Newbie 1908 [Game Over]

[Munchmellow]

Thanks, Skitter, that's great!

[PvtUrist]

@IC Flavor Leaf

, in situations like this this one, is it usually better for town to policy lynch than no lynch? I'm feeling the general consensus is that no lynch is bad for town, but I'm not sure completely why.

I give the intend to hammer before the deadline if nothing changes, but I would still prefer a vivit lynch.

[rosterfoster]

I know I'm not the IC, but I would ask what information do we gain from a no-lynch? Mafia could no-kill (I think this would be a very bad idea for them, but just for the sake for argument), and then we're back to the same situation as before. It's worse if they kill though, as we just lose a town player where we had no say in who was killed. The flip is guaranteed to be town, and quite possibly someone who would be better at finding the scum. So in most situations (with the except of 4 players left and no clears - in this case a no-lynch would increase the chance of hitting scum from 1/4 to 1/3 if scum kills. I think this situation is the reason why we tend to have an odd number of players in mafia games) no lynch makes little sense to me.

The deadline extension is fortunate (thanks Skitter!), but it does seem to me that we've made little progress in the past couple of (IRL) days. My position is essentially the same as Urist's I think. Unfortunately the thread hasn't moved fast enough to really tell if Vivit was just not pushing the Urist wagon because they wanted the lynch to stagnate on Salamander, as what exactly they read would be a bit hazy for anyone after a couple of days.

We could really do with Komodo and Salamander posting again. I imagine that at the very least Salamander would be willing to vote for Vivit, so this lynch could still happen.

[skitter30]

VOTE COUNT 1.10

salamander (4)

- xwing, vivit, munchmellow, nauci

vivit (2)

- pvturist, rosterfoster

flavor leaf (1)

- komodo

pvturist (1)

- salamander

rosterfoster (1)

- flavor leaf

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-12-31 23:00:00)

mod notes:

- xwing is vla on weekends
-

[Komodo]

Oh my god I'm so so so sorry. I hit a really bad slump and kinda forgot about the game (even tho I leave the tab open at all times )

I'm here now and am going to read back and shit. Please forgive me! I'll make sure this won't happen again.

[xwing]

I do find it odd for vivit to latch on to my scum read of Pvt without considering the follow up, but I'm not sure if that's something scum would do since it's kinda sloppy

for me this is one of the scummiest things done by vivit..
town usually read through everything and update reads based on new info, but vivit seems to just be attacking Pvt because nauci did..
vivit backtracked as soon as it was pointed out that nauci townreads Pvt..

[Munchmellow]

@Xwing, what do you think - are you still for lynching Salamander or do you think that Vivit is more suspicious?

[Munchmellow]

@Komodo, nice to see you are back. Could you give us your readlist?

[xwing]

Vivit, I follow your train of thought because that was the reaction I first had. Everything he post was so superficially based that it must have been out of trying hard to appear to be scum hunting instead of actually doing so.

And those sentiments still hold (strongly, even), but idk if newer scum could have held up like he did under the amount of scrutiny I put him through, while re-evaluating some of his reads.

echoing nauci's sentiment here..
im not sure how to sort Pvt at this point..
and though i see how vivit can be scum, the slot's also having flashes of townieness, like the above train of thought..
im not comfortable sheeping nauci based on "not crumbling in real time" as a town read..for all we know pvt is already experienced enough not to crumble under pressure..the scum read on nauci slot based on nauci's early posts seems forced to me..

salamander not being active is very sad/disappointing..
do we lynch this slot or wait for a replacement? it's almost deadline and im just afraid not to see a claim before lynch since it seems the slot has flaked?

im okay to lynch the ff, in order: {salamander, pvt/vivit [cant decide which one first], flavor}

@flavor, im a bit disappointed with your catch up, i guess i expected more meat instead of some wagon/VCA stuff..i mean i respect that VCA can be a tool, but i'd rather know what do you think are our alignments and why based on our play so far..

@komodo: hello belated birthday boy! will wait for your catch up post..

pedit: @munch im okay to switch to vivit if push comes to shove..

[Komodo]

I've been getting scum reads on Jim all game, and with Salamander's more recent posts my suspicions of him have weakened a bit; his posts seem more scrubby than scummy (though that could be exactly what he wants us to think, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now).

VOTE: Jim Hawkins should explain himself or walk the plank.

should explain himself

What do you want him to explain

Okay so like, I could honestly see scum!vivit here. I could see a scum slip of someone just blindly following a wagon while adding a "reason", even if the reason doesn't make sense. Yeah, she expanded on it in the next post, but that's some suspicious wording...

That being said

im not comfortable sheeping nauci based on "not crumbling in real time" as a town read..for all we know pvt is already experienced enough not to crumble under pressure..the scum read on nauci slot based on nauci's early posts seems forced to me..

I want to second this as well. Even if she was town, I don't think a pure noob could do everything she did. Regardless if this is her first game here or not, you have to give some appreciation to her skill and not use her skill to justify a read.

@Komodo, nice to see you are back. Could you give us your readlist?

Absolutely!

Flavor Leaf: Null scum. Almost everything he says feels like a response to someone else that doesn't move the game forward. Not to mention that he has 44 posts by now. That doesn't look good for him.
Munchmellow: I get a strong town read here. First off, everything you've said flows together in a stream of thought and comes with mostly solid reasons.
Nauci: Pretty town. She's dropped from my top town read but still up there.
Roster/Xwing: Both rather town.
Sal/Pvt/Vivit: Null scum/scum/scum.


I'll expand more tomorrow. I didn't realize how long this post would take to type and I need to get ready. I have a hot date tonight

[Nauci]

UNVOTE: until I have time to finish reading the day

I can't even explain how much loathing I have for not being around when lynches are hammered as of late

I'll be back in a few hours

[xwing]

That being said

im not comfortable sheeping nauci based on "not crumbling in real time" as a town read..for all we know pvt is already experienced enough not to crumble under pressure..the scum read on nauci slot based on nauci's early posts seems forced to me..

I want to second this as well. Even if she was town, I don't think a pure noob could do everything she did. Regardless if this is her first game here or not, you have to give some appreciation to her skill and not use her skill to justify a read.

sorry komodo, i didnt get what you mean here? are you talking about nauci or pvt? i try to use the player name/nickname to make it less confusing, especially if we get our pronouns switched..

just to be clear, what i meant was that im not agreeing with nauci when she gave a town read on pvt because of how pvt responded in real time..and that pvt's scum read of nauci seems forced..sooo im fine with nauci town, but still suspicious of pvt slot..

PS: good luck with your hot date

as a side note, deadline is really looming, gotta decide soon who to lynch..so maybe knowing who everybody's okay to lynch for today would be good..

[skitter30]

flavor leaf has recieved his first prod

[vivit]

I do find it odd for vivit to latch on to my scum read of Pvt without considering the follow up, but I'm not sure if that's something scum would do since it's kinda sloppy

for me this is one of the scummiest things done by vivit..

I agree that I should have addressed Nauci's final town read in my post. Part of it was laziness; I had already written a relatively long post (266), left it lying in the reply form for a while, then got ninja'd and didn't want to go back and edit it. Consider that a scum tell if you want, but I think it's just me being bad at forum posting.

Another thing to note:
Nauci's initial (scum) read of PvtUrist was based on his scumhunting posts.
Nauci's final (town) read of PvtUrist was based on live interaction with PvtUrist.
Nauci's conclusion that PvtUrist was interacting with her too authentically and responsively to be scum don't invalidate her initial observations about the tone and content of PvtUrist's posts, especially not since her final town read of PvtUrist was based on something that (it seems like) only she would have been able to pick up on directly, since only she and PvtUrist were involved in that discussion.

town usually read through everything and update reads based on new info, but vivit seems to just be attacking Pvt because nauci did..

I was one of the people most heavily accused by Pvt in his initial cascade of scumhunting, particularly in 223. A lot of his logic was faulty and I was pretty heavily misrepped, so I was pretty eager to point out the bullshit in his arguments. With that in mind, I don't think it's reasonable to say that I was only attacking Pvt because Nauci was. And I get that every post seems scummy when it targets you, but damn, those were some really scummy posts by Pvt (I've already gone into why in my initial counteraccusations as well as in 289 -- I'd rather not repeat myself or repeat Nauci).

vivit backtracked as soon as it was pointed out that nauci townreads Pvt..

At no point did I backpedal on any of my statements; I just conceded that Nauci had read PvtUrist as town and that I was going to respect and consider her reads (since she's an experienced player).

No matter how much I respect Nauci's reads, I'm still really uncomfortable reading PvtUrist as anything but scum based on his initial posts. The actual content of the posts he made in his live conversation with Nauci don't seem much better than the first posts he made. I want to trust Nauci's judgment, but I'm really conflicted on this.

[Flavor Leaf]

@IC Flavor Leaf

, in situations like this this one, is it usually better for town to policy lynch than no lynch? I'm feeling the general consensus is that no lynch is bad for town, but I'm not sure completely why.

I give the intend to hammer before the deadline if nothing changes, but I would still prefer a vivit lynch.

I wouldn’t call it Policy lynching, it’s just more of a compromise lynch. Lynching someone who we can get a flip on, even if we don’t necessarily think they’re scum, but doing it for future reads.
I would rather a lynch go through.

Sorry, guy. I got really busy unexpectedly the last couple days.

I should be here a lot now, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Has Salamander claimed? I’m willing to jump on if we need more people. Salamander’s not a town read of mine, and I’d rather a flip than a no flip.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would also like to hear more from Komodo, he also didn't give any readings yet.

And also @Flavor - why did you vote for Roster. I am asking, because I didn't think he said anything scummy. I also would like to hear your readings, becuse you don't say much, except that Nauci reads town.

I didn’t like his response and his misrepping of me when I pushed the NAI sheeping onto Nauci because of the pull that Nauci has this game, yet was pushing it like I was giving Nauci a pass.

He could have misunderstood, but he could have done that as scum, and the way he hopped onto that discussion was off to me.

[xwing]

@flavor, what do you think of pvturist and vivit?
what are your reads again?

im not feeling too great now on the salamander lynch, seems too easy now..
but i do agree we need to lynch instead of no lynching..

[Flavor Leaf]

They are my town reads, along with you and Nauci.

Roster is a weak scum read of mine, but it’s pretty shallow on my part.

Munch, Komodo, and salamander I’m more on the side of scummy than town, but pretty close to bull on each of those.

Munch has some things I like, somethings that I think could be scum just doing it, but it’s enough for me to be okay not going there today. I’m actually solid with a Salamander lynch, to be honest.

[Flavor Leaf]

I generally am near the money on my one lean scum, and then I have one scum within my town reads. Day 1 in newbies I like to take it as a “these guys look town” kind of deal, and see which one ends up coming off like they are projecting town rather than just living it.

[skitter30]

salamander has failed to pick up his prod, and is being replaced

the deadline timer is paused until a replacement is found; the new deadline will be 48 hours after we get a replacement

[xwing]

interesting take on roster as scum lean..
could you elaborate on each of your reads (why they're scum or town)?
you can skip roster and munch, you've already touched a bit on those slots..

also, since salamander is being replaced, might be polite of us to wait for the replacement to have their say before we hammer..also would be wise to let the slot claim first too if we intend to proceed..

[skitter30]

nikk replaces salamander, please welcome them!

deadline is 48 hours from now: (expired on 2019-01-01 21:24:00)

[Nikk]

Hey! Just reading back quickly!

Counteraccusing someone for making a wild read on day 1 seems a little suspicious, that's all.

Is that what happened? Is it? Reads to me like he freaked out about being voted for a silly reason. Noob can be either scum or town, which was asked of you a post above this and I don't think you ever addressed.

hi all..

so after catching up, im inclined to believe that rosterfoster is town..
i feel like most of salamander's attack on roster was very weak sauce, whereas roster feels more natural..
VOTE: salamander

@mod: i might not be able to post over the holidays as well, be back on the 27th..
advanced merry Christmas everyone!!

Oh! Hi x-wing!

@Komodo, just curious, why did you follow Nauci here?

Roster reads town to me, so does xwing.
After last few posts I'm also gonna go town for vivit.
Not so sure about Nauci - could be either.
Null read for Komodo.
Based on his few posts, it would be fair not to decide about Jim. But he reads more scum than town to me.
Flover Leaf is really hard to read for me. He seems townie but could easily be scum, specially with his experience.
So, VOTE: Flavor Leaf and see where that brings us.

Gee golly why did you vote for x

I think I too shall vote for x

What?!

I'm pretty satisfied that your slot is probably-town.

For the record, this is because I'm fairly certain that almost no scum would be capable of both real-time defense without being too nervous/crumbling, and simultaneously making minute read updates like in 239 on vivit's post. It'd be an awful lot of faking to juggle at once. Plus, this is probably town-tunneling.

I disagree with this assessment.

I don't like that he hasn't posted anything, after we basically got to intent to hammer phase (with him on the chopping block of course).
I don't like, how he didn't specify his readings on anyone (just said Nauci feels town and that he didn't like Jim lurking). I don't know, it could be newbie scum, too afraid to say anything meaningful, or it could just be, that he didn't post much in general. But he should definitely react on his L-1.

VOTE: Salamander
I really wouldn't want to lynch someone based on his inactivity, but it's really hard to read someone as town or scum, based on so few posts, so even if he is town, he is confusing us more than anything else... I think with so little time left we should go to intent to hammer and let him claim if there is anything to claim.

So I can assume now that I am here you will remove your vote, yes?

@Xwing, what do you think - are you still for lynching Salamander or do you think that Vivit is more suspicious?

Or would you rather try to pull others to the easy mislynch?

[Nikk]

Also, for housekeeping in case his vote was on someone

UNVOTE: