Micro 839: Two-in-One (its over)

[xyzzy]

"didn't you waste two minutes by typing all of that that you could've spent reading posts?" you ask

and to that I answer, your question that I'm imagining you just asked just wasted another minute. you fucked up my friend

[xyzzy]

oh wow pagetop

[xyzzy]

I kinda don't like your plan for the simple fact it feels like it takes the whole '2 in 1' part of the game out of it. Along with the fact that I can easily see claims etc bringing complications to your whole idea. So I dislike it

the point about claims is a good one but I don't really like the first point -- if playing each game separately were better town EV I'd want to do that, but it's not, so I don't. whether it's in the spirit of the game is of absolutely zero relevance

xyzzy I think your plan is reductive and makes unreasonable assumptions about how others would react to a situation I suspect you may have found yourself in. QED, made in bad faith

Pine, how do you feel about xyzzy and persival putting you at L-2 in both games at once for you claiming early?

How do

you

feel about it?

Ahh, the old "I know you are but what am I?" Trick. Amazing skillset to have.

That is not what happened there. The quoted accusation is disingenuous

do you genuinely believe that someone with both a mafia role and a townie role would have absolutely no incentive to prioritize one over the other w/r/t their own death? like I'm only acting in bad faith if my point is wrong. so is it?

BEHOLD IT IS I, PINE, IN MY FIRST GAME IN LIKE SIX MONTHS

So hey y'all. I'm doing a new thing this game. I'm a VT/VT. Discuss.

I don't think an actual VT/VT would claim this early

VOTE: C14 Pine
VOTE: B7 Pine

I think I agree that double-VT wouldn’t claim like this
But I’m not sure I’m sold on the idea that makes him VT+Scum

Irrelephant

, because

xyzzy

hasn't voted or mentioned me yet,

Irrelephant

mentioned me as a hypothetical scum for his point. You've only responded to one of them thus far, even though they both seem alright with double-voting.

I don't think

xyzzy's

vote in 30 was RVS?

I can’t decide if I think this misunderstanding (Elsa thinking xyzzy was RVS voting - I think it was obvious he wasn’t RVS voting) is non-partner-y. I think I think so?

Ngl I was really confused (and still am) on how the whole scum pt thing works on how they can talk to each other thing goes.
Like are the 2 scum for 1 game in a pt and the other 2 in one but they can also use it as a neighborhood to talk about the other game?
If so that's wacky. What if you sr your partner but you can't say anything cause you'd be outting yourself in the other game.
My head hurts just thinking about it

This kinda sounds like someone who’s trying to crumb that they’re scum who’s scumreading their partner

this last point bout Maki seems like an enormous reach to me

19 hours to a bored Elsa is an eternity, and you were gone for 19 hours.

sounds like bullshit to me but okay

im alive guys, i had to poo for 22 hours straight

going to start organizing posts and thoughts now

thanks for the update re:your bowel movements. please keep us posted

I’m only realizing now that there’s good odds 2/3 of you are scum


Xyzzy, Pine, how do you each read Elsa?

the post I quoted reads as scummy to me. I think there's at least one game where Elsa is scum and you are town.

Pine, how do you feel about xyzzy and persival putting you at L-2 in both games at once for you claiming early?

Who is more scummy? For consistancy, we're focused on Bird right now, not Carbon.

hey I noticed this post again in Taly's post and the wording of this is weird given that only one of us put Pine at L-2

@Irrelephant's 84

Solving for 2 games simultaneously makes a distinction between both difficult. I still agree with the plan given the mod's response.

Entertaining pre-flip associatives D1 will not help here. (Regarding

Elsa

)

Can you elaborate on

Maki

being VT+Scum?

do you disagree with my analysis that a person who is scum in one game and town in the other would prefer to be lynched in the town game given the choice between the two?

and if so, do you disagree that strategically taking away the ability for scum to do that is a good plan?

if you think I'm arguing in bad faith, then that's fair, but you haven't actually clarified your thoughts on my plan.

The bolded assumes that a mislynch would be made, and therefore, not a plan that is concerned with scumhunting.

Do you have other reads aside from

Pine

? And can you elaborate on how

Pine

is likely scum in at least one game given his opening post?

I'd like

Persivul

to answer the above as well, and for his read on

Maki

and her posts so far.

(About

Pine

) I don't see scum posting something that could be interpreted in many different ways as a VT/VT claim. It reads as gauging for reactions and thinking below the surface level.

it's simply unrealistic to assume that both games will have a scum lynch D1. my plan is based on improving our odds for the game as a whole. there's some good advice that comes from

Magic: the Gathering

that basically says that only your very last point of life actually matters in terms of winning or losing, so if spending your life as a resource makes you reduce your opponent to 0 before they reduce you to 0, that's the correct line of play. same thing in Mafia -- only the last town player who dies actually matters.

[xyzzy]

okay it's 4:58, time for me to get whatever the hell food they have at an airport Bob Evans

[xyzzy]

pro-tip: when the airport Bob Evans says they serve toast what they really mean is they warmed up some bread in the microwave. would not recommend

my flight leaves at 6:30 but I have no idea when boarding is

[xyzzy]

I saw this had 7 pages and I was like "oh wow that's a lot of pages" but page 7? that's all me babey

[xyzzy]

Idea: we play this as 2 separate games. All posts for now are on one game. We set our own deadline for that game. Then we move on to the other with the mod's deadline.

Thoughts?

not knowing that this precise plan has been proposed ain't a good look

Yeah, I like the reasoning he gave, but then the same type of thing I felt odd about Irrelephant doing, I saw in Elsa's post. (filtered banter, quick back and forth with an equally quick end)

It's early. That seems pretty normal to me. No offense, but I find your in-depth posts to be weird this early.

Agreed. Not necessarily scummy, though, Taly does this.

yeah agreed. it seems like Taly has a bias toward people he perceives as inactive as being scum which is a bad take but that doesn't necessarily make him scum

For the next 3-5. Irl days, I'm going to mainly focus on voting in Bird 7p.

Why Bird? Mod repeatedly listed Carbon first. Seems like that one would naturally be the first focused on.

I personally think that if we focus on one game first it should be bird (not that I like that idea, mind you). it's got a lot more mechanical complexity to worry about on day 1 imo

I don’t feel as strongly as FA about what “ideal play” is here but I think Pine makes good points about how separating the lynches will make it harder to hit scum

When the setup only provides for one mislynch, we can't be basing lynches on statistics.

theoretically in bird we might have 2 if the doc is really, really good (though we shouldn't be betting on that)

[xyzzy]

Ugh, this is pissing me off, I can't let it go there.

Some of the best scumhunting strategies revolve around putting people into uncomfortable, unfamiliar situations, and seeing how they react in an organic way. Dogmatically sticking to old models (like LaL) actually benefits scum because it allows them to fall back on

established protocol

. Just like polite platitudes allow a socially uncomfortable person to handle a new situation, black-and-white scumhunting strategies allow scum to anticipate and conform to your expectations.

Persivul, your dogged determination and blind insistence on absolutist truths strikes me as Town. Don't blow it by sabotaging the cause.

technically this feels like a thing Pine would acknowledge as true in any alignment but I'm still kind of townreading it

Persivul please explain your read on me

I said that, after you had one conversation with another person, I was "meh," i.e. null, on you. Your repeated requests for an explanation of my read feels forced - like you're scum paranoid that you don't look townie enough, and you want to know why so you can correct it.

C14: Unvote

B7: Unvote

B7: FOS Irrelephant

Your push on

Irrelephant

thus far seems focused around his read on you... Also, I don't know what meeting you've had with

Irrelepehant

before, but 116 is dismissive of him.

Can you post-link or point out specific things about what he's said to emphasize your point?

@Persivul's 114

I actually want to know why

Maki

and

Elsa

would rather do B7 first because I'm not seeing the reason that makes B7

"slightly more complicated"

cop and seer are basically identical roles which means the possible effect of a power role claim on the game is pretty much the same for both. the way the town will react to a cop claim is different from how they'll react to a doc claim. this difference makes analyzing it a bit more complex.

Can we try to get out of all the mech talk now.

Considering my next post that's right after that is talking non mech and you don't talk about that boy what cherry pick posting.
Says the person who's done nothing but mech talk, and precious little of that.

I thought I was doing a decent job in causing uncessacary conflict to draw out scum by being ignorant and seeing who would gun for me.

Can I have some townread now?

Sure.
Now that we're past the whole Pine VT/VT reaction test BS that was very obv a test I'm gonna go and check who fell for that because it's something that on the surface. Yes it looks objectively scummy and scum are most likely to jump on that then not. Town will give it another glance

how are scum more likely to react to that? I don't follow your reasoning here.

VOTE: b7 Elsa Jay
VOTE: c14 Elsa Jay

[Elsa Jay]

*Agrees to vote Bird first*

*votes me in both Carbon and Bird*

*cheeky Bastard, he is*

[Pine]

do you genuinely believe that someone with both a mafia role and a townie role would have absolutely no incentive to prioritize one over the other w/r/t their own death? like I'm only acting in bad faith if my point is wrong. so is it?

That’s a fair question. I don’t know, I haven’t ever been put in that position before. I’ll think on it.

Merry Xmas to those who celebrate it!

[Elsa Jay]

So the idea of giving 7 days to each game during the holiday season was a pipedream. Sigh.

[Errantparabola]

Votecount 1.4

C14

Elsa Jay

(1): xyzzy

No Lynch

(1): Maki Harukawa

Not Voting

(5): Pine, Taly, Elsa Jay, Irrelephant11, Persivul

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to achieve majority.

--

B7

Elsa Jay

(2): Taly, xyzzy

Irrelephant11

(1): Elsa Jay

xyzzy

(1): Maki Harukawa

Not Voting

(2): Pine, Irrelephant11, Persivul

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to achieve majority.

Deadline in (expired on 2019-01-02 17:37:00)

[Maki Harukawa]

Because teasing my friends entertains me.

Cool story. However, given that we've never (to my recollection and your user profile) played a game together or significantly interacted before, I don't buy it.

I'm Maria you dingbat <3

[Elsa Jay]

Because teasing my friends entertains me.

Cool story. However, given that we've never (to my recollection and your user profile) played a game together or significantly interacted before, I don't buy it.

I'm Maria you dingbat <3

Fake news. I'm actually Maria.

[Maki Harukawa]

Fk true

[Elsa Jay]

We Maria's got to stick together, right?

VOTE: B7 Xyzzy

[Maki Harukawa]

Hell yeah!

[Pine]

Because teasing my friends entertains me.

Cool story. However, given that we've never (to my recollection and your user profile) played a game together or significantly interacted before, I don't buy it.

I'm Maria you dingbat <3

Oh

Hmm

Recalibration required. Not when buzzed and wrapping presents for Pinecone

[Pine]

Also <3

[Errantparabola]

I have decided to extend the deadline for 2 days. Prods will also not be going out until the 26th. Anyone against this motion -- speak now, etc.

[Elsa Jay]

Honestly this was expected for Holiday times. Thanks for understanding, Mod.

[Pine]

All glory and approbation to a considerate mod.

[Elsa Jay]

Pine tell me what I'm doing wrong here. Why is xyzzy voting me?

[Pine]

Because you’re scummy bro. Asking what you’re doing wrong is another example of it - scum is self-concerned and anxious. Town just IS.

[Pine]

Hmmm.

That gives me an idea for a whole new strategy for scumhunting. This probably isn’t the right game to deploy it though, given the dual game.