newbie 1905: pictures from my phone (GAME OGRE !!!)

[PvtUrist]

I'm curious, URAP2. Why are you so much more interested in my reads on FC than my accusations on you? Trying to take out the threat that's been endangering your scum buddy?

[foodcoats]

VOTE: the worst

Cheeky and pin, I am especially interested to get your feedback here as SEs.

I do not believe town!TW ever pushes both wagons to claim on D1. Whether or not Jumble/URAP is/not a PR, any claiming is 100% suboptimal play for town on D1. Consider:

1. Jumble/URAP is a PR and claims. We lynch someone else and the Mafia NKs the claimant.
2. Jumble/URAP is scum and claims PR. This draws a counter-claim from the real PR and they are NKed.

I think that scum!TW is likely to try the claim play in scenario 1 to get a good NK. I think town!TW would NEVER attempt the claim play in scenario 2. town!TW would consider that these claims are useless D1 in general and we are better off risking lynching a PR and hoping we get PR information with more robust, multi-faceted claims (e.g. Tracker or Cop claim with results on a target) that at least give us more information to move ahead our solving on D2.

For example, in 1250 (quoted below), TW is clearly writing this from the scum perspective. town!TW would consider the full scope of what it means to force a PR to claim, e.g. what the mafia can do with that information overnight.

what's your suggestion, we just hammer an unclaimed slot? it's {jumble, urap2} here imo. What's the alternative?

The only possible scenario where town!TW may make this move is if they are the Doctor and Doctor!TW believes they can defend the claimant. However, I don't believe TW is unsophisticated enough in his reasoning not to consider a) the possibility of the Mafia Roleblocker; and b) the ability of the Mafia to skillfully dissect the PR combos, town!TW's motivations and identify town!TW as the likely Doctor and NK him instead.

I think TW is always scum in this position and should be lynched today. I think this is supported by TW's blendy ISO and also by TW waffling near the end on Jumble's wagon, to provide cover when Jumble flipped town.

[foodcoats]

EBWOP: Cheeky is dead. Long live Cheeky.

[Vorkuta]

I think TW is always scum in this position and should be lynched today.

This.

Urist, back off FC for literally the duration of teh_worst wagon. The spotlight is on duck now.

[PvtUrist]

I like duck but alright. Willing to see how things go.

[Vorkuta]

Teh_duck isn't going to vote for himself
Pint isn't going to bite:

So what's the big fucking deal, asking claims on two leading wagons is common sense when EoD is so close and different timezones are on, especially knowing we have 8 players instead of 9 and Jumble who at this point is a wildcard.

Cheeky was with us and then got NK'd.
Yyotta is..... everpresent I hope.

That leaves Urist and URAP2 (who are at each other's throats), and both need to vote to get 4.

[PvtUrist]

Vorkuta what are your current reads? I'm assuming;
{Vork, Pintu, FC}
{Yyotta}
{Urist, TW, URAP2}

[Vorkuta]

I don't put myself on my own readlists. I don't 'read' myself- I've read the mod's role PM

{FC Urist}
{URAP2 Pintu}
{Yyota, Duck}

Urist:

Spoiler:

Your forced VT claim and the circumstances under which it was squeezed out of you put you in conf!town land. I'm sorry for putting you in the same line as FC

FC:

Spoiler:

is probably the only person (alive) who solidly shares my suspicion of duck. Even if this is bussing, I'll take all the help I can get. Aside from that- high quality and pro-town posts

Pintu and URAP2 can just go both ways.

Pintu

Spoiler:

FELT TOWN, but now that he's going to help duck clean up his mess (ducks don't have sphincters LAWL)..... great.

URAP2

Spoiler:

sometimes says complete bull that comes out SO DAMN SCUMMY, but with the life raft and D-1 EoD shenangigans going on.... I got nothing.
Furthermore- I'm pretty sure he slipped town when/as he was avoiding giving teh_worst his 2 claims.

Yyotta

Spoiler:

Just. Say. Anything, Literally. Are you quiet because you don't have a scum buddy to coach you? Are you quiet because your scum mentor is coaching you? Are you quiet because this game triggers you or something?

and TW

Spoiler:

-is it IC? is it scum? is it scum IC? the questions? the flufflewaffle? then with one day remaining, TW decides to push a URAP2 wagon. THEN:
-attempts to squeeze out 2 claims come D1.
-takes authority and FORCES the claims BEFORE everyone has input, with 5~6 hours left, and 5~6 players online.
-then just 'spices things up' by going for the easiest lynch imaginable = his getaway vehicle.

And the coup de grace:
-cheeky NK to clean up the evidence as she was the strongest player capable of/willing to point out all of the above.
After all- I'm just too hotheaded, hostile, and am willing to jump onto anything that moves.

[PvtUrist]

Yyotta Just. Say. Anything, Literally. Are you quiet because you don't have a scum buddy to coach you? Are you quiet because your scum mentor is coaching you? Are you quiet because this game triggers you or something?

In that case...

Yyotta I luv u plz respond

That should do.

[pinturicchio]

@fc I'll let the duck defend himself first, I want to be a spectator of this and then contribute of what I have to say about the subject. Is that ok?

I think Cheeky did a great job at creating PR WIFOM; she said she was going to be nightkilled because of "tradition", and after that said that protective PRs should be on their townreads. I think she was spewing "I am PR" thus she saved our real PRs. I don't see the nightkill as anything more deep than that for now.

[the worst]

@fc I'll let the duck defend himself first, I want to be a spectator of this and then contribute of what I have to say about the subject. Is that ok?

I think Cheeky did a great job at creating PR WIFOM; she said she was going to be nightkilled because of "tradition", and after that said that protective PRs should be on their townreads. I think she was spewing "I am PR" thus she saved our real PRs. I don't see the nightkill as anything more deep than that for now.

Just caught up quickly. I think this is an analysis I agree with very strongly; for what it's worth I tried to create some tw vs. cheeky drama at the end of the day to see if I could steer the nightkill onto myself.

Can anyone explain why there's votes on me? I might have missed something which is clearly obvious for all of you but I have literally no idea why people think I'm scum right now. (holiday mode likely isn't helping me here)

[the worst]

ConfTown

Vorkuta, PvtUrist, pinturicchio

LeanTown

YyottaCat, teh worst

LeanScum

u r a person 2, foodcoats

VOTE: URAP2

come at me

Urist; Claimed VT + scum confident in manipulating me as D2 lynch, unlikely NK1.

Vorkuta; strong

logical

players are a large threat to scum but their flip will too likely identify them/clear Urist. less-likely NK1.

Teh Wurs; Big active IC. Night death takes Vorkuta's attention off of them and onto real scum. less-likely NK1.

Yyotta; next to useless NK, potential scapegoat for D2 lynch. very unlikely NK1.

Pintu; town player but not immediate threat/benefit to scum. possible NK1.

Cheeky; strong active player, independent thus threat to scum, most PR looking. Can blame Urist for kill. likely NK1.

FC; Urist is scum. (if one of us is town while the other is scum, FC ain't dying either way). extremely unlikely NK1.

URAP2; Mediocre town contributions (bad town or scum). unlikely NK1.

I like duck but alright. Willing to see how things go.

Urist you're looking pretty hedgy here. Take a stance. I'm worried my late d1 call to swing the lynch back to you might have been on the money.

[Vorkuta]

@duck

-not seeing ANYWAY you were baiting the nightkill with that interactions
-FC's last post #1376, plus what I've said at EoD

It's to do with your squeezing out 2 claims and it being VERY anti-town, combined with your overall 'presence' D1

[the worst]

Also foodcoats thinks I'm a good lynch - how do you feel about a tw/foodcoats team? do you think scum!food is voting me here or this is town!food who's onto the evil scum ducky?

be interesting to see how URAP2 re-enters the thread

has your read on foodcoats changed at all since you originally decided his pred was scum?

[the worst]

It's to do with your squeezing out 2 claims and it being VERY anti-town, combined with your overall 'presence' D1

wrt eod1 I think I've explained myself pretty thoroughly.. :/ I wanted a URAP2 lynch and would have preferred him to claim; ths flow of the thread was against Jumble and I was having a hard time getting anyone to engage with me about reconsidering the mob read on him. So it was a necessity for Jumble to claim if he'd be the D1 lynch and I wanted a claim from the player I was hoping to successfully lynch.

If you think I have the balls to pull this kind of stuff as scum, I'm slightly flattered. I'm also not sure what my 'presence' has to do with me being scum? I'm here to provide direction and momentum in the game + impart sitemeta and knowledge (and offer opinions on what I consider good play, with an 'objective' spin--I am not permitted in this role to lie about what I consider good play. I've been a scum IC once and ultimately avoided lying about good play somewhat at the cost of my credibility).

There isn't really much for me to say about the Cheeky nightkil. I have a couple of observations but I don't think that points to anyone particularly strongly.

[foodcoats]

Nice dodge.

[the worst]

Got anything to talk to me about foodcoats?

[the worst]

1376 is more shade against your opinion on my playstyle, than alignment indicative statements. My "waffling" on Jumble should be pretty obviously me trying to find people to help me sort him and struggling immensely (save for Pintu who pointed out some marked difference between his last towngame but had to go before we could common sense check).

Put aside your accusation against my preference for how day one was handled: what part of any of what you're talking about comes from scum?

[the worst]

This is tantamount to a policy lynch suggestion because:
1) you do not like the way I post ("blendy"), and
2) you disagree with my suggestion for how claims were handled d1

letter is towny enough; Cheeky disagreed with it as well. she's probably a stronger player than I am all things considered but I'll always contest that there's multiple ways to handle that situation and neither of them are objectively wrong.

I hate to yell "policy lynch" as a means of defending myself but you're applying level 0 logic and seem to have just decided I need to die Because Reasons.

if you actually think I'm scum step a level deeper into the void. let's jam. and if you all DO lynch me I want to make sure this isn't a loss in 5p.

[foodcoats]

Explain the benefits to town of D1 claims.

[the worst]

I did on day one - avoiding lynching an unclaimed TPR slot. I wanted urap2 lynched, and the mob wanted Jumble lynched (albeit I wasn't sold on him being town either)

[the worst]

I'm not going to pull the IC card the same way I'm grateful nobody in this game is pulling the newbie card, but I am going to remind candidly: I am not allowed to mechanically scumside and then yell that what I'm doing is mechanically redeemable without a pretty detailed explanation post-game. The explanation is in the thread. If you think I'm scum, you're going to need to go a step deeper than your disagreement with me on d1 claim mechanics.

I'm not gonna trample on you pushing me ot suggesting I'm scum. this stuff is the spirit of the game. but I'll be pretty sad if this is it.

[foodcoats]

I did on day one - avoiding lynching an unclaimed TPR slot. I wanted urap2 lynched, and the mob wanted Jumble lynched (albeit I wasn't sold on him being town either)

I do not believe town!TW ever pushes both wagons to claim on D1. Whether or not Jumble/URAP is/not a PR, any claiming is 100% suboptimal play for town on D1. Consider:

1. Jumble/URAP is a PR and claims. We lynch someone else and the Mafia NKs the claimant.
2. Jumble/URAP is scum and claims PR. This draws a counter-claim from the real PR and they are NKed.

...

The only possible scenario where town!TW may make this move is if they are the Doctor and Doctor!TW believes they can defend the claimant. However, I don't believe TW is unsophisticated enough in his reasoning not to consider a) the possibility of the Mafia Roleblocker; and b) the ability of the Mafia to skillfully dissect the PR combos, town!TW's motivations and identify town!TW as the likely Doctor and NK him instead.

Sorry for my level 0 analysis TW, I'm a newb.

[foodcoats]

Need some time to think about it, don't you?

[Vorkuta]

Let's jam, because barring PR claims, huge slips, or

Yyotta showing up

divine intervention, I am intending to pursue a duck lynch.

1376 is more shade against your opinion on my playstyle, than alignment indicative statements

Ok duck- HELP US help you understand exactly what was going through your mind, other than (from our perspective) "tyrant duck squeezed out 2 claims to get closer to PR hunting".

Also a few things to note- you were put in a position with L-2 on both urap2 and jumble, and you and pint holding the hammer. You LITERALLY needed to convince 1 person. WHY did you completely back off URAP2 and not force him to?

well, you'll have to put me to an intent to hammer if you want the contents of my role pm. im no snitch

Jumble, please claim.

From MY (hopefully OUR) this series of events is as follows (reiterating what I said in my readslist):

-scum!duck wants 2 claims for PR hunting reasons
-one resists
-scum!duck decides- meh, bird in hand > two in bush
-gets the claim out
-waits to see everyone else's reaction to see whether he still has ANY CHANCE of getting the 2nd claim
-gah no people are onto me
-concedes for the easiest wagon (urist) to make it past the day.

Put yourself in jumble's shoes- considering that
-teh_duck is quite an experienced player and him/his scum buddy probably deduced (based on slips/tells/whathaveyou) who might have a PR
-this was done WITH 5 HOURS TO GO, with 5 people still online, and teh_duck felt like he was artificially rushing the situation.
-Jumble was IN THE MIDDLE OF NEGOTIATING his stance/position, especially considering that teh_duck was the one basically willing to to stand up for him,
You don't know how to play the game well, and now bam: previous games are being brought up, there's a wagon and a counter wagon on you come EoD, and people are yelling/shouting/hyperposting. You don't need to be an IC to realize that a newbie player is EXTREMELY likely to say anything that would redeem him under such circumstances, especially to the one person (duck) who was staunchly in his defense by trying to explain similarities to previous town/scum games but was now beginning to waver.

Also, this just feels personal to me as well. I give duck my hammer rights come EoD, and make VC counts explicitly reminding people to not do anything resembling foul play. I put aside my """IC-paranoia""", I stopped questioning his big questioning play style, and this is what I get in return.