Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Mitillos]

Mine, I think.

[Krazy]

Pylons

Neverpagetop.gif

Votecount 1.7

Performer(4)

~ Shoshin(52), Irrelephant11(42), Nauci(28), Varsoon(46)

Shoshin(3)

~ teacher(1), Xtoxm(8), Performer(9)

Xtoxm(1)

~ skitter30(19)

Varsoon(1)

~ the worst(48)


Not Voting (6): Creature(26), Keyser Söze(24), Not_Mafia(0), Mitillos(15), Saudade(15), AlmostNancy(48)

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-12-13 17:16:27)

FLAVOR

Spoiler:

[AlmostNancy]

ok the game like doubled since i went to sleep last night lol; might take more than one post to catchup

106 I have very WIFOM thoughts about this post and the use of "same team" instead of "both town." I would think scum faking this banter would take care to say "town" instead of "same team"? But then again, if this was a casual thought typed directly into the box without too much thought for manipulation, it felt quite scummy.

if they're scum together why would he say it here instead of in the scum pt?

i don't really think saying 'same team' instead of 'town' is much indiciative of anything tbh
except that it's all-encompassing and he might be referring to past games where they were svt and other games where they were tvs, and 'same team' kinda refers to both past scenarios in one phrase if that makes sense

(i don't know what their history is)

==
@saudade - is 'the cat' referring to nauci?

==

Oh, cool, Varsoon is here. Now to sort out whether it's N's N. N. N. Varsoon, or Among the Chosen Varsoon. So far he looks like his town self, so that's not a wagon I'm interested in atm.

how do you characterize town!varsoon?

@Shoshin: I'd rather not talk about that quite yet, and wait to see what he does for a few dozen posts, instead of just saying "Hey, Varsoon, here's how you can convince me you are town, enjoy".
Also, I wouldn't consider it a waste of time, so I'd like to see your response to Varsoon, but I won't insist if you really don't want to.

fair enough, but i'd like to hear a little later since i'm not suepr great at reading him

==

עד מתי נוב12

just curious, was the 12 supposed to be here?

==

I provided plenty of reasons for my scumread.
You just saying that there's not any is literally wrong.

Once again, Shoshin
You're either scum or your judgment is flawed.
Which is it this time?

i mean we did this last time

from your posts on the last page i can tell you're not following her thought process. ie the things you called out from her i don't think are actually scum-indicative from her really, but i can understand why you're questioning them; i also think it's unlikely that you'll get answers to those questions from her

i think she's obvtown for her
i'm trying not to engaging her because she frustrates me, so i'm content to have just sorted her and move on with my existence

i think you should listen to me/irrel here given that we tried to tell you this last time and were right

i haven't sorted you yet

do you ever pick fights with people on purpose as scum?

what were your most recent scumgames again?

==

Furthermore, me taking umbrage with people having easy townreads isn't even a scumtell or a towntell, it's literally what any player should do regardless of align when, within 6 pages, there are over a dozen thrown out 'this person is town' naked reads.

ok, what do you think of me doing that?

==

Someone stop me - I feel like mitillos' scumread of me is agenda-y, and I would not like to tunnel on town if I am wrong.

i disagree with his reasoning for why he exluded your se games but i can understand it

holistically i'm tending town on him

==

As for trajectory, did I need one? It's post 51 of the game. But sure, here's the trajectory: I asked Skitter a question about her read on Mitillos, because I felt that she was sheeping me. As you can see later in the game, when I explain the vote on Skitter, I state that the reasons I suspected Skitter were due to the way she was following my reads (as well as others) instead of forming her own, which felt very different to me than the way Skitter played as town in my prevoius two games with her. That was my trajectory. A question, followed by a vote when I saw someone else had the same feelings. I strongly believe that having others who share your feelings about something adds strength to the force behind those feelings, and in this case it did. That isn't "spineless," though - it's just smart play.

i disagree that i sheeped you
i had similar conclusions as you did.
that doesn't mean i had them *because* you did, or that i was trying to mimic you on purpose

like i'm not sure how you can even possibly distinguish sheeping you from forming my own reads that incidentally were similar to yours at that stage and i dislike that you assumed it was the former instead of the latter (i've previously told you how i feel about sheeping even ...?)

==

i think i retract the townlean i had on creature earlier

==

It's kind of baffling that you propose a policy lynch on me and when Irrel + The Worst + Performer deny it outright

Fixed.

I dont like policy lynching (and for that matter I dont believe in the notion of "too scummy to be scum")

this post is kinda pinging me
i'm not sure which way yet

i'm putting it here so i hopefully remember to go back to it at some point

==
ok starting a new post

Well, I do find it scummy in general to fix quotes without giving some hint as to what was changed. I read Shoshin’s whole policy lynch on Varsoon thing as a joke, much like I read TW’s promising to lynch us tomorrow as one.

~N

Okay, I’m starting to understand A50’s townread on you. Definitely agree with you on militos.

[Shoshin]

But I generally play with players who are willing to reassess their reads constantly and don't put a ton of stock into page 10 reads.

I'm constantly reassessing reads. But I think there's more than enough information so far to find town/scum among the active players.

[Varsoon]

Mine, I think.

Rude.

[Nauci]

Lol @ having 2 strong instant scum reads in a large game. Get ove4 yourself.

I'm glad you decided to respond to pressure with great contributions and sortable content that makes it easy to town read you

[Varsoon]

But I generally play with players who are willing to reassess their reads constantly and don't put a ton of stock into page 10 reads.

I'm constantly reassessing reads. But I think there's more than enough information so far to find town/scum among the active players.

That's good. I have good confidence that you'll find 'em.
That's why I'm following you.

[Shoshin]

Nancy, what're your reads so far?

[Shoshin]

But I generally play with players who are willing to reassess their reads constantly and don't put a ton of stock into page 10 reads.

I'm constantly reassessing reads. But I think there's more than enough information so far to find town/scum among the active players.

That's good. I have good confidence that you'll find 'em.
That's why I'm following you.

Excellent decision. Thanks for trusting.

[Varsoon]

Lol @ having 2 strong instant scum reads in a large game. Get ove4 yourself.

I'm glad you decided to respond to pressure with great contributions and sortable content that makes it easy to town read you

Hey maybe don't be a prat like this.

[Varsoon]

Besides, Performer makes me uncomfortable for reasons that I've articulated but can't really do beyond that, so I'm good with following you there.

[skitter30]

VOTE: shosin

I was already getting scum vibes from calling a bunch of different people town for no reason and campaigning for a policy lynch is just a dick move

do you think she was seriously calling for a pl?

==

And her confidence in scatman being scum and saying he's doing a pointless debate - the posts from vars dont look like pointless debate, it actually looks like shoshin is just writing vars off as scum.
VOTE: Shoshin

does anything change if i told you that i saw town!varsoon and town!shoshin previously have a similar fight to this and she wrote him off as scum there and tried to lynch him?

==

In the case of both of them, I don't really understand how they've come to all of these conclusions.

idk, which ones do you want to know more about?

Shosin's got townreads on most the players townreading herself.
Skitter's not being townread by anyone but is still giving out a ton of townreads.
I don't really know what to make of it, to be honest.
And I think I'm getting way more onto having more information than analysis here, but
I don't think Shoshin's reads are genuinely informed. I think Shoshin's townreads are hugely based on how players are reading Shoshin and how much Shoshin is capable of influencing others by handing out TRs.
That's what I was feeling when I voted for Shoshin. That's what I still feel now.
What do you all think?

do you also think mine are not genuine?

==

i feel pretty good about town!irrel too

the caveat on my reads is that I have townleaned friends who do not deserve it before because I like them

When you post stuff like this, Irrel, it feels like you're scum giving yourself wiggle room to later be okay with a lynch on your townreads, 'cus you were just 'friendreading' them and could be wrong.
:/

i actually thought this post was kinda townie for him tbh

==

honestly I think the moral of the story is shoshin/almostnancy/theworst should be the unbreakable townblock for the entire game

Even this one

what' bothering you about this post?

==

But that's clearly because I am threatened scum who must undermine your town efforts to consolidate power.
Definitely.
It's not because I suspect that there's scum in the block.

do you still think shoshin is scum? ifnot, who's scum in irrel's proposed townbloc?

I do suspect that at least one of Irrel, Shoshin, AlmostNancy, and TheWorst is scum, yes.

why do you think there's scum in this group?

==

I actually see Irrel as hard-softing mason on you right now with his whole 'if you do not believe me, lynch me first' play.

i mean if you think this is athing why are you pointing it out?

==

I’m struggling for town reads so Varsoon’s attack on the ‘town read frenzy’ is actually refreshing and comforting

huh, i actuallly feel like i have a lot of townreads at this time

==

It's kind of baffling that you propose a policy lynch on me and when Irrel + The Worst + Performer deny it outright

Fixed.

I dont like policy lynching (and for that matter I dont believe in the notion of "too scummy to be scum")

Further self conscious posting that makes me suspicious af

yeah that post was weird; i'm still trying to work out why

==

Since I feel strongly about performer and/or xtoxm, this temporarily clears teacher in my eyes

sorry, can you explain again why that vc makes you like teacher?

==

Hey Irrelephant, want to policy lynch Varsoon?

Yawn.
Whatever.
You've never mislynched anyone before, why start now?
I'm just gonna follow you until we win.

Yeah it's a fantastic plan, you guys have a rock solid townbloc, I'm just jealous I'm not in it, let's just win.

the saracasm/annoyance here feels maybe a little townie to me?

==

ok i reached my last post so new post now i think too

[AlmostNancy]

You know if varsoon wasn't in this game I would just replace out at this point because the attitude coming from many players is totally disgusting

Do you not have an opinion on my post or was that one it?

If so, I officially throw my hat in the ring for the “disgusting” contest. Based on your quirky creative interpretations of words, I think this one has real potential.

[Nauci]

Yeah, because anyone claiming strong reads this early in the game is more likely to just be

lying

.

Interesting you’d say “lying” as opposed to just wrong.

So, lemme get this straight. According to you, everyone who has claimed to have a strong read - either town or scum - is more likely to be straight-up lying than wrong.

Wow, this must be like the most scum sided game in the history of Mafia then.

Nice catch

[Shoshin]

A thought: Nancy once called me "shamelessly bad," "atrocious," and "a blight on the ecosystem" in the middle of a game, and maybe other things I forgot about? It was quite harsh. But now we're friends? So I hope that all the players who dislike me will one day come to enjoy my playstyle.

[Varsoon]

@Skitter: Elaboration on all of your reads would be nice, preferably.
And I've decided that Shoshin is lock-town here and I'll follow them.
My thoughts and reads are compromised, given that my playstyle is so different from anyone else's, so it's impossible for me to come to a correct read on them.
So it's much better to put my stock in someone who is level headed, decisive, and has a 100% record of never mislynching.

[Varsoon]

A thought: Nancy once called me "shamelessly bad," "atrocious," and "a blight on the ecosystem" in the middle of a game, and maybe other things I forgot about? It was quite harsh. But now we're friends? So I hope that all the players who dislike me will one day come to enjoy my playstyle.

I'm giving it a chance for sure.
Show me the light.

[Nauci]

Lol @ having 2 strong instant scum reads in a large game. Get ove4 yourself.

I'm glad you decided to respond to pressure with great contributions and sortable content that makes it easy to town read you

Hey maybe don't be a prat like this.

Hey maybe I don't respond to condescension with acquiescence

[skitter30]

@Skitter: Doesn't matter what my thoughts are, I don't understand how other people play, and, therefore, can not come to an accurate read on them.
It's much better play for me to put my trust into Shoshin, who has never mislynched anyone before and who will lead us to certain victory.

ok i get what you're saying and where the frustration comes from (hi she wanted to mislynch in mylo there, remember?) but she's town so i'm just accepting it and moving on

i want to try to sort you tho so it would be helpful if you share your thoughts

==

In retrospect, I think the fact that we were all agreeing about things early on in a very natural way is a sign that we're on the right path, sort of like what happened in American Presidents.

yeah i'm feeling pretty good about this game thus far; i feel like i have a pretty good number of townreads for this stage and it helps to see other people thinking similarly

that's why i was a little confused when keyser said a few pages back he was struggling to form townreads because i feel like there's people in this playerlist that he shouldn't have *that* much trouble reading - it was just like a completely differnt understanding of the gamestate that i was a little bit surprised

==

Well, I do find it scummy in general to fix quotes without giving some hint as to what was changed. I read Shoshin’s whole policy lynch on Varsoon thing as a joke, much like I read TW’s promising to lynch us tomorrow as one.

~N

Okay, I’m starting to understand A50’s townread on you. Definitely agree with you on militos.

you know you can quote only part of a post instead of quoting the whole thing, right?

==

meh, i'm happy with my current vote rn

[Mitillos]

Sorry mod, couldn't resist.

@Shoshin and skitter mostly:
So, here's the thing. I think town Varsoon is more happy-go-lucky, doing stuff for fun and profit, and not giving much of a shit. Scum Varsoon on the other hand is more wary in my mind. Originally he looked like town here, because his attack on Shoshin seemed genuine, even if I think it was incorrect. With more recent stuff, I've changed my mind on him, though.
I'm thinking of Micro 302, where he showed very similar behaviour as here (which is also why I questioned him on his defensiveness). In particular, his posts to Irrelephant strongly reminded me of this post. He also seems to be going for a lot of AtE towards Shoshin and a few others which is again similar to what he did towards me in Micro 302.

I'm not seeing the scumminess from Performer and Xtoxm, nor the lack thereof from teacher, but I'm open to being convinced (because I don't really see their towniness, either).

[Shoshin]

that's why i was a little confused when keyser said a few pages back he was struggling to form townreads because i feel like there's people in this playerlist that he shouldn't have *that* much trouble reading - it was just like a completely differnt understanding of the gamestate that i was a little bit surprised

I agree with this. He's not someone I'm townreading yet, which worries me. But he's also less scummy than players like Performer & Xtom.

[AlmostNancy]

xtoxm you should post more so that it is harder for nauci to mislynch you

Why are you so sure xtoxm is a mislynch? Is this based on meta?

[Nauci]

I think I've contributed plenty to be read thus far

Taking a break from this game because the rampant condescension and disdain is unproductive and infuriating and I'm just escalating into it

Pedit: Side note, I think I'll always be biased for skitter30 because it's so easy to understand and often mind meld her perspective

@mit: my "read" on teacher is wholly independent of his posts and rests on the idea that 3 scum wouldn't vote shoshin together and I don't scum read teacher as much as the others. My read on performer is for being extra self conscious about how others are reading him to the point of elaborate pg down explanations while ignoring the abundant other content that deserved commentary, and xtoxm for almost actively refusing to contribute much content. However, this is just on possible scenario and I don't have confident town reads anywhere near this early in the game

[Creature]

I need something to feel better

[Nauci]

xtoxm you should post more so that it is harder for nauci to mislynch you

Why are you so sure xtoxm is a mislynch? Is this based on meta?

I read this as Irrelephant's plea to xtoxm speaking from xtoxm's POV presuming that he's town and I'm "lying"

It's a very in character device for townrelephant and I'll have to read his more recent scum game(s) to determine if scumrelephant does it too