mini normal 2042: labeled pictures meme mafia (game over)

[Krazy]

So I'm part of a three man masonry with Irrelephant and Teacher; Teacher is a PGO and Irrelephant is bulletproof so the only hope scum has is to kill me tonight. kekekeke

Vote xwing

[Krazy]

VOTE: Krazy
Nothin personal buddy
Just
I'm 90% sure it's illegal for us to roll the same alignment

Uhm, we were the same alignment and you mislynched my mason partner, or have you already blocked that out of your memory?

[Krazy]

Oh yeah, and then we were the same alignment but we both replaced out, but I'm not sure if you actually know about that alt atm

That time I was incorrectly scumreading you too lol

[Krazy]

Before I SHEEP you Shoshin, can you confirm that you can tell the difference between Keyser Soze and Fluffy White SHEEP?

I don't want to give into your anti-SHEEP bias

[Krazy]

THE WORST ARE YOU DRINKING A MARSHMALLOW

rip i died

[Krazy]

I support sheeping

Is this SUPP Sho or "newSho"?

[Krazy]

I'm town... it's a bit absurd that you'd vote me (one of the few players trying to make things happen) over the players who aren't doing anything, or are actively lobbying against doing anything. It's also absurd that Key would suggest I'm scum and that it was a "necessary" vote without voting himself.

now this, this sounds more like SUPP Sho

[Krazy]

VOTE: Carmen

[Krazy]

Sorry work this week is killing me, realistically I can't guarantee I'll have the time/energy to go full tryhard until like maybe Saturday and I might still be pretty blitzed

for the moment I'm curious why literally everyone isn't voting Carmen tho

[Krazy]

My case was:

Carmen, why did you vote for me?

I was bored and getting tired of RVS. You seem as good a naked vote as any to get the game started.

VOTE: Carmen

Her push on Shoshin was shitty in RVS and then she tried to backpedal.

And it's not like she's posted a bunch of dope content since then to give me any reason to change my read

People really should get lynched out of RVS more, day 1 lasts way too long most times.

Like we can all do the lamist town circlejerk or we can lynch scum

[Krazy]

If so, post why Carmen is scum before you disappear for another 48 hours.

btw this is a pretty douche comment and I'm pretty happy lynching you if you're going to act like people don't have lives, I'm functionally V/LA Tuesday-Thursday right now. Also it's fucking Halloween

[Krazy]

So I literally only have two minutes but tw you seem waaaay more engaged than I remember from you as any alignment, did your break from mafia really amp you up? Cause you're pretty outside my firsthand experience with your meta atm

[Krazy]

I understand you want to sort me and I haven't had time to do "my thing" which is why sho suspects me atm I think but I also don't control when the game starts and people probably don't realize that most of my heavy presence is fri-mon.

This game also started a bit faster than I thought and I thought some work stuff would be done before it started

Ok gotta go now

[Krazy]

It's not that I'm incapable of playing better as mafia. It's that I simply can't maintain any degree of effort as scum for longer than a couple pages. I hate being scum, and that shows up very quickly in the way I'm treating the game.

do you want to link an example game of this?

[Krazy]

Hi Krazy, one more question to answer when you return:

You say you didn't like Carmen's interactions with Soshin during early D1:

Her push on Shoshin was shitty in RVS and then she tried to backpedal.

How do you feel about MY interactions with Soshin, and FLUFFY's early interactions with Soshin - do we come out better with our pushes than Carmen?

What makes Carmen's push 'bad', and our pushes 'good'?

For you I have mixed feelings. 88 was good, less of a fan of 89. Usually mixed feelings --> town for me but we'll see

Flufflez I need to metadive probably but I've been okay just being amused by his posts in the short run. I don't think he comes out as scummier than here Carmen tho--it's the backpedal that reads as scummy to me, not just the push itself

[Krazy]

If you look for my meta you may find yourself very disappointed.

right...

so are you an alt or are you from MU or something? I mean you don't have to say, I guess if you don't want to out your main that's fine, just means I have another no-meta slot to deal with

[Krazy]

So basically I have three categories of the player list then:

Meta-potential:
Irrelephant11
teacher
Keyser Söze
xwing

Off-meta/meta-unreliable:
Shoshin
the worst

No-meta:
FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP
Carmen

sadly the last few times I've gone full tryhard half the scumteam has been no-meta players or people *townier than they are as town* so that's always good for paranoia.

[Krazy]

VT -- sample size 100+ posts: viewtopic.php?t=77508&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

VT -- sample size 150+ posts: viewtopic.php?t=77146&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Town Backup -- sample size 300+ posts: viewtopic.php?t=77119&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

VT -- sample size 67 posts (Coalition setup): viewtopic.php?t=77544&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

VT -- sample size 100+ posts: viewtopic.php?t=76996&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

...

gdi elephant where are your scum games? do you have anything from this year?

[Krazy]

VT, sample size (low - 15 posts, but all d1, so maximum relevancy) -- viewtopic.php?t=77339&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

VT -- sample size 193 posts (hey I was in this one ) -- viewtopic.php?t=76847&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

town something, stupid mod never revealed pt, sample size 156 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=76559&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

VT -- 134 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=75952&f=52&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Goon -- 80 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=76530&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Related Scum PT: viewtopic.php?f=94&t=76529

Goon -- 29 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=76121&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Related Scum PT: viewtopic.php?f=94&t=76123

[Krazy]

Town Backup -- 417 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=77119&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

VT -- 431 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=76627&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

--- games after this point are over a year old ---

VT -- 63 posts (killed early) -- viewtopic.php?t=72397&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

town loved -- 255 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=71300&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

town -- 97 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=71697&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

problem here is that I could fish for a scum game but it's going to be so old idk if it will be relevant

[Krazy]

vt -- 120 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=77254&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

vt -- 64 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=77080&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

vt -- 54 posts -- viewtopic.php?t=77508&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

no scum games

[Krazy]

so teacher should be the most sortable based on meta

everyone else is contrast from vt with minimal tpr/scum references

two people have no meta (unless Carmen wants to out her main)

two people are, imo, off meta

cool

[Krazy]

the worst and shoshin simply default to null for me today. I have zero interest in lynching either one today but there is too much paranoia to call them locktown

flufflez has no meta and has had a tonal shift under pressure, so I'll have to think about that

Carmen has no meta and my first impression was scum, and my track record with first impressions so far has been pretty good

[Krazy]

Yeah I have to start with my dataset tho. I usually do this all in a pt because I know some people will ignore it/don't care/whatever, but then I always get killed n1 and it's all gone to waste, and I prefer feedback and impression as I go anyway

[Krazy]

Everyone starts with a null-->leantown initially until I have a reason to adjust that read, because there are simply more town players, so if I don't have a reason to see them as scum there's no reason to go into it

Well, people often accuse me of buddying due to the confidence I assert with my early townreads. And I've also been very wrong on a few strong townreads recently, so I've been trying to be more self-critical of my townreads as well. To that extent, my base position so far has been

null-->townlean
the worst / teacher / Irrelephant11 /Keyser Söze /Shoshin / xwing / FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

scumlean
Carmen

Course, there has to be two scum of course, so somehow I need to differentiate, but unfortunately there are different levels of paranoia

the worst -- Here, you are well outside your meta in a pro-town direction. this was the case recently in a game where ofhrz was scum, where I saw someone outside their meta in pro-town and that actually was a bad sign. But I also have no interest in lynching you d1 because mislynching you for being too townie is extremely bad for site meta, so while I have high paranoia I'm just going to keep you locked as null for the moment

teacher -- Err, for some reason I feel like teacher has had decent presence, but at a glance, he is actually slightly more in line with his scumgame. Last time I was with him I correctly sorted him as town very quickly, but maybe his real life business is tilting my read

Keyser Söze -- Right, already noted the posts that most struck me

Shoshin is a hard read to explain atm, I have very high paranoia for her right now for reasons I can't explain due to site rules, even though her play here looks very similar to her play in SUPP. Partly the observer effect here, and her knowing that we were both in SUPP, has made me a bit more cautious to say this is an easy townread. But so far no reason to see her as scum.

saving these three for next post: Irrelephant11 - xwing - FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP

I will try to do a more structured tier list after I have reviewed iso of those three.

[Krazy]

Spoiler:

What's scummy about lying?

VOTE: SHOSHIN

STOP TRYING TO START THE GAME

THE WORST ARE YOU DRINKING A MARSHMALLOW

ALSO FREAKING OUT OVER GETTING VOTES IN EARLY GAME WHEN WE'RE DEBATABLY STILL IN RVS REEKS OF SURVIVALISTIC

CARMEN I'M SORRY YOUR BURN ISN'T THAT SICK

OK

UNVOTING

THIS IS RESPONDING TO THNGS THAT XWING SAID IN POSTS 186 AND 187
1. DO YOU DISAGREE? SHOULD I DISAGREE? ARE TWO OPINIONS NOT BETTER THAN ONE? IF SHOSHIN HAD A WIKI PAGE I WOULD LOOK AT HER GAMES. ALSO I don't. But I want to.
2. OH I GUESS I HAVE TO RESPOND TO OTHER THINGS ON THIS IF I WANT THE NUMBERS TO MAKE SENSE. I VOTE LAMIST. DUMB THING TO SAY WITHOUT ANY MORE THOUGHTS PRECEDING IT. I DON'T THINK THOUGHTS PRECEDED IT, NOT IMMEDIATELY, AT LEAST.
3. HAVE YOU NOT SEEN THE META READS? DO YOU NOT AGREE WITH TW'S? ERGO, DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT SHOSHIN WOULD ACT THIS WAY AS TOWN?
4. WHY AREN'T YOU CONSIDERING THAT CARMEN IS BUDDYING ME AS WELL? LIFE LESSON: TOWNREADS AREN'T BUDDYING. BUDDYING IS CHARMING SOMEONE AND A TOWNREAD CAN GO WITH IT, BUT A TOWNREAD ALONE IS NOT BUDDYING INDICATIVE.
5. DON'T TRY TO MAKE YOURSELF LESS "NICE." PEOPLE WILL PROBABLY FIND YOU MORE PLEASANT IF YOU DON'T. MANHANDLING YOUR PLAYSTYLE IN GENERAL IS A BAD IDEA. JUST GO WITH THE FLOW, YOU KNOW? WHAT COMES NATURALLY.
THE OTHERS SECTION: WAS IRREL TOWN OR SCUM THAT GAME?
NEXT POST
1. I FEEL LIKE PEOPLE ARE INCLINED TO GIVING READS IF YOU PROD THEM ABOUT IT
2. I'M GOING TO EXPLAIN IT IN MY NEXT POST
3. https://www.google.com/search?safe=stri ... SV2k_RaMss
ALSO WITH IT BEING DAY 1 AND WITHOUT RESPONSE, IS THAT NOT REASON ENOUGH TO PRESSURE? -ISH, WHAT I SAID IS REALLY ONLY TRUE IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, IT JUST DOESN'T SOUND AS NICE WHEN I TACK ON THE VARIABLE-NESS OF PRESSURING.
4. viewtopic.php?p=10519365#p10519365
5. OK

After a long (30 seconds) of consideration I have decided to use normal case.

Screw this I'm voting Shoshin

Vote: Shoshin

Ok.
I finished reading/skimming Shosh's iso in the games the worst provided and that makes me feel better.
UNVOTE:

So this is a mess to sort, and not because of the caps.

>Starts off very trollface.jpg
>does quick reactionary votes
>unvotes, but not for very long, but with no new scumread, just because they did something he likes (this is something that always pings me but is something I do see from certain town players regularly; this is one of the things I would have prioritized in a meta read tbh so it's annoying I can't use that here)

Pressuring a single slot is pretty good for early game, I have found.

this is the post that most perplexes me, since he moves his vote around quite a bit with very little pressure, but think that pressuring a single slot is good for early game

on the one hand, I feel like this sort of 'meta-cognitive strategic dissonance' is something I more often see from town, but it is also something that always makes me doubt my read. I don't want to call it hypocrisy since that tends to tilt people, but like I feel like town more often is guilty of thinking they know an optimal way to play, and then don't play that way

a paranoid concern here is that I'm worried scum are often genuinely funnier than town, because they feel less pressure and are less concerned about gamesolving, and this has been a pretty funny slot imo. but I also am not about to lynch someone just cause they're funny

I'd say that my mixed feelings here do not make me want to vote this slot over Carmen. More on the "null-null" rather than null->townlean tho

[Krazy]

UNVOTE:
shoot this is micro, not mini
sorry for L-1
or wait is shoshin l-1 idk

I think Carmen is town because it reminds me of skitter interacting with you for the first time
I think Keyser is town because I liked his gif and I want him to be town

let me think, teach is on me, sheep on krazy, keyser on teach, shoshin on teach
okay great

vote Carmen

love the sheep, interested in the development on the read of Carmen. I want to say I townlean just because this type of 180 is something I see waaaaaay more often from town

I am here to playyyyy
Krazy isn't? what the heck man

I'm here now bae, sorry this is just a fucking mess of a

weekend

week

month for me

Oh wait this is technically my first game with Krazy
but uh
[redacted]

very redacted

sheep let's talk about Carmen and teacher
pretend one of them has to be scum and help me figure out which it is

townlean

[Krazy]

like tw, what does this mean?

Little thing here but I like that he is confronted with you quoting a movie he clearly hasn't seen, and asks what you mean by it, because it *could* be interpreted as a high paranoia reaction that was worth further development.

Hi xwing, welcome to mafiascum.
How long have you been playing mafia for?

(Right now getting wolf in sheep’s clothes vibes from you )

this is the first and only site i've played in..i've completed 3 newbie games here so far, so this is my 4th..im trying to complete the requirement to become SE when i join back to newbie queue (i wanna polish my skills there before trying other queues, and mod pointed me to try out this one)..

how so?

this seems like a reasonable reaction because I'm not off-hand sure what Keyser saw as wolfish in the early posts

re irrel: i've just finished playing with him and he's waaaaay different here than in newbie queue..but im thinking he's just adjusting his play based on the player list/level..so i have yet to slot him..just giving out my thoughts before i forget..

@xwing can you expand on your perceived difference in elephant's play?

im surprised im a high townread..usually my indecisiveness lands me in hot water..

interesting since I don't feel like he's been particularly indecisive this game; this is another one of those things where the difference in how the player sees themselves from how I see them makes me think they might be more likely to be town

shoshin slot pings me coz she still hasnt stopped talking about herself even after multiple comments from others..also when she got probed, multiple people immediately came to her meta defense..not sure what to think about this..

this reminds me a lot of how I felt when I first played with Shoshin, even if I think his read here might be wrong

townlean

[Krazy]

Okay, so this is where I'm at:
townlean: Irrelephant11 / xwing
null-->townlean: Keyser Söze
null/high paranoia: Shoshin / the worst
null-null/null->scum possible: teacher / FLUFFY WHITE SHEEP
scumlean: Carmen

[Krazy]

Can't talk about it, hoping I can talk about it soon, but I can't explain any part of that until the game in question finishes.

[Krazy]

She was scum before that, but she did not become town when reacting to L-1.

[Krazy]

First things first, happy scumday duck!

[Krazy]

Now I'm left in an awkward position since I can't just naked vote flufflez like all the cool kids

I guess I'm going to say intent since that's where my vote would be, but while I do want a claim to get that out of the way, I don't really plan to hammer until we're feeling good about the solve

[Krazy]

just one question before I finally descend into true paranoia madness: is Krazy scum who thought I would be mislynchable because the last time he saw me in action I didn't give a fuck abt mafia and did he expect to resolve his paranoiablock via ascending his read on Shoshin (who is objectively obviously town) and descending his read on me?

free hugs to anyone who can parse this for me bc paranoia is real

To be clear, the reason I had you as a paranoia read is because out of the games we've played together, some of the most recent games I sorted you incorrectly. Most notably, I scumread your replacement in Epic Duel. That game was pretty bad for me so I feel like I've broken my hot streak on correctly sorting you. So really I'm like only 50% correct sorting on you. Epic Duel false positive, Advice Mafia Correct Townread, Supp Correct Scumread, Espeonage's game [correct scumlean but I didn't push you so I count this as a miss personally]

Like I know that my push on you in Supp left an impression, but Epic Duel is still very fresh in my memory, and it's also tilting my read of Sho. (Which I can now talk about since that game has finished)

[Krazy]

Like this is almost something I should ask in postgame but I guess I just need to know, Sho -- wtf is this?

viewtopic.php?t=77435&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[Krazy]

I'm not really seeing anything that shakes my solve right now, I think I'll probably vote tomorrow morning and risk the self-hammer

[Krazy]

what are we supposed to glean from here? (too lazy, didnt read but skimmed VERY quickly and just noticed her responses were very short)..

This is a towngame by Sho where she sheeps people, but mostly it just feels really different to the other towngames I've played with her. Like she says at one point that she was deliberately trying something new, so it's odd to see her kinda go back to her 'usual' playstyle after an experiment like that

[Krazy]

he's unimpressive so far which is disappointing

[Krazy]

This game, at least, duck
<3

[Krazy]

So thank you Teacher for bringing this up -- viewtopic.php?t=75861&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

This is a really fascinating scum game and it's pretty exciting to look through.

Elephant is... surprisingly strong as scum. I think part of what makes this game so jarring for me is how frontloaded his conversation of his scumpartner is; he talks about Nauci in the game quite a bit early on. Partly this is due to a wagon forming on Nauci, and a lot of it has to do with interrogating people for moving off the Nauci wagon, which is some smooth distancing.

In fact it's almost jarring how focused the conversation is on his partner, in large part because of the wagons again, but at a glance I'd say Elephant actually seems a bit *overly focused*. Like it's the opposite of how someone like HeWhoSwims plays scum, where they kind of don't want to commit to a read on their partner's slot at all. I'm almost inclined to say that Elephant, as scum, treats his partner here like 'normal scum' would try to pocket someone. It's kinda cool.

So a few observations here:

-First, as an analogue, this scum game offers from the meta problem analysis problem that it is in the newbie queue, which on the whole tends to favor longer posts. To that respect, the 'zoom out test' as I call it doesn't work here. Elephant's posts here are a lot more casual and more chatty, which suggests both that he has softened up a bit and I'd say grown more comfortable as a player. It also means that one of my usual testing methods though (how does the player construct a post?) is not actually that helpful. Because it's quite different. Other things, like memes and jokes, are much more common here as well. Irrelephant has, without doubt, become funnier over time.

But in terms of substance, I think I think I am confident in saying I would maintain my townlean on Elephant every time. As much as Elephant might warm up as a player over time, I feel like it is much harder to practice, as scum, mimicking the 'scum-hunting' thought processes that he has as town. So what I notice in this game is that he tends to push wagons, but doesn't start to overly focus on wagon analysis or reacting to people discussing that particular player. He moves around a lot more, he focuses more on independent reads of other players, and continues to explore the mindset of players. Elephant here doesn't seem to have the 'agenda' that he does in his scum win in newbie queue.

So, I am really glad Teacher mentioned this game so that I have a scum game from Elephant to work with, it's fascinating material, and it almost makes me want to commit to a solid townread on him. If I wasn't still permanently scarred from other games where I committed to hard townreads, I probably would.

[Krazy]

So what I notice in this game is that he tends to push wagons, but doesn't start to overly focus on wagon analysis or reacting to people discussing that particular player.

EBWOP -- "So what I notice in the game that we're playing now..."

think my pronouns might have gotten a bit confused between the game I linked and the game we're playing whoops

[Krazy]

Yeah, I guess my problem here is that FWS is claimed scum, and so the slot is so far gone now we're basically looking at a serial killer game where the serial killer is trying to decide the right amount to bus

on the plus side, shouldn't be any more risk of self-hammer, so I'll go ahead and do the L-1

VOTE: Flufflez

[Krazy]

I think I said in the game what happened. To get me to sign up for the game, RC promised that he wouldn't replace out or do any of the dumb stuff he usually does like self-voting... and then he randomly duelled a player with no reason to believe the player was scum, so I stopped caring about the game.

Decent game, though. Good result for the amount of effort.

There's two things here

>I feel like you warped your meta around one person you knew well (RC), and did NOT do things you do as town around me because you didn't know I was in the game
>You demonstrated that stances you seem to hold in your 'usual' town game (being very independent, rarely sheeping, etc.), are actually negotiable around certain people

I mean I can't talk kinda cause I was on my cruise-control alt recovering from my tilt at Advice Mafia and actively trying to avoid an in-game personality war with RC so yeah, but what I wasn't expecting was for your town game to read so differently than it usually does

Basically I feel like your town meta actually has a lot more range than I knew which makes me kinda wonder about whether your scum meta might be wider than I expect (or as you claim) as well

[Krazy]

VOTE:kRAzY

Spoiler:

[Krazy]

It's like he can't quite decide if he wants to lolcat or not

like, vizzy is not a gamethrower lol

[Krazy]

lol he didn't self-hammer because he didn't know he was at L-1

[Krazy]

Im l-1 after TW's vote I think, someone unvoted so Scum! wouldn't quickhmmaer?

he can do math after all

nice try tho duck

[Krazy]

Spoiler: for the duck

should I tell elephant or not?

[Krazy]

KEYSO SO TOWN
gg scum keyso if thats a thing

so we're back to lolcatting

teacher, you have permission to bus

[Krazy]

do none of you know what a hammer test is
guys

yeah but after he stops and actually checks the math it's not going to work

either he spews immediatley or he wifoms

[Krazy]

ducks have hair?

[Krazy]

Yeah sorry, my work schedule has been a bit f'd lately and... frankly I've been having a hard time wanting to even look at this game at this point. I feel like every town game I play there's just the most baffling of decisions. I just don't get why some people insist on turning every game into an such an uphill battle.

I'll try to get over my tilt and do a proper dive tomorrow night, although I'm half tempted to just vote Teacher here and roll the dice. I don't think there's a solve that doesn't include him.

@Sho, here's a scum game for me, enjoy -- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76913

[Krazy]

VT

[Krazy]

<3 too Kray; I feel much the same way.

Thinking this through. On the one hand, okay, your read of me changed. On the other hand, I'm a little worried that your read of me changed after Shoshin asked whether both you and Irrel agreed that I was town. I hate accusing people of political reads, and I don't think it's unreasonable to take Shoshin's argument seriously, but the development of your read of me is a bit jarring. Mostly because it seemed like I was your top scumread, and now you've kinda flipped your reads since Thursday in ways that just happen to align more with Sho's.

[Krazy]

Did you crumb?

[Krazy]

Ok. So the question for me today has been "Teacher/Irrel" or "Teacher/xwing" with Teacher/xwing being the more likely scenario since I was still pretty okay with my towncase on Irrel and xwing seemed like a weaker read. The problem with xwing being his shallow meta--with no tpr flips and no scum flips, I had no way to differentiate his scumplay from his tpr play based on meta. I still don't, although I do think that this isn't his VT meta.

The problem here being that xwing's "crumbs" are convoluted in a way I would expect a bit more from town than from scum so this presents a problem with my solve. But... they also are not very *overt* crumbs and one thing I notice is that the first one is not *specific* to doctor. So it could be that xwing was planning to fake-claim "one-shot... something" ... the "heal" comment in the second one does bother me though. hmm

So between Irrel and xwing, I have:
xwing: who has only VT meta, who is clearly not playing as VT but where we have no other games for reference where we could tell his tpr play from his scum play
Irrel: who feels like he has had some thought processes that are hard to mimic as scum and who I feel pretty strongly is town

One of these two has to be scum, and I think I would gamble on xwing most times here.

Since meta presents issues with xwing, the other question is, are Teacher's flips in reads more in line with a scum partner, ala early-game Penguins, or does he maintain a bus on Irrel on the assumption that if Irrel gets lynched he wins in 3-way? (Or that if he gets lynched, that Irrel seems properly distanced?)

Now, he did have a newbie game, where he stuck to the "never talk about your scumbuddy until you have to" mentality but Otters vs. Penguins I think is the much more representative game for where he is as a scum player

Here's how he develops a read flip on scumbuddy BBT, with other partner Nos being his "don't talk about this so much" partner:
Initial distancing vote in Penguins --

Spoiler:

Im actually kind of inclined to agree. Last time I played with Town!BBT, they pushed a mislynch (me, grrrr) several times, but at least provided reasoning.

VOTE: BBT.

BBT - strongest scum/town read, why, and +rand on it?

Flip to different push - (also from Penguins)

Spoiler:

So, if there is anything I have learned on this site so far, it is that I don’t yet get the meta of short posts and brief analysis and, as a result, my reads suck. Like bad. My last game, ALL of my scum reads were town. So please take these reads for the exact two cents they are worth, and I welcome any thoughts on how to make them better.

1. Wave is my hardest townread. I like his reads (mostly) and when he has gotten them. I like that he is explaining them and trying to convince town without pushing. I don’t see scum motivations for any of the posts, including those acknowledging valid points of suspicion on him.

2. I genuinely don’t know what to make of BBT v. Byron. I disagree with Byron’s scumreading asshattery, as I think scum would want to be liked, but much of that is playstyle rather than alignment anyway (asshats will be asshats, etc). I townread most of Byron’s posts in this spat, especially what seems like a genuine youthful appeal for information. On the other side, I don’t understand why BBT kept pushing a Lefty wagon past when it seemed like reaction testing would make sense, but I also don’t think scum!BBT wants the attention he has been getting for it and for being an ass. TvT if I had to call it, but if one is scum it is BBT (who is properly categorized as a null in point 4, just included here for discussion with Byron).

3. My remaining and weaker townleans go to Lefty and Performer, in order. If Performer hadn’t made 211, which I like, he’d be down somewhere between 5 and 6 for the earlier buddying.

4. Several others are posting content, but still null for me: Garmr, TChill, BBT, Invis. These are listed in the order in which I think I have a feel for their thought processes, even if I don’t have a confident read of their alignment/motives yet.

5. My strongest scumread is on Gustavo. Seems to be hopping around to the inflection point of wagons but has been holding back reasoning. I don’t like the way he backhanded my question about Tchill-BBT, but then criticized Lefty for backhanding his own question. FWIW, I asked the question because I had no idea what to make of the Tchill-BBT interactions, but found it bizarrely strong buddying for early in the game.

6. And then there are the low-post lurkers. In my experience on this site, at least one scum is in this pool: GEO, Nosferatu, Tommy Egan

VOTE: Gustavo

Here's the thing that really seals it for me on Teacher -- he likes to present his read flips as part of a full-game analysis. This makes it seem like his thought process is coming from looking at every player rather than just one. I think he does it this way to make it seem like he's not tunneling and also helps distract from the distancing since he's just pushing in new directions.

So far today he has flipped his reads of both me (which seemed like it was in relation to Sho's comment), and then xwing (based purely on the claim which caused him to back away very quickly), but the thing about xwing is that he presents his flip in read as largely coming from setup spec. This reminds me a bit in the way that someone like Gamma Emerald busses, where they come up with some meta/setup spec reason to flip their read in the hope that this will garner them towncred.

Now the problem here is that Teacher knows I read his scum games, he knows I think about how he plays. But he doesn't know *exactly* what I look for. He knows that I do look for frequency of interaction, and I did notice in his iso that he does make an effort for several short, small interactions with xwing early on.

But the main thing for me today is that his read flips on both me and xwing seem to not come from a town thought process, I feel like he's trying to disrupt associative tells more than anything else.

I'd like to hear whether Sho and Irrel have any issues with a Teacher/xwing solve.

[Krazy]

Nice shade

I don't think town!teacher ever tries to throw it all on Sho like this lol

[Krazy]

You did throw the decision at my hands, but you also interrogate my reads in detail. It's not even close to the same lol

[Krazy]

this reeks of bad faith

THIS reeks of bad faith

In that game, you had literally no idea, and even then you interrogated my reads in detail. Here you have a solve and you're still throwing it at sho every other post

[Krazy]

Come on. There's a pretty big difference between "I literally have no idea, it's up to you" and

"I think it's irr+xwing but now it's up to sho"
followed by
"I think it's krazy and irrel but now it's up to sho"

[Krazy]

Krazy - explain the no sho nk from a me-xwing perspective, when that slot scums both of us more than either of you. That to me is the key to this game. It shows the fear of a doctor to the extent of yielding conftown (but off base) at lylo.

Maybe so you can make this argument right now? "Oh no, it can't be us, we would never kill the person that suspects both of us going into lylo!"

Please.

[Krazy]

Yeah I certainly don't remember you shading people every other post as town

"You're misrepping that game"

>every post is tonally night and day

"You're only trying now"

>Your first encounter with me was me replacing into a game at lylo

I think I prefer town teacher, he seemed nicer. Scum Teacher is full of AtE

I bet the game here every time
VOTE: Teacher

[Krazy]

Well I was leaning you before this game, then you started making a bunch of political reads, did some anti-associative distancing, and are trying to hard pocket Sho. Meanwhile, I have 66% chance to hit scum between you, Irrel, and xwing, so why on earth would I need to wait? The only one who needs to wait is scum, Teacher. And your reaction to my vote is telling. From your top townread to not even considering the possibility I'm tunneled. Like, I never bought that you townread me, and this pretty much confirms it.

[Krazy]

It’s more that the claim brought you out of your shell Krazy just as soon as it put the game at risk.

Yeah accusing me of presenting a solve after the massclaim is done as unusual is incredibly disingenuous.

[Krazy]

Sho don't you make me bust out the fireworks images

[Krazy]

Irrelephant seems more interested in a solve, whereas xwing seems to be more disengaged than he was before. It could be that xwing hasn't been seriously presented as part of a solve with Teacher before and that's throwing him off?

I did a joint reread of Irrel+Teacher to see that for solve and while I see some of the reasons Sho is concerned, I still don't think Irrel plays scum exactly like this.

Qualitatively, another thing I notice is that xwing's town games in newbie queue tend to have a lot more short posts. He feels a bit chattier in newbie queue than he is here. He does update his reads lists frequently, but usually his updated reads lists also are paired with a change in vote, which he's not doing here. He is basically a bit more passive in this game than he is in his town games. As has been observed, this is not his VT game, but considering one-shot doc is such a weak power role, why would we assume he would shift his meta so far?

So basically I'm still feeling fine with Teacher+xwing solve

[Krazy]

If you think that bus will buy you enough towncred to put you over Relly, you're wrong xwing.

[Krazy]

Yeah that's fine

[Krazy]

I'm sorry for being disappointing Relly

Blame mean old Shadd for rolling me scum

[Krazy]

Its as close to a gamethrow as I'v ever seen onsite..

[Krazy]

Teacher, I did feel bad (not because of what you said but more because of how manipulative I felt in trying to win) and I'm glad you didn't take it too personally. I wish we had been town together this game!

[Krazy]

But duck, did you ever answer the real questions?

[Krazy]

THE WORST ARE YOU DRINKING A MARSHMALLOW

[Krazy]

big daddy neapolitan

Mod error--this wasn't the title as flipped in the game

:3

[Krazy]

Invis what was your plan here?

uh