Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

[Amzela]

Y'all, Almost50 has told me about the ISO view and this is amazing what is this bullshit phpBB you were not this fancy before.

[DrewVa]

So you believe that Drixx and I are "winding" DrewVa up? To what end?

you're either shading DrewVa up because she is pushing something that doesnt help your win con.

or if you are "winding DrewVa up" apparently to no end then it's just unpleasantness for unpleasantness' sake

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

How is RR winding DrewVa up in the first place
Nancy was pretty high strung to start with

I don’t know if I’d characterize it as a “winding up” necessarily. All I did was politely ask Drixx to dial down the histrionics thing because I found it hurtful, then everything just blew up.

I just wanted him to stop doing that - and ONLY that. I didn’t see that as an unreasonable request at all and still don’t.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: profii

[Varsoon]

Just ate so so so much food. Turkey day is great, ya'll.

Anyway
RR doesn't make this play as scum, imo.
Also, Mafia is a game of rhetoric. You should expect that literally anything you post in the game thread is subject to speculation and doubt--if it bothers you that your earnest emotions can be interpreted as rhetorical posturing, maybe avoid games where that's literally a strategy.
I'm pretty much taking you both at face value regardless, for what it's worth;
Like I believe DrewVa is actually frustrated/feeling these ways
and I believe RR legitimately is finding issue with how DrewVa is playing
But like I said
I don't think either of their play is specifically attempting to manipulate others.

[RCEnigma]

RCE v Varsoon are never buddies here

Why can't we be buddies? Start a wagon on partner, give mostly garbage reasoning that looks surface level ok, say "hmm ok but I'm not sure" when their arguments are countered, jump off the wagon and shade lightly for good measure.

That's....scum distance/buss prep 101. Unless your argument is that Varsoon is more capable as scum. I've only skimmed one Varsoon scum game and I'd agree but simple is fine in a game this large, it looks active even if it's not going anywhere.

[Varsoon]

^ And by that, I mean dishonest manipulation. Like, yes, obviously, both are trying to convince others of their viewpoint, but neither has a dishonest viewpoint imo

P-EDIT:
Yeah I literally said on page 1 that RCE was my scum partner, guess no one takes RVS posts seriously
whoops I'm doing that trust-tell thing again

[RCEnigma]

Oy Varsoon quick question, how do you feel about RR overall? Also this is the second noisy conflict RR has found themselves in with neither really amounting to anything besides outside intervention to curve it, wanted your take on it.

[ruru]

votecount

With 26 alive it takes 14 to lynch.

RCEnigma (3):	Thor665 (61),	BuJaber (262),	Tails (477),
BuJaber (3):	DrippingGoofball (609),	Varsoon (614),	Majiffy (631),
profii (3):	pinturicchio (450),	Reasonably Rational (893),	Wisdom (902),
Wisdom (2):	hebichan (435),	DrewVa (651),
Reasonably Rational (2):	profii (885),	Amzela (886),
Majiffy (1):	Malakitty (42),
DrippingGoofball (1):	davesaz (56),
hebichan (1):	CheekyTeeky (69),
DrewVa (1):	BrightEyedFish (192),
BrightEyedFish (1):	Alchemist21 (386),
CheekyTeeky (1):	Alonzo (440),
Chickadee (1):	Fortian (830),
Alonzo (1):	Gamma Emerald (897),
Not voting (5):	Creature,	Toogeloo,	Chickadee,	Flavor Leaf (416),	RCEnigma (438),

(expired on 2018-12-04 02:30:00) remain.

[Varsoon]

So RR is a player that I legit do have a ton of issue reading thanks to moderating a TON of their games and seeing them play both sides of the coin.
I'd actually have an absolute scumread on them for the Cerb head taking an experimental/different approach than usual given I recall that kinda being the case when Cerb was in my SaGa Frontier game (hydra'd differently, was third party) but given the town!experimentation with approach in the previous Overkill game, I can't lean too much on that meta point anymore.

I think they're town, especially given the Drixx posts and the general ethos both exude here, though that's more a gut read than something I can articulate very well.

Why, whacha think? Hard slot to parse or something else?

[profii]

So you believe that Drixx and I are "winding" DrewVa up? To what end?

you're either shading DrewVa up because she is pushing something that doesnt help your win con.

or if you are "winding DrewVa up" apparently to no end then it's just unpleasantness for unpleasantness' sake

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

Has DrewVa been successful at making anyone agree with them so far? No? So what would be the motivation for shading them, rather than letting them just continue digging the hole they were already busy with.

The second possiblity, of just winding her up for no reason, is, again, something that would be better accomplished by going after other individuals in the game; that is, if one assumes that we'd even do that, which we never have felt the urge to do in the past. *shrug* Obviously you can't assume that we're not doing it this time, but again, where's the scum motivation?

-Cerb

I'm trying to be polite here and say if there is no reason to this why is it dragging on. It's a bit lame.

No. You've been looking for an excuse to vote us all game. Jumping into a minor personal dispute to have an excuse is pretty bad man.

For the record (for the people who know us): I've been side eyeing Profii since that really bad "reads" list earlier. I wonder who else saw what I saw in the reactions to that. I suspect Thor, Varsoon and Tails all caught it.

VOTE: profii

I'm comfortable here. Too much baggage and noise on the DVA slot to have any certainty and nobody else seems to believe lying with ATE is indicative of anything so ... here we are.

~D

PS - really going to thanksgiving stuff now. Have fun storming the castle!

Wow this is so lame

I voted you because you were either doing something scummy- which fine, going about it a bit like a dick poking someone who you know you’ll get a reaction out of

Or if it’s not scummy then you are just plain being annoying for no reason

So the polite thing is to assume you are being scummy so I should vote you, right?

I mean you weren’t purposely causing meaningless drama , right?

[Wisdom]

what is the drama they were purposefully causing? They were just answering to nancy

[Varsoon]

Yeah profii your vote is bad and you should feel bad
Anyway

Daykill : Profii

[pinturicchio]

what is the drama they were purposefully causing? They were just answering to nancy

This. Your whole reaction about Nancy and Drixx' discussion is off.

[DrewVa]

Just ate so so so much food. Turkey day is great, ya'll.

Anyway
RR doesn't make this play as scum, imo.
Also, Mafia is a game of rhetoric. You should expect that literally anything you post in the game thread is subject to speculation and doubt--if it bothers you that your earnest emotions can be interpreted as rhetorical posturing, maybe avoid games where that's literally a strategy.
I'm pretty much taking you both at face value regardless, for what it's worth;
Like I believe DrewVa is actually frustrated/feeling these ways
and I believe RR legitimately is finding issue with how DrewVa is playing
But like I said
I don't think either of their play is specifically attempting to manipulate others.

I wasn’t upset at having my emotional reactions questioned - it was the unnecessarily pejorative associations with the words he was using. It was - no pun intended - but overkill and with all due resect Varsoon, I have 0 intent of stopping playing games because others - including you - don’t think I have just cause to defend myself here. I have a total right to do that. I agree with you that Drixx wasn’t being scummy but VEHEMENTLY disagree with you that he was not out of line. He 100% was and I don’t see how insisting on having the respect that I or any other player is entitled to - including Drixx/RR - should prevent me from participating in any games. Basic civility is not incompatible with playing Mafia and I am disappointed with you for not seeing the rightness of my side in this.

I think it’s inherently possible that both RR heads have completely misunderstood the rightful basis of my objections to that - due to them - mostly Drixx, unfairly accusing me of attempting to “bully” anyone into not trying to sort me correctly.

I am advocating for being treated with basic respect here - nothing more, nothing less and I won’t ever back down from this stance. On my part, I shouldn’t have called Drixx names but I wasn’t getting through to him otherwise. I’m legit sad and disgusted with the entire thing. All Drixx needed to do, was to apologize for his insensitive, poor choice of wording, while continuing to maintain his reasonable position of my not being defacto townread for my emotional reactions. Had he just done this, none of this hideous garbage would even had occured.

[Wisdom]

drixx was not out of line. You just misunderstood 99% of what he said as you usually do

[Varsoon]

Like what posts/words?
I'll be honest, I glazed through the last 7 pages in catchup pretty hard
Don't mean any disrespect or anything on my end
Just want you to be hard aware that people will for sure misread emotion in this game and will hard misread emotional response as rhetorical manipulation.
It's probably not accurate to call it 'bullying' or something like 'emotional browbeating' but yeah.

[pinturicchio]

Yeah profii your vote is bad and you should feel bad
Anyway

Daykill : Profii

[pinturicchio]

Fuck, p-edit
<-----------

[Varsoon]

P.edit Drixx, I think you’re being kind of mean to me here. Please stop it. Thanks.

If I'm reading correctly, the above ^ is a response to the below

I expect more activity from creature,

thor, RR

, CT.

Both Thor and RR have posted every day. Was there more you were expecting there? Were you expecting uber posting?

They both took a commanding role in overkill 1.
Granted Thor was SK so perhaps not the best comparison but I assume he was playing similar to how he would as town. I've never been SK just seems like the right way to play it.

We always take a commanding role, regardless of alignment. We don't always do it in the early parts of day one in a very large game. We also don't always ignore relatives in town for major holidays (I've had family over for a week already, for example).

Also ... we've already put out at least two solid rationales for why Hebichan and Drewva are looking quite bad from things they posted this game. I'm not sure how much more other people are "commanding" the game atm? I see a lot of people ignoring or hand waving away Hebichan's lying and by some bizarre twist of reasoning, nearly everyone seems to think Nancy's histrionics and circular reasoning are a reason to town read the Drewva hydra.

Not sure what more you want here bud. Maybe be a bit more specific?

~D

Happy Thanksgiving to all the {Insert correct terminology here}™

I don't really get what's mean about this post.

[DrewVa]

^ And by that, I mean dishonest manipulation. Like, yes, obviously, both are trying to convince others of their viewpoint, but neither has a dishonest viewpoint imo

P-EDIT:
Yeah I literally said on page 1 that RCE was my scum partner, guess no one takes RVS posts seriously
whoops I'm doing that trust-tell thing again

Agree, except for the part about my being wrong and not playing games because of that. Otherwise, I agree with you.

I don’t think Drixx initially intended to be hurtful but when I pointed it out to him, he should have stopped it and no one is going to stop me from playing any game because I won’t be a doormat. That will never happen.

[DrewVa]

drixx was not out of line. You just misunderstood 99% of what he said as you usually do

I wouldn’t expect you to ever understand and I still don’t trust you in this game ftr.

[RCEnigma]

So RR is a player that I legit do have a ton of issue reading thanks to moderating a TON of their games and seeing them play both sides of the coin.
I'd actually have an absolute scumread on them for the Cerb head taking an experimental/different approach than usual given I recall that kinda being the case when Cerb was in my SaGa Frontier game (hydra'd differently, was third party) but given the town!experimentation with approach in the previous Overkill game, I can't lean too much on that meta point anymore.

I think they're town, especially given the Drixx posts and the general ethos both exude here, though that's more a gut read than something I can articulate very well.

Why, whacha think? Hard slot to parse or something else?

I think there's a game plan there that I'm not putting together yet, I'll call it consistent for now.

It is a hard slot to parse but there are three slots I'm holding to a different standard so I'm putting them in a separate box. That isn't to say I think less of anyone elses game but your slot, Thor, and RR go in that box for now.

RR for what I've seen in this game already.
You and Thor for previous games played and knowing these are extremely capable players as either alignment.

I don't really want to be heavily influenced by any of these slots until I have a better understanding of their alignment. However RR said you are really the only player in this list that can really pin his meta.

Unless the playstyle change is specifically tailored to you I don't think it's scum motivated.

[Varsoon]

And the correct terminology is

Pilgrims

P-EDIT:
Ditto. I don't think you should stop playing games either, just be aware that people will interpret genuine expression as rhetorical manipulation a lot.
I've gotten mad frustrated with games and literally scoffed at and told to stop AtE'ing tons. It's wild out there.
I still think you should keep playin and I still value you a ton as a player <3

P-P-EDIT:
The previous was for RR, then Nancy; this Post-Preview-Edit is for RCE;
I've moderated like 90% of the games RR's played on-site, I think. I even helped build and spectated Overkill 1. If anyone's cognizant of RR's meta, it's me. A lot of stuff here points to RR's town rhetoric, but a lot of the play is very meta-contrary regardless of alignment, if that makes sense. Cerb-head already spoke towards being aware of this and seeing if people would catch on, so there's a bit of WIFOM there regardless.
Tbh, kinda hoping that they just get killed so I don't have to sort them but their play will make their alignment real evident in time--I've got em as town (possible third party) for now, but I don't see this play as coming from scum RR whatsoever.

[Varsoon]

been literally scoffed at*
monsters
People should always just trust me.

[DrewVa]

Like what posts/words?
I'll be honest, I glazed through the last 7 pages in catchup pretty hard
Don't mean any disrespect or anything on my end
Just want you to be hard aware that people will for sure misread emotion in this game and will hard misread emotional response as rhetorical manipulation.
It's probably not accurate to call it 'bullying' or something like 'emotional browbeating' but yeah.

That’s perfectly fine but he went

overboard

. He wasn’t the only one accusing me of this but I didn’t freak out on Tails, did I? No because he didn’t express it in a way I viewed as disrespectful.

Sorry, I have had people all my life play the “over sensitive” card with me, so I probably did overreact somewhat. But I also don’t think it’s fair for me to have to seriously have to consider replacing out because I feel attacked/disrepected - whether or not it was intended. That’s why I first asked nicely. I stupidly expected RR to get it. Obviously that didn’t happen. :/