Excalibur [Endgame]

[SirCakez]

it's a gif of zoidberg saying "bless this post"
p-edit: how am i anti-engagement?

[Dunnstral]

Considering 216 is an awful plan, I'm going to go ahead and HURT: Tripod

What did Tripod post? GIF doesn't show for me.

It says 'Bless this post'

[DVa]

216's a great plan and the only one that accounts for all of town not being on the goddamn ball.

You're basically saying "town don't even try for cohesion"

[Auro]

216's a great plan and the only one that accounts for all of town not being on the goddamn ball.

You're basically saying "town don't even try for cohesion"

You're thinking that it's probable that ALL town players here would actually commit to, and stick with the plan?
It's veeeery much subject to breaking down real bad even if two or three town don't, which makes it very dangerous.

I'm more comfortable assuming town wouldn't do that, and following a relatively more foolproof plan.

[Varsoon]

@Dunn: Except it fuckin' confirms them as ICs what don't you understand about how IC works

@Auro: Setup Spec doesn't help us do very much here and just informs the scum kill, imo. I think Cakez is more likely town for wanting the game to move away from it. We've got like 10 pages of shit that should be obvious.

@DVa: Or more realistically understanding that it's fucking hard to reign in 13 other jackasses and not hinging an entire plan around it.
Stop shading me with that ish.
HURT: DVa

[Auro]

it's a gif of zoidberg saying "bless this post"
p-edit: how am i anti-engagement?

Like Varsoon's 'wading into it' because his post was called out on, why would he choose not to engage.
But nevermind this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Agree with Varsoon's post, also TR on Varsoon.

They would get confirmed once Arthur has the sword and they tell them to shoot and Arthur doesn’t die.

Ah, nevermind - when you said "confirming Arthur" I read it as Merling having to confirm Arthur, not Arthur being confirmed to town. Sorry about that.

Agree that Varsoon’s post likely comes from town and no problem.

[DVa]

@DVa: Or more realistically understanding that it's fucking hard to reign in 13 other jackasses and not hinging an entire plan around it.
Stop shading me with that ish.

You're asking me to stop telling you that your plan sucks?

You want Merlin to fucking claim day 2 and you want town to attempt 0% cohesion and waste the only investigative tool we have.

[Varsoon]

I want 3 mod-confirmed clears with a hidden Bulletproof rather than a single maybe-cop that fails if we don't hit double scum with it OR if a single town isn't on board with the plan.
In fact, fuck you, I'm going for the sword no matter what you say, so your plan can eat shit and you can die.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Once Arthur vigges, anyone can claim Merlin.

Who cares if Merlin gets cc'd if it's before lylo

Scum probably doesn’t because it would put suspicion on them why they haven’t been NK’d.

[DVa]

@Dunn: Except it fuckin' confirms them as ICs what don't you understand about how IC works

Do YOU not understand the value of a stealth IC?

You think everything about the setup is obvious but literally no part of your plan reflects critical thought about how to play the setup

Pedit: OK well that's nice that you're capable of engaging with criticism

[SirCakez]

now this is my kind of useless fight

[Varsoon]

You're trying to force the worst use of the mechanic and it's scummy to do so because it keeps town from confirming the highest number of town and possibly having an unknown BP floating--there's no higher utility that we can get unless Arthur gets the sword and, with your plan, Arthur never gets the sword.
You know what happens if we have 2 consensus scumreads, realisticly? We force them to gladiate, one flips scum, and then we lynch out the other.
Wow that was hard

[Varsoon]

Stealth IC would be wonderful if one of our stealth ICs wasn't entirely contingent on the other Stealth IC being alive.
Every single day that Merlin doesn't claim after N1 is another night where scum potentially wipes 2 ICs out with one kill.

[Auro]

@Auro: Setup Spec doesn't help us do very much here and just informs the scum kill, imo. I think Cakez is more likely town for wanting the game to move away from it. We've got like 10 pages of shit that should be obvious.

I said there was a difference in the way Cakez came into it as opposed to yours. You have a far more sound reason for the setup spec not doing much to help here, he just came in an existing bias against mechanics spec. I don't think he's town for doing that the way I'd see you as town doing that.

You're saying there's *no* better plan assuming partial cohesion, yes?

@DVa: My question still stands, are you really going to assume perfect town cohesion?

[Nancy Drew 39]

How is there more value in having a pointless stealth IC than there is in townclearing the next day's lynch or mislynch?

And you are ignoring the possibility that the *next consensus scumread is scum* in which case we get a GUILTY and the sword is unclaimed and then we get to use the test again.

Do you not get that?

You guys are not playing toward best case scenario.

Best case scenario:
We force top two scumreads to gladiate
The winner is forced to claim sword
But they're scum so they don't and it remains unclaimed
Then we lynch them and rinse, repeat the next day

Like you all are thinking only of sword giving us an IC but it's *way more valuable* as having the potential to give us guilties

Effectively it gives us the chance to have a public daycop and a lynch each day phase

So no, "everyone claims the sword" is a shit plan

Agree and doubling down on DVa townread. We should follow DVa.

[Auro]

Agree and doubling down on DVa townread. We should follow DVa.

The problems Varsoon and I have posed haven't been answered -- that plan is reliant on amazing town cohesion which is far fetched.
I'm following Varsoon till DVa/Dunnstral prove otherwise that Varsoon is incorrect.

[SirCakez]

nancy who is scum?

[Elsa Jay]

Sorry Dva and Dunn. Gonna be with Varsoon on this one for now.

Also going to sleep. Will expect 10 more pages when I wake up.

[Varsoon]

Makes sense but I'm townreading Cakez' frustration with the game already being 10 pages of setup spec. Cakez's first post was on page 7 with him being like "Guess this is going to be one of those games..."
If there's a better plan, I haven't thought of it. Wish RR was here. RR is way better at coming up with a good plan and browbeating everyone into line with wall posts that obv!town him while getting everyone on the same page.

[Auro]

We should not play towards THEORY best-case scenario, when pragmatically it's going to fail in all probability.
We should adopt a more foolproof strategy, like 216.

@Varsoon: Right. I think setup/strategy spec could be useful for open games, so I'm not gonna give him town points on that alone, myself.

[Nancy Drew 39]

like d.va I said earlier that someone who rando-gladiates early should be PLed
that's def not what I want

Disagree that it should be a direct

Policy Lynch

, this almost feels like pre-emptive opportunism.

Why? Rando-gladiating is terrible for town. If they gladiate and actually lynch scum, than obviously they wouldn’t be policy lynched.

What’s to prevent scum from yolo lynching?

If EVERYONE is on the same page that it is terrible for town, sure.
I've just a general distrust that town players wouldn't rando-gladiate out of what they think are strong scumreads.
PL'd in the sense of *that* gladiate itself, not in the future.
I think scum would be warier than to YOLO lynch and screw themselves over, anyway.

Why couldn’t scum yolo mislynch or yolobus? I wouldn’t necessarily assume a yolo gladiater is town.

[DVa]

The problems Varsoon and I have posed haven't been answered -- that plan is reliant on amazing town cohesion which is far fetched.

Having everyone claim the sword n1 provides the town with the least conceivable information d2.

It is not just a bad plan, it is the worst plan.

216 is not a strategy, it is an anti-strategy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

so long as both are in setup killing Merlin before claim wipes 2 ICs off the map.

You know what else wipes 2 ics off the map? Merlin claiming and saying who arthur is day 2

Yeah, Merlin should especially never claim before Arthur has Excalibur, or we will just get 2 ICs die - back to back.

Think Dunn might also be town.

[Auro]

In fact, fuck you, I'm going for the sword no matter what you say, so your plan can eat shit and you can die.

Varsoon, why phrase it in such an attacking, provocative way? I personally think it's in bad taste.

@Nancy: Yeah, a Yolo gladiator forces the lynch to be them versus the other, bad already + No one's gonna towncred a Yolo gladiator for yolo-gladiating, if anything they strengthen scumreads on them. Scum would probably generally be warier of doing this than town IMO. I can see how it's circular at this point, but yeah, whatever

@DVa: Present a plan that doesn't go whack if two/three town don't stick to it.

@Varsoon: The strength town has in this context is that claims on Excalibur can ONLY be done by town -- therefore IF we manage SOME cohesion, there must be some way to take advantage of that. I think.