coast by D1.

Similar to how you never explained the transition from manatee to me, but encouraged performer to sheep you anyway just because you had voted me and given intent to produce content?

[the worst]

The worst, I'm not sure what you're scum-reading me for from the 28% of posts of mine you've seen. The biggest take-away I got was that you think my questions are dumb and stupid, but that just seems like a disagreement in scum-hunting.

Meant to do this yesterday, but I got caught up in other things, so here's my case on the Manatee/Alonzo slot, split across multiple posts for your convenience.

ok we can lynch you tomorrow?? The fact you chimed back into the thread by discrediting my scumread on you like this is annoying

[the worst]

The transition between these two posts are awkward. He never does explain how Dunnstral went from simply "bothering him" to actually being scummy. At this point it's also clear he doesn't care about voting anything but the popular wagons, which is pretty safe play and perfect for someone hoping to coast by D1.

and?
thoughts on his reaction to Dunn--does this exclude Dunn being scum fypov?

[MariaR]

Remember that catch up I promised? Yeah fk you guys not happening too tired

[the worst]

So to recap, we've got Manatee who pretty much just coasted all of D1 and jumping back and forth from wagon to wagon with little rhyme or reason. He makes a few attempts to try to mirror his town meta but on the whole it more closely resembles his scum meta. And then we got Alonzo who cares more about inquiring about other's reads than making many of his own and just overall active lurking for the most part. His progression of his read on me doesn't make any sense at all and practically contradicts itself, and I really just can't buy his reasons for voting me at all, especially considering he knew I had my reasons for scum-reading his slot yet still can't comprehend why I'd vote him.

so can you explain why Alonzo is being interrogative rather than spending time looking more towny? ultimately your case here is "Manatee reps out as scum" which can basically eat shit unless I agree his rep out is AI (lemme catch up for this) and..... you don't like Alonzo's playstyle? where's his scum agenda here buddy?

[the worst]

snowman what do you think of the dunn wagon

Its decent. But I'm more bothered by Manatee/Alonzo's play than Dunnstral's.

doesn't wanna vote his scumbuddy
figures

VOTE: Dunn

[MariaR]

oh shit the worst is here

[Alonzo]

Now, onto Alonzo's ISO...

VOTE: ELSA

How do you like my attempts to derail the current gamestate?

How do you like my vote on all that jelly but no toast?

He starts out by throwing out a vote literally just to derail the game-state. Being self-aware that what you're doing is bad doesn't makes it less bad. A pretty piss-poor reaction test that doesn't read like genuine game-solving.

How was voting Elsa bad? you talk like you are sure they are town.

Alonzo, is there any reasoning behind your Elsa vote beyond "derailing the gamestate"?

Given the hour of my arrival into the game, its part of a larger intel sweep..

Whats your read on Elsa?

Reckon you can help me sort Maria?

Merry Christmas!

VOTE: Carcalilly

Ok last one... wats your history like with Carca?

I'l tell you why I started there after the game.

Sell me on Dunns if you can??

Lots of questions asking others to give their takes on things while also not giving many takes himself. There's hardly any follow-up either.

Most of his ISO is just fluff or him asking basic questions. He does give out a few reads once in a while, but he doesn't flesh them out too much either. There's certainly nothing I'd town-read him for in his ISO, and combined with Manatee's lack-luster ISO the slot looks pretty bad as a whole, but there's one thing in his ISO I really can't buy coming from town...

Now earlier you critisize my pred for having a weak view of the gamestate.

It should be apparent to you I have been in the thread only a few hours when I'm asking these questions it purely to get information, to get a foot in the door, to get a feel for the game, see whos talkative, who isn't whos volunteering info who isn't.

Im being very transparent about not being fully up to speed but you are actively saying there's scum motivation for it...

[Dunnstral]

Oh, and @Alonzo: This isn't me saying you're scum with Dunn either. Scum just don't want to be the one leading a wagon on someone. They would rather vote someone who has been FOS'd by someone else, so when they flip Town they can go back and FoS the person that started the push.

Oh really? Again:

Vote Count 1.14

MariaR:
Almost50: MariaR (1)
Dunnstral: Kokichi Oma, Purrcocet, Performer, Ruby Red (4)
Kokichi Oma:
Elsa Jay: Lady Angel, ManateeDude (2)
Lady Angel: Elsa Jay, Almost50 (2)
Joey_:
Ruby Red:
Purrcocet:
Carcalilly:
Performer: Dunnstral, Joey_ (2)
Chara:
Snowman:
ManateeDude: Snowman (1)

Not Voting: Chara, Carcalilly

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

(expired on 2018-11-14 18:38:36)

Is this me "voting my counterwagon" Ruby?

Vote Count 1.22

MariaR:
Almost50:
Dunnstral: Kokichi Oma, Purrcocet, Ruby Red, Carcalilly, Almost50 [5]
Kokichi Oma:
Elsa Jay: Lady Angel, Alonzo [2]
Lady Angel:
Joey_:
Ruby Red: Performer, Dunnstral [2]
Purrcocet:
Carcalilly:
Performer: MariaR, Elsa Jay [2]
Chara:
Snowman:
Alonzo:

Not Voting: Joey_, Snowman, Chara

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2018-11-16 18:38:36)

How about this?

[Alonzo]

The things I've already pointed out about Alonzo's play are bad enough as it is, but what I really want to talk about is his progression from tr-ing to sr-ing me, because it's entirely disingenuous.

Oh fuck page three, now it really does look this was prepared over the course of the day..

I just Dived snowman to see if I could find any discrepancies in his progression onto me, but snowy has a pretty driven town! Iso.

This was what Alonzo posted earlier last night before the worst replaced in. Take note that he apparently A)Dived through my ISO and B)Couldn't find any discrepancies in my progression on him (as implied by his concluding remark). Which makes no sense when considering what he posted after the worst's replace in:

@TW dunno if u caught up yet, but SM would turn up and vote me out of the blue for undisclosed reasons

First of all, I literally wrote two paragraphs just before my vote summarizing what was scum-indicative from both Manatee's and Alonzo's play, so me voting him "out of the blue" for "undisclosed reasons" is already disingenuous, but it's impossible for him to miss the ten dozen times I pointed out scum-AI things from Manatee's play as well because he said he went for my ISO specifically looking for discrepancies on my progression and came to the conclusion I had a "driven town ISO", so that further invalidates this whole "voting him out of the blue" bullshit.

encourage Perf to do the same

Again, never voted him for "undisclosed reasons" -- that's just a straight-up lie. And I asked Performer specifically to vote because he was already sr-ing Alonzo, or at the very least sr-ing some of the posts he made, so it would be reasonable to expect him to vote Alonzo with me.

then dissapear like a fart in the wind when I called him out on it

Called me out on what? That I didn't flesh out a case THAT I LITERALLY SAID I WAS GOING TO FLESH OUT LATER? Like, I know I didn't get to it as soon as I said I would and I feel pretty bad about that, but for Alonzo to act like he caught onto something is just entirely bullshit.

Even if we assume that Alonzo was convinced enough by the worst's dive through like 1/6 of the game to do a complete 180 on me, which is already hard enough to believe as is, there is literally no way he could dive through my ISO and not find any discrepancies on my Manatee/Alonzo progression yet a few pages later claim that my vote came "completely out of the blue". He was clearly anticipating that the worst's case would be convincing to steer a lynch towards me and hopped on my wagon early, not caring at all that he'd have to spout complete bullshit to try to justify this sudden flip.

If you had voted and given Intent to case me and left it there, I likely dont vote you, but you attempt to move from hardpushing performer as scum to wanting to wagon me with him riding shotgun in a heartbeat.

Yet you just wrote an essay on how my pred sheeping is entirely scummy.

Which means you would be willing to turn around later and say perf moving his vote on me is scum indicative, but your emotive superlative laden metaphor twisting hyperbolic and egocentric push on me is way worse, designed to secure a bad push on some seriously thin wagonomics.

[Purrcocet]

Yeah still think Alonzo is best lynch

How tf

[the worst]

Yeah still think Alonzo is best lynch

How tf

[Dunnstral]

Ice Cream! [Active]: You are a Neapolitan. You may investigate a player in order to discover if they are Vanilla or not. Only Vanilla Townies will return 'Vanilla' results, all other roles will return as 'Not Vanilla'.

This is my role, I'm checking Carcalily tonight

[the worst]

oh shit the worst is here

oh shit maria's here
<3
what's good?

[the worst]

hmm did we run up a scum PR on d1?

[the worst]

anyway ruby is not a viable off wagon. if people buy this, lynch someone else but I'm gonna leave my vote here

[Dunnstral]

Kokichi is town

[Purrcocet]

i dont at all believe that claim lmao

[Purrcocet]

carcalilly is the most obv town player in existence besides nancy drew probably

[MariaR]

oh shit the worst is here

oh shit maria's here
<3
what's good?

Nm non friend how are you <3

[the worst]

Kokichi is town

Tru

i dont at all believe that claim lmao

Neither do I tbh

carcalilly is the most obv town player in existence besides nancy drew probably

Is Carca hard town for you here? (gonna resume catchup, at the start of page 7)

oh shit the worst is here

oh shit maria's here
<3
what's good?

Nm non friend how are you <3

not much at all my fav non friend who I wanna be friends with <3

[Almost50]

OK.. I'm lynching between Dunn and EJ today. Role =/= alignment. However, if people want to give Dunn a night to see if scum will shoot him I will settle for a No Lynch (because I'm not voting outside of these two).

[Chara]

carcalilly is the most obv town player in existence besides nancy drew probably

she claimed vanilla. she's the only one a vanilla cop would bother checking.

[Ruby Red]

i mean i feel like it's not really true that neap results are only useful on people who claim vt