Mini 2049: The Townsquare Game Over

[Thor665]

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You still think A50 is scum so I see no point in talking about why you should or should not have voted when you did. If you change your vote now it would not be AI because he claimed now and the cat's out of the bag he's town. I don't see any positive gain from us having long winded discussions on the strategy of our approach to A50 because it's already done. You're either scum or wrong.

Let's take for granted he's a Commuter, we'll pretend it's mod confirmed.
How does that make him town exactly?

The sorting:
Have you noticed that you barely gave any opinion or case regarding your own reads?
Take me. Without re-reading your ISO, I only know 1 read you have formed. That A50 is scum. Apart from that I can

imply

that you agree with my whiteknight list and thus are SRing them but that's the extent of what I am able to tell. What you have done a lot of instead is argue against or ask questions about someone else's arguments while seemingly not reaching any conclusions regarding the alignments of the people they are sorting.

Considering my posts before this one are *literally* a multi post debate with Cheeky about my town read on Crocolisk/Lolwagon I gotta be honest with you, if the only read of mine you're aware of is my read on A50 the issue is your lack of reading, not my lack of presenting.

You had an issue/needed clarification on how I ended up with the 2 groups I had.
Like I said, it is possible you implied that you agree with the 3 whiteknight reads plus trivium as a 4th whiteknight from your pov. However this could just be my interpretation it wasn't clear at all because it wasn't stated and expanded upon. Anyone reading your posts can't tell if you think I'm town or scum, and they can't tell how you're reading the 5 names in my list after excluding yourself.

I agree, people can't tell what my read of you is.
I don't know either - I'm still sorting.
Lack of a conclusion is nowhere near evidence of lack of sorting. What are you even on about?

if this is just a personality thing and this is how you genuinenly sort then I gotta tell you that from my pov you might as well be sorting people by yourself and just placing naked votes because I feel in the dark about where you stand most of the time.

I do consider sorting a solo activity.

coming back to give a more detailed answer than just ok and uhh

And then another 1-2 scum in {thor/gamma/omochao, trivium}

i am trivium btw
dw i forgot too

Why did you switch accounts
The fact you did that honestly grosses me the Smurf out. Like I can think of a couple reasons why, all of them are shitty and not pro-town.
VOTE: Omochao

Can you describe the scum benefit to this play?
Because all I get is 'alignment neutral' out of it.

[CheekyTeeky]

The dude didn't switch accounts you derp heads. They're saying that they keep forgetting they replaced Trivium and misunderstood that duckjab had listed the read on them for both players of the same slot.

[Thor665]

My question still stands.

[Gamma Emerald]

So you plan to scumhunt by intentionally ignoring information you possess and hamstringing town's scumhunting efforts?

idk its kinda weird if i use meta in an argument but if someone were to ask me for games for them to use id refuse because i dont want to out my main

seems unfair

Gamma what do you think about DDJ saying you should've known better than to pile on A50's weird entrance?

I feel like it’s fair. I missed the signal in the noise this time.

[Gamma Emerald]

The dude didn't switch accounts you derp heads. They're saying that they keep forgetting they replaced Trivium and misunderstood that duckjab had listed the read on them for both players of the same slot.

That seems obvious now fml

[Gamma Emerald]

coming back to give a more detailed answer than just ok and uhh

And then another 1-2 scum in {thor/gamma/omochao, trivium}

i am trivium btw
dw i forgot too

Why did you switch accounts
The fact you did that honestly grosses me the fuck out. Like I can think of a couple reasons why, all of them are shitty and not pro-town.
VOTE: Omochao

Lmao. Gamma is a cute read too.

What does that even mean

[CheekyTeeky]

coming back to give a more detailed answer than just ok and uhh

And then another 1-2 scum in {thor/gamma/omochao, trivium}

i am trivium btw
dw i forgot too

Why did you switch accounts
The fact you did that honestly grosses me the fuck out. Like I can think of a couple reasons why, all of them are shitty and not pro-town.
VOTE: Omochao

Lmao. Gamma is a cute read too.

What does that even mean

It means you being so derpy is adorable. I've already cute read Bu and Ducks for their adoration of each other. 'Tis rubbish fluff posting tbh.

[skitter30]

ok, i think it'll take me more than one post to catchup; sorry, was busy this weekend

@Skitter

DDA is apparently a fusion of DDJ and DLA, I specifically meant DLA there. DLA's iso consists of mostly bandwagon votes and seemingly just trying to float by. The Almost vote was especially bad considering they admitted not knowing why Almost was being voted in the first place. Gamma's a gut read.

Also, I'm voting Robert.

i disagree; i think scum would be more self-conscious about not knowing why they're voting someone

==

hey

hey

we should probably hang out in real-time sometime on d2... you're not doing those things town you does..

sure; it's still early and you have a pretty good track record of reading me as the game progresses so i'm sure you'll figure it out in due time

==

A50 should have been lynched for this post. This is in no way a refutation to Thor’s argument.

It serves to
1) Dodge the question
2) Throw suspicion on someone who suspects him and
3) Equate any insightful play on Thor’s part with his scum meta

It’s playing on town paranoia, avoiding discussing the actual substance of the argument, and confounding the issue.

pretty much
and when i pointed this out to him did an ate-y thing to avoid answering me

==

I think I can lynch Almost50 but for the record I would like my distaste towards a slot to be noted

I have cleared my use of size 300 voting with BuJ and though it is in bad taste he has given me permission

VOTE: Trivium

big vote from a big duck

these posts feel really wrong from you tonally

i dont' know why

but they don't feel like town!you; they feel i don't even know the right word - kinda bravado-y and like not-caring-y and over-dramatic-y. which i know you do as town as well but it reads as kinda insincere and just feels kinda wrong

bujaber is townie af imo tho

i'm going to stick you lot in the town pile for now i think because bujaber is a pretty strong read and the things that are bothering me rn about you you do as town too

==

Solid Town: DDJ + CT
Likely Town: LA + skitter + Trivium
Null: milky + joges + Robert + DLA
Scummy: Gamma + Thor + Lol

why are you townreading me?

also why are you townreading trivium?

also can you like explain the bottom tier? also all three of them are voting you ....

==

How? Its day 1. How am I cautious? A50 been getting on my nerves since he gotten here, and would of voted him if he had 0 votes on him at that time.

what's the difference between having 0 votes on him and having (i think) 4 votes on him when you voted him?

==

Did you not see DDJ's post or did you ignore it?

i saw it, and was explaining that that i have seen him do this sort of thing before

==

Scum:
soviet
gamma

talk about these? what don't you like about gamma?

also reading on to your next post i don't entirely understand why you're townreading a50 in spite of all of his bad posts

also did you make this readslist before or after you repped in?

i think its kinda NAI since i kinda read all of this before i knew who i was replacing into and i just copied the list straight over from notepad and forgot

yeah ok this is hwere i was going with that ^^^ if you made the readslist before you repped in i odn't think that forgetting your own slot is really ai; i think you just forgot which slot in particular you replaced

==

It happens if you copy paste, but I see what you are saying. I dont think it's obvious and considering trivium is who they replaced, I dont like the trust in that read.
Before I forget UNVOTE: (sorry jingle)

why are you unvoting robert here?

==

i dont want to use meta because that seems disingenuous if i can use meta on people i played with on my other accounts but those same people cant use it on me because this is an alt.

this feels kinda townie to me

==

skitter is always this stupid regarding me. EVERYTIME you don't understand, and EVERYTIME you understand after the fact, yet YOU NEVER LEARN. STOP FUCKING MESSING WITH MY D1 PLANS.

i mean, ok

i said i wasn't reading too much into the no nk thing because it was prob you either crumbing in some strange way (and if you're town here, hey look - i was right), which is why i wasn't really worrying/caring about it too much at that point

my problem is more how you tried to discredit thor's push on you, and when pressured, proceeded to call thor scum and are attempting to shut down or divert discussion into that read; i've repeatedly tried to reach out to you to try to understand what you're thinking and you keep refusing to respond or to engage with me or to explain your reads - i find this *much* more problematic than the nk thing

i don't entirely understand how trying to understand your thor read is 'fucking messing with your day1 plans', and i think it's disingenuous to portray my attempt to sort you this way

normally i'd let the nks sort through a day1 pr claim like this but like .... you've claimed something that isn't going to be resolved that way any time soon unless you're like shot-limited; i'm not sure i trust nks to resolve you here

i'm stopping this post here since this is getting kinda long + i gotta do some things irl; i'll continue later tonight

[skitter30]

Oh okay so you did crumb.

Still don’t think you’re town here. Drawing this much attention and controversy to yourself makes no sense.

Why not just play a strong town game and draw the night kill?

i've seen him crumb using *bizarre* logic multiple times as town; the crumbing itsel fi don't find scummy *for him* even if it's not something i would do

(like, for example, he was a town gunsmith in the game i just finsihed modding and for reasons beyond me gunsmith-crumbed about 87 times in his first post, which was immediately noticable to anyone who'd played with him a few times before, including scum!gamma, who tried to nk him for it)

==

You weren't in the game. Had I known you would replace in I would have taken measure to ensure even someone with 30 IQ would understand and I would probably have planned it a different way. Sorry for not foreseeing YOU would join the game.

again, i kinda guessed where you were going with the crumb and i don't inherently have a problem with how you chose to do it, but rather how you responded to pressure after the fact, and how you tried to shut down discussion of your reads - even now you're insulting people who are trying to understand why you did what you did instead of trying to help them understand your thought process

==

They don’t constantly, blatantly softclaim a role to intimidate people out of voting then.

i *think* the logic is that he was trying to soft a pr to try to eat an nk

==

I'm not okay with hammer. Credible or not, lynching a pr claim day is scum beneficial. Pls no

i kinda don't like lynching pr claims day1 in games this size, because they tend to be sorted via nks, but like, he claimed something that prob won't be resolved that way so ...

This is just wrong. VOTE: lolwagon

this is very surface level - you're saying that lolwagons is scummy for pushing a pr-claim day1 - but you're ignoring the broader context that a50 is not really townie in a holistic sense

you went from pushing a50 to hard-defending him when he got intent and voting someone pushing him. i think that such a the 180 either comes from town or scum who is partners with a50 (which imo should not be ruled out); i don't think scum switches reads like that so abruptly unless i'ts on a partner; there's no reason to defend someone so strongly imo as scum just as they're given intent; i don't think he can expect to get towncred here for an a50 town!flip based on how he was pushing him at daystart

==

It's not reasonable to expect him to vote for anyone while he's ACTIVELY BEING LYNCHED

uh if he's town and is about to be lynched he should be pointing out where he thinks scum is before that happens

==

this is incredibly townie imo

==

I feel the A50 lynch wagon has gain so much momentem so quickly, makes me nervous. While he's annoying I'm not sure he's for sure scum.

Unvote

How come all your votes only seem to follow along with what the last several votes have been?

popping in without really talking about anything that has happened wrt a50 is kinda meh

==

I'll be in transit for like 24hrs so y'know, activity will be hit and miss and I'll be tired and angery

i hope you had a good trip home

==

With two people questioning this stance I have to counter ask though - are either of you reading him as having poor play/have played with him before and expect poor play?

(i think you meant to direct this towards me)

i've not played with him before, and i haven't seen him around on-site before either i'm pretty sure, so i was wondering if you'd had some prior experience with him

also his push on cheeky was kinda bad and just like ... very out of tune with the gamestate (ie his vote on her was bad and pushing her for 'voteparking on lynchbait' when she had switched her vote fairly frequently up until that point seemed kinda oblivious and like didn't really 'match' with what happened in the game thus far).

not having seen him around before + him making that sort of push made me think he might not particularly experienced player

==

So you plan to scumhunt by intentionally ignoring information you possess and hamstringing town's scumhunting efforts?

i don't really like this

i mean, yes, by not outing his alt he's preventing people from like meta-diving him, but i don't think he's doing it with like the intent to deliberately make things harder for other players. or, more accurately, he *is* making it harder for other players to metadive him, but i don't think he has nefarious intent in doing so, but rather that he wants to try out a new playstyle and doesn't want other games to be associated with this one; i've seen lots and lots of players do this and since the decision to play on an alt is usually made before receiving a role pm i don't think it's much ai

like i don't really get the vibe that he was thinking: 'i'm going to use my alt to prevent people from meta-diving me and then use that as an excuse not to meta-dive other people'
but more like: 'i don't really think it's right/fair for me to use a tool on other players that i'm not allowing other players to use on me', which feels pretty townie to me; this feels like a weird thought process for scum to have imo

and i feel like by characterizing this as 'hamstringing town's scumhunting efforts' you're framing this thought-process in a more negative light than i think it deserves

So...again, to be clear, you are claiming that you're intentionally playing like you're dumb to avoid using knowledge you absolutely possess?
Or, are you using your meta knowledge and then lying about it if you present a case?

Neither situation sounds particularly helpful to town, so it annoys me if either is what you're doing.

ok reading this i think i may not have understood you correctly above, and that you may have more meant - by not utilizing meta-info he may have he's playing suboptimally?

i mean i guess? but even if it's suboptimal i feel like the sentiment comes from town

(i read 'hamstringing town's scumhunting efforts' more like you were saying that he was making things difficult for town by not letting people metadive him)

==

coming back to give a more detailed answer than just ok and uhh

And then another 1-2 scum in {thor/gamma/omochao, trivium}

i am trivium btw
dw i forgot too

Why did you switch accounts
The fact you did that honestly grosses me the fuck out. Like I can think of a couple reasons why, all of them are shitty and not pro-town.
VOTE: Omochao

he's saying that he's the new trivium (ie he replaced that slot), and that he keeps forgetting who he replaced, not that he *is* trivium-who-decided-to-change-accounts

i think gamma misreading things like this is weakly +town for him

[skitter30]

yay i'm caught up
i'm happy with my a50 vote

[Omochao]

coming back to give a more detailed answer than just ok and uhh

And then another 1-2 scum in {thor/gamma/omochao, trivium}

i am trivium btw
dw i forgot too

Why did you switch accounts
The fact you did that honestly grosses me the fuck out. Like I can think of a couple reasons why, all of them are shitty and not pro-town.
VOTE: Omochao

lol what??
i am not literally trivium, i replaced into his slot

trivium very clearly replaced out for activity reasons and if it were faked it would be incredibly dumb to switch accounts and then tell everyone he did lmfao

[Omochao]

also reading on to your next post i don't entirely understand why you're townreading a50 in spite of all of his bad posts

theyre bad but i can see where he's coming from so i want to see him as town here

So...again, to be clear, you are claiming that you're intentionally playing like you're dumb to avoid using knowledge you absolutely possess?
Or, are you using your meta knowledge and then lying about it if you present a case?

Neither situation sounds particularly helpful to town, so it annoys me if either is what you're doing.
Clarify?

i think this is a bad faith analysis of what im trying to say. im trying to be better at the game by consciously developing a play style that is less reliant on meta and tone to form reads. my reads before were pretty frequently just "this is just scum [insert here]" and its a feels over facts argument because i look at so many things that its hard for me to actually express that into convincing text.

if i cant convince people with my reads is there much point in having them? having dumb reads like that made me feel overlooked in several games because my reads are hard to talk about and hard for other town to engage in, even if theyre right. "playing like im dumb", and not using meta arent the same thing at all, and its frustrating that you would try to present what im trying to do like that.

i specifically think this take is in bad faith because the way that you say

you are claiming that you're intentionally playing like you're dumb to avoid using knowledge you absolutely possess

alone is demeaning in several ways

you're intentionally playing like you're dumb

this implies that my play up till now has been dumb. this is completely separate from saying that ive made nonsensical or dumb posts, but its literally ad hom, and devalues my posts indirectly by calling my overall play dumb.

to avoid using knowledge you absolutely possess

this makes it seem like i hold information that i am choosing not to use to the detriment of the town, which is false.
i dont think that you think that meta is absolutely a tool that should be used whenever possible because of the pretty obvious case, anyone can change their meta. you've ignored my previous explanation of why im not using meta, that i felt like i relied on it too much and used it as a crutch, and are now trying to argue that im intentionally and actively working against the interests of the town, which with the above explanation doesn't make sense.

Or, are you using your meta knowledge and then lying about it if you present a case?

this is so out of left field that it doesn't actually make sense that you would get there from anything i said. the only way that you could get this is if you intentionally wanted to bring this up as rhetoric.

Neither situation sounds particularly helpful to town, so it annoys me if either is what you're doing.

here you're pretty explicitly saying either way you look at my post im being anti-town.

and then to boot it all ends with this

Clarify?

which makes this whole post seem like such a reframe as you just trying to get what im trying to say, which is in no way truthful since every single question you've asked has been loaded so blatantly. its like you literally stood in front of me, loaded all six shots of a revolver, and then said "lets play russian roulette! you first."

like tf? im finding it incredibly hard to believe that youre honestly trying to clarify what i mean when i say im trying not to use meta.

VOTE: thor

try again?

[Omochao]

talk about these? what don't you like about gamma?

outside of gamma's behavior on a50, i dont really have a problem with his slot and until that he was at the top of my readlist. i thought it was a good thing to get out of the way as soon as i got in.

as soon as soviet got in he started pressuring cheeky for really dumb reasons and then backed down really quickly in a way that made me feel like he wasnt actually pressuring cheeky to get a read, but instead just wanted to pressure for the sake of it.

like these two posts

You're getting pretty defensive after my vote. Scratch my intentions, most of your answers were focused on redirecting attention to pedantics. You also avoided explaining your post about Robert

Mm, that's fine. I think your thoroughly offended tone is genuine and I don't think that's sunny

Unvote:

first he talks about how badly she's been responding to his pressure and then he unvotes not because he re-evaluates her responses as good now, but because she seems offended. that makes it seem like instead of really wanting responses from her questions, he just wanted her to get mad enough that it looks TvT from an outside party. how would you pressure someone with arguments like "they're low hanging fruit because they're low hanging fruit" and expect them to not get mad to some level? if he unvoted because he got a specific response he wanted, that would be cool, but just being offended? that doesnt seem legit.

[CheekyTeeky]

{lolwagons, DDJ, Omochao}
{DLA, skitter, joges, Gamma Emerald}
{}
{A50, Lady A, Thor}
{Milk, Robert}

[CheekyTeeky]

If Robert flips scum it's unlikely he's SvS with Angel. And obviously Thor not SvS with A50.

[Jingle]

Vote Count 1.9

Flavor to be added.

With 13 Alive, it is 7 to Lynch!

Almost50: (3) Thor665 (98), skitter30 (309), DarkLightA (414),
themilkcartonkid: (2) CheekyTeeky (511), DuckDuckJab (522),
Gamma Emerald: (1) joges (266),
Robert2424: (1) Lady Angel (326),
LolWagons: (1) themilkcartonkid (474),
Omochao: (1) Gamma Emerald (573),
Thor665: (1) Omochao (586),
Lady Angel: (0)
CheekyTeeky: (0)
joges: (0)
DuckDuckJab: (0)
skitter30: (0)
DarkLightA: (0)

Not Voting (3): Almost50 (327), LolWagons (512), Robert2424 (519),


Deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-02 12:00:00).

Important Notes:
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The Game is currently in Day One.

-

skitter30 is permanently V/LA on Fridays and Saturdays.

-

Merry Christmas!

[Thor665]

The dude didn't switch accounts you derp heads. They're saying that they keep forgetting they replaced Trivium and misunderstood that duckjab had listed the read on them for both players of the same slot.

That seems obvious now sml

I'd still like you to describe the scum advantage you saw from him if he did it.

which makes this whole post seem like such a reframe as you just trying to get what im trying to say, which is in no way truthful since every single question you've asked has been loaded so blatantly. its like you literally stood in front of me, loaded all six shots of a revolver, and then said "lets play russian roulette! you first."

like tf? im finding it incredibly hard to believe that youre honestly trying to clarify what i mean when i say im trying not to use meta.

VOTE: thor

try again?

Wow, that was a whole lot of words complaining about my questions without answering them all because "they're loaded" so let's try again.

You have meta on other people - y/n?
You believe your meta is good - y/n?
You're actively then choosing to not use your meta - y/n?

Please now describe how your above answers translate into helping town find scum.
Is that kind and gentle enough for you to not dodge?

[Omochao]

why do i even care
its too early in the morning for this

im trying to be better at the game by consciously developing a play style that is less reliant on meta and tone to form reads.

im trying to be better at the game by consciously developing a play style that is less reliant on meta and tone to form reads.

im trying to be better at the game by consciously developing a play style that is less reliant on meta and tone to form reads.

im trying to be better at the game by consciously developing a play style that is less reliant on meta and tone to form reads.

im trying to be better at the game by consciously developing a play style that is less reliant on meta and tone to form reads.

im trying to be better at the game by consciously developing a play style that is less reliant on meta and tone to form reads.

if you can reframe that as being anti town do what you want i don't fucking care

VOTE: milk

[Thor665]

How are you "consciously developing" this play style in this game?
What do you do with the meta you're aware of?

[Thor665]

You're actively then choosing to not use your meta - y/n?

[Omochao]

ugh
im more awake now so ill indulge in this weird dialogue tree thats gonna happen here without having a little temper tantrum like the 4 yo i am

How are you "consciously developing" this play style in this game?
What do you do with the meta you're aware of?

not using meta and trying not to use tone
nothing hopefully

You have meta on other people - y/n?
You believe your meta is good - y/n?
You're actively then choosing to not use your meta - y/n?

y
y
y

[themilkcartonkid]

@thor seriously, at this point you have to be intentionally misunderstanding people. You are wasting game time by having people explain things that they have already explicitly laid out for you. Read the replies, they are developing this by ignoring meta. And yes they are explicitly ignoring meta. How many times do they have to tell you this?

[Omochao]

nah let him get to the end of his dialogue tree

[themilkcartonkid]

@skitter I have answers to your questions tonight

[CheekyTeeky]

nah let him get to the end of his dialogue tree

Joke's on you, it's a bottomless dialogue hole.