Mini 2039: uPicketyPicketyPick Mafia Endgame

[Varsoon]

You wanna know how to play with RC?
You work with him, not against him. That’s how I’ve learned to handle RC.

Nah, fuck that. I'm not going to be strongarmed into his shit.
I'm sick of that dude's attitude and approach to games.
Acts like he's some how shit when he's just an arrogant guy who's wrong more often than not.
He's loud and petulant and whines when he doesn't get his way.
He'll make any excuse for being wrong, too.
Watch, if ya'll lynch me before him, watch him try to squirm out of being wrong about me.
Dude's such a force of negativity and anti-town rhetoric on a fundamental level and he sees nothing wrong with his play.
That's what makes it hard to separate his town game from his scum game, because he's awful regardless.
That said, I am fairly certain this is his scum play in this game.

[Varsoon]

Look at him squirm and writhe around even right now to try to justify lynching a delayed IC on D1.

[Varsoon]

I'm not making a single excuse here. This is your scumgame, as I've outlined since the first vote I laid on you.

[Varsoon]

Re-read how my role works, you toddler.
I activate it each night to trigger a new passive modifier.

I never said I was going to IC today.

[Varsoon]

It illustrates how you're trying to hide in that hedge with your trash play.

[Varsoon]

@Gamma: How aren't you bowing to his will when you're sheeping him while voting a claimed delayed IC?

[Varsoon]

Stay basic, all of you.

[Varsoon]

Where did I say that, you fucking liar?

[Varsoon]

Oh cool can you read that little bolded part just before that where I say that I activate my role at night?
Yeah?
Cool.

[Varsoon]

But no, please, keep proving that you're willing to lie about things in the public game thread in order to try to leverage a lynch on an IC.

[Varsoon]

Motherfucker Gamma what the fuck do you even mean
I HAVE TO ACTIVATE MY ROLE EACH NIGHT
AND I AM ACTIVELY TRYING TO PICK THE ONE THAT MAKES ME IC
HOW GODDAMN UP RC'S ASS DO YOU HAVE TO BE
TO MISREAD THIS SHIT

[Varsoon]

RC, you can keep trying to piss me off and saying that I'm scum and that the things I say are something town would never say, but I'm done with you.
You're still voting an IC even now and scrambling for excuses to justify it.
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

I'm not going to respond to you anymore because it's what you want, scum.

[Varsoon]

You're still voting an IC even now and scrambling for excuses to justify it.
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

You're still voting an IC even now and scrambling for excuses to justify it.
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

You're still voting an IC even now and scrambling for excuses to justify it.
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

@Gamma:

[quote="In post 1022, Varsoon"

I'm an Innocent Child.
The way my role works is like a blind JOAT.
I have six different abilities--one of which is IC.
Each night, I can choose the flavor name of an ability to activate, but I do not know which mechanic it is tied to.
I am fairly certain I know which one will confirm me, but it could be a misdirect.

[/quote]


Am I the only motherfucker who READS anymore???

[Varsoon]

@MOD: can you fix that quote tag? Thx

[Varsoon]

Also, I've gotta thank RC for tilting that the scum team has a roleblocker. Makes a lot of sense in this setup.

@Gamma: What do you mean?
I activate an ability every night.
I'm trying to get the IC off ASAP but I don't know which ability does what.
Where do I indicate that I wouldn't aim for the IC first?

[Varsoon]

now he's making the roleblocker excuse that as it happens would have occurred to him a lot sooner as town

Asked the mod very early on and, actually, a roleblocker wouldn't stop me from activating passives, just from affecting other players with targeted abilities.
So get shit on.
Roleblocker in this setup makes tons of sense with powerups being telegraphed so thanks for the scum!tilt.

[Varsoon]

Oh, wait, that's right:

You're still voting an IC even now and scrambling for excuses to justify it.
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

Shouldn’t that not be roleblockable tbh

It's not.

[Varsoon]

Apologies, I did get carried away,
though that's what RC wanted.
Hm.

[Varsoon]

Don't let RC talk you out of lynching them.
They'll say and do anything to wiggle out of being held responsible for wanting to lynch the IC.

[Varsoon]

The day following the night that I pick the right matching flavor name for the ability.
If I can't get it before LYLO and I haven't been killed or confirmed otherwise by then, feel free to lynch me.

[Varsoon]

RC keeps overlooking the fact that a D1/D2 for-sure confirmed IC defeats the purpose of the minigame and gets killed every time in this setup.
But ay that doesn't fit his narrative.

You can make it the day before LYLO, I don't really care.

[Varsoon]

You're still voting an IC even now and scrambling for excuses to justify it.
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

RC also keeps acting like all my other abilities that I can roll aren't negative utility because he feels threatened by my role.

[Varsoon]

You're still voting an IC even now and scrambling for excuses to justify it.
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

It's because they're not trying to solve the game and just threatening Maria with a scumread because Maria won't sheep.
Look at how RC's handled all the rest of their reads.

[Varsoon]

Listen to me

Varsoon is dying today

If you want me to trust NSG's townread on you over my meh read on you don't be on a counterwagon, yeah?

RC threatening to revoke a townread on you to keep you in line is some of the most blatant posturing I've ever seen.

^ Like here.
And why would RC even be 'trusting' a townread from NSG when he scumreads NSG?
It's all just posturing.

[Varsoon]

I'm not going another day with scum RC in the setup.
Dude's trying to buy himself a night to maximize his chances of survival.
No way am I going to let that pass, especially after seeing how much he's poisoned this game already and won the minigame.

[Varsoon]

Yeah why would a delayed IC want to survive another day?
Gamma, you're so deep in RC's pockets that I'm surprised your userimage hasn't changed to some of RC's loose change.

[Varsoon]

RC, you can lie about what our interaction was as much as you want, but players can also literally go read the game.

I've provided more than enough reasons for why RC is the best lynch for D1.
I won't be shifting to anyone else for a lynch.
The current minigame is coming to a close, so we should make the most of the time we have left.

Spoiler: Tangential

Please stop playing in this way. It's incredibly disingenuous and frustrating to deal with.
I mean this as a player, completely divorced from the context of this game; you're very annoying. I don't think that your methods hold any weight as either alignment--they just make your play insufferable.
Please reconsider the way that you approach mafia, because it isn't fun to play with you when you play this way.

[Varsoon]

I'm sorry, but I never flip scum in this game.
Try again.

[Varsoon]

Hey Elbirn
Real talk
How much of the game have you read?

[Varsoon]

That's cool.
I'm willing to up the stakes and say that if RC flips town and I'm not confirmed come D2, ya'll can lynch me.
At least this game will be rid of the poison that is RC in that case and ya'll can focus on catching actual scum.
Here's the thing though
RC doesn't ever flip town here.

P-EDIT:
@Elbirn: Sweetness.
So join me on RC?
Or do you think it's worthwhile to hunt elsewhere and suss a bit more info out?

[Varsoon]

Cool.
Now vote yourself, RC.

[Varsoon]

Das fair.

I think I remember the site rules mentioning that a very large bold site rule was to treat other players with a baseline of respect but uh
It's not like RC cares to follow site rules.

[Varsoon]

Nibbui, have you actually read the entire game so far?
I want to lynch RC because, out of my scumreads, he's by far the scummiest.
Look at what he's made D1 into.

[Varsoon]

@Nibbui: Radiant's been a pox on the game and has driven town engagement way, way down with how they've played. Every day that we let him survive is giving him a free pass to do this again and again, all while he gets to enjoy subterfuge in the PTs that he would've never outed on his own and the powerups he's gotten from the minigame. Letting RC live any further makes it that much more difficult for town to get engaged and solve the game.

I do admit that I have been complicit in walling up against RC. What's frustrating is that when I tried doing anything that wasn't 1v1'ing him, he wouldn't shut up about it and kept trying to mudsling literally everything I did.

@Gamma: Then why are you still voting for me?
I liked your pre-RC posting a good deal and I think that it's much more likely that scum RC puts you and NSG in a hood with you as town rather than the other way around.

[Varsoon]

RC,
I challenge you to something that I am fairly certain you can't do.
I bet that you can't shut the heck up and stop posting.
I'll stop posting, too, and we'll let everything said up until now speak for itself.
I ensure you do not win such a bet
You loud
Petulant
Child

[Varsoon]

Like I get that your goal is to flood the thread and piss me off into responding to you over and over
but damn dude
Shut
the fuck
up

[Varsoon]

RC, your strategy of insisting this isn't IC play when I'm one of the most unconventional players on-site, so much so that my user title references that, is a bit weak.

You keep saying town!Varsoon doesn't play this way! Scum!Varsoon plays like this!
But when was the last time we were actually in a game together?
TAZ, and then what?
Your reference for how I play simply isn't there. You can insist and insist, but when you don't have a logical basis and proof for what you say, it's literally just you trying to be manipulative and lying to people.

[Varsoon]

You've completely floundered at providing any hard evidence from my posting as to why I'm scum.
Instead, you've resorted to lying, multiple times, and I've proven you as a liar, multiple times.
Your return strategy to that has been to flood the thread in hopes players don't actually read and see this,
but it's there.

[Varsoon]

@Gamma: You mean all the ones I could get from my abilities?
No.

Lynch me or kill me if you want my role to be outted in full like that.

[Varsoon]

and varsoon here's the thing about saying I'm the toxic one.

you know full well that you could never have won this 1v1 against me. there was never another outcome for you.

so you created this day phase for absolutely nothing.

Fuck you.

[Varsoon]

I actually was very excited for this game,
especially with the role I got.
RC's been making me hard want to replace out when replacing is a thing that I absolutely loathe as a mod.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

You'd just wiggle and writhe and work your way out of getting lynched on D2.
Fuck you.
You go down now.

[Varsoon]

You're still voting an IC even now and scrambling for excuses to justify it.
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Varsoon]

okay
and i said several times that if that was a universally agreed upon standard we could go fuck off and do something else not because I thought he was ever town but because it would save my energy
but varsoon did not pursue that option despite it being the best possible thing for town him so i'm ready to just kill him and killing him is really easy right now so.

When what I'm advocating for is literally a 1v1 between me (Varsoon's top scumread) and Varsoon, which is essentially the only way for town varsoon to get the W here

[Varsoon]

^ You trying to 'fuck off to do something else' is just you scrambling to survive.
It's funny that when I try to focus outside of you, you whine and whine and whine and make a big fuss about how I must be scum for it
But now you're here doing exactly the thing you thought was scummy.
You couldn't project harder even if you were an opto-mechanical device for displaying motion picture film

[Varsoon]

because Varsoon doesn't believe in shit. He doesn't believe in his scumread on me enough to push it apparently, certainly, even though he seems to think I'm obvious scum and am good enough to autowin if not dealt with. but what he does believe in doing is... being reasonable and protown.

Yawn.
So when I try to do anything else I'm scum
When I try to get you lynched I'm scum
But when you drag the game into a 20 page 1v1 you're town
And when you try to do anything else you're town.

Got it.

[Varsoon]

You keep ignoring the fact that my whole point is that you've made this game unbearable and, as scum, every day you survive is poison to the game state.
You keep ignoring that you're my highest confidence scumread.
There's no way I agree to just hanging out until D3 while you are still alive.
You're trying to give yourself wiggle room to maximize your role and influence over town.
No.
Fuck you.
Die.

[Varsoon]

Cool.
Eat the lynch.

[Varsoon]

@Nibbui: Wanna talk about it?
Because I'm flipping green here no matter how much RC spews filth and lies.
So if there's something I could to make it easier for you to read me,
turn me onto that.

[Varsoon]

I can't fathom why RC is so opposed to playing with some modicum of civility.
Seriously; you shouldn't want to lynch me here anyway, you should want to come to an accurate conclusion about my alignment.
Only scum cares about strongarming lynches.
Town cares about solving the game and coming to an unanimous decision on who scum is.

[Varsoon]

I'd like to convince everyone here that RC is scum, to see what I see, but if his play here alone doesn't do that for you, nothing I say will.
/shrugs.

[Varsoon]

You'd just wiggle and writhe and work your way out of getting lynched on D2.
Fuck you.
You go down now.

I'm not going another day with scum RC in the setup.
Dude's trying to buy himself a night to maximize his chances of survival.
No way am I going to let that pass, especially after seeing how much he's poisoned this game already and won the minigame.

It's almost like you don't read my posts and just post hyperbole in response to trick players who don't care to read or think for themselves, who are easily fooled by your put on confidence.

[Varsoon]

I mean we can talk, but so far I doubt there's anything you can say to change my mind honestly.

Even if you actually agreed now to wait until day 3, it wouldn't be towny because you're very close to a lynch already...

But let's see, do you think I'm wrong about you on something I said?

and I'm talking about the things I said, and not what Radiant said, because although we said similar and even equal things sometimes, we have different views about some of your actions.

then focus about what I said about you while talking to me please, and not what RC said.

I doubt there's much I could say to change your mind, either, but I really don't want to talk to RC anymore for reasons that should be evident.
I don't want to 'wait till a day' because that is something proposed by RC, who is scum. He's trying to do his best to set up for me being lynched, even if he goes down, so it's easier for his buddies to win.
I think that I should be judged on the merits of my play. I'm not really sure that you've read the entire game or all of my posts, so thinking I'm scum here doesn't feel like an informed position. :/

I don't think this battle is a personal one; that's a lie that RC has tried to create by mode of denial. I'm fine with you voting for either of us if it's an informed decision you're making and I don't take it as you 'taking sides'. In this game, I am town and I am trying to get my top scumread lynched. That's all this is.

I know that you want me to drop this, but what if I asked you to stop pushing a scumread you felt was definitely scum on D1? What if that scumread, you knew, had already pocketed a player with a triple vote and another good player as well? What if that scumread had proven they can just trounce town when it comes to minigames and getting powerups? Consider my position, is what I'm saying.

I'm trying to calm down, though. Frustration is hard-set in my meta. I can even link you to recent games where I was trying to work through it. It's an issue I have.
It's something I know RC would try to exploit.
I'm sorry for what I've been complicit in this D1.
I'm trying to guide us to the best chances we have of winning.

[Varsoon]

You keep accusing me of 'not making the effort to read you' and similar stuff that suggests that you think I'm town tunneling you while simultaneously asserting that I'm 100% scum.
Which is another good reason that you're scum, in case my list insofar hasn't done it for anyone.

Scum wouldn't make the effort to read me because they're scum.
Stop lying and making all these plays at "THIS IS WHAT VARSOON MEANS".
It's getting old.

[Varsoon]

I'm down with backing off from the game thread for awhile.
I think RC's play speaks for itself.

[Varsoon]

@Varsoon but I did read your posts Varsoon, really, I'm not just doing whatever Radiant say, if you acted otherwise during the 1v1, not only I wouldn't vote you, I would help you ignore Radiant calling for your lynch today. However, you claim is already a bit weird, and added to that there is the fact that you seemed a bit more willing to simply get Radiant lynched today instead of focusing on getting to IC-status and therefore being able to lynch Radiant right there.

Sorry if I'm wrong, but yeah this has developed in a choice that is hard to change.

You can dress it up any way you want, but you voting for me on D1 is still doing what Radiant Cowbells says and wants.

This should not be about how I acted, but about the game that both RC and I have laid down--both before and after our back and forth. I hold that RC's play has been absolutely indicative of scum.

As for my claim; I could have claimed literally anything if I was scum--why would I claim something so awkward that could easily be proven wrong as scum? It serves no purpose. My claim is true and I sincerely, absolutely HATE anyone who wants to remove me from this game solely based on my claim because I was very excited to play this game and enjoy this role.

I can NEVER get to IC status if Radiant just has me lynched and if you allow him to continue to poison the game, my IC status will not matter because you will all be so in his pocket.

[Varsoon]

that is an unfortunate set of 15s and a fortunate set of 15s

if we hammer varsoon really quickly does it go to elbirn by default

FUCK YOU
EAT SHIT\
I AM FUCKING LIVID YOU GARBAGE +EXCUSE FOR A FUCKING HUMAMN BEING

[Varsoon]

The fact that RC would suggest quickhammering before results are decided is ABSOLUTELY indicative of his alignment.
ONLY SCUM would want to neuter town coming to an informed decision

[Varsoon]

RC
For real.
Please stop.

[Varsoon]

I am trying
My best.
Please stop.

[Varsoon]

We can discuss that out of game, if you would like to.
I would appreciate it if you would not try to ruin the game for myself and others involved.

[Varsoon]

I'm town, Gamma.
I literally confirm myself as town or you lynch me.
Why would you ever want to take the risk otherwise?

[Varsoon]

dunno if lynching you as scum ruins the game for you I can't imagine you have much fun in mafia when you roll scum.

You can try to doctor this up as you playing hardball against scum but
Either one of two things is true:
1. You're scum and you know my alignment and you're intentionally, as you have admitted, playing in a way to bait me into incurring a ban
or
2. You're town and you don't know my alignment and when I've asked you, as I have multiple times, to stop playing in this way, you have ignored it and continue to play in a way to bait me into incurring a ban.

Either way, what you're doing is not in the best interest of town or of the game itself.

[Varsoon]

Please stop.

[Varsoon]

I know that I haven't been civil in the past in this game thread,
but I won't accept your abuse anymore.

[Varsoon]

No, RC.
Please stop.

[Varsoon]

There is a hard line between the two.
You have personally offended me more than once, and when I have asked you to stop, you have not.
Please stop.

If you truly do think that I am worth of a lynch solely based on my play in this game, please ground your arguments for my lynch within the play that I have made in this game.

[Varsoon]

I would appreciate it if you would also engage with my posts that happened before this 1v1 that you have forced, as you have largely ignored them, and, if you're right about my alignment, then there should be alignment-indicative content there as well.

I feel that your arguments against me so far largely hinge on our interactions--interactions which have been sullied by your abuse and intentional insult to drive me towards an irrational reaction.

Otherwise, your largest point against me is my claim, a claim which is easily proven, and, if not, I am willing to be lynched for.

I do care if I have personally offended you. I apologize if any of my posting has personally offended you. I have been trying to engage with this game first and foremost, and my frustrated responses to your posts are largely due to your continued taunting and outright lying about what I would do as town and scum, as well as your misrepresentation of my play and our exchanges, which seeks to capitalize on a playerbase that is largely disaffected and does not want to read our back and forth to make an informed decision.

I will not make any judgment calls on you as a person. The way that you have approached this game, however, is wholly unacceptable and beyond what I would ever allow in my own moderation.

[Varsoon]

You still have yet to produce a meta-based argument for why I am bad as scum.

On the contrary, the only recent completed scumgame in my meta is in Boundaries of Reality, where my team won.
According to your own metrics where all that matters is a win, that would indicate that I am actually quite good.
So, once again, you're literally lying.

[Varsoon]

Your posts throughout the game stand as testament otherwise.

I ask that you re-evaluate the facts of the game.

[Varsoon]

If your argument solely hinges on the idea that I wouldn't let my top scumread, who clearly has a large influence over the game, and is mod-confirmed to have a powered-up role, survive another day, it's a weak argument.

Try again.

@MOD: Thank you.
I'll refrain from expletives and insults from the rest of the game.
I apologize for my behavior so far.

[Varsoon]

What informs the logic that I don't talk to you like a top scumread?
What's your proof for how I talk to my top scumreads?
In the Newbie game, Zooborns, while incorrect, I held a D1 scumread on Doughboy. Our back and forth got very heated, and I believe that you'll find a lot of the rhetoric I use there is similar, if not identical, to the rhetoric I have put forth here.

I did not get Doughboy lynched, and I am glad for that, as he turned out to be town and I realized that after my own re-evaluation.

I have been taking time to think about how you would play this as both town and scum, and I feel as though your play here is far more likely to come from scum than town.

As for 'people dont convince their top scumread that they are town and tell them to look at a different section of the game', people aren't me, and my rationale for doing so is twofold:
1. It would provide a moment where we wouldn't be 1v1ing in a way that has clearly been a detriment to town's capability to keep up with and engage in the game
2. It would provide associative information that will be useful for when you flip scum.

In the case that you ACTUALLY did flip town (which is still a possibility that I do consider because, unlike you, I don't have 100% reads confidence), that extra effort to sort out the game otherwise would be appreciated.

I assure you that I have been very frustrated with you this game and I would appreciate it if you would not call into question the validity of whether or not I have been angry, hurt, etc.

[Varsoon]

Can you not possibly consider that
1. I am town.
2. I am frustrated because you repeatedly call me scum, insult me, and at every turn when I've tried to do anything in this game after the point that you voted for me, you've painted it as scum play.

It's not a matter of respecting your play.
It's a matter of knowing that you are literally wrong and trying to deduce why you'd be so adamant about your incorrect read on me and becoming frustrated in the aggressiveness of your push, especially when said push is hyperbolic, manipulative, and misrepresentative of my play.

[Varsoon]

Alright, but can you understand why posts like

I don't see this level of frustration coming from town you.

Make me feel that way?

[Varsoon]

It's a denial of the validity of how I feel regardless of your alignment.

And that's the thing, RC. I think you're far more likely to say something like this as scum rather than as town, because you don't see it as an egregious offense if you're scum. You don't see your behavior as toxic if you're scum. For you, if you're scum, it's just playing the game; winning at any cost, because that's all that matters.

[Varsoon]

If you weren't intermittently flying in and calling me 100% confirmed scum and going on random rants against me I would infer from the rest of your ISO that you're townreading me.

I haven't used the phrase '100% confirmed scum' anywhere in this game, so...
No?

I'm doing what I can to get you lynched, as nothing indicates to me that you're town here.
Why do you think that I am town reading you?
Is it because I know that I've been wrong when I've had this level of reads confidence before?
No, that's just honesty.

P-EDIT:
There's a hard difference between taking a moral highground and apologizing and trying to move beyond what I have admitted are insulting and inflammatory posts.
Once again, I apologize for my behavior earlier this game. It was unwarranted, unprofessionally, and even if I was frustrated by anything you did, I should not have taken out my frustration on you.

I'm sorry.

[Varsoon]

I'm justifying and standing by why I still have a vote on you and why I still believe you to be the ideal lynch today.

Realistically, one of us has to go.
Too many players are hard lurking as a result of the noise that our 1v1 created.
I am positive that this was your intention, as you have self-admitted to 'setting up your buddies to be in strong positions'.

[Varsoon]

My posts aren't just for you, RC.
When I post, I'm posting for everyone.

I know, I specifically mentioned you and my perceptions of you both seriously and in jest at the start of the game, but I had not considered that it would be taken personally. I was hoping to prod you to be more active in the game thread, as you had been largely absent, which was something that I had never seen you do in a game before. It was not my intention for those posts to be anything but a prod to get you engaged.

I'm sorry.

[Varsoon]

What I find baffling is that you insisted on a 1v1 with me despite posting this:

I'm not trying to interact with him. I think that my interacting with him is the single least productive thing I could do and also bad for the gamestate.
I can read him better off how he interacts with others than me anyway because there's tons of baggage with regards to his me interactions.

Your play makes no sense if you hold Post 308 as being true.
Town!you should understand this.
Scum!you posts the above to posture and avoid engaging with me before realize that you can mire the game in a 40-page 1v1 and people will just sheep you because you've built enough trust via PT interaction.

Spoiler: Our early interactions, FWIW

Firebringer I just wanted you to know how much your continued support has meant to me through all these years and I've thought about you from the sidelines but until this moment I've never really realized just how much I want to be with you.

Would you do me the honour of a dance?

Honor doesn't have a 'u' in it.
I also think it's wild that you intentionally acknowledge FB but not the two-vote wagon there or his interactions.
This sort of interaction reads really awkward but also strikes me as you not being the same align.
I take back my gun shot earlier. I'd shoot you now.
But, nah, really, waiting for you to WOW US ALL with your PERFECT READS, you GOLDEN GOD OF MAFIA.
You're off to a GREAT START that I couldn't possibly levy any valid criticism against, and even if I tried, it'd just be me being a HATER.
Wouldn't be surprised if you picked yourself, you narcissist.

Firebringer I just wanted you to know how much your continued support has meant to me through all these years and I've thought about you from the sidelines but until this moment I've never really realized just how much I want to be with you.

Would you do me the honour of a dance?

Someone is being unfaithful.......

See, this is why RC's post is so egregious to me;
I know that Nico will engage with it for fun factor
So it just drives the fluffposting
And distances further from the game at hand.
Don't fall for this nonsense, Nico.

I don't think Sakura Hana will mind. I'll ask her.

Please stop this.
Play the game at hand.
If you have another post after this where you continue to not game-engage (especially if it's baiting Nico for fluff), I'm going to tunnel you until either one of us is dead.

They do

Kiinda townvibing mutant here

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

Really have come to expect more than the nebulous reads and fluffposting from you.
Step it up.

@Radiant Cowbells: Can you go more into why, though? (why townvibing mutant)

Varsoon is by far my top scumread for the record.

I am going to continue to ignore questions.

Then you can die.

varsoon wants to lynch me for out of game reasons regardless of his alignment.

Sure is cool that it's fine for YOU to leverage OUT OF GAME REASONS to wipe aside any sort of legitimate case I have against you.

You know if you're scum this game, I will never forgive this shit.

[Varsoon]

Please stop lying.
I am not trying to convince you to townread me.
I am trying to get you lynched while shutting down the arguments that you have made for me being scum.
When you say 'Varsoon is scum because [lie]'
And I explain how that's a lie, literally wrong, etc.
I am not trying to convince YOU of anything.

[Varsoon]

@Gamma: Your insistence on scumreading me here is unsettling.
Context is incredibly important--what game are you referring to?

[Varsoon]

Cool, so you admit that's why you've been lying all game.

I'd also appreciate it if you didn't characterize my responses to you as a tantrum.
It's belittling to my voice as a player and diminishes the value of my responses as evidence towards alignment--something you should care about if you actually are town.

[Varsoon]

I know that you often rely on bold confidence fooling weak players, but it's just a cover up for your lack of supporting evidence and casing.

So, no, I've gotten over it.

[Varsoon]

I'm just asking that you tool your language towards being less incendiary and marginalizing.

[Varsoon]

Unable the read the last 20 pages right now. Not sure if I'm going to have time tomorrow either.

I'm a delayed IC and even after claiming at L-1, Firebringer, RC, and Gamma have not unvoted me.
NK15 took the claim seriously and without skepticism and immediately unvoted.
Nibbui voiced lots of skepticism and seems to be on the side of RC.
I still hold that RC is scum for insisting on a 1v1 they knew was unhealthy to the game state, then lying to players like you who either can't read to catch up or don't want to.
RC won the first minigame in about 20 minutes, which reeks of collusion.
The moderator has since made collusion against the game rules.
Second minigame winner is between either Elbirn or me, JJH is still figuring that out.

My suggestion is that we lynch RC.

[Varsoon]

Also, Firebringer is a triple voter and claims to have no idea how it happened.
RC has claimed a PT with NSG and Gamma Emerald, with a scumread on NSG for behavior in the PT.

[Varsoon]

Well, I think Gamma would've backed off and has no real good reason to stay on my wagon.
Otherwise, I'm not comfortable with the relative absence of many of the slots.
I'd probably be more critical of NK15 and NSG if RC wasn't biasing me hard there right now, too.

P-EDIT:
Oh that's a ton of posts.
And nah, I'm not claiming it's a D7 IC,
I'm claiming it's a delayed IC.
If it doesn't happen by D3 or whenever everyone thinks makes sense, they can lynch me by then.

[Varsoon]

Also we've been over the best friends thing.
I called it out as a likely lie because I knew it was unlikely due to me being IC.

[Varsoon]

Congrats on winning the minigame, Elbirn.
I wanted it hard but it'll be k.

[Varsoon]

He initially claimed he had pretty good idea that it'd be before day 3

But then when I said ok so we ignore you til day 3 and if you're not confirmed by then, he went absolutely all in on me.

Doesn't make sense with the role, conftown would be more interested in proving themselves than fighting me. But even in the face of being lynched he refuses because he's not confirmed. Also the odds that Varsoon whose only shot at surviving day 1 is to claim IC and that he ALSO suggested me and Fire were best friends? (Hint: conftown don't assume others are also conftown)

So yeah just Lynch him he's always scum

Your logic makes no sense here:
"He can confirm by Day 3
So we should lynch him Day 1!"

Whereas my logic of:
"I can be confirmed by Day 3,
But we should lynch my highest scumread before then."
Makes plenty sense.

You're completely twisting the fact of the matter.
You proposed treating me like I wasn't even in the game until confirmed, which is pretty scum-motivated.
You're also making the mental jump that, somehow, me going all-in on you is contrary to me being a delayed IC.
It's almost as if how I push or don't push you doesn't influence my role confirming or not.
And you're trying your hardest to lynch an IC and get away with it.

The defense you have of yourself that I could just eat the lynch and you'd be turbo-lynched in response is still committing to a 1 for 1 trade of scum for an IC, which is much better than the alternative if you're scum.

It actually makes absolutely no sense for you to push me like this if you're town
Because like you said
You can just wait until D3.

[Varsoon]

But you proved yourself scum when you didn't go for it so why would I bother giving you til day 3??

I fail to see how this proves me as scum.
If anything, wouldn't scum WANT to be more survivalistic and take you up on that offer?
If anything, wouldn't scum WANT you to continue to be in the game to drive player apathy in the way you have?

I also don't buy your role as a town role whatsoever, ftr.
The fact you kept the firebringer thing hidden and EVEN TOLD FIREBRINGER TO HOLD OFF is incredibly scummy.

[Varsoon]

I don't think it's all that beyond the scope of town to go
"Oh that guy claimed IC, I'll take it at face value and unvote for now."
That's the play I'd make if someone at L-1 on D1 claimed delayed IC.

[Varsoon]

It's literally something that sorts itself.
/shrug

[Varsoon]

hold off for a bit fire plspls

This is indicator that RC was ready to hard-push a lynch with only 1/3 support instead of 1/2 and claim it's a town thing to do.

The fact that the extra votes were played as some secret but it's clear from here that RC knew is indicator that he's scum.

[Varsoon]

Hiding secret votes like that to leverage on a D1 lynch is a scum strategy.
Depending on RC's flip, we'll also get info if Firebringer was lying, too.
In fact, depending on RC's flip, we get to confirm quite a lot of mechanical things about the setup that could hard-clear or condemn some players.

[Varsoon]

My assumption, though, is that Firebringer really actually did not know and that RC has kept it a secret and was intending to use FB's vote to force a quick hammer that would then reflect poorly on FB.

[Varsoon]

Mmm.
And RC didn't tell you anything about the vote in your PT and didn't try to co-ordinate anything there regarding it?

[Varsoon]

Not really, RC.

Never have I said "Lynch RC because the IC demands it."
Never.

Please stop lying to everyone.

[Varsoon]

Cool, guess I'm incredible terrible at mafia and gamethrowing because I want to get my top scumread lynched.

A+.

[Varsoon]

Cool, guess I'm incredible terrible at mafia and gamethrowing because I want to get my top scumread lynched.

A+.

You been implying a townread on rc for a long time.
You can’t have it both ways.

You people keep saying this.

I literally am not.
I've been OUTRIGHT saying that I am not infallible, and that there's a very slim chance that RC flips town here, and that I am ready for the consequences of what happens if that is the case, but to counterbalance that
I AM VERY CONFIDENT THAT RADIANT COWBELLS IS SCUM.
I HAVE PROVIDED REASON AND REASON AND REASON WHY.
I HAVE STRICKEN DOWN RADIANT COWBELL'S LIES LEFT AND RIGHT.

So please stop lying about this implying townread rubbish.
I'm not asking for it both ways.
Being civil and acknowledging room for error =/= a townread
And you trying to twist it that way, RC, is just you doing anything
ANYTHING
to try to justify lynching a claimed IC.

[Varsoon]

We've literally already been over this.
Just read the game.

[Varsoon]

what Varsoon is doing right now is somewhere between fucking stupid

Varsoon is fucking stupid

You've been asked, directly, by the moderator to stop.

Please stop.

I'm not going to post in this game thread any more until this is resolved.
Interacting with you further is detrimental to the game-state, both for the game itself and for town.

[Varsoon]

Please unvote, Nibbui, Firebringer, and Gamma.
I will literally confirm myself as town.
There is no reason to vote for me.

[Varsoon]

It is very difficult for me to comprehend how anyone would want to rush a D1 lynch on a role that can confirm itself.

[Varsoon]

If you're voting for me, I would like for you to be able to justify why you feel the need to lynch me on Day 1 over literally anyone else when my role confirms itself.

It's cool if you don't believe me, I'm not asking for you to believe me, I'm asking for why you would justify it when my role literally confirms itself.

Firebringer.
I really want to play this game.
If you lynch me out of this game, I will not get to play it beyond this horrible day 1.
If you lynch me, it gives Radiant Cowbells a pass for every horrible, awful thing he's done.
I don't want to go into how it's going to make me feel, because I know someone's going to write that off as AtE, and if they do, I am liable to write and do things harmful to myself and other people.
I'd like for us to just be able to work towards an actual victory this game and I don't see that happening with me lynched on Day 1.

[Varsoon]

Lynch me Day 2 or Day 3 if I'm not confirmed, that's fine.
I literally will even vote myself in that scenario, if that's what you want.

[Varsoon]

Furthermore, Firebringer, it is also hard for me to understand why you would be complicit in lynching someone with 1/3 of votes there rather than a majority.
I would appreciate it most if you would unvote and allow town to come to an actual consensus.

[Varsoon]

I know, which is why I am not going to share how I would feel if I were to be lynched on D1 here.
Because I know someone would assume it's an AtE and not genuine.
That's all.

[Varsoon]

I don't mind if people twist the previous statement though.
I mean, I do, but not nearly as much.

[Varsoon]

Real talk, FB, what's the play here?
I feel cornered by someone who is obv!scum to me and just powerwolfing.
A majority of the town players are straight absent,
And it doesn't even require a majority vote to end me
When I lucked out and got a role that should shoe me in as someone not lynchable.

[Varsoon]

Is it really too much to ask to make it to D2 or D3?

[Varsoon]

I think that Gamma's push on me lacks entirely the amount of consideration and thoughtfulness that Gamma gives to wagons when he's town.
I'm not comfortable with Nibbui's decision to vote me here, either, but at least it looks more genuinely parsed out, if a bit overexplained.

I do think that at least one or two scum is absolutely absent. I know that several of our players are straight on V/LA.

Scum's not going to entirely commit to my wagon regardless because I will flip what I've claimed. That's why people's call of NK15 as scum due how they've handled my claim holds some water.

Otherwise, the huge problem for me right now is that a majority of the players have been absent for a large part of D1 and I haven't seen them have substantial interactions out of what I've already commented on early game.

Firebringer, I assure you that I whole-heartedly believe that RC is scum in this game. It annoys the every-living-hell out of me that there's a chance he could be town and this toxic to the game, as I've never seen a town player do this amount of damage before, but I am not voting RC for policy reasons. I'm voting RC because no town player lies nearly as much as they have, no town player acknowledges that a 1v1 will cause someone in that 1v1 to catch a ban and it'd be toxic to gamestate but insists on it anyway, and no town player creates a secret network of PTs where they organize a hidden triple vote on another player, then refuses to back down upon a delayed IC claim. That's not town play to me. That's scum play. Combine this with RC's early fluff-posting and very nebulous play that's completely contrary to how RC plays as town and how when I called him out on it, he immediately went into 1v1 mode. That's scum play.

[Varsoon]

Please unvote, Nibbui, Firebringer, and Gamma.
I will literally confirm myself as town.
There is no reason to vote for me.

There's no reason for you to target RC like you did either

RC isn't a delayed IC.
I also did not initiate the 1v1 with RC.
I prodded them to be more engaged with the game as a whole, and, honestly, they've failed to even do that.

[Varsoon]

That's fine.

How did RC approach you in the PT, by the way?

[Varsoon]

I'm sorry I don't play in the way that you pigeonhole roles to play? What do you want? For me to conform to playing like all the other roulette IC roles ever created? It's a completely moot point that RC posits because the dude will stop at nothing to get me lynched.

I also don't know what you're referring to about considering something before now--do you mean the possibility that RC, as town, is actually this toxic?
If so, I considered it, but I still think he's far more likely to be scum.
I've also largely banished the thought because the dude would've caught a permaban a long time ago if that were the case.

[Varsoon]

Like real talk, I've had a VERY STRICT no blacklist policy in every game that I've moderated, but if RC flips town here, I'm never allowing him in another game of mine.

[Varsoon]

@Gamma: How aren't you bowing to his will when you're sheeping him while voting a claimed delayed IC?

Shouldn’t that not be roleblockable tbh

It's not.

^ Looks a lot like RB fishing, tbh.

Yeah why would a delayed IC want to survive another day?
Gamma, you're so deep in RC's pockets that I'm surprised your userimage hasn't changed to some of RC's loose change.

@Gamma: Then why are you still voting for me?
I liked your pre-RC posting a good deal and I think that it's much more likely that scum RC puts you and NSG in a hood with you as town rather than the other way around.

I'm town, Gamma.
I literally confirm myself as town or you lynch me.
Why would you ever want to take the risk otherwise?

^ At this point I start to consider actually WHY Gamma would want to take the risk otherwise.
Occam's Razor, it's scum.

@Gamma: Your insistence on scumreading me here is unsettling.
Context is incredibly important--what game are you referring to?

^ No surprise, next post I mention him I specifically say that the insistence is unsettling.

Well, I think Gamma would've backed off and has no real good reason to stay on my wagon.

I think that Gamma's push on me lacks entirely the amount of consideration and thoughtfulness that Gamma gives to wagons when he's town.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Varsoon]

It's one thing to see RC make literal false hyperbole about a player, but you, Gamma?
That's not even in your wheelhouse.

[Varsoon]

I don't even think you have the excuse of having not read or not been present or having been snowed by RC's lies.
Because you've been dropping posts fairly consistent throughout.
So I'm just curious where this is coming from?
Justify your position, man.

[Varsoon]

[SNIP]

This looked like justifying a townread on me

As it turns out, apparently every time I voice disapproval with someone's play it 'looks like justifying a townread' or some rubbish.

I'll be back when varsoon and rc stop going back and forth

I'm done with it.

I'd have a better answer if content in this game existed that wasn't the two of you going at it

I think NK15 reads tonally fucky and I actually don't like his implication that you and Varsoon is SvS. Because while I could absolutely see you agreeing to cross bus if you rolled scum together, I just...the way yall have been you'd have to both be literal sociopaths to keep this up for so long. So uh basically he postured into a position where he could easily take either side? His unvote off varsoon kinda sucked.

NicoRobin probably needs to go if they're lurk-scum meta holds as much water as some of you have said

Gamma has been pinging my radar for a bit now because he doesnt really...do anything. He makes some pointless asides, commentary, and witty remarks, but theres not really any actual content or analysis. Hes been going with the flow voting with you against varsoon and that's about it. I think varsoon also made some good points about him earlier.

I do think there's actually a really solid amount of content to judge from pre-1v1 in juxtaposition with how people treated the 1v1. It's better than most D1s.

NicoRobin sorts itself by D2, though. If they're really busy IRL, they should just V/LA, but given that it's the end of the semester and ramp into the holidays, I think it's a bit unfair to hold people accountable solely for lurking. What about Nico's content that is here bothers you?

Gamma doing nothing is exactly why I have a vote there. I've come to expect more content and analysis from Gamma as of recently. I think, if anyone, he should be held accountable to engaging with the game a lot more, as, like I've said, he's clearly present (unlike other slots) but not offering much else.

[Varsoon]

@Nibbui: I'm not going to repeat the play I've laid down here ever again, in this game or any other.
I went all-in on a 1v1 that ended up frustrating me more than any other game has. I apologize for both the 40 pages I've been complicit in putting everyone through as well as the impassioned and cruel things that I have said.

I still don't think people's reasons for voting me are validated beyond policy or believing in something that's untrue.
I also don't think that my confirmation of IC makes RC a must-lynch slot. RC's play is what should be judged, not their juxtaposition to me as confirmed town.

The game's plenty playable--don't prop the narrative that it's not. Folks are busy with finals, holidays, etc. and, yes, coming back to a game that's bloated 40 pages with a largely toxic 1v1 isn't something anyone wants to hop into during those times, but it's no excuse.

Once again, there's a hard difference between believing I am IC and trusting in that and thinking RC must be scum. The two ideas are vaguely related but each exists independently.

It's more than my pride--it's my faith in the mafiascum players as capable of making rational and informed decisions. It's violent and inciting rhetoric winning over actual casework and the conceit of decency.
That's why I've tried to take a hard step away from my entrenchment, because it's not doing the gamestate any favors and we've got about 3 days to figure this one out before deadline.

[Varsoon]

I'd take NK15 over Nico at this moment.
I don't think Nico fakes taking something personally as scum here.
Reads as genuine Nico to me, but, like I said, Nico needs to engage and play come D2 when they should, realistically, be more free to do so.

[Varsoon]

Same.

[Varsoon]

Gamma, do you still think that the series of posts I highlighted doesn't reflect progression from my early townread on you to coming to suspect you for being on my wagon without much in the way of Gamma-original rationale for it?

If so, why?

[Varsoon]

Can you pull quotes that illustrate that double standard?
I know I caught flak but I think that was largely due to RC not having distance from our 1v1.
Now that he does, do you think it's still across the line for him to push NR like that?

[Varsoon]

For when I stopped 1v1ing to try to push Nico for content?

[Varsoon]

From looking back on it:
Nibbui softs a better reason to believe Nico is scum but still hasn't divulged it (as far as I am aware) despite hinting at it again.
NK15 said some backwards logic that somehow led to a vote on RC there that everyone questioned.
Firebringer called it a vanity push.
RC called it a lazy counterwagon.
MutantDevle saw it as backing out of a 1v1 where no one supported me.

Spoiler: What I'm pulling from

a lazy counterwagon.

It's not as lazy as you may think it is.

That is all I'm going to say for now.

ur NR push is bad and i agree with RC that it doesn't make any sense to focus on Nico when she has literally done nothing.
it is a vanity push.

and i am not clear on why you want to sort her slot.

Actually, these switches off RC towards a lurker lynch is very suspicious from the ones who advocate it - and it does make a scum RC ... more likely.

It's not coincidence that the moment I stopped floundering and started mustering my energy to fuck Varsoon up he put his vote on a lazy counterwagon.

But more on that later, I have better stuff to do rn

Yeah it's not like I mentioned and voted Nico earlier and that people largely don't feel like voting you right now,
It's not like it's clear that if I continue voting you, you're not going to do anything but OMGUS me and be petulant,
Yeah it's for sure not the case that I'm sheeping my highest townread on a read that I believe in and put stock in their confidence in.
Naw, couldn't be that.

I'm at a real loss as to how you think the push against Nico is lazy or a counterwagon.

I don't know about anyone else but I personally read this as "nobody seems to support me in this 1v1 so I'm going to back out".

[Varsoon]

Can you pull quotes that illustrate that double standard?

[Varsoon]

I feel like, especially after I swapped to vote Gamma, Gamma 180ing on RC feels manipulative to me especially.
Like to get me to follow back there and drop back into 1v1 mode.
I dunno.
Maybe not?
Is that just me being really cynical?

[Varsoon]

So how does the differences in other people's reactions make RC likelier to be scum here?

[Varsoon]

So you're saying that one of Firebringer or Mutant is scum with RC?

I don't think FB and RC can be scum together unless the extra votes FB got can't function in LYLO.

[Varsoon]

So why are you going RC over Mutant here, then?

[Varsoon]

I feel like, especially after I swapped to vote Gamma, Gamma 180ing on RC feels manipulative to me especially.
Like to get me to follow back there and drop back into 1v1 mode.
I dunno.
Maybe not?
Is that just me being really cynical?

[Varsoon]

^ This especially when you could've vote-landed on Mutant instead.

[Varsoon]

Why's Maria scum no matter?
They've been v/la and completely absent on site afaik

[Varsoon]

I don't really think Nico gives us very much, as a flip, here.

[Varsoon]

Could be the case for 1/2 the players here, though.
A scum flip from anyone would be good.

[Varsoon]

she doesnt post much as scum

She's also on V/LA and working on very important end-of-the-year schoolwork.
If she's still absolutely absent on D2, maybe this criticism holds more water.

[Varsoon]

So here's the deal.
I'm inclined to believe, with how this triple vote thing has shaked out every time it's come up, that there's at least once scum between Firebringer and RC.
It just doesn't strike me as town on town interactions, collusion, etc.
I think that RC's the better lynch of the two though.
The problem is that I'm worried if I return to RC-voting and casing, everything goes back to being really, really bad for everyone.
UNVOTE:

So I think what I'll do is basically
if no one else minds,
I'm going to sit out.
I have intent to hammer RC if RC is put up to L-1
But otherwise, I'm not going to cast my vote or make another 1v1 happen there.
Does that make sense?

[Varsoon]

I don't like how FB tried to play like he didn't know his triple vote was a thing
like he clearly knew, since he has to post in a certain way to trigger it
unless that's a lie
I dunno.

[Varsoon]

Why'd you act like you didn't know about the triple hammer before when using it on me?

[Varsoon]

So why do you think RC is town, then, for forcing a weird restriction, PT, and triple vote on you?

[Varsoon]

WIFOM.

[Varsoon]

Nah, if I was a lyncher I'd play low to the ground and claim a cop guilty D2.

Even with distance, I think RC's a very high yield flip for us today.
VOTE: Gamma

I'm fine with Gamma though.

[Varsoon]

Chibi, where did you learn that fact about Elbirn?
UNVOTE:
I never saw that mentioned anywhere in the thread elsewhere.

[Varsoon]

Right

Elbirn wanna use that second Lynch on fire if the first one is used?

Mmmm fires a tougher sell for me cuz I think hes just a silly willy walnut head

We'll also need more support there in all likelihood

In fact I'm just gonna stop being cute about it, I'm talking about literally a second lynch, not a vig shot or anything. My minigame role gives me a 1 per game use of idkwhattocallit, the game thread stays open at night and we can lynch again.

I feel like using it asap because reasons

Oh, nevermind, I literally had tunnel vision at the time.

VOTE: Gamma

[Varsoon]

People who I don't expect but are almost certainly profiting off of my exchange with RC for 500, please.

[Varsoon]

Hey, RC, now we can be ban buddies.

[Varsoon]

Real talk, though, I am sorry for responding to you in the ways I did when I was frustrated.

[Varsoon]

I know that probably doesn't mean much to you until postgame or whatever, but I did want to extend apology sooner rather than later.

[Varsoon]

New Avatar; New Attitude

[Varsoon]

VOTE: NK15
We're running out of time.

[Varsoon]

I recall liking Maria's early posting, but I might be getting things mixed up.
Short of it is that I've got more reasons to pick NK15 here.

[Varsoon]

Oh
Pft
Easy solve
VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

RC can make day neighborhoods with people, right?
Who all has claimed that they need a PT to power up?
MariaR was one of them
And they claimed getting that PT would make them deathproof or something along those lines.
But RC has specifically put Gamma, NSG, and Firebringer into PTs instead.
Seems pretty obvious to me, unless anyone else wants to claim PT-making powers or having been put in a PT?

[Varsoon]

Yo, homie, you've been lobbying to lynch who all day?
1. Nico who has been V/LA for actual reasons, dropped a huge town-tell, and is still not here.
2. A delayed IC claim
3. A person who claimed they'd become deathproof but you continued to avoid powering them up because ???

If anyone's pushes don't make sense, it's yours.

[Varsoon]

I don't townread you.
I never have townread you in this game.

Gamma, you're saying YOU set up the NSG/RC/Gamma hood?
I thought that RC had claimed it and had said he set it up to get you and NSG to sort each other out.
Why didn't you make a hood with the person who claimed it'd make them DEATHPROOF?

[Varsoon]

I'm sorry, I'm under the impression that RC's been creating ALL the hoods here.

I also don't know when you and FB actually had your hood made though I figure it was by the first vote on me where you told him to back off of it.
Was that before Maria's claim?

[Varsoon]

I disagree and your flip will prove it one way or another anyway.

[Varsoon]

Gross.

[Varsoon]

But yeah you got me RC, I'm clearly chainsawing my buddies here.

[Varsoon]

So RC's hood with FB was a pre-game one, too?
Why'd he let me go along with thinking it was set up during the day phase?

[Varsoon]

Look at this dude lobby for lynch so hard
"Oh all the people I WAS DOUBTING AND SCUMREADING
Ya'll are town haha help me lynch varsoon pls
please guys
please
Now that I am threatened
Please guys"

[Varsoon]

you're not a threat to me. everyone in this game knows that town!you doesn't pose a threat to scum!me. i'd keep you to endgame and lynch you in lylo to make you suffer for being annoying.

Want you to know that this kind of posting borders on abusive.

honestly at this point I think Elbirn's lyncher speculation was right on the money because I can see Varsoon submitting as one of his roles "person who literally hates radiantcowbells"

Want you to know that this is a transparent grab at WIFOMing Elbirn into voting me.

[Varsoon]

it's not abusive. i am not required to protect your fragile ego as part of my posting when I'm stating something that literally any person in this game besides you would recognize as a fact.

This is also abusive.

dunno if you went in a room with nadal and federer and someone said that you were the worst tennis player in that room would you be offended? seems to me like you would.

It's almost as if this scenario is entirely different and you're coming up with reasons to justify being cruel to another human being.

[Varsoon]

Like I get it.
This is how you play Mafia
Nothing personal, kid
How cool.

[Varsoon]

And I'm not frustrated right now.
Just because I'm not lobbing insults at you doesn't mean I'm claiming some high ground; outing my abuser is not a moralistic power play.
I'm still pushing you because you're scum.
I just want you to know that those posts are abusive and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop and tool your rhetoric towards game-specific terms.

P-EDIT: Yeah, it's what I figure, too, FB.
That's why I said it's highly unlikely both of you are town here.
Also lol RC lyin' again--the last person he'd add would be me.

[Varsoon]

That's not the part of the post I take offense to.
Using 'everyone' to leverage the idea that I am a bad player is one thing that'd skirt the line here, but saying that I'm so annoying that scum-you'd keep me to LYLO, when coupled with that, isn't really something that I'd qualify as game-specific rhetoric.

Also, you were perfectly willing to let me live while I wasn't voting for you, so maybe you were just telling the truth on being scum there, too.

[Varsoon]

I don't know why you keep trying to make this some moral thing.
I'd also appreciate it if you'd stop trying to bring ego and insist on what I think and feel.

I scumread you. That's why I'm voting you.
That's it.

[Varsoon]

I'm voting you because you're scum.

Please leave personal threats out of the game sphere.

[Varsoon]

Attacking someone personally is not a justified response to being attacked.
I've learned that firsthand this game and have since apologized for it.
I would appreciate it if you could focus solely on game-specific rhetoric.

[Varsoon]

It is somewhat of a concern to me that you saw my early posts in the game as personally provocative, but do not see insistently refraining that someone else isn't a good enough player to get you lynched (and that everyone agrees) or having a fragile ego as insulting.

Furthermore, it's hard to think you aren't being intentionally manipulative when you positioned my own comments as personal attacks on you in order to justify a 1v1 on me.

These two points, combined, make me fairly sure that the kinds of manipulation you are performing in this game are scum-motivated.

[Varsoon]

Same thing I've been saying for days by the way

If Varsoon is town who is going to be confirmed why does he not wait to be confirmed and use that confirmation to lynch me?

My confirmation only confirms me as town.
Your scum play throughout the day phase is what confirms you as scum.
You, yourself, are the one who's been insisting that my IC could be very delayed, as a reason to lynch me,
Which indicates that this isn't a defense that town-you would ever take as reasonable.
You've proven you're thinking from a scum PoV.

[Varsoon]

Follow the logic here:

If town, RC's complaint about my claim is that it potentially delays my IC confirmation to day 7.
If town, though, that's no defense for RC to say 'just lynch me when you are confirmed as IC'.

As scum, though, RC using the delayed IC confirmation to day 7 as a rationale for pushing my lynch NOW before I even get a single shot at it makes plenty of sense.
As scum, RC saying 'Just lynch me when Varsoon confirms' makes plenty of sense if he thinks my IC confirm won't even come out during the rest of the game.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon u started the 1v1

Eeeh, did I?

I know I taunted RC because I (rightfully so) realized it was far more likely the dude was interacting in PTs and wasn't posting in thread, which was a huge red flag for me, but he ALSO wasn't coming to any really strong informed reads from those PTs (another red flag). I voted him for being absent and nebulous. RC then made it into a huge 1v1 from what I remember.

Also there's this:

you didn't actually want to 1v1.

When what I'm advocating for is literally a 1v1 between me (Varsoon's top scumread) and Varsoon, which is essentially the only way for town varsoon to get the W here

[Varsoon]

You yourself said that you were pretty likely to be conftown by day 3

You're not playing like that statement was anything other than bullshit

You're the only one who has ever played like it hasn't been the case.

[Varsoon]

I'm not asking as RadiantCowbells the mafia player

I'm asking as RadiantCowbells the person

And in a situation like this I would do the same for you

Yeah that's cool use out-of-game appeals
not like that's against site-wide rules too.

[Varsoon]

The RC I know would re-evaluate and come to a proper read on actual scum instead of insisting on a contentless death-tunnel on town.

Yeah this post makes it fairly clear that I'd expect town RC to re-evaluate and Scum RC to continue to death-tunnel me
Then RC insisted on doing that so
Dude's scum.

[Varsoon]

Presume you're town. Why does scum-rc give a triple vote to anyone but a scumbuddy?

Role as written only works with town.
I've made that role before.

[Varsoon]

If you think that's an out of game appeal

You think that I'm town

Not really.
I think you're scum willing to do anything (even provoke a ban) to get me lynched.

[Varsoon]

Town doesn't browbeat town by offering not to lynch them in return for being townread.

[Varsoon]

@RC: You literally provoked me, even after I asked you to stop, multiple times, and my response culminated in catching a signup ban, so
Yes?

@FB: I'm just explaining why I think my top scumread is scum.
I'm not posting any expletives, swears, or attacks on RC's character.
If my casing itself is too aggressive of play to be considered civil, I'll back off.
I want other people to consider my points, too, so I'm not keen on walling up against RC again.

[Varsoon]

It is somewhat of a concern to me that you saw my early posts in the game as personally provocative, but do not see insistently refraining that someone else isn't a good enough player to get you lynched (and that everyone agrees) or having a fragile ego as insulting.

Furthermore, it's hard to think you aren't being intentionally manipulative when you positioned my own comments as personal attacks on you in order to justify a 1v1 on me.

These two points, combined, make me fairly sure that the kinds of manipulation you are performing in this game are scum-motivated.

[Varsoon]

If I had two lynches: RC and, depending on how that flips, NK15.

[Varsoon]

I absolutely won't become a miller because it's not one of my possible modifiers, Mutant.
Try again.

[Varsoon]

btw I still kinda wanna see what your modifiers are

Look forward to it.

I'll read his modifiers when the mod posts the flip

Note that most of the modifiers worth including (ninja/strongman) are scum focused

Yeah and creating PTs that help collude people into triple votes sure is town focused aye aye

[Varsoon]

They could always just not vote with you, it could not work in LYLO/MYLO, it could not work when the rest of a wagon has scum on it
You know
All fixes for the same sort of role that I've put in my own games and given to scum multiple times.

[Varsoon]

i'll be here before end of day. i think we have a day yet. i understand you guys are doing your 1v1 thing. which has taken prob 50 pages on its own

Nah, we had a good 10+ pages where we both pushed other reads.
RC continued to be really scummy, I tried to olive-branch it and stay passive, but eh, nah
He's still my top scumread and a lynch there solves a lot for us
Dunno why he wants to characterize it as a 1v1, either, 'cus I'm talking to other players and outright saying I'll even vote to lynch on other players.
Well I guess I do know
It's because he's scum and the more he calls it a 1v1, the less chance he might have of catching an L for it.

[Varsoon]

In a way that, have I mentioned, doesn't make sense with his claimed role? Why does a supposedly "likely day 3 IC" pick a fight on day one highly likely to get them mis?lynched when most of the game had already agreed to lynch me if he flipped IC?

Same thing I've been saying for days by the way

If Varsoon is town who is going to be confirmed why does he not wait to be confirmed and use that confirmation to lynch me?

My confirmation only confirms me as town.
Your scum play throughout the day phase is what confirms you as scum.
You, yourself, are the one who's been insisting that my IC could be very delayed, as a reason to lynch me,
Which indicates that this isn't a defense that town-you would ever take as reasonable.
You've proven you're thinking from a scum PoV.

Follow the logic here:

If town, RC's complaint about my claim is that it potentially delays my IC confirmation to day 7.
If town, though, that's no defense for RC to say 'just lynch me when you are confirmed as IC'.

As scum, though, RC using the delayed IC confirmation to day 7 as a rationale for pushing my lynch NOW before I even get a single shot at it makes plenty of sense.
As scum, RC saying 'Just lynch me when Varsoon confirms' makes plenty of sense if he thinks my IC confirm won't even come out during the rest of the game.

@Anyone with more RC meta knowledge than me: Does RC usually make these sorts of circular arguments, where he just keeps coming back to the same point over and over and over and over and never engages with the refutation of those points? It's something that I scumread heavily, regardless, just wanna know if there's some precedent for this kinda thing.

[Varsoon]

I also don't think that my confirmation of IC makes RC a must-lynch slot. RC's play is what should be judged, not their juxtaposition to me as confirmed town.

[SNIP]

Once again, there's a hard difference between believing I am IC and trusting in that and thinking RC must be scum. The two ideas are vaguely related but each exists independently.

Big yawns.