Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Krazy]

Votecount 1.15

Xtoxm(3)

~ Performer(35), AlmostNancy(244), Nauci(99)

Keyser Söze(3)

~ Shoshin(137), Varsoon(110), Irrelephant11(93)

Performer(2)

~ Creature(83), Mitillos(32)

Saudade(1)

~ the worst(167)

Nauci(1)

~ Keyser Söze(46)

Mewtaph(1)

~ skitter30(99)


Not Voting (4): Not_Mafia(8), Xtoxm(46), Mewtaph(4), Saudade(19)

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-12-13 17:16:43)

MOD REMINDERS

Prodded Not_Mafia and Mitillos

FLAVOR

Spoiler:

[Performer]

So irrel said Rory Swann was a Terran engineer. There IS mention of guns in his wiki.

[Performer]

I think there would have to be a big reason for her being scum for me to consider her as a contender for being scum at the moment and I don't think that really exists atm.

Like what does this sentence even say about Nauci
“There would have to be a big reason for her to be scum for me to consider her scum at the moment, and I don’t think that exists at the moment”
Say it out loud and you’ll have like the definition of a tautology, and you’ll also really find yourself living *at the moment*
I don’t disagree that Nauci is townish but it’s not because *theres not a big reason to call her scum at the moment*

Nothing mewtaph has posted reads

real

so far
VOTE: mewtaph prove me wrong

Man if you really are a town pgo then we really lucked out

how did we luck out if we have a town pgo?
this is like saying we lucked out if there was a claimed gunsmith.

[Performer]

I really need to check his meta more before feeling comfortable with it. I started reading his games but need more time and have been a bit busy the last couple days.

If you cant get to reading any of my games, check my most recently finished newbie game with FL as IC & Not_Mafia who was scum, and tricked us . It's newbie something (I forget the #), the title has Robocalypse in it.

[Performer]

creature, not_mafia,

Refresh my memory, why are they in your lynch pool?

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Keyser

[Performer]

Varsoon: why not mewtaph? Why get on Keyser now, instead of when Irrelephant and I tried to pressure there, even though nothing has really changed about the slot and he continues to say he'll engage Soon™?

I am not even sure who mewtaph is replacing
Getting on Keyser because my vote follows Shoshin's
Why get up in arms that it's now instead of like 10 hours ago?
Just get it wit it

I'm not as bothered by him not voting mew , compared to the continued sheeping of shoshin AND continued preaching of how she is unmistakable. I find that whether that's true or not isn't the issue, but it's the motive - something that scum can easily use as an excuse.

[Performer]

VOTE: Keyser

Oh look, my friend not_mafia with an unexplained vote . You won't be getting an easy pass in this game like you did in that game, NOT_MAFIA . I'm watching you.

[Performer]

Was it NM who replaced Saude?

I think mew came in for teacher, and krazy is still searching for someone to come in for saudade? But I thought gamma was waiting in the wings.

Town claiming pgo instantly loses all it's utility, scum will never target it. Scum claiming pgo gives itself a free pass from all night threats. If I was scum and got dealt a pgo safeclaim id be looking to claim it asap.

Town claims it if they're a doctor or cop or some sort of strong role that doesn't want to get night killed but can't guarantee its own protection.
Here's the thing though,
Does anyone know what Irrel's history of fake-claiming is?

I played one game with him and I dont remember seeing him fake claim.

Varsoon, you know from experience that I can read Irrel so trust me on that, please.

This is a cringeworthy post

I am not voting Irrel. He shouldn't be the vote .

[Performer]

Town
Creature, Varsoon
The worst

Nulltown
Nauci, Keyser, spotter

Nulls - everyone else

Nullscum
Mewtaph, NM

Scummy
Shoshin, a50, irre

There. Now you can mock me after the game for how bad they are.

How are creat & tw town?

[Performer]

At this time only scum is in a position to comment on the quality of my reads.

Who talks like this ...?

[Performer]

i mean she can be obvtown, doesn't mean i think her read accuracy is particularly great or that she should be lolsheeped or anything

Her reads are a helluva a lot better than yours this game.

i mean, yeah, that

i dont' think scum!her can replicate this really, so she's town basically

like this game looks exactly like her town game

She’s obvtown but we should ignore her reads, is that it?

who wrote this - a50 or nancy?

Who do you think?

You can’t even tell our posts apart but we’re supposed to believe you can accurately read A50?

A50 dude. If you are scum in this game, I give up
Reminds me of Kevin Hart, so funny I had tears coming out of my eyes at his concert last month

-----

I'm considering bumping mitillos down a little for taking his universal town read and bouncing for almost 2 days now

We're... not allowed to have a life??

[Performer]

@skitter: I sign my posts "one way or another". If you can't tell who posted, then it's Nancy. Happy now?

Just want to say that I find it totally unnecessary for people to sign which head is posting from a hydra. So, I dont care if you dont sign .

Putting shos back into my sr for that readslist she recently provided.

Eager to see what keys has to say , as well.

[Performer]

Everything above Saudade is towny. I think it's very likely that the scum are among Key/Performer/Xtom/Saudade,

So, saud is town, then he's scum.

[Performer]

pedit: reading too fast - thought "above" said "about"

[Nauci]

creature, not_mafia,

Refresh my memory, why are they in your lynch pool?

POE (I can't read them, so I can't town read them, and my read is unlikely to improve later in the game)

[Nauci]

I feel like there are a several misunderstandings in your posts, performer (e.g. varsoon has only ever sarcastically said shoshin is 100% accurate)

Also I don't remember Irrelephant saying what Rory Swann's job was? (Fwiw, he was an engineer who created all of the weaponry for the protagonist, hence why I thought gunsmith would have been appropriate)

I'm having a hard time parsing some of what you said

[the worst]

heavy tpr spec in this setup is probably bad. turst me on this one

[Nauci]

Yeah I gave up on it pretty quickly but I was really paranoid that one time I woke up at 5 am

[the worst]

Actually Xtoxm is reminding me of usual large game me as well. Check gunner mafia or heroes wanted. I seriously don't think this is scum coasting so much as town who isn't super comfortable / ~~in the zone~~

Maybe. I don't mind leaving him alive for a couple days to see how he plays.

How are you feeling about a Performer lynch at this point?

i'm still feeling pretty cold on a performer lynch but i also have a LOT of townreads and he's one i owe a reassessment. on reflection i don't think i've actually got any finished games where we towned together, only read his games--his energy feels different to schadd_'s the chorus of i'll call b4 i cum mafia.

[Nauci]

I think there would have to be a big reason for her being scum for me to consider her as a contender for being scum at the moment and I don't think that really exists atm.

Like what does this sentence even say about Nauci
“There would have to be a big reason for her to be scum for me to consider her scum at the moment, and I don’t think that exists at the moment”
Say it out loud and you’ll have like the definition of a tautology, and you’ll also really find yourself living *at the moment*
I don’t disagree that Nauci is townish but it’s not because *theres not a big reason to call her scum at the moment*

Nothing mewtaph has posted reads

real

so far
VOTE: mewtaph prove me wrong

Man if you really are a town pgo then we really lucked out

how did we luck out if we have a town pgo?
this is like saying we lucked out if there was a claimed gunsmith.

Irrelephant is a great player and this would mean he's not getting NKed which to me is a boon

[Mitillos]

Getting prodded hurts.

I'm still happy with my vote, given that Performer put someone at L-1 without even mentioning that he did so. Nothing has changed there.

Skimming what's been going on, I think that despite the sketchy stuff, Xtoxm might just be frustrated town who isn't completely sure about the meta of the players in this game. I know I am.

[Mewtaph]

Who do you scumread?

I haven't gotten enough scum vibes from the player list in terms of those who have been active so far which is what is somewhat concerning me currently. On the other hand, there are some slots that I haven't gotten much of an impression of such as whoever Saudade's replacement is or Not_Mafia. Mostly my hesitance to vote somewhere like that is that it doesn't make much sense to vote a slot in scrutiny before seeing what the replacement has to offer as a player, and also I don't want to jump on the idea of wagoning players that might just not be deserving of a wagon with intent to lynch and not just to pressure which sometimes becomes intertwined to the point where people don't know why they're voting someone or the actual reason why just isn't reality. This is probably most pertinent for Performer and Xtoxm.

______

Mew deviated from hivemind by explicitly throwing me in a town bucket but without providing any specifics as to why

Mew, can you list at least a couple of concrete and specific reasons for town reading everyone in that list? And explain why irrelephant isn't when you believe his claim?

Also, do you have any scum reads? Or analysis of the xtoxm or performer wagons forming?

I think it makes sense to distinguish between strong town reading someone by play or for any other compelling reason from reasons to town read someone based off of claim and flavour space that I personally have little knowledge of.

In terms of talk of wagons, I think the wagon on Performer from what I followed came from an intrinsic dislike for their style of posting, so I'm avoiding buying into that, and I think the correction of their play after Keyser's analysis of his town "meta", while overdefensive, comes from town more often than scum because it gives us pointers to refer back to see if his play is matching up to his town play or not. As far as what Xtoxm has specifically done, I've so far avoided commentary there to avoid biasing their response to my question, but I think it's fairly obvious they've ignored me at this point. I think that from somebody willing to refer to themselves as honest (which I am willing to buy into if they give me enough reason to) they would have some sort of thought process behind the spreading of town reads, associated specifically with Shoshin, with the entire player list, other players or a combination of all three. So Xtoxm wrt dissing people for giving out town reads but not explaining where the point of disagreeance comes from in specific town reads but just generally "throwing" around town reads that, as someone trying to own being "honest" (946) is concerning.

Also, towards the idea that I didn't include Irrelephant11 in my town group, it's fairly clear where my thoughts are on him right now wrt him being more townish than not, and I don't feel like I need to reiterate that my reads are changing and being reassessed with as I'm taking new things in. If I reiterated the town group at the end of the post in question, Irrelephant11 would definitely be in it.

______

That's a pretty fair summary tbh, the real time interactions + proactive approach to Shoshin is what kinda feels the towniest outta Varsoon for me as well

I think I wanna talk to you about more stuff when I'm more sober tbh but like, I'm glad you caught up and I get the feeling you actually did read the entire thread which is a good vibe

At first I was like “yeah fair summary for sure”
And then I reread and realized meetaph’s post says nothing
Now how do you feel about it

I can see how if you feel my posts are saying nothing and are more aimed to making myself look good, that that may ping you as scum, but I'll probably become more "real" when interacting with other players rather than recapping my thoughts on events that most of the playerlist experienced in or near its occurence being able to react and interact with it.

Wrt Nauci's request, I think following up on my strongest town reads in an attempt to prove myself as less "hollow" or more "real" makes little sense in the regard that it's a 15 player game in that I am fine with opening with town reads on the players I've mentioned based on what I've read of them so far and some background knowledge of some of them, but am uninterested in delving deeper into the why when I haven't been offered the chance to interact with these players first hand (and hence reassess how valid these reads based on vibes I've gotten via reading the thread in seamless chunks versus vibes I'm getting real time, taking into account gaps in posting, feeling on who's pushing what and to what extent, etc).

______

Trying to think about how scum would approach the Varsoon v Shoshin as TvT keeping in mind how it went down and I'm inclined to think that scum would simply not post or skirt around engaging with it wholly to allow the possibility of paranoia to foster between those two players, leaving it as an option to easily push on later.

this feels like you're calling a {vague unidentified} group of people scummy for behaving in a given way without actually narrowing donw on who's scum because of it, or who individually is scummy

Do you disagree with my thought that scum

wouldn't

leave paranoia to foster between those two players? Because the way I'm using it is not to shade everyone in the playerlist other than Irrelephant11 and people that voted for Shoshin after the interaction but to justify my thought process behind town reading someone based on their approach to Varsoon vs Shoshin. The problem is, wrt people not posting about it, that was actually a lot of people posting at the time, so I guess a better question to have asked would be: "Would Irrelephant11 approach a Varsoon vs Shoshin TvT in this way?" and by asking this question I'm coming up with no. I think you going for the comment about my predecessor is really disingenous on basis that the nature of teacher's replace out could come from both town or scum and is more associated wrt "opening the slot up for people that are waiting and willing to play". I think you know this too which is why I'm confused you're pushing me for it (and it's an argument I personally can't tackle directly at all, as teacher cannot post for himself anymore).

I think Nauci has contributed to the thread positively overall and have felt townie enough to deserve a town read. I think it could just be a case of that Nauci has been doing townie things but they're just being missed? I think there would have to be a big reason for her being scum for me to consider her as a contender for being scum at the moment and I don't think that really exists atm.

this doesn't actually mean anything?

like idk what townie things *in particular* do you think has been missed?

like you're describing a nullread to me; i'm not sure why anything you said here is a reason to townread her particulalry?

Our point of disagreeance may be coming from that I think Nauci should be town read for what she has done as a holistic slot, while other players have displayed a hesitance to buy into that read. So if we're talking about how it might seem more like a null read because of how many conditionals I seem to be putting on it, eg. "at the moment", "does a reason to scumread them exist", that is more of a question to players null/scum/cautious reading them (as I was responding to the worst, who expressed caution in reading Nauci), not wrt the strength of the read. I'm not going to say Nauci is untouchably town, but they're just like slightly below that and I want to personally be moving forward noting them as town then reassessing where I'm actually at with it in the future.

______

I disagree with Performer's post where he votes Shoshin, but I think that his phrasing in that post among others indicates that it's more likely to come from town than scum (but this is a weak thought and I'm not willing to go in on a town read of this nature).

What part of his phrasing are you referring to here? And why more likely town than scum?

There's something about the comment about thinking you were setting up mislynches, which kind of makes me think that translates to Performer being town based on how it's a similar town thought I've seen before in response to influential players. I'm going to have trouble articulating that in a way that doesn't seem baseless or difficult to parse to other players especially considering he's a universal negative read, so it's something I will have to just going to tail mostly in observation rather than direct interaction to figure out if it gets stronger or not. From the posts I've seen from him since my first post in the thread, the read has gotten stronger so far specifically for his bit on skitter in 1248 and their response to N_M's vote in 1257. I'm thinking that if Performer is town there will probably come a development where I am really confident on him being town and if he's scum then it won't come and things will just start to feel off and irky (this hasn't happened yet). The more Performer posts, the easier I think it will be for me to read him.

______

I was somewhat underwhelmed by mewtaph basically calling all of the "loltwonblock" town and nothing else in his catch up post

@Xtoxm: Taking your recent acknowledgement of many of your townreads townreading Shoshin, where would you say you are at with regards to Varsoon v Shoshin being a TvT?

[Nauci]

Is Key a force of nature as scum? I feel like he's much more aggressive as town, in a way that he hasn't been in this game, even when he's been here.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=70754&user_select[]=25845

This is the Keyser scum game I'm most familiar with, and my impression of him was that he practically played puppeteer on both town and his teammates, swooping them out from dangerous positions into a scum flawless sweep

I did a good bit of Keyser game skimming for my last game and I don't remember any case of him being just absent

[Nauci]

Mew, I realize your style is against posting specifics, but in all the time you spent catching up, were there any moments where you read a post or move from someone that stood out to you? From anybody of any alignment indication. What posts did you think highlighted someone's motivations that made them strong town?

What do you think of xtoxm's read list vs reaction to shoshin/Irrelephant? Do you think it makes sense that varsoon could have made him change his mind when both shoshin/Irrelephant were in his scummiest reads?

Can you link me a scum and a town game that you think best represents your playstyle?